2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I don't really believe in this FO having the long term vision and discipline to go BPA at 16 and pick Mayer, JSN, or Addison even though I think it's one of the best moves they could make.

 

 

I liked Kyle Smith but i always found the BPA stuff BS rhetoric that he would espouse in predraft interviews or post draft.  I think after the first round they sometimes loosen up to BPA but even then not always.   Part of that, I wonder if it has to do with this being a crappy FA spot, not a destination spot, where needs aren't always filled in FA.  But regardless for whatever reason, I think they zero in on give or take 2 spots and go BPA especially in the first.

 

Daron Payne has been a good player so it worked out fine.  But I do recall that draft where it keep leaking and Doug more or less confirmed predraft they wanted a DT early or a RB.  Seemed inevitable it would be Payne or Vea.  In another draft we kept hearing QB-Edge.  And we get Haskins and Sweat.  Last year, it was WR or OT.  

 

This year it seems to be OT or CB.  Right now if I had to guess.

 

A.  Best corner available

B.  Trade down and they take OT or CB

C.  Tackle if one of the top 3 is still there

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Speaking of Addison and the Wr spot, I was listening to Kiper-McShay's podcast today they were raving about Zay Flowers.  I have to watch him now.  

 

Yeah I've heard a lot of hype for Flowers too.  He's legitimately good and a fringe first round pick to me.  Very much like Kadarius Toney in style when I first glanced at him, but that's not an iron take from me.  I didn't think he was as good as Addison or JSN and I didn't like his play strength or the quality of his overall tree as much as theirs.  For all his speed and shiftiness, he's not the third level playmaker that they are.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah I've heard a lot of hype for Flowers too.  He's legitimately good and a fringe first round pick to me.  Very much like Kadarius Toney in style when I first glanced at him, but that's not an iron take from me.  I didn't think he was as good as Addison or JSN and I didn't like his play strength or the quality of his overall tree as much as theirs.  For all his speed and shiftiness, he's not the third level playmaker that they are.

 

They were saying he's a gamer, they move him all over the field, the QB wasn't hot yet he did fine regardless and the coaches love him, leader type

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

Interior DL:

 

Jalen Carter. Probably more of a 3T but can play either spot. Good lateral movement. Strong punch. Explosive. Re-establishes the LoS. Can get down the line in backside pursuit very well and keeps himself in good position. Great at splitting double teams. Dominant force. My caution with him: He plays very high. Will need to lower pad level in the NFL. 

 

Bryan Bresee. First thing I've REALLY noticed about his game is he shows up in the biggest games and dominates them. Athletic, strong. Is a problem for any opposing offense. He takes on multiple blockers and disrupts offensive intentions. He is a read and react guy more than a downhill attacker so his production isn't all that high end. He also has dealt with multiple injuries and the death of his sister. I think his NFL career is going to be better than his college career without those life altering changes. 

 

Siaki Ika. This dude is an absolute mansion. He is about 360 pounds but plays like he's 20 pounds lighter. He is a bad man. The way he moves laterally isn't freakin' normal for a guy that large. He's probably more of a 1T based on his size... but Baylor used him plenty as a 3T and he was able to stunt/twist laterally and up with ease. Plays with a good base and pad level for the most part. The way he breaks through the LoS and squares up, keeps his feet chopping and breaks while discarding blockers is what a coach dreams of on the defensive line. He isn't as good of a pass rusher as Carter, but he actually may be on par with Bresee. So far, he's the best run stuffing guy I've seen on this list. Like I said he can play 3 or 1, but I think his primary and best usage is as a 1-tech with the intention of no displacement, winning at the LoS and drawing multiple blockers. Not going to lie, as much as I don't think we'd be in the market for a DL the thought of him with Jon Allen is salivating. This guy is underrated as hell in the draftnik community. 

 

Gervon Dexter. Guy is a horse and uses his moves well. He rarely gets stuck on a blocker. Uses his hands and can do a little bit of everything you want a quality player to do. Athletically he's probably better than Siaki Ika from a testing standpoint but playing speed... he's kind of slow. Gets stuck in his stance so he gets a late start. In pursuit he runs like he's stuck in quick sand. This guy is a high potential low floor pick. You improve his speed and he's going to be an issue. He has really good reaction time during the play despite his get off being slow. But I'm not sure if that makes up for it. 

