2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

Tanner McKee reminds me of, shockingly, Davis Mills. Dude is 6-6 235 and has a live arm. Can make all the throws. Not a tremendous arm but NFL live. Multiple reads. Can manipulate defenders with his eyes. Has very fundamentally sound feet. Downsides? He’s a statue and doesn’t deal well with pressure. 
 

Watched Anthony Richardson vs Utah. The guy is a baller. I know it’s not popular to say that. And I’ll get into why I understand the stance in a second… but he is big, strong, fast, agile, has a howitzer for an arm. He’s great with the ball in his hands. He knows how to sell run reads and he accelerates fast as hell. He is legitimately elite from a height/weight/athleticism point of view. High end elite freak of nature ability. He flicks his wrist and the ball flies out and he has an extremely smooth and fast release. 

 

As for why people are nervous about him: he rushes. A lot of quarterbacks that are next level can make decisions quickly but they look poised and smooth and keep their mechanics. To date, Richardson hasn’t. He rushes, throws mechanics out the window and that causes passes to go anywhere but where he wanted. Against Utah he threw a swing pass backwards. His receiver caught it so it was a non issue but I noticed it. He will throw off his back foot when pressure comes to virtually no one. It seems like his hips aren’t involved at times when he rushes things. And in part because of all of that, his accuracy is not good. 53%. Watching Utah it felt like all of his incompletions came when he rushed himself. I’ve watched 3-4 full games of him now and I can say with confidence that most of those inaccurate passes came when he was trying to play fast and played reckless. Lastly, I’m not sure he played in a scheme that prepared him for the passing demands of the NFL. Limited reads for sure.

 

But he has every tool you want in a first round QB. Some say he reminds them of Malik Willis and that scares them. I think that’s a horrible comparison. Willis is smaller, not as strong and played against much worse competition. I’m not sure he’s as fast, either. I can see a Josh Allen comp as far as how he plays, but they were different in college, too. But I think Allen is a much better comp than Willis.

 

As far as Levis goes, I'm warming up to him.  He's an accurate passer with a good arm and I love how he slides in the pocket and keeps his technique as he moves as long as he can before he breaks out. He is very quick with his reads. He stands in the pocket and takes hits, too. Has good footwork. I don't think he's a "runner" but he can run. If a team wants to employ some run reads he is fully capable of getting downhill and running. Not sure you want him to, but I think he can run some guys over. He can get a little sloppy with his mechanics at times, but in college his arm saved him. A lot of his picks are when his mechanics break down. He threw 23 interceptions combined the last two years to 43 TD. While those are solid numbers the turnover bug is the thing that can kill him in the NFL. He actually reminds me a little of Daniel Jones. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by KDawg

[KDawg]

 

Corners:

 

Joey Porter, Jr is excellent at staying in phase. I can't really get a feel for how he recovers because he doesn't seem to find himself in bad positions very often. Has really solid hips, processing speed, awareness, football IQ, aggressive, solid tackler, breaks receivers hands with his hands on a routine basis. I love how he plays slants. Secures with his upfield hand, head and front side hand in front of the receiver. I think defending slants is actually his best asset and he has a lot of them. He is ultra aggressive which might get him in trouble. He makes a lot of hand contact down field and I think he is susceptible to double moves. 

 

Cam Smith is a ballhawk and an absolute thumper at the CB position. He actually has a skillset where he could probably play safety as well as CB in the NFL. He tracks the ball real well and has a really fast t-step and break speed. His feet are quick and he mirrors receivers initial steps real well. I think he is more of an off-man corner, excelling in zones and off-man stuff. There isn't much that I can see with him playing press coverage and generally if a team has a guy that is as polished of a player as Cam, they utilize him more in press situations if he is good at it. I think he tries to bait QBs too much as well. That works in college but won't in the pros. I think he is a high end talent that will be taken early but will need some time to develop into a starting caliber NFL corner. But he will get there if he improves on some things. And if he does that... watch out NFL. 

 

Kelee Ringo. After watching the first two guys the first thing I notice about Ringo is how stiff he looks when he moves. I don't know that he has the hips and footwork to play man coverage on a regular basis in the NFL. He also likes to hold receivers out of their breaks in man coverage. He's very handsy. Holds a lot. He's actually a really effective blitzer and takes good angles in the run game/rallying to the throw. I think he's excellent at press on the LoS. Every time he's in press he seems to slow the progress of the receiver, but it's the top of the route that makes me nervous about him. He'd be excellent in coverage against tight ends and big slots. He's a fantastic overall athlete and seems to have a high end football IQ. 

