The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[method man]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He stuck by Ron for a bit, then the Rhule experiment failed gloriously, now they have Frank Reich which is a nice hire. What's the GM situation like with them?

 

Fitterer is their GM. I give him credit for building up a good defense. The run the ball/play strong D philosophy did nearly get them into the playoffs

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Fitterer is their GM. I give him credit for building up a good defense. The run the ball/play strong D philosophy did nearly get them into the playoffs

While Tepper said he would seek to establish a “better balance” between the next coach and GM in terms of personnel, current and former colleagues say one of Fitterer’s strengths is his willingness to listen and collaborate without having to come across as the biggest personality or loudest guy in the room.

“I think that’s what makes Scott good. He’s got a great personality. He’s never rattled. He’s always poised and in control. And he has that approach where he’s always trying to learn,” said Panthers assistant general manager Dan Morgan, one of Fitterer’s closest friends who worked alongside him in Seattle.

 

https://theathletic.com/3984197/2022/12/09/panthers-gm-scott-fitterer-seahawks/

 

Seems like it's a good set up for the Panthers now. Who knows yet.

[Skinsinparadise]

Tepper hasn't been an owner previously.  Harris has-is.  I think its apples and oranges.

 

I know from interviews, Tepper is obsessed with this being a QB driven league and would move mountains to get his guy -- clearly he made that move, will see if it works.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/gm-report/tepper-believes-young-gave-carolina-the-highest-probability-of-winning-super-bowls

 

Tepper was involved in the decision-making process but mainly from an analytical perspective. He let the football guys do the football work while he assisted by running through all sorts of numbers and data to help back the pick. Why does he feel so confident that Bryce Young can deliver Super Bowls to Carolina? 

He explains.

"Well, when we went through the process of quarterbacks, as you guys know it was a very deep process with the head coach. We found what we believe is the best head coach that we could find and then set the head coach free to find the best staff he could find. So that was what we did. Going through the process of these quarterbacks, one of the questions we asked ourselves was which one of these guys can take us there (Super Bowl). What’s the probability that this guy can take us there? It was no sure thing. Not to talk about all the other guys, but this guy had the highest probability of winning Super Bowls. I speak for myself, and not to speak for Frank but I think Scott feels the same way, you want to win Super Bowls.

 

There’s no sure thing here, but it was probability. We thought this guy has the best probability of winning us Super Bowls. The way he throws the ball, the way he’s a point guard, how you can use the different players on the field, how you might not have to have as many elite receivers because he’s the point guard, right? So he distributes the ball to people with routes. So we can save some money there, we can save money in other places and put that money on the defensive side of the ball. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Tepper hasn't been an owner previously.  Harris has-is.  I think its apples and oranges.

 

I know from interviews, Tepper is obsessed with this being a QB driven league and would move mountains to get his guy -- clearly he made that move, will see if it works.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/gm-report/tepper-believes-young-gave-carolina-the-highest-probability-of-winning-super-bowls

 

Tepper was involved in the decision-making process but mainly from an analytical perspective. He let the football guys do the football work while he assisted by running through all sorts of numbers and data to help back the pick. Why does he feel so confident that Bryce Young can deliver Super Bowls to Carolina? 

He explains.

"Well, when we went through the process of quarterbacks, as you guys know it was a very deep process with the head coach. We found what we believe is the best head coach that we could find and then set the head coach free to find the best staff he could find. So that was what we did. Going through the process of these quarterbacks, one of the questions we asked ourselves was which one of these guys can take us there (Super Bowl). What’s the probability that this guy can take us there? It was no sure thing. Not to talk about all the other guys, but this guy had the highest probability of winning Super Bowls. I speak for myself, and not to speak for Frank but I think Scott feels the same way, you want to win Super Bowls.

 

There’s no sure thing here, but it was probability. We thought this guy has the best probability of winning us Super Bowls. The way he throws the ball, the way he’s a point guard, how you can use the different players on the field, how you might not have to have as many elite receivers because he’s the point guard, right? So he distributes the ball to people with routes. So we can save some money there, we can save money in other places and put that money on the defensive side of the ball. 

 

He took some time to ultimately pivot his philosophy. He wouldn't have settled for washed up Cam Newton, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield and PJ Walker if that were his philosophy from the get go. I wonder where Harris lands

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

 

He took some time to ultimately pivot his philosophy. He wouldn't have settled for washed up Cam Newton, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield and PJ Walker if that were his philosophy from the get go. I wonder where Harris lands

 

I've read articles about Tepper over the years that referenced the point.

 

Just because you want a franchise QB doesn't mean you get one.  I bet Ron wants one, too. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 I listened to most of this.  They watched some all 22.

 

Basically they love Dotson-Terry.  And like Robinson.  Likes the defense.

 

QB is an unknown.  They were underwhelmed by the O line -- they said in particular the Giants game they watched, it was obvious that this O line was overwhelmed by the Giants D line. And they don't feel like they fixed the problem in the off season, which surprises them. 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

I like Forbes but it would have been great to get a talented young OL. It'd really raise the ceiling of the group.

 

Feels like the best we can do is hope for average OL play.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Warhead36

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I like Forbes but it would have been great to get a talented young OL. It'd really raise the ceiling of the group.

 

Feels like the best we can do is hope for average OL play.

I think the Forbes pick was a good one. We got maybe the best/2nd best CB which was a need, instead of reaching on a left tackle.

 

The second round, and I do like Quan a lot, is where I think started to **** the draft up. 

[wit33]

On 5/18/2023 at 4:06 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wow if so.  Logan Paulsen, like me and many others, loved his college tape  but said he hasn't heard the best things about his work ethic.  Russell hs said he's heard a number of stories about Chase, outside the field, that he said he knows this team is concerned about.

That’s brutal, wasn’t aware he was an issue off the field. I can careless about weed, what other things did he share they’re concerned about?

 

So strange, he seems like a locked in dude from my seat as a fan. 😕 

 

On 5/18/2023 at 4:38 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe then its Sweat.  The point isn't about Chase in a vacuum.  It's just judging by what some beat guys said if they had to lose one of the four right now, they believe Chase would be the one they'd most likely let go -- and some of that reason has nothing to do with on the field performance.

 

I know some here think it doesn't matter to pay 90 million or so to one unit.   A great player is a great player and who cares if money is slanted big time at one spot ultinmately at the expense of other spots?  I get the mindset but its far from no brainer territory.  Plenty think its a bit crazy -- heck the PFF cap guy thinks it would be absolutely nuts to dedicate such a lopsided number in today's NFL to that unit and would ridicule them if they did.   They aren't alone on that. 

 

Doesn't matter that some cap geek types think its silly for them to do it.  I am getting the sense that some in the FO don't love the idea either or understand its unconventional and are mulling about playing that card versus not or at a minimum would consider doing what SF did. 

 

So, the idea that they would SF style trade one of their assets on that unit versus paying big money for four D lineman at a minimum I gather is a thought process with this FO.   So for all those ruling it out.  My impression

 

 

Paying 4 is a stretch, but not opposed to it if say Washington becomes an elite Dline unit and defense overall. Obviously this must be paired with a Howell type contract and go all during the QB rookie contract. Stagger the deals to gain another 2 year window or something the group. The Niners model dedicates a great deal of cap allocation to the Dline year in and out. 
 

I like idea of going all in hopes to unlock elite levels of play. Believe this can be achieved with 3 of 4 as well. 
 

Completely understand keeping all four is less than a 10% chance or whatever… not likely.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I like Forbes but it would have been great to get a talented young OL. It'd really raise the ceiling of the group.

 

Feels like the best we can do is hope for average OL play.

 

What do you feel is the difference between an average Oline and the 7th best Oline?

 

Full disclosure, I’m seeking competency at Oline and feel Olineman are huge injury risks forcing teams to be 7 or 8 deep at the position to survive, especially if said team has an average/competent QB starter. 

[Warhead36]

There is nothing of substance to the Young BS rumors. It's literally only Chris Russell saying things subtlely like "I know things about Young you don't know" but he doesn't actually come out and say/report anything because its just random garbage.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

That’s brutal, wasn’t aware he was an issue off the field. I can careless about weed, what other things did he share they’re concerned about?

 

So strange, he seems like a locked in dude from my seat as a fan. 😕 

 

 

I am surprised too.  But I try to keep an open mind on something if the facts contradict some of my previous thoughts. nd I've heard enough that there are some questions about Chase off the field.

 

Logan Paulsen said he heard that they have issues with Chase's work ethic -- specifically to the off season.   Paulsen also referenced something also relating to Chase in a segment during the season -- forgetting the what and how but I do recall posting about it back then.

 

Chris Russell in multiple segments has said he's heard many stories relating to Chase behind the scenes and he believes that more so than the injury is holding back them extending his contract -- he didn't say what they were, which he does from time to time but then ultimately spills.  I gather his source told him to keep his mouth shot.  There is a another reporter, too forgetting which one who also suggested this team has had issues with Chase behind the scenes on multiple things.  Also referencing maturity.   It came up in reference to whether he'd get a contract.

 

 

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Paying 4 is a stretch, but not opposed to it if say Washington becomes an elite Dline unit and defense overall. Obviously this must be paired with a Howell type contract and go all during the QB rookie contract. Stagger the deals to gain another 2 year window or something the group. The Niners model dedicates a great deal of cap allocation to the Dline year in and out. 

 

The Niners model would involve paying 3 not 4 D lineman unless there is something I am missing.

 

But again, its not so much about what we think.  I got the vibe from those who cover the team that this FO does get that paying 4 D lineman big money might be too much for that one spot.  But will see.

 

We also got Rivera mentioning maturity on and off for the last two seasons -- and its pretty clear they way he said it he's referencing Chase. 

 

https://www.audacy.com/theteam980/sports/washington-commanders/sheehan-ron-rivera-maturity-chase-young-fifth-year-option

Rivera mentioning Payne "did things the right way" and talking about Young's "development and growth" signaled to Sheehan that the team believes Young has maturity issues and they "just aren't sure he does things the right way."

"When he talks about development and growth, he's talking about maturity,"

 

Finlay

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/truth-about-intensified-pressure-chase-young-and-ron-rivera

Digging deeper, however, and Rivera has been making veiled criticism of Young for some time, particularly on the matter of maturity.

 

 

Standig

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've read articles about Tepper over the years that referenced the point.

 

Just because you want a franchise QB doesn't mean you get one.  I bet Ron wants one, too. 

 

They were one of the teams in the hunt for Watson last year. They had the ability to make the same trade the Browns did and apparently what it came down to was the Panthers not willing to make the type of guarantees the Browns did. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, method man said:

 

They were one of the teams in the hunt for Watson last year. They had the ability to make the same trade the Browns did and apparently what it came down to was the Panthers not willing to make the type of guarantees the Browns did. 

 

OK, not sure what the point is?  I gather your point is Tepper just got to this thought recently or something else?.  I know I read an article about it years back and it stuck with me, I recall even writing about it at the time.  

 

Edit:  rereading your post, I gather its that Tepper was hot for a QB?  lol, either way, I do think there is a good shot Harris might see things the same way as for the need for a franchise Qb if Howell doesn't end up the goods.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Edit:  rereading your post, I gather its that Tepper was hot for a QB?  lol, either way, I do think there is a good shot Harris might see things the same way as for the need for a franchise Qb if Howell doesn't end up the goods.

Franchise QB, stud LT

[Skinsinparadise]

Will see but I am betting this is part 2 of heck imagine if we had an O line?

 

 

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Will see but I am betting this is part 2 of heck imagine if we had an O line?

 

 

I watched that last night on YouTube. Martz liked the improvement he saw in Howells footwork and his ability to get the ball out quick once he made a decision.

 

He said improving decision making would be huge for Howell but thought he was coachable in that respect. Loved the physical tools. 
 

His question is can he make the reads needed against zone in particular. Not saying he can’t be he’s not seen him asked to do it on tape in College or against the Cowboys.

[method man]

23 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, not sure what the point is?  I gather your point is Tepper just got to this thought recently or something else?.  I know I read an article about it years back and it stuck with me, I recall even writing about it at the time.  

 

Edit:  rereading your post, I gather its that Tepper was hot for a QB?  lol, either way, I do think there is a good shot Harris might see things the same way as for the need for a franchise Qb if Howell doesn't end up the goods.

 

 

 

Yep. My point was that whatever Tepper may have said, this offseason felt like the first offseason Tepper was truly all in on making that big QB splash. I pointed out the passing on Watson but remember they passed on Fields for Jaycee Horn in 2021 (they could've made the trade SF did) and, in 2020, they could have traded up two picks to take Tua or one pick up to take Herbert instead of Brown.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, method man said:

 

Yep. My point was that whatever Tepper may have said, this offseason felt like the first offseason Tepper was truly all in on making that big QB splash. I pointed out the passing on Watson but remember they passed on Fields for Jaycee Horn in 2021 (they could've made the trade SF did) and, in 2020, they could have traded up two picks to take Tua or one pick up to take Herbert instead of Brown.

 

I think being on Watson shows he was in on it.  If he went all in guaranteed money it takes on a lot of risk with Watson specifically considering circumstance.  I recall they were also heavily in the mix for Stafford.  I don't think think that's evidence that they just woke up on the point recently about the value of a QB just because they didn't land that ship and in turn didn't chase every QB available -- who chases everyone?

 

Who knows if they loved Fields?  Not everyone did.  Other teams passed on Fields too.  Or Tua coming off of that injury.  And as we talk about here, its not as if every team you want to trade up or down you can.  This team supposedly loved Fields but didn't like what was asked to trade up.   They overpaid for a young QB in Sam Darnold and were heralded as genuses by most of the national media at the time of the trade -- it burned them. 

 

He's an equity guy.  If he wants a stock, its not typically I am in no matter what the stock or what the price.  But they wait until they get what they want at a price that isn't prohibitve.   I know a little about Tepper on that front, he's one of the stock pickers I follow.   And that's before delving in to whether he's the type to override the FO people who make those calls -- I don't know if he's a Dan Snyder type on that front.   He might just let his guys like most owners do -- do their job without interference. 

 

Heck part of the reason why Keim has said that Hurney was a self proclaimed QB guy was he apparently wanted Herbert but he was taken before his pick -- a point I talked about on and off for years here.  Obviously, they thought he'd fall.  Not every team Bears style gets nervous and trades up the farm to go up a pick.  And sometimes that works and sometimes you get burned.

 

Feels like Tepper finally had enough and went for it uber aggressively, damn the price or his FO felt that way. 

 

Rivera flat out said QB is the reason why this team isn't as good as other teams in the division and has referenced this being a QB league multiple times. Like Tepper, he's swung and missed including with major capital trades.  And he's swung and hit and made a stupid trade like Tepper did. 

 

I gather he wants a spanking young franchise QB as much as Tepper.  The fact that he doesn't have one I don't speaks to his desire for one but speaks to there is a limit to how much he will pay for one without sacrificing the rest of the roster but he's still on the aggressive side.  3 first rounders for Russell Wilson.  But I suspect like Tepper, his swings and misses among other things might lead to a breaking point where its damn the price, lets do it. 

 

I doubt Rivera will be here to play out his breaking point if that comes. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, MartinC said:

I watched that last night on YouTube. Martz liked the improvement he saw in Howells footwork and his ability to get the ball out quick once he made a decision.

 

He said improving decision making would be huge for Howell but thought he was coachable in that respect. Loved the physical tools. 
 

His question is can he make the reads needed against zone in particular. Not saying he can’t be he’s not seen him asked to do it on tape in College or against the Cowboys.

 

I watched it too.  I'd add he likes his ability to make off platform throws. Throws with velocity and touch and accuracy.

 

Yeah as to the reads, he wasn't sure in college that he was about progression-reads to the extent why he wonders how that translates in the NFL.   And as he showed in two examples he predetermines throws at times and defenses can exploit that.

[wit33]

On 5/21/2023 at 4:42 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched it too.  I'd add he likes his ability to make off platform throws. Throws with velocity and touch and accuracy.

 

Yeah as to the reads, he wasn't sure in college that he was about progression-reads to the extent why he wonders how that translates in the NFL.   And as he showed in two examples he predetermines throws at times and defenses can exploit that.

From my laymen view it’s always seemed Reid has simplified the game for his QB and aligns the system in some ways to what the QB is comfortable in doing. For example, Mahomes seemed below average (whatever that means) early in his career in reading the field, but many of his throws appeared to be high low/1-2 type reads with freedom to get to reads 3 or 4 through manipulating the pocket. Hoping EB can consistently scheme 8-10 gimmie completions like we see with Chiefs and other offenses (layups and threes). 
 

No matter the coaching staff, there’s always been a great resistance with THEIR system and the QB needing to figure it out. Reverse engineer the problem and build up the QB while leaving crumbs for the QB to eat along the way. Not at all saying this hasn’t happened in the at but more so, “we have to” approach versus we get to attack with this QBs strengths and build up. Hoping EB provides a bit of new school from the standpoint of creating the offense around the QB with goal to make it easier (or achieve a flow state). 
 

Not at allaying to abandon offensive principles but how can we pursue it creatively. For example, how will Howells run abilities be maximized in goal to go or short yardage situations. If I go anymore I’ll trend to ignorance territory, but must be creative and innovative when attempting to maximize the young QB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[FootballZombie]

Couldn't let our XFL O-lineman feel lonely.

 

Camp-body is a camp-body I guess. It does not matter where they come from.

[MrJL]

we're giving him a second chance, he was on the roster last year

[markmills67]

Dalton Risner still out there for some reason, surprised we've not taken a look at him.

[method man]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

Dalton Risner still out there for some reason, surprised we've not taken a look at him.

They may have and decided he is not a fit. Andy/EB value athletic guards for their scheme and Risner is not that. Risner is more like a rich man’s Norwell…a strong guy who doesn’t move well laterally. For all the question marks, Paul, Cosmi, Charles and Daniels are all very athletic guards

 

 I’m more interested in Jason Peters for a number of reasons and, given Castillo’s relationship with him, having coached him in Philly and Chicago, they could potentially land him. However, doubt he signs with a team until toward the end of camp