2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I have a hard time believing Mayer is even more athletic than Kittle. I remember loving Kittle as a college prospect. You could see his freakish athleticism on his blocks. There's no way you could see him block and think he didn't have "wiggle". Highlight reel of highlight reels for blocking. Kittle had no involvement in the passing attack, which is why he went on Day 3. But his agility was never anything but top tier for a TE.

 

For the record, George Kittle's agility testing at the combine was like elite pass rushers with bend.

 

Short Shuttle:

George Kittle - 4.07

Von Miller - 4.06

3 Cone:

George Kittle - 6.76

Von Miller - 6.70

[KillBill26]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Three TEs in the first

 

 

 

 

 

I can say with a high degree of confidence that's the first mock draft out there with Lukas Van Ness ahead of CJ Stroud.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He looks like a brainless football machine. I want.

[Captain Wiggles]

24 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He looks like a brainless football machine. I want.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I have a hard time believing Mayer is even more athletic than Kittle. I remember loving Kittle as a college prospect. You could see his freakish athleticism on his blocks. There's no way you could see him block and think he didn't have "wiggle". Highlight reel of highlight reels for blocking. Kittle had no involvement in the passing attack, which is why he went on Day 3. But his agility was never anything but top tier for a TE.

 

For the record, George Kittle's agility testing at the combine was like elite pass rushers with bend.

 

Short Shuttle:

George Kittle - 4.07

Von Miller - 4.06

3 Cone:

George Kittle - 6.76

Von Miller - 6.70

 

I like Mayer a lot, but also doubt he matches Kittle's athleticism. I posted it though because IMO he's in that Kittle, Gronk, Hockenson Y-TE mode who can do it all.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I watched Darnell Wright's game versus Alabama, head to head with Will Anderson and he more than held his own.  Another dude who I'd take in that 2nd round range, not killer good but he looks to my eyes good.

 

Strong upper body, thick arms and strong hands.  Anchors well-stout. not as an easy guy to overpower at least he wasn't in the game I watched. 

 

Gave up zero sacks last season, only six hurries.  Among the tackles those are among the best stats.  6 '6, 335, and looks a strong 335 versus a fat version of it to my eyes.  

 

As to the run game, I like him better in short yardage than motoring on the 2nd level.  But powerful. 

 

To me the red flags would be he's a late bloomer, wasn't as good the previous season when he played LT as opposed to RT.  PFF draftniks rank him 6th among their tackles, and gave him a decent rating but nothing eye popping.

 

At RT, I liked Wright better what I saw from Dawand Jones.   And i am not down on Dawand Jonees but i'd like Jones to lose some weight because he's flabby.

 

And on aside it refreshed to me that Hyatt could be a fun NFL player, explosive deep threat -- he doesn't seem to be getting as much early love than some other WRs by the draftnik types with some exceptions.  Wonder if he ends up 2nd-3rd roundish?  I am guessing though the combine will be good for him -- looks legit fast.  But will see. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

If we go back 12 months to Jan 2022, I wonder where Dotson was listed in the prospect rankings. Same the year before with Davis. From memory both of our last 2 first rounders only really emerged deep into the draft process. 
 

Not that it means anything, just an observation 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

If we go back 12 months to Jan 2022, I wonder where Dotson was listed in the prospect rankings. Same the year before with Davis. From memory both of our last 2 first rounders only really emerged deep into the draft process. 
 

Not that it means anything, just an observation 

 

Dotson in some early mocks either during the college season or before was in the first round.  But he seemed to lose some luster in the draft process.

 

I myself touted him during his last college season, then sort of lost interest then regained interest closer to the end

[Est.1974]

I may have missed this, but Drew Sanders - anyone posted much on him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Matthew Bergeron, a dude that I recall @KDawg touted.  Maybe some others too that I am forgetting.   I watched the Clemson game versus Myles Murphy.    Both are really feisty players so it was fun to watch.

 

Tough call for me between him and Wright.  PFF had Wright as a pick about a full round ahead of Bergeron but if you go through their scores item by item they almost are identical.  I like both players.  Both IMO are high enough floor players where at a minimum they are solid. 

 

What I liked about Bergeron is that the dude can really move to the 2nd level.  Has some Broderick Jones in him on that front.  He's a work in progress as a run blocker but he has the hard part down which is he has natural athleticism and can move really well for a big dude.  I think he's going to have a good combine and his stock is going to rise accordingly.  I mentioned Wright looked to be in a good shape for someone that size, I'd say Bergeron looks to be in even better shape.