 

Devon Witherspoon. I haven't seen a ton of hype for him or a ton of talk about him, but I haven't been paying too much attention to this point so it's possible that I missed it. I think he is the overall most well rounded CB in the class. He can play zone, sticky in man, you can tell he does his homework on opposing offenses, he coils well into contact, has a knack for finding the ball, he's fast, he's aggressive but not to the point where he's overly handsy. He does a nice job staying in phase against virtually every kind of route he faced. My only real concern with him is attack angles as a tackler. He has great technique at the contact point but sometimes I'm not sure he gets in the right positions as he rallies. 

 

Christian Gonzalez. Man, he is smooth. Everything he does looks like it's low effort easy mode. You don't see him overreacting to things like some of these other corners. He stays calm, stays with the receiver and picks his moment to break on the ball. Transitions well from a drop into a break, too. He's an ankle biter for a tackler, which I never love, but he does it effectively. He reads the quarterback's eyes real well. Can press and play off man. Can play zone. Criticism is how much cushion he gives faster receivers. He likes to break up on the ball, which works tremendously at the NCAA level but in the NFL will cause issues with underneath routes.

 

I touched on Emmanuel Forbes earlier in the thread. 

 

Garrett Williams is probably the best tackling CB of the ones I've watched.  Head up, wrap, drive. Can shed blocks. Ballhawk. He's not as good in transition as most of the above and he isn't as fast or smooth as some of the other corners. He relies on his physicality in college but in the NFL he's going against grown men. So he will need to continue to get some strength. High backpedal that I don't love, but a lot of that is coachable. 

 

Antonio Johnson is talked about as a great tackler, and he is in the sense that he is downhill. But he tackles high, almost totally standing up. He's a very good blitzer. He times blitzes perfectly. Has great angles. Sets the edge well. He's not as fast as the other guys. I actually think he'd probably play well in the slot where he has a size advantage and his penchant for PBUs at the LoS as a blitzer/edge setter can come into play more often. I like him quite a bit if he's playing more of that Bobby McCain/Landon Collins role vs. as an outside corner. 

 

Jaylon Jones is another guy who is solid in run support, but I think he's kind of a liability in coverage. The guy got toasted a few too many times for my liking. He opens his gate and loses the receiver in transition at times, too. 

 

1. Joey Porter, Jr.

2. Devon Witherspoon

3. Christian Gonzalez

4. Cam Smith

5. Kelee Ringo

6. Emmanuel Forbes

7. Antonio Johnson

8. Garrett Williams

9. Jaylon Jones

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Corners:

 

Clark Phillips III. I love Utah Utes DB's

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Clark Phillips III. I love Utah Utes DB's

He’s on my list. Will check him out.

[Koolblue13]

Richardson is Hurts without the chill factor. I don't like it.

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Richardson is Hurts without the chill factor. I don't like it.

 

I can't evaluate his personality and I haven't seen much on it. That is really the determining factor in how high or low teams will rate him, though. If he's a go getter that is constantly watching film and trying to improve he could elevate to the #1 spot. If he is an average film guy and worker, he's probably QB4. If he's low end or lazy he's probably QBDon'tTouchHimWithTenFootPole

[Rex Tomb]

@KDawg If I recall correctly, wasn't Kelee Ringo one of the guys that was attracting buzz in the early part of the college season?  In your opinion, did he live up to that?  If you think he'd be a guy to cover TEs, would he be the "Buffalo Nickel" we've been searching for?  Sounds like he's not the type to play on the outside based on your analysis.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

@KDawg If I recall correctly, wasn't Kelee Ringo one of the guys that was attracting buzz in the early part of the college season?  In your opinion, did he live up to that?  If you think he'd be a guy to cover TEs, would he be the "Buffalo Nickel" we've been searching for?  Sounds like he's not the type to play on the outside based on your analysis.

 

He might be okay on the outside. Some of these guys are smart and can change their game at each level. Ringo has a high end football IQ so he could be doing what works against the competition and level he's at. He is handsy as hell, though. 

 

He is a playmaker type of corner and he takes a lot of risks. 

 

I'm not sure if he's holding because he can or its his style but I'd bet on him to be smart enough to figure it out at the next level. He's probably an outside can that can play in the slot due to his skillset. 

 

I actually like him a lot. That #5 ranking leaves me room to bump him and these CBs are one of the best position groups I've looked at so far. 

[skinsfan66]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

Tanner McKee reminds me of, shockingly, Davis Mills. Dude is 6-6 235 and has a live arm. Can make all the throws. Not a tremendous arm but NFL live. Multiple reads. Can manipulate defenders with his eyes. Has very fundamentally sound feet. Downsides? He’s a statue and doesn’t deal well with pressure. 
 