 

Jacquelin Roy. Pure 1T. Does well in one on one situations but struggles against the drivers in doubles. Can anchor against a post very well but that driver comes in and he often gets knocked over as his base gets changed as he takes on the post man. He's clearly a strong player that can play against the run but I don't think he's going to be a real decent pass rusher. What I do like about him is he plays violent as hell and he sheds blocks real well in one on one situations. Real good pad level, bend and shed techniques. 

 

Calijah Kancey. I think along with Ika he's one of my "I haven't heard a ton of hype on this guy" choices. Pure motor. Relentless. Sheds a block, ready for the next block and sheds that. Uses an entire arsenal of moves. Head fakes, dips, rips, spins, clubs, hand swipes, wrist control. Guy is just a really solid player. I worry a bit about his size against doubles in the NFL. But at 6-0, 280 he plays a with a base that can be tough to displace. But NFL OL are monsters, so he'll need to add good weight to the frame. My biggest "skill" concern is how he plays with his eyes down sometimes. But he is a square, solid base, athletic guy.

 

Zachh Pickens. Excellent get off. Plays with great extension and leverage. He is technically very sound and redirect well. If you hit him in the hole he is tackling you. But he does seem to struggle a little bit with his read and react skills and isn't a great tackler while moving laterally. 

 

Byron Young. NFL ready guy. Stout. Powerful. Takes on multiple blockers very well. Strong. I have some concerns with him with his style. He plays as a bully in college. Straight drive backwards and shed style as he takes on IOL. It worked. Very well in college. But it doesn't work as well against the stronger offensive linemen. Tennessee managed him (and the Bama DL) real well. I have a feeling that's a preview for him in the NFL. Has to add moves to his toolbox. 

 

Rankings:

 

1. Jalen Carter

2. Siaki Ika

3. Calijah Kancey

4. Bryan Bresee

5. Zachh Pickens

6. Byron Young

7. Gervon Dexter

8. Jaquelin Roy

 

I'm not really all that impressed with the IDL given how much they have been touted. But so far it's not a bad group. Obviously I have more to watch and I think there are some guys that may add to the quality depth of the position. But we'll see. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Interior DL:

 

 

Siaki Ika. This dude is an absolute mansion. He is about 360 pounds but plays like he's 20 pounds lighter. He is a bad man. The way he moves laterally isn't freakin' normal for a guy that large. He's probably more of a 1T based on his size... but Baylor used him plenty as a 3T and he was able to stunt/twist laterally and up with ease. Plays with a good base and pad level for the most part. The way he breaks through the LoS and squares up, keeps his feet chopping and breaks while discarding blockers is what a coach dreams of on the defensive line. He isn't as good of a pass rusher as Carter, but he actually may be on par with Bresee. So far, he's the best run stuffing guy I've seen on this list. Like I said he can play 3 or 1, but I think his primary and best usage is as a 1-tech with the intention of no displacement, winning at the LoS and drawing multiple blockers. Not going to lie, as much as I don't think we'd be in the market for a DL the thought of him with Jon Allen is salivating. This guy is underrated as hell in the draftnik community. 

 

 

I talked about Ika a few pages ago, reminds me of Vea in some ways.  Bowling ball.  I posted this clip below of him blowing by two guys.

 

I worry though about 360 pound players, can they lose weight let alone not balloon further.  Also I noticed Baylor limited his reps in a big way so wonder what kind of shape he is in?

 

What i said is if he drops 20 pounds for the combine I'd feel a lot better  

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I talked about Ika a few pages down, reminds me of Vea in some ways.  Bowling ball.  I posted this clip below of him blowing by two guys.

 

I worry though about 360 pound players, can they lose weight let alone not balloon further.  Also I noticed Baylor limited his reps in a big way so wonder what kind of shape he is in?

 

What i said is if he drops 20 pounds for the combine I'd feel a lot better  

 

He's not an every down guy. But with our DL we wouldn't need him to be. But getting him is a pipedream. We don't have the ammo or enough of a need to waste a pick on a budget team on a 1-T to share reps with Phi Mathis and Ridgeway if we lose Payne. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He's not an every down guy. But with our DL we wouldn't need him to be. But getting him is a pipedream. We don't have the ammo or enough of a need to waste a pick on a budget team on a 1-T to share reps with Phi Mathis and Ridgeway if we lose Payne. 

 

Agree he's definitley intriguing.