 

He's a big grabby in pass protection and might get holding penalties in the NFL for it.  I like Wright a bit better as far as anchoring and using hands in pass protection but Bergeron is decent on that front.  I like Bergeron though more potentially as a run blocker on the 2nd level

 

Not totally sure he's there in the mid 2nd round at our pick but he might be.   I am sticking to the point that if they are fixated on LT (not sure if they are or not but getting some vibe they might be) and Broderick Jones is gone, I'd trade down if I can.   To me Bergeron and Wright would be good gets.  I like Anton Harrison, too, probably not as much but close.  Then I'd put Blake Freeland after them among the guys I've watched so far.  Then maybe Dawand Jones.  I'll decide though after the combine.  It's one spot that I probably care about the most as to combine measurables.

 

Bergeron seems like a good dude.   He's from Canada and referenced St. Juste in an interview.

 

 

 

 

 

JM: Not a lot of Canadians get to play in the Senior Bowl. It’s a huge achievement for you.

Matthew Bergeron: Right. The last one I can remember was Benjamin St-Juste. He balled out at the Senior Bowl. He’s from Quebec as well. I’m just trying to follow in his footsteps. I plan to make the most of this opportunity.

JM: What was your motivation for accepting the Senior Bowl’s offer?

Matthew Bergeron: I’m excited to compete alongside some of the best athletes in the nation. There’s a great group of pass rushers going to the Senior Bowl. I’m ready to compete. That’s where I’m finding motivation. I’m excited to prove that I’m able to hang alongside those guys.

JM: Who are some of the rushers you’re looking forward to competing against at the Senior Bowl?

 

] as well. I’m also excited to play against certain rushers for the first time. I’ve heard great things about this year’s group of rushers. I’m going to prove that I’m capable of competing at the highest level.

JM: Expanding on that, what are you looking to prove to NFL general managers, coaching staffs, and scouts in attendance in Mobile?

Matthew Bergeron: I’m just trying to showcase what type of person I am. I’m the ultimate competitor. I’m a great teammate first and foremost. The guys love being around me. I’m excited to showcase my leadership. I’m a hard worker. I want NFL decision-makers to become familiar with Matthew Bergeron the person.

JM: You’re highly experienced playing both left and right tackle. They’re different. Which side do you see yourself playing on at the next level?

Matthew Bergeron: My dream is to play the left tackle position. Obviously, I’d be willing to play right tackle as well. I’m a competitor at the end of the day. My pro team will ultimately make that decision. I’m going to put my best foot forward. If I get thrown in at right tackle, or even kicked inside to guard, I’m ready to compete. My dream would be to play left tackle though.

JM: That makes sense. You started five games in 2019 and have been an every-game starter ever since. What is it about your personality and skill set that allowed you to contribute from such a young age?

Matthew Bergeron: It proves that I’m a quick learner. I’m always eager to learn because I’m a competitor. Ever since I stepped foot on campus at Syracuse, even though I was Canadian and had a different background in football with the Canadian Football League (CFL), it just showed how quickly I picked up the game and our scheme at Syracuse. I think it said a lot about my ability to learn on the fly.

20 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I may have missed this, but Drew Sanders - anyone posted much on him. 

 

I did mine on the top of page 66 on this thread.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll double down the further i watch while i don't think this is a good draft in terms of depth of A list tackles.   And overall its not a sexy draft at all for OT or arguably for OG either, I do think center is at least average.

 

But IMO the B list is deep enough in this draft to address the tackle spot and i still have more guys to watch.    And IMO there are some high enough upside B guys that could be molded with a good O line coach like Masko.   The hard thing for me is to deduce where these guys end up going.   My gut is high 2nd round with one falling to our pick at 16.  

 

But yeah it does feel with the depth at corner and OT they can trade down if they find a partner to do it. 

 

Again if it were me I'd go BPA, and Mayer I still think is my guy for now.  But I got doubts that they go BPA because especially at corner they can likely justify need and BPA matches which is how they seem to roll in round 1, ditto if Broderick Jones is there -- they seemed to roll the same way when Kyle was in charge.

 

Speaking of a guy that can be molded, Tyler Steen has good size, moves well, looks stout.   I am not blown away by him but he looks solid.  He gets almost no love from draftniks, Kiper didn't have him in the top 12 ranking he did for tackle, i don't see him on the PFF list at all.  Wonder what am missing?   

