Game Day Thread - Washington at Indy ~ Jim Irsay The People's Champ Edition

[zCommander]

3 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

😀 I'll put you in the emoji-sensitive protocol.

 

Amigo, you are so mental over this topic that if I wasn't retired I'd feel obliged to commit you to an isolation ward like the fantasy forum 😈 

 

 

 

I just turned 52 this past Thursday. Being mental is in the handbook. 😛

 

But, seriously, if we ever get to the point where we have a team playing like a real NFL team all of this noise will just go away. I might even get my mental health back. Until then 😔. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

7 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

The gb one was during his pumped up celebration after his go ahead touchdown catch vs Alexander. Which is fine but I just wish he'd wait til he gets to the sideline prior to ripping it off.

Oh ok, so basically the same as what DJ Moore did. Yeah, we got lucky not being penalized for that then. So, 1 out of those 3 instances we should’ve been flagged for (in my opinion)

 

but I agree, I’d prefer these players to wait until they’re  actually off the field also, so that we don’t have to give the refs a possible chance to throw a flag 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Cooleyfan1993

[hail2skins]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

What I want is to win some games like the cowboys did yesterday, hard fought, not perfect, I'm not asking for perfection but good football that leads to convincing wins.

What we always get even when we win is just plain ugliness that results in a close and extremely fortuitous victory that we can never be proud of.

Wins such as the ones against the Jags and the Packers are likely about as convincing as you're going to see from the Commanders this season.

 

I've lost a lot of passion for not only this team but the league in general, as its become too focused on offense and the calls of ticky tack roughing the QB penalties and morons taking off their helmets before they're supposed to. But I've been a fan for 50 years and went to almost every game at FedEx for 22 seasons, so I invest the three hours on Sunday. And while it can get very frustrating watching games like yesterday's and a few Thursdays ago when we played Chicago, I also know that I can't **** about that and at the same time **** when I see the absurdity of the track meet at the end of the Buffalo-KC playoff game last year.

 

I think a big problem is that a lot of people were fans of the team and league back in the 80s when you saw the domination. I've come to accept that isn't likely to happen. Not a stretch where we get to four and win three SBs under Gibbs. Not even what the Pats did over 20 years, which is even more remarkable in a salary-cap era. I think probably the best we can hope for is, say, a 10-year period where most of the seasons are 10+ game winning ones. Will we get there?  Its entertaining watching the pursuit.

[redskinss]

12 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

Wins such as the ones against the Jags and the Packers are likely about as convincing as you're going to see from the Commanders this season

I totally agree, I don't see this team doing much of anything, they're just not there yet, but that's where my pessimism stems from.

So many years of waffling between horrible and mediocre. 

This year looks like possibly mediocre.

Every year hope springs that this will be the year they look like a good professional football team and every year those hopes are dashed.

I'm just tired of the cycle, have been for a while but this year I'm as apathetic as I've ever been.

[moondog]

23 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He’s calling a whale of a game, I think.  Minus the 4th down call. 
 

He’s gotten 128 yards out of a QB who everybody but this fan base can clearly see should not even have a contract in the NFL.  

Your eyes doth deceive you, my friend. 

[zCommander]

20 hours ago, mistertim said:

My point isn't what the receiver wanted, it was whether it was an objectively good decision and what coaches would say. I doubt you'd find any NFL coaches who would want him to do what he did given the game situation.

 

This is what the WR coach said...and some other insight on that play

 

McLaurin’s wide receivers coach, Drew Terrell, knew how it would end, too. He saw it just last weekend against the Green Bay Packers.

 

“Hell, yeah,” Terrell said. “When I saw him turn and run, I looked back at [quarterback Taylor Heinicke] to see if Taylor was looking at him. When I saw that he was throwing it up, I was like, ‘Oh, yeah — game over.’ ”

And of course McLaurin’s quarterback knew. As he turned away from his intended target, Heinicke found McLaurin making a beeline to the end zone and thought, “Hey, let’s give him another shot.”

 

With 41 seconds remaining, McLaurin put a double move on two-time all-pro cornerback Stephon Gilmore by running upfield, turning and stopping in the flat, then turning back to the end zone as Heinicke lobbed a pass his way. With Gilmore clinging to his shoulder, McLaurin held on to the ball as he tumbled to the turf at the 1-yard line for a 33-yard gain, setting up a quick touchdown run by Heinicke to win it.

 

What they didn’t know was McLaurin was a decoy on the play.

 

“We were really trying to pry a hole open for the number two guy,” Heinicke explained. “I wasn’t comfortable throwing to the number two guy because I couldn’t see clearly. He might’ve been open. Maybe not. I don’t know.”