 

I recall being at the Tampa-Washington game back in 2018 and Vea was a blast to watch, such a big man, a wall against the run and he would just blow up our interior it seemed like whenever he felt like.

 

Ika brings me flashes back to that game. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Cody Mauch.  I admit I didn't want to like him.  I find the caveman sort of rap about certain O lineman where the narrative is bigger than the play annoying.  But I do like him, don't love him but I think Masko likely could develop him.  I do love him as a tone setter type of player.

 

A poor man's Scherff.  Scherff played LT but was really a natural RG.  Likely the same with Mauch.  I recall the draft special with Jon Gruden and Kiper where Gruden showed some of the mauler 2nd level blocks from Scherff and dug the plays and attitude.  Mauch has some of that mean streak in him.  some say he has shortish arms, tough for me to tell but that would be the kicker if so IMO to move him inside.

 

If they want to be a nasty running team, Mauch fits it perfectly.  Probaby more so than Torrence.  I like Torrence a lot and I like him over Mauch as a pass protector.  Torrence is a good run blocker too but IMO Mauch is the nastier run blocker and better on the move on the 2nd level.

 

I don't think I like Mauch at LT.  As a pass blocker he's a bit upright without the bend I'd like, almost got beat a few times in the games I watched and he's not facing the stiffiest competition.   Like Cosmi, I think he can pull off RT but is probably better suited at RG. 

 

Cosmi and Mauch on the right side would be nasty and fun with Robinson charging behind them.  You add a Y-TE who can move like Darnell Washington running along with them and now you are talking.

 

Mauch's thing is definitely run blocking.  He motors to the 2nd level and blocks well in space.  Nasty at times. He finishes his blocks, too.  Many of the lineman I watch, get in front of their assignment and that defender at times bounces off of them and still makes a play.  You don't see that happen often with Mauch.  Mauch is a people mover and will hold his block and take the defender out of the play.

 

He's not perfect as a run blocker, he will sometimes miss assignments but overall I like him a lot if the idea is to run the ball and do it with attitude.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

Maryland OT Jaelyn Duncan will be another riser IMO. He's good.

 

UCLA WR Jake Bobo will be higher on my list than most but I like him a lot. He'd bring a different element to the offense and has soft, reliable hands. 

 

Virginia WR Dontayvion Wicks is underrated.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Maryland OT Jaelyn Duncan will be another riser IMO. He's good.

 

UCLA WR Jake Bobo will be higher on my list than most but I like him a lot. He'd bring a different element to the offense and has soft, reliable hands. 

 

Virginia WR Dontayvion Wicks is underrated.

I don’t understand Duncan. Guy seemed to regress every season. Sometimes looks lazy. Then sometimes looks dominant for a spurt to returning to lazy. I haven’t formed a full take on him yet but currently not a fan. But he’s a guy I keep going back to.

 

Watched Brenton Cox a bit as well as same boat. Well, not the same. I think Cox is NFL caliber and can play. Just undecided where I think he slots. Full take incoming there. 
 

Watched more Joey Porter/Witherspoon/Gonzalez and right now I’m Witherspoon 1, JPJr 2 and Gonzo 3.
 

I have two position groups to do some initial watches with (safety and IOL) then I’m going to start deep diving on guys. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by KDawg

[Chump Bailey]

Just now, KDawg said:

I don’t understand Duncan. Guy seemed to regress every season. Sometimes looks lazy. Then sometimes looks dominant for a spurt to returning to lazy. I haven’t formed a full take on him yet but currently not a fan. But he’s a guy I keep going back to. 

 

I love his footwork but maybe I need to watch more...

[Redwards]

I can see us drafting O lineman to fit Ron's caveman football style of 2:1 run / pass ratio, getting a new owner who will, in all likelihood, can Ron and his crew after a year and then replace them with people who want to have a modern day high-scoring passing attack like the Bills or KC, etc., then have to replace some of the O line again because all they can really do is run block.  I truly hope we're not wasting time and valuable draft picks this year.  

 

I have a real feeing that this team is going to get a touch worse in the next few seasons before it gets better.  But, big picture in mind: getting rid of Dan is everything.  Because with him there really is nothing.  

[Zim489]

 

for the love of god tank

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Chump Bailey]

A potential sneaky good draft bargain Edge player to keep tabs on IMO is Washington Husky Jeremiah Martin. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Some draftnink types think Darnell Washington sneaks into the first.   I wonder, i am guessing the 2nd.  But I think its possible if he kills the combine which he might.