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

did mine on the top of page 66 on this thread.

Thanks, great write up. I’m in. Would fit our D perfectly. May well be that player who’s stock seriously takes off pre draft. Seems like a ton of depth at CB and OL to defer to day 2. We need a TE, I think Rivera brings a vet in. My guess is Hooper on a cheap deal.

 

Wildcard, I can see Rivera loving Richardson.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'll double down the further i watch while i don't think this is a good draft in terms of depth of A list tackles.   And overall its not a sexy draft at all for OT or arguably for OG either, I do think center is at least average.

 

But IMO the B list is deep enough in this draft to address the tackle spot and i still have more guys to watch.    And IMO there are some high enough upside B guys that could be molded with a good O line coach like Masko.   The hard thing for me is to deduce where these guys end up going.   My gut is high 2nd round with one falling to our pick at 16.  

 

But yeah it does feel with the depth at corner and OT they can trade down if they find a partner to do it. 

 

Again if it were me I'd go BPA, and Mayer I still think is my guy for now.  But I got doubts that they go BPA because especially at corner they can likely justify need and BPA matches which is how they seem to roll in round 1, ditto if Broderick Jones is there -- they seemed to roll the same way when Kyle was in charge.

 

Speaking of a guy that can be molded, Tyler Steen has good size, moves well, looks stout.   I am not blown away by him but he looks solid.  He gets almost no love from draftniks, Kiper didn't have him in the top 12 ranking he did for tackle, i don't see him on the PFF list at all.  Wonder what am missing?   

The more I’m watching this class the more I’m with you that I wouldn’t go OT at 16 unless it’s Johnson and possibly Jones.

 

Mayer and JSN/Addison would be priorities (I haven’t seen news on Addison one way or the other since the deadline… I’m actually guessing he stayed)

[KillBill26]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The more I’m watching this class the more I’m with you that I wouldn’t go OT at 16 unless it’s Johnson and possibly Jones.

 

Mayer and JSN/Addison would be priorities (I haven’t seen news on Addison one way or the other since the deadline… I’m actually guessing he stayed)

Addison officially declared.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/jordan-addison-officially-declares-enter-195634485.html

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Thanks, great write up. I’m in. Would fit our D perfectly. May well be that player who’s stock seriously takes off pre draft. Seems like a ton of depth at CB and OL to defer to day 2. We need a TE, I think Rivera brings a vet in. My guess is Hooper on a cheap deal.

 

Wildcard, I can see Rivera loving Richardson.

I like Sanders a lot, but don't see us going LBer on day 2. Especially not that early. A guy that I really like for us that should go late day 2 or early day 3 is Nick Herbig. I think he has some elite tools as far as speed and bend and is really good at getting in the backfield. Back to back solid years. His big brother is a guard for the Eagles. Played with Sips boy Leo Chenel last year. Needs to add strength, but his speed is legit.

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Addison officially declared.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/jordan-addison-officially-declares-enter-195634485.html

Okay. Thanks.

 

So in that case I think the BPA is going to be JSN/Addison most likely and Mayer. If we are weighting need into it Mayer, as SIP has suggested, is an extension of the OL and the next best thing vs OT. 
 

I think Bergeron may be able to be gotten later. And there are IOL targets that can likely start in the mid rounds as well. That’s a risk, but I don’t pass on the trio I listed for OT3 in this class.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I have a hard time justifying offensive skill position in the 1st, unless we do it through a trade down.

 

A legit in-line TE is always appealing, but TE's bust at a high rate. There's a jump in difficulty for TE's from college to pro.

 

I also find it interesting some of these plugged in draft experts think the offensive skill positions, RB, TE, WR might not have anyone go before pick 20. I doubt that happens, but a trade back just seems so appealing if we're trying to find the eventual Curtis Samuel replacement or similar.

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Speaking of a guy that can be molded, Tyler Steen has good size, moves well, looks stout.   I am not blown away by him but he looks solid.  He gets almost no love from draftniks, Kiper didn't have him in the top 12 ranking he did for tackle, i don't see him on the PFF list at all.  Wonder what am missing?   

 

His partner at LG seems pretty good too, IMO Kendall Randolph. I think Steen will rise. Glad to see Darnell Wright get some attention. He's close to being Silverback potential 2.0 for me. Juice Scruggs will be at the Shrine Bowl and going up against some great DL players. My gut tells me there's something there but could be way off.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Going Commando]

I don't really believe in this FO having the long term vision and discipline to go BPA at 16 and pick Mayer, JSN, or Addison even though I think it's one of the best moves they could make.