Watched Anthony Richardson vs Utah. The guy is a baller. I know it’s not popular to say that. And I’ll get into why I understand the stance in a second… but he is big, strong, fast, agile, has a howitzer for an arm. He’s great with the ball in his hands. He knows how to sell run reads and he accelerates fast as hell. He is legitimately elite from a height/weight/athleticism point of view. High end elite freak of nature ability. He flicks his wrist and the ball flies out and he has an extremely smooth and fast release. 

 

As for why people are nervous about him: he rushes. A lot of quarterbacks that are next level can make decisions quickly but they look poised and smooth and keep their mechanics. To date, Richardson hasn’t. He rushes, throws mechanics out the window and that causes passes to go anywhere but where he wanted. Against Utah he threw a swing pass backwards. His receiver caught it so it was a non issue but I noticed it. He will throw off his back foot when pressure comes to virtually no one. It seems like his hips aren’t involved at times when he rushes things. And in part because of all of that, his accuracy is not good. 53%. Watching Utah it felt like all of his incompletions came when he rushed himself. I’ve watched 3-4 full games of him now and I can say with confidence that most of those inaccurate passes came when he was trying to play fast and played reckless. Lastly, I’m not sure he played in a scheme that prepared him for the passing demands of the NFL. Limited reads for sure.

 

But he has every tool you want in a first round QB. Some say he reminds them of Malik Willis and that scares them. I think that’s a horrible comparison. Willis is smaller, not as strong and played against much worse competition. I’m not sure he’s as fast, either. I can see a Josh Allen comp as far as how he plays, but they were different in college, too. But I think Allen is a much better comp than Willis.

 

As far as Levis goes, I'm warming up to him.  He's an accurate passer with a good arm and I love how he slides in the pocket and keeps his technique as he moves as long as he can before he breaks out. He is very quick with his reads. He stands in the pocket and takes hits, too. Has good footwork. I don't think he's a "runner" but he can run. If a team wants to employ some run reads he is fully capable of getting downhill and running. Not sure you want him to, but I think he can run some guys over. He can get a little sloppy with his mechanics at times, but in college his arm saved him. A lot of his picks are when his mechanics break down. He threw 23 interceptions combined the last two years to 43 TD. While those are solid numbers the turnover bug is the thing that can kill him in the NFL. He actually reminds me a little of Daniel Jones. 

Richardson baller but, can he spin it? Needs to sit a couple years? Not at 16 for me. Trade down and if still there, maybe?

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Richardson baller but, can he spin it? Needs to sit a couple years? Not at 16 for me. Trade down and if still there, maybe?

He has a rocket. But that rocket might miss the farm house from the pig pen.

 

Also, I watch prospects at every position. I wouldn’t draft a QB in the first if I were in charge. Lame duck regimes should play with the toys they have.

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He has a rocket. But that rocket might miss the farm house from the pig pen.

 

Also, I watch prospects at every position. I wouldn’t draft a QB in the first if I were in charge. Lame duck regimes should play with the toys they have.

This is my opinion as well.

 

If we had a coach with some long term job security, that was an offensive mind with a decent track record of QB development, then sure take a shot at Richardson or some other boom or bust prospect at 16.

 

We have...the exact opposite of all of that.

[skinsfan66]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

He has a rocket. But that rocket might miss the farm house from the pig pen.

 

Also, I watch prospects at every position. I wouldn’t draft a QB in the first if I were in charge. Lame duck regimes should play with the toys they have.

Let's see what we got? Sign a low budget QB or Draft another QB later.  Maybe 3rd rd. and down or 2.   OL, first with possible trade down if top Tackles are gone. Agree no need to sign a rocket if he has 53% GPS guiding it.

[KDawg]

Just now, skinsfan66 said:

Let's see what we got? Sign a low budget QB or Draft another QB later.  Maybe 3rd rd. and down or 2.   OL, first with possible trade down if top Tackles are gone. Agree no need to sign a rocket if he has 53% GPS guiding it.

Keep in mind that his athletic ability allows for development. Josh Allen was very similar completion % wise when he came out.

 

But this isn’t the time or place for him. 

[Going Commando]

Man Bryce Young throws one of the most catchable balls on these RB checkdowns you will ever see.  Gibbs has super soft hands but these throws are money.

 

I don't care if he's tiny and I don't care if Ron is entering a lame duck season, if Bryce Young falls into our range, we should get him.  He is an awesome quarterback.  He has every single thing you could want in a QB except size.  If he can stay healthy, I think he's going to be one of the best QBs in the NFL.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

Man Bryce Young throws one of the most catchable balls on these RB checkdowns you will ever see.  Gibbs has super soft hands but these throws are money.