 

The play turned into a scramble drill, and when he turned left, Heinicke saw McLaurin sprint past Gilmore to the end zone.

“Terry wasn’t going to be denied,” Coach Ron Rivera said.

 

“Terry’s that dude,” Heinicke said. “He’s got that dog in him, and I want to continue to give him opportunities to make big plays.”

 

The play was another chapter in McLaurin’s storied career in Indianapolis — and the most memorable moment in an otherwise sloppy win that turned inspiring in the final minutes.

 

“I had a lot of confidence I was going to come down with that ball,” McLaurin said. “... It’s kind of cool to be able to make that kind of play when earlier in my career, in college and stuff, I struggled with contested catches.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/10/30/commanders-colts-terry-mclaurin-homecoming/

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

This is what the WR coach said...and some other insight on that play

 

McLaurin’s wide receivers coach, Drew Terrell, knew how it would end, too. He saw it just last weekend against the Green Bay Packers.

 

“Hell, yeah,” Terrell said. “When I saw him turn and run, I looked back at [quarterback Taylor Heinicke] to see if Taylor was looking at him. When I saw that he was throwing it up, I was like, ‘Oh, yeah — game over.’ ”

And of course McLaurin’s quarterback knew. As he turned away from his intended target, Heinicke found McLaurin making a beeline to the end zone and thought, “Hey, let’s give him another shot.”

 

With 41 seconds remaining, McLaurin put a double move on two-time all-pro cornerback Stephon Gilmore by running upfield, turning and stopping in the flat, then turning back to the end zone as Heinicke lobbed a pass his way. With Gilmore clinging to his shoulder, McLaurin held on to the ball as he tumbled to the turf at the 1-yard line for a 33-yard gain, setting up a quick touchdown run by Heinicke to win it.

 

What they didn’t know was McLaurin was a decoy on the play.

 

“We were really trying to pry a hole open for the number two guy,” Heinicke explained. “I wasn’t comfortable throwing to the number two guy because I couldn’t see clearly. He might’ve been open. Maybe not. I don’t know.”

 

The play turned into a scramble drill, and when he turned left, Heinicke saw McLaurin sprint past Gilmore to the end zone.

“Terry wasn’t going to be denied,” Coach Ron Rivera said.

 

“Terry’s that dude,” Heinicke said. “He’s got that dog in him, and I want to continue to give him opportunities to make big plays.”

 

The play was another chapter in McLaurin’s storied career in Indianapolis — and the most memorable moment in an otherwise sloppy win that turned inspiring in the final minutes.

 

“I had a lot of confidence I was going to come down with that ball,” McLaurin said. “... It’s kind of cool to be able to make that kind of play when earlier in my career, in college and stuff, I struggled with contested catches.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/10/30/commanders-colts-terry-mclaurin-homecoming/

 

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but everything like this is pure hindsight.

 

If the underthrown ball had been intercepted and sealed a loss instead of an incredible play by Terry, Rivera would probably be talking about how Heinicke has to make smarter situational football decisions, considering how much time was left, field position, etc.

[zCommander]

34 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but everything like this is pure hindsight.

 

If the underthrown ball had been intercepted and sealed a loss instead of an incredible play by Terry, Rivera would probably be talking about how Heinicke has to make smarter situational football decisions, considering how much time was left, field position, etc.

 

I know you keep on saying hindsight but that WR coach said "we won" while the play was happening in real time so to that coach there was no hindsight. Just you. 

 

Ron pretty much put his stamp of approval by saying (so there is that too):

The play turned into a scramble drill, and when he turned left, Heinicke saw McLaurin sprint past Gilmore to the end zone. “Terry wasn’t going to be denied,” Coach Ron Rivera said.

 

Also you keep on saying what if the ball was an INT. That is also hindsight for you as well. Just sayin'

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by zCommander

[mistertim]

27 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I know you keep on saying hindsight but that WR coach said "we won" while the play was happening in real time so to that coach there was no hindsight. Just you. 

 

Ron pretty much put his stamp of approval by saying (so there is that too):

The play turned into a scramble drill, and when he turned left, Heinicke saw McLaurin sprint past Gilmore to the end zone. “Terry wasn’t going to be denied,” Coach Ron Rivera said.

 

Also you keep on saying what if the ball was an INT. That is also hindsight for you as well. Just sayin'

 

 

Of course it's hindsight. It's all hindsight because that was, at best, a 50/50 underthrown ball on 1st and 10 with 40 seconds on the clock, 2 timeouts, and at the opponent's 35 yard line. What exactly does anyone expect coaches to say after it works? "Well it was a dumb play, but we got lucky"? Of course not. They're going to pump their guys up and say "of course we knew it would work out"

 

If it hadn't, and that poor pass had been intercepted, Rivera would be singing a very different tune. I think the very best he could do is say "well, it could have been the right decision, but Taylor just couldn't drive the ball there in time". But he'd most likely say he wanted a better decision in that situation.

 

As far as hindsight on my part, sure. But from a situational football perspective, unless you have a QB who you know can deliver that ball exactly where it needs to be (which is the opposite of our situation), then that was an objectively poor decision.

 

If it was 3rd or 4th down and/or there was 5 seconds left on the clock, then absolutely. Who cares if TH has a noodle arm? Toss it up, because you have no choice. But that wasn't the situation at all.

Edited October 31, 2022 by mistertim

[zCommander]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Of course it's hindsight. It's all hindsight because that was, at best, a 50/50 underthrown ball on 1st and 10 with 40 seconds on the clock, 2 timeouts, and at the opponent's 35 yard line. What exactly does anyone expect coaches to say after it works? "Well it was a dumb play, but we got lucky"? Of course not. They're going to pump their guys up and say "of course we knew it would work out"

 

If it hadn't, and that poor pass had been intercepted, Rivera would be singing a very different tune. I think the very best he could do is say "well, it could have been the right decision, but Taylor just couldn't drive the ball there in time". But he'd most likely say he wanted a better decision in that situation.

 

As far as hindsight on my part, sure, But from a situational football perspective, unless you have a QB who you know can deliver that ball exactly where it needs to be (which is the opposite of our situation), then that was an objectively poor decision.

 

If it was 3rd or 4th down and/or there was 5 seconds left on the clock, then absolutely. Who cares if TH has a noodle arm? Toss it up, because you have no choice. But that wasn't the situation at all.

 

We are not on the field so we really don't know the situational football perspective at all. Taylor saw (he said it too) one on one and he threw it to him. Taylor has said that many times before if I see Terry on one and one I am going to try to get the football to him. This is who TH is and what he does. Get the ball to his playmaker like he has in the past. So TH saw Terry breaking awya and threw the ball. Now he didn't plant his feet correctly because of the scramble and the ball didn't get to Terry further out than it did last week (last week was not on a improvised play but a straight route and TH knew where Terry would be). Regardless, in that instance (yesterday) that was the play on the field left. 

 

Sure we had some time and a TO but what if he gets sacked. Lost yardage and time. Or he throws it away and we still can't get closer to the goal line with the next two plays if they happen inbound and you run out of time. I would have to trust Taylor there in that situation instead of Turner trying to come up with something with his next two plays with 34 seconds left and a TO. TD or bust was the mode they were in. 

 

We already know what the coaches think of Taylor so yeah they would have been like sigh, just like the rest of us, if that had turned out to be an INT. 

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but everything like this is pure hindsight.

 

If the underthrown ball had been intercepted and sealed a loss instead of an incredible play by Terry, Rivera would probably be talking about how Heinicke has to make smarter situational football decisions, considering how much time was left, field position, etc.

 

the ball wasn't underthrown, Gilmore advanced on where Terry was

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

Also you keep on saying what if the ball was an INT. That is also hindsight for you as well. Just sayin'

I think what mistertim is trying to say is that the end result doesn't always reflect whether it was a good decision or a good play.

That's why it gets frustrating debating heinickes worthiness based on statistics or winning percentage because there are other variables. 

It works both ways too, if heinicke threw a 60 yard laser that hit mclaurin in the hands perfectly in stride that bounced off his hands and into the arms of a receiver that returned it for a touchdown that wouldn't be a terrible throw based off of a terrible decision. 

That was a turnover worthy play that mclaurin bailed him out on and heinicke has far too many of them.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

the ball wasn't underthrown, Gilmore advanced on where Terry was

[ananoman]

It’s funny how people are arguIng  that it was a horrible throw even though McLaurin ended up hauling it in and that play won the game.

Edited November 1, 2022 by ananoman

[bowhunter]

In that situation, you really just need to ask yourself one question: WWFD?

 *What Would Favre Do? John Madden approves of Taylors decision.

[MrJL]

19 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I think what mistertim is trying to say is that the end result doesn't always reflect whether it was a good decision or a good play.

That's why it gets frustrating debating heinickes worthiness based on statistics or winning percentage because there are other variables. 