 

I also don't think they have the guts to trade up for one of the QBs if they fall, and I'm definitely torn about that.  On the one hand, it could be a homerun pick that saves everyone's jobs, on the other it could be wasting the next regime's draft assets to doom a QB prospect with a lame duck regime in his rookie season.

 

I think they probably stay put and pick OT3, while much better players go after in the teens and twenties.  But the better move that is still in their MO would be to trade down and get like CB4 or CB5 and recoup the losses of the Wentz trade and maybe get another late rounder.

 

The final move that I could see them doing is using 16 on an IDL if Daron walks, or they do successfully tag and trade him.  I think there is a chance that Bresee is the pick.

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 And overall its not a sexy draft at all for OT or arguably for OG either, I do think center is at least average.

 

Pretty underwhelming at OG thus far I agree. 

 

Alabama OG Kendall Randolph looks promising. I'm not sure if Miami OG Javion Cohen is entering the draft or not but he is also promising. UCLA OG Antoni Mafi and Golden Gopher OG Nick Filiaga look okay but likely day 3 guys.

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I don't really believe in this FO having the long term vision and discipline to go BPA at 16 and pick Mayer, JSN, or Addison even though I think it's one of the best moves they could make.

 

Addison or JSN playing alongside of Terry and Jahan would be fun to watch.

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I don't really believe in this FO having the long term vision and discipline to go BPA at 16 and pick Mayer, JSN, or Addison even though I think it's one of the best moves they could make.

 

I also don't think they have the guts to trade up for one of the QBs if they fall, and I'm definitely torn about that.  On the one hand, it could be a homerun pick that saves everyone's jobs, on the other it could be wasting the next regime's draft assets to doom a QB prospect with a lame duck regime in his rookie season.

 

I think they probably stay put and pick OT3, while much better players go after in the teens and twenties.  But the better move that is still in their MO would be to trade down and get like CB4 or CB5 and recoup the losses of the Wentz trade and maybe get another late rounder.

 

The final move that I could see them doing is using 16 on an IDL if Daron walks, or they do successfully tag and trade him.  I think there is a chance that Bresee is the pick.

I agree except I do think if the new owner allows it that Rivera and co. could trade up for a QB if one falls to 10 or so. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Pretty underwhelming at OG thus far I agree. 

 

 

I love Torrence.  And I am digging Mauch at OG, not at LT, I am about to write something up about him, I just want to watch one more game of him to feel more confident about my read on him.  But after those two I am not that jazzed about what I've watched or read about at OG so far but i'll dig deeper. 

 

Center to me feels some like tackle.  Not the A list types but Michael-Schmitz is close on that front.   But I could dig Oluwatimi, Wypler, Tippman and further down in the draft Stromberg.

 

As for tackle like i mentioned, there are some guys that I like in the 2nd round range where i'd feel comfortable skipping tackle in the first.  

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Addison or JSN playing alongside of Terry and Jahan would be fun to watch.

 

It's the holy grail of weaponry.  Every NFL team is looking for three big time passing game weapons to put on the field at the same time, because you can only double two weapons on a play and still field a four man rush.  If you get that AND either have a QB who is a run threat or a RB who is a serious underneath weapon, then you're going to have an explosive offense.

 

If we get Addison or JSN, they're either going to draw one of the doubles and Terry and Jahan are now beating defenses deep, or they get the single coverage and dice dudes up and catch 100 balls as rookies.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Okay. Thanks.

 

So in that case I think the BPA is going to be JSN/Addison most likely and Mayer. If we are weighting need into it Mayer, as SIP has suggested, is an extension of the OL and the next best thing vs OT. 
 

I think Bergeron may be able to be gotten later. And there are IOL targets that can likely start in the mid rounds as well. That’s a risk, but I don’t pass on the trio I listed for OT3 in this class.

 

Yeah I think if Broderick Jones goes before our pick, I am not rushing to take tackle (assuming Johnson is long gone), not because I don't like others but there are enough IMO in close range of each other and i don't think any of them would be BPA in the range of our pick in the first.

 

Speaking of Addison and the Wr spot, I was listening to Kiper-McShay's podcast today they were raving about Zay Flowers.  I have to watch him now.  

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise