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Next Day Thread: Falcons Fall Flat


KDawg
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4 hours ago, Zim489 said:

He was consistently being doubled and often triple teamed. Even playing as the 3T. Those are the times Payne needs to be absolutely dominate. If you get a 1v1 as a 1 or 0 you need to drive the IOL into the QB near immediately on every play. 

 

Payne is pretty good in those situations. Needs to be better. I want my NT taking every single double team. 

 

Good thing he's not just a NT. Given his athletic talent, we don't want him taking every single double team. It's a difference in assignments and role per play. Are you supposed to 2 gap, 1 gap, or shoot the gap? What's your job at the snap, is it to read/react and control the gap(s) in front of you? Or is it to get into the backfield? Down/distance, score, clock, run/pass tendencies. That will help dictate the role per play.

 

I don't think your expectation for what a IDL should do on every play is reasonable.

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Two quick things on Heinicke after watching some highlights: 

1. on the interception, he had Gibson underneath wide open who would probably get to the 35 fairly easily if he doesn’t make a guy miss.

 

2.  On the drive that stalled before Atlanta’s final drive he hits Gibson who slips on the wet field.  If he keeps his feet, he has a fighting chance at picking up the first down.

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32 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Two quick things on Heinicke after watching some highlights: 

1. on the interception, he had Gibson underneath wide open who would probably get to the 35 fairly easily if he doesn’t make a guy miss.

 

2.  On the drive that stalled before Atlanta’s final drive he hits Gibson who slips on the wet field.  If he keeps his feet, he has a fighting chance at picking up the first down.

 

I think the IINT wasn't as easy as people claim.  Walker  jumped at least some and reached over his head.  If it was a Commander who caught a ball like that in that position no one would have been calling it an easy grab, they'd probably have called it one of Heinicke's death balls

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20 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

I think the IINT wasn't as easy as people claim.  Walker  jumped at least some and reached over his head.  If it was a Commander who caught a ball like that in that position no one would have been calling it an easy grab, they'd probably have called it one of Heinicke's death balls

He lofted the ball to 3 Falcons with none of our guys around at all.

 

That hat better be a joke.

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1 hour ago, RansomthePasserby said:

It may have been a one off gift for publicity/marketing. Pretty sure I heard somewhere BRob’s friend owns the company.

Yeah, I see a customization box (Full Custom) that you can upload a non copyright image for an extra $50 ($125 total) Yikes!

 

 

Reactions from Around The Horn

 

 

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1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

He lofted the ball to 3 Falcons with none of our guys around at all.

 

 

Actually there were two. Terry and Jahan. That throw was to Jahan. Taylor stared him down and the DB was watching Taylor's eyes. Jumped up and grabbed the ball. The ball wasn't thrown higher and over the DB so hence the INT. With 22 seconds left Taylor was going deeper to get the ball to more manageable kick and to go up by 3 before the half ended. Bad throw indeed when he had two guys underneath who could have easily gotten the ball to where he was throwing anyway and we still had 3 timeouts left too.

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6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

He lofted the ball to 3 Falcons with none of our guys around at all.

 

That hat better be a joke.

 

Watch the replay, look behind Walker.  Walker catches the ball at about the 32 and look who is behind him at around the 27 or 28,  Jahan Dotson is crossing from the center of the field towards the sideline and should easily get the ball without the INT

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20 hours ago, KDawg said:

Bostic was meh. Gets caught flat footed too often.

Our ends get too vertical up field at times opening vertical lanes and our perimeter run support isn't the best.

These are two familiar issues. This killed us last year. Thank goodness the rest of the d is playing at such a high level. Hoping the staff is pushing the ends to stop going so vertical.

20 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The run threat of Mariota makes a big difference. You noticed a few times where he'd hand it off, guys would freeze because when Mariota kept it he was a guaranteed 10 yards. Offenses like that are hard to stop. Also their OL is legitimately very good in run blocking(but not great in pass protection).

 

I'm a bit worried because the Giants can replicate a similar strategy with Daniel Jones who is also a very good running QB and obviously Barkley is a stud. Not sure if their OL is really of the same caliber though. 

Agreed with the Jones/Barkley combo being a concern, Jones is a tough runner and must be contained

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1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

These are two familiar issues. This killed us last year. Thank goodness the rest of the d is playing at such a high level. Hoping the staff is pushing the ends to stop going so vertical.

Agreed with the Jones/Barkley combo being a concern, Jones is a tough runner and must be contained

 

Last year was a little different. The ends were getting too vertical, but they were running there purposely trying to get into the backfield, even on run plays. It was like they were getting bad reads. Then they'd loop behind the ball carrier/QB as the OT shielded the pocket and guided them there. And they went. They didn't redirect. Sweat actually showed Sunday he has learned a bit and once he got deep into the backfield he trailed back and made an inside move and picked up a sack because of Toohill's contain awareness.

 

So they do it at times. And do it well.

 

One play in particular stands out RE: my original post. JSW was bull rushing. He drove the OT straight back about 7 yards. Our DT to that side was doubled and stonewalled. Not giving space but not getting space. The back cut right inside the vertical B and got to the perimeter, where we at times struggle to defend and got a bunch of yards because of the lack of vertical gap discipline. Our backer to that side got caved off the double on the DT (I believe it was Bostic) because he didn't make his read fast enough. 

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7 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

I think the IINT wasn't as easy as people claim.  Walker  jumped at least some and reached over his head.  If it was a Commander who caught a ball like that in that position no one would have been calling it an easy grab, they'd probably have called it one of Heinicke's death balls

This is why it’s real hard to take folks serious about Heinicke.

 

We can argue all day about moxie, whether guys are playing for him or not, all the stuff that can’t actually be quantified and proven.

 

But dude can just heave one into three defenders for no reason and we get a response that the “int wasn’t easy”.  Bottom line, it was an absolutely atrocious decision and throw.  Yet some feel the need to find a way to argue it’s not that bad or whatever.  So wierd.

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2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is why it’s real hard to take folks serious about Heinicke.

 

We can argue all day about moxie, whether guys are playing for him or not, all the stuff that can’t actually be quantified and proven.

 

But dude can just heave one into three defenders for no reason and we get a response that the “int wasn’t easy”.  Bottom line, it was an absolutely atrocious decision and throw.  Yet some feel the need to find a way to argue it’s not that bad or whatever.  So wierd.

 

and I feel the same way about you arguing it was that bad

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10 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

and I feel the same way about you arguing it was that bad

 

There is a reason that you are on an island with like one or two other people in the entire world defending throws like that.

 

I see my fair share of homer talk on social media, much of it very pro Heinicke.  You are the first I’ve seen to have the audacity to pretend it wasn’t an egregious decision and throw.

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2 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

and I feel the same way about you arguing it was that bad

I mean, it was a terrible decision and ball. I get defending Heinicke based on how the team plays when he is at the quarterback position, but people need to understand that Heinicke makes a lot of questionable decisions. Sometimes that results in miracle plays (Samuels against Minnesota, any time he lofts it to McLaurin and he makes a miraculous snag). Sometimes it results in ugly turnovers.

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2 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

and I feel the same way about you arguing it was that bad

 

2 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

Watch the replay, look behind Walker.  Walker catches the ball at about the 32 and look who is behind him at around the 27 or 28,  Jahan Dotson is crossing from the center of the field towards the sideline and should easily get the ball without the INT

Defending this play is ****ing clown shoes.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Defending this play is ****ing clown shoes.

 

 

 

I can tell you WHY Heinicke made the decision.

 

He thought his arm strength was better than it is and he was going to put it over the top of 54 and 3 but he underthrew it into a triple coverage situation with two trails and one over.

 

It was a bad decision to throw to triple, over belief in his arm strength.

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6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I can tell you WHY Heinicke made the decision.

 

He thought his arm strength was better than it is and he was going to put it over the top of 54 and 3 but he underthrew it into a triple coverage situation with two trails and one over.

 

It was a bad decision to throw to triple, over belief in his arm strength.

Walker had to jump so I don't  believe that would qualify as an underthrow though I guess a guy with a stronger arm might have gotten it through there by throwing it faster so Walker wouldn't  have had the time to jum

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Just now, MrJL said:

Walker had to jump so I don't  believe that would qualify as an underthrow though I guess a guy with a stronger arm might have gotten it through there by throwing it faster so Walker wouldn't  have had the time to jum

It is an underthrow.

 

Him having to jump doesn't have anything to do with it. The ball was in his wing span. It should have been over his head and deeper.

 

It was a bad read and a bad throw.

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I can tell you WHY Heinicke made the decision.

 

He thought his arm strength was better than it is and he was going to put it over the top of 54 and 3 but he underthrew it into a triple coverage situation with two trails and one over.

 

It was a bad decision to throw to triple, over belief in his arm strength.

 

Agreed it was a bad throw (arm strength). The timing was there if you look at where Jahan is and where the ball is. If the ball was a little higher it goes over the defender's head and right into Jahan's hands, possible or at worst an incompletion. The other two defenders are not as close and plenty of space between Jahan and them. Taylor had the right idea but the execution wasn't there. So yeah it was definitely a very bad throw. As for the decision he had two guys wide open underneath who could have gotten them more possible yards instead.

 

JAHAN.thumb.png.b30fc6f632aed9bd8dd5bd81f1ff70d1.png

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