 

As much as I am discounting this team going off OT-CB because I think their tendency is to go with need, I wonder if this team would consider Washington if they traded down in the first or if he's still there in the 2nd.   Assuming the run game identity is what they are fixated on.  Some beat guys think the run identity is BS overblown rhetoric from them and that's more about them conjuring up an excuse/tactic if the QB is struggiling.  But who knows?  

 

But if they are dead serious about the run game, Darnell is such a unqiue weapon as a blocker, I can't recall a TE with the range that this dude has as a blocker.  He is a TE unicorn as to his blocking.  He blocks out of the backfield -- FB-HB, on the line, off the line, 2nd level.  The dude is a chess piece blocker and more so than any TE that I can recall.  He's like a 6th O lineman and he brings some Brandon Scherff level 2nd level blocks.     

 

He's awesone if they idea is to go with 6 man protections and or get some explosive plays in the run game.  And heck with his athleticism he likely can evolve as a pass catcher.  I'd be mildly surprised but it wouldn't shock me if he's on their radar. 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some draftnink types think Darnell Washington sneaks into the first.   I wonder, i am guessing the 2nd.  But I think its possible if he kills the combine which he might.

 

As much as I am discounting this team going off OT-CB because I think their tendency is to go with need, I wonder if this team would consider Washington if they traded down in the first or if he's still there in the 2nd.   Assuming the run game identity is what they are fixated on.  Some beat guys think the run identity is BS overblown rhetoric from them and that's more about them conjuring up an excuse/tactic if the QB is struggiling.  But who knows?  

 

But if they are dead serious about the run game, Darnell is such a unqiue weapon as a blocker, I can't recall a TE with the range that this dude has as a blocker.  He is a TE unicorn as to his blocking.  He blocks out of the backfield -- FB-HB, on the line, off the line, 2nd level.  The dude is a chess piece blocker and more so than any TE that I can recall.  He's like a 6th O lineman and he brings some Brandon Scherff level 2nd level blocks.     

 

He's awesone if they idea is to go with 6 man protections and or get some explosive plays in the run game.  And heck with his athleticism he likely can evolve as a pass catcher.  I'd be mildly surprised but it wouldn't shock me if he's on their radar. 

 

 

 

Agree. I have Darnell as my 1b tight end and honestly think he and Mayer both have the same kind of upside. So, I wouldn’t argue with getting him in any shape or form. But Mayer has a slight edge in my eyes.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Agree. I have Darnell as my 1b tight end and honestly think he and Mayer both have the same kind of upside. So, I wouldn’t argue with getting him in any shape or form. But Mayer has a slight edge in my eyes.

Yeah me too. Mayer is my guy. But Washington is next and what a freak he is as a blocker and I like his potential as a pass catcher 

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some draftnink types think Darnell Washington sneaks into the first.   I wonder, i am guessing the 2nd.  But I think its possible if he kills the combine which he might.

 

As much as I am discounting this team going off OT-CB because I think their tendency is to go with need, I wonder if this team would consider Washington if they traded down in the first or if he's still there in the 2nd.   Assuming the run game identity is what they are fixated on.  Some beat guys think the run identity is BS overblown rhetoric from them and that's more about them conjuring up an excuse/tactic if the QB is struggiling.  But who knows?  

 

But if they are dead serious about the run game, Darnell is such a unqiue weapon as a blocker, I can't recall a TE with the range that this dude has as a blocker.  He is a TE unicorn as to his blocking.  He blocks out of the backfield -- FB-HB, on the line, off the line, 2nd level.  The dude is a chess piece blocker and more so than any TE that I can recall.  He's like a 6th O lineman and he brings some Brandon Scherff level 2nd level blocks.     

 

He's awesone if they idea is to go with 6 man protections and or get some explosive plays in the run game.  And heck with his athleticism he likely can evolve as a pass catcher.  I'd be mildly surprised but it wouldn't shock me if he's on their radar. 

 

 

 

Remember Jim Kleinsasser from the Vikings.  Just a beast of a blocker who lined up everywhere.  Maybe he's kind of like that?

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Remember Jim Kleinsasser from the Vikings.  Just a beast of a blocker who lined up everywhere.  Maybe he's kind of like that?

 

Vaguely.    But not well enough to compare.  i think Washington will make a much bigger impact in the passing game than Kleinsasser. 

 

I am hyping Washington's blocking but that's not his whole game.  As a receiver, he had over 450 yards this past season, over 16 YPC even though he was playing side by side with an elite TE who was the more used passing weapon.   

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just watched some more Darnell what a freak of a player as for size/speed/strength. I waver on it some but I think he legit likely goes in the bottom first range the more I think about it 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

Wisconsin DT Keeanu Benton is good and Ohio State's Donovan Jackson is also very, very good.  

Edited January 22, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Watched more Joey Porter/Witherspoon/Gonzalez and right now I’m Witherspoon 1, JPJr 2 and Gonzo 3.

I’ve finally got to the corners this weekend. I am similar to you but have Gonzalez ahead of Porter 

[Going Commando]

I know someone else posted this article earlier, but can't remember if it was in this thread: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/35463411/ranking-nfl-rookie-classes-2022-teams-most-production-value-star-players

 

The Commanders bit:
 

Quote

---

28. Washington Commanders

The Commanders' rookie class was laid low by injury. First-round wide receiver Jahan Dotson missed five games with a hamstring injury and had only four total targets in the three games he played after returning (Weeks 10-12). Overall, Dotson finished with 35 catches for 523 yards and seven touchdowns; his 12.5% receiving DVOA was second among qualifying rookie receivers behind Pickens. Second-round defensive tackle Phidarian Mathis went down with a knee injury in Week 1. Of course, you know about the gunshot wound that cost running back Brian Robinson Jr. the early part of the season, although he did return by October. He started nine games and gained 797 yards on 205 carries (a pedestrian 3.9 yards per carry).

The Commanders do get some credit for defensive tackle John Ridgeway, originally a fifth-round pick of the Cowboys. He played over 30% of defensive snaps for Washington after the Commanders picked him up off waivers in mid-September. Defensive backs Percy Butler and Christian Holmes primarily saw the field on special teams.

 

 

That's a pretty bad ranking, and I'm wondering how we can have fewer points than a couple of the mediocre looking classes ranked ahead of us in the 20s.  Unfortunately, we didn't get a lot of rookie year impact compared to the top classes in the league.  But I think there is some reason for optimism due to Jahan being graded second among rookie WRs behind Olave according to their system, and Howell is going to get a chance to start next season and explode the impact of our class.

 

There are some interesting tidbits about other rookies from around the league in that article.  A small handful of my bang the table guys from last year did well in their grading systems:

 

- Tyler Allgeier was my guy, the one I wanted on day 3, and he finished as their best rookie RB

- Jalen Pitre finished with the most plays made of any defensive player in the rookie class

- Devin Lloyd finished second

- Malcolm Rodriguez started 15 games for a playoff team and had a low missed tackle rate

- Coby Bryant was good for the Seahawks in the nickel.

- Linderbaum was the best rookie offensive lineman according to their grading system, and not only that, but he led all centers league-wide in run block win rate, and was 12th in pass block win rate.

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I know someone else posted this article earlier, but can't remember if it was in this thread: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/35463411/ranking-nfl-rookie-classes-2022-teams-most-production-value-star-players

 

The Commanders bit:
 

 

That's a pretty bad ranking, and I'm wondering how we can have fewer points than a couple of the mediocre looking classes ranked ahead of us in the 20s.  Unfortunately, we didn't get a lot of rookie year impact compared to the top classes in the league.  But I think there is some reason for optimism due to Jahan being graded second among rookie WRs behind Olave according to their system, and Howell is going to get a chance to start next season and explode the impact of our class.

 

There are some interesting tidbits about other rookies from around the league in that article.  A small handful of my bang the table guys from last year did well in their grading systems:

 

- Tyler Allgeier was my guy, the one I wanted on day 3, and he finished as their best rookie RB

- Jalen Pitre finished with the most plays made of any defensive player in the rookie class

- Devin Lloyd finished second

- Malcolm Rodriguez started 15 games for a playoff team and had a low missed tackle rate

- Coby Bryant was good for the Seahawks in the nickel.

- Linderbaum was the best rookie offensive lineman according to their grading system, and not only that, but he led all centers league-wide in run block win rate, and was 12th in pass block win rate.

Our D is tough.  Even if we can't pay for Payne.  We can get picks for him if we FT him.  If a new owner comes in, we don't know what's going to happen, but I think the draft should be concentrated around protecting Howell and giving him a legit TE in the 1st or 2nd round.