 

I don't care if he's tiny and I don't care if Ron is entering a lame duck season, if Bryce Young falls into our range, we should get him.  He is an awesome quarterback.  He has every single thing you could want in a QB except size.  If he can stay healthy, I think he's going to be one of the best QBs in the NFL.

Ok but he aint falling past 2 lol

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Ok but he aint falling past 2 lol

 

He could definitely drop.  His playing weight is like 190 pounds.  There's also going to be a quarterback carousel among teams picking in the top ten that will shake up the class.  If he drops down into the ~8 range, we need to be thinking trade up.

[Chump Bailey]

Alabama CB Eli Ricks = me likey

[mistertim]

I wouldn't be surprised if Richardson falls out of the 1st in the draft. His accuracy is spotty at the best of times, though he's an incredible athlete and runner and has a big arm. I think he's more of a project in the NFL. I know some people might think that's nuts, given his talent. But I was also called crazy when I suggested last year before the draft that Malik Willis may fall out of the 1st round. Yes Willis was playing against far inferior opponents, but IMO he also had much better accuracy in general.

 

And yeah, Josh Allen had a poor completion percentage in college and now is elite. But how many guys can we point to besides him where that happened? In pretty much any other case I can think of a guy who had poor accuracy and completion percentage in college went on to be mostly the same in the NFL. 

[Warhead36]

9 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

He could definitely drop.  His playing weight is like 190 pounds.  There's also going to be a quarterback carousel among teams picking in the top ten that will shake up the class.  If he drops down into the ~8 range, we need to be thinking trade up.

I don't see that happening. Too many teams at or near the top that need QBs bad. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Watching a little of Ivan Pace, LB Cincy.    I like him a lot, fun player to watch.

 

Fun player.  I've leaned over the years to value LBs who find themsleves making plays (like a Malcomb Rodriguez who I watched late and liked and didn't get why he got so little love by draftniks) as opposed to those being around the action without so much making plays.  Pace is a make plays type of LB from what I saw.  Though I just watched one game so I have to dive in more.

 

He's a but undersized and doesn't wrap around and finsh tackles as much as I'd like.  But the dude shoots around the field ike a missle.  Both as a run stopper and versus the pass.  And can blitz and go get the QB.  He has monster numbers with 126 tackles, and 10 sacks.  3rd-4th round? 

 

Kiper doesn't even have him in his top 10 at that spot and I don't get that.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watching a little of Ivan Pace, LB Cincy.    I like him a lot, fun player to watch.

 

Fun player.  I've leanred over the years to value LBs who fund themsleves making plays as opposed to being around the action without so much making plays.  Pace is a make plays type of LB from what I saw.

 

He's a but undersized and doesn't wrap around, tackle low as much as I lack as a tackler.  But the dude shoots around like a missle.  Both as a run stopper and versus the pass.  And can blitz and go get the QB.  He has monster numbers with 126 tackles, and 10 sacks.  3rd-4th round? 

 

Kiper doesn't even have him in his top 10 and I don't get that.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

He will be on our radar. JDR seems to really respect Fickell and his opinion 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I out this on the O line thread but probably better here.  Standig is from what I find the 2nd most plugged in guy after Keim

 

 

[Warhead36]

My guess is we draft a LG or RT at 16. 

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watching a little of Ivan Pace, LB Cincy.    I like him a lot, fun player to watch.

 

Fun player.  I've leaned over the years to value LBs who find themsleves making plays (like a Malcomb Rodriguez who I watched late and liked and didn't get why he got so little love by draftniks) as opposed to those being around the action without so much making plays.  Pace is a make plays type of LB from what I saw.  Though I just watched one game so I have to dive in more.

 

He's a but undersized and doesn't wrap around and finsh tackles as much as I'd like.  But the dude shoots around the field ike a missle.  Both as a run stopper and versus the pass.  And can blitz and go get the QB.  He has monster numbers with 126 tackles, and 10 sacks.  3rd-4th round? 

 

Kiper doesn't even have him in his top 10 at that spot and I don't get that.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instincts are one of the most valuable and hard to teach or learn traits. He has shown some of the best instincts and an ability to work through traffic in this years class. I only saw small samples of him but in action but really enjoyed it.  I worry about how he will translate in the pros due to his size

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

My guess is we draft a LG or RT at 16. 

RT would make a great deal of sense if they have given up on Cosmi out there. I still hold for him as I believed in him and was thrilled with his selection.

I have spent little time on OT's so far but wonder, at 16, is there one or two of them that would be considered better on right than the left side and legit at 16?