It works both ways too, if heinicke threw a 60 yard laser that hit mclaurin in the hands perfectly in stride that bounced off his hands and into the arms of a receiver that returned it for a touchdown that wouldn't be a terrible throw based off of a terrible decision. 

That was a turnover worthy play that mclaurin bailed him out on and heinicke has far too many of them.

 

 

the only reason he threw that pass was because McLaurin was there alone for a moment.  It was not underthrown because Terry never had to return to the ball.  It's not like he was standing in the endzone, the ball was three yards short and he had to run out to stop Gilmore from intercepting it

 

 

 

[redskinss]

5 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

the only reason he threw that pass was because McLaurin was there alone for a moment.  It was not underthrown because Terry never had to return to the ball.  It's not like he was standing in the endzone, the ball was three yards short and he had to run out to stop Gilmore from intercepting it

 

 

 

Nevermind I misread that.

But having said that, the fact that Terry was open and had to wait for the ball resulting in Gilmore catching up to it means it was underthrown. 

A well thrown ball would have caused Terry to have to keep running and not allow Gilmore to catch up.

Edited November 1, 2022 by redskinss

[zCommander]

19 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

the only reason he threw that pass was because McLaurin was there alone for a moment.  It was not underthrown because Terry never had to return to the ball.  It's not like he was standing in the endzone, the ball was three yards short and he had to run out to stop Gilmore from intercepting it

 

 

 

 

I am glad you brought that up. I was saying off target meaning if it was to Terry's right (with Terry facing the end zone) instead of his left he wouldn't have to fight for the ball at all. Terry had to move laterally and not come back to the ball.

 

But to some people the ball wasn't thrown to him in stride and into his hands means it was short. 

[MrJL]

30 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Nevermind I misread that.

But having said that, the fact that Terry was open and had to wait for the ball resulting in Gilmore catching up to it means it was underthrown. 

A well thrown ball would have caused Terry to have to keep running and not allow Gilmore to catch up.

 

scramble drill

 

He's no longer running a designed route, he's just moving until he gets open.  Which means the QB has to throw it to him, rather than the spot he'd going to, cause the QB  doesn't KNOW the spot he's going to

11 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I am glad you brought that up. I was saying off target meaning if it was to Terry's right (with Terry facing the end zone) instead of his left he wouldn't have to fight for the ball at all. Terry had to move laterally and not come back to the ball.

 

But to some people the ball wasn't thrown to him in stride and into his hands means it was short. 

 

okay, from that perspective I can see it being a bit off target

[FootballZombie]

The only way that pass could be viewed as not under thrown is if TH was intentionally throwing a back shoulder pass... to a WR w/ 5 yards of vertical separation.

 

Even a decent pass is a walk-in untouched TD.

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

The only way that pass could be viewed as not under thrown is if TH was intentionally throwing a back shoulder pass... to a WR w/ 5 yards of vertical separation.

 

Even a decent pass is a walk-in untouched TD.

 

Another point to consider: If Taylor thought Terry was going to go up and then hang a left then it would also have been a walk in TD as well. The ball was thrown to Terry's left more than it should have been. 

[MrJL]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

The only way that pass could be viewed as not under thrown is if TH was intentionally throwing a back shoulder pass... to a WR w/ 5 yards of vertical separation.

 

Even a decent pass is a walk-in untouched TD.

 

maybe if that was a planned double move to get him open.  It wasn't.  Where he ended up wasn't where he was supposed to be, it was just where he ended up

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, ananoman said:

It’s funny how people are arguIng  that it was a horrible throw even though McLaurin ended up hauling it in and that play won the game.

I’d like to negotiate a settlement between both parties.

 

Heinicke should be commended for extending the play and giving Terry a chance.

 

The Hive must though concede the pass was poor and could have easily gone the other way.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

Just now, MrJL said:

maybe if that was a planned double move to get him open.  It wasn't.  Where he ended up wasn't where he was supposed to be, it was just where he ended up

 

Improvised or not, you don't see a dude college football open in the NFL and willingly throw up a jump ball. Either he didn't have the arm strength to get it there, or he woefully underthrew it.

 

He legit threw an open guy into coverage.

[MrJL]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’d like to negotiate a settlement between both parties.

 

Heinicke should be commended for extending the play and giving Terry a chance.

 

The Hive must though concede the pass was poor and could have easily gone the other way.

 

 

 

I mean it obviously could have gone the other way, but I just considered it good recovery from Gilmore, especially since a key part of Terry getting open was Gilmore being an idiot.  Like it's one of the last plays of the game, he's our number 1 WR, it's his home town, and he's just gonna quit on it?  Just gonna stand there?