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The Official QB Thread- With Howell the Season Went and the #2 Pick, What's next. Including Rookie QB Talk.


Koolblue13

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4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The question isn't would you take Jones over Howell. Its would you take Jones on a $40 Million salary over Howell on a rookie salary? The answer is a resounding NO. 

 

Either angle was/is a no. The Jones top 5-10 hype from '19 was borderline lunacy at the time, I think most of the board was exceedingly worried at the time that we'd target him at our slot and were ecstatic when we didn't trade up for him nor draft him (alas it still didn't work out). I preferred Howell in '22 to the Jones of '19 for two key reasons:

 

#1: Howell had a much higher ceiling to me (I get that Jones, if he hit, would be a dual threat stud, but I never felt the likely hood of a ceiling hit was remotely likely considering his college play). 

 

#2 The draft and cap capital expended was night and day, and the floor projection for both was equally close.

 

This kind of feels a lot like Flowers after Scherff went to us, and now Jones and the stupid contract. I get why they did it, but that kind of contract is exactly why the raiders were struggling so hard to figure out how to handle Carr and heck even Cousins (did he deserve the money, yes, were you winning a super bowl with him? Nope). 

 

Anyway, the question with them is: what do they do with that obvious mistake? Cut their losses early rather than late? Hope and pray they can win with him? If I were them, I'd draft a QB and just play him into the ground, while fixing what ails that offense for a half season. Cut bait after you've eaten 2 years of the deal, or 3 (maybe keep him as a back up in '25). 

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11 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The question isn't would you take Jones over Howell. Its would you take Jones on a $40 Million salary over Howell on a rookie salary? The answer is a resounding NO. 

 

Get the point and agree but Jones is costing his team 15 M this year.

 

No QB in 2023 is costing their team 40 on the cap and only 3 cost 30+

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I am optimisitc about Howell but obviously he's still an unknown.  the script has to play out some.

 

The reasons why I wasn't high on Daniel Jones before the draft.

 

A.  Turnovers

B.  I'd say he had Alex Smith's conservative approach but unlike Alex he'd still have a ton of turnovers regardless

C.  Didn't like him on the 3rd level as to passing, on the 2nd level he was at best just OK

D.  Really weird personality for the position.

 

In the NFL, he's been a little better than I gave him credit for.  Sadly because my wife is a Giants fan, I watch that team almost as much as ours.  He's uber good at first level passes.  Hits receivers in stride.  The Alex Smith stuff.    He's more ballsy throwing down the field in the NFL than he was in college but he's hit and miss on that front.  What kills him is the turnovers followed him to the pros, except for last season.  He showcases his mobility more in the pros.

 

Swing passes-screens to Barkley are his sweet spot.  I used to think ANY QB can throw on the first level well, that its easy.  But watching our QBs in camp, especially Haskins, I learned some aren't good at it.  The accuracy is meh and don't hit the receivers in stride.  Jones is masterful at it -- first level passes but he needs a dude that can take those passes and do YAC and without that its nothing to worry about.  As a runner, he has Howell's vision and a bit more speed than him.  

 

So to me Jones is about mobility and first level passes.  Otherwise he's below average IMO at everything else.  That offense is ridicously tied to Barkley and Jones's running and screens.  Without Barkley its nothing.

 

Why did and I still do like Howell better.

 

A.  Better accuracy on the 2nd-third level

B.  Better arm strength

C.  He is quiet personality wise like Daniel Jones but not weird like him

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Sam Howell has attempted just 11 runs this season for an avg. of 7.5 yards per carry, good for 1st in the league amongst QB's who've had over 10 attempts. This begs the question "why doesn't Sam run more rather than taking the sacks he's taken because he's clearly a very good runner when he chooses to run?"

Jalen Hurts has attempted 40 runs and Mahomes 23 attempts. I'm assuming pocket and field awareness will improve for Sam over time but I'd like to see him use his legs more moving forward; give the defense another element of the offense to think about. 

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8 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Sam Howell has attempted just 11 runs this season for an avg. of 7.5 yards per carry, good for 1st in the league amongst QB's who've had over 10 attempts. This begs the question "why doesn't Sam run more rather than taking the sacks he's taken because he's clearly a very good runner when he chooses to run?"

Jalen Hurts has attempted 40 runs and Mahomes 23 attempts. I'm assuming pocket and field awareness will improve for Sam over time but I'd like to see him use his legs more moving forward; give the defense another element of the offense to think about. 

Most of those unscripted potential runs, he's getting swallowed up to fast. You can see him start to run, but it's usually too late.

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32 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Most of those unscripted potential runs, he's getting swallowed up to fast. You can see him start to run, but it's usually too late.

Yeah I think he's waiting till the absolute last second to try to make a big throw downfield, which I respect, but sometimes its better to just take off and run, especially when the first down is there for the taking.

 

That and he needs to slide more. That hit he took this past Sunday on that big red zone run had me scared.

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25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I think he's waiting till the absolute last second to try to make a big throw downfield, which I respect, but sometimes its better to just take off and run, especially when the first down is there for the taking.

 

That and he needs to slide more. That hit he took this past Sunday on that big red zone run had me scared.

Many of Mahomes and Hurts runs come as a result of buying time in the pocket and then seeing a hole to run. Once Sam figures this out he should avoid more sacks moving forward. just think how many sacks Mahomes saves his offensive line from allowing just due to his pocket presence and escapability alone?

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I gather its satire but still funny

 

 

 

I am thinking Brian Daboll scammed the Giants as a good coach.  He lost it on the side line berated his QB everytime he came off the field. His OL looked like s... 11 sacks. They could not Run, Pass.  Do they have any NFL starter grade WR's on the team to get open? Some great offseason they had? On the 98 yd pick six by the rookie CB, he made a great move for a great play.   

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10 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

I am thinking Brian Daboll scammed the Giants as a good coach.  He lost it on the side line berated his QB everytime he came off the field. His OL looked like s... 11 sacks. They could not Run, Pass.  Do they have any NFL starter grade WR's on the team to get open? Some great offseason they had? On the 98 yd pick six by the rookie CB, he made a great move for a great play.   

He's a good coach but he got slurped way too much this past off season. The Giants had a bunch of close and fluky come from behind wins. They were due for big time regression. Talent wise without Saquon they are bottom of the barrel on offense.

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24 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

I am thinking Brian Daboll scammed the Giants as a good coach.  He lost it on the side line berated his QB everytime he came off the field. His OL looked like s... 11 sacks. They could not Run, Pass.  Do they have any NFL starter grade WR's on the team to get open? Some great offseason they had? On the 98 yd pick six by the rookie CB, he made a great move for a great play.   

 

They've had the perfect storm.

 

A.  A crap O line without their one stud, Andrew Thomas

B.  Barkley if I recall was involved in like 60% of their snaps last season -- this season he's been mostly hurt

C. Maybe the hardest schedule in the league to start the season -- SF, Seattle, Dallas, now Buffalo and Miami.   The Cardinals being their one easy one. We got to play those teams too but not until later on.

 

Daboll, last year was praised for taking a crap team, going 9-7 and winning a playoff game on the road.   Not sure, he's a bad coach.  Logan Paulsen who works for this team actually said he likes the Giants coaching staff specifically Daboll over our coaching staff.  

 

Signing Daniel Jones for 40 million was IMO a mistake that might dog that franchise.  It should be interesting when this team faces the Giants in NY soon enough.  As much as the Giants are beleagured right now, they play their best ball against this team and seem to have Washington's number.

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2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Ok guys help me out.

Do I start lamar Jackson against a steelers defense that has given him fits in the past or do I give Howell his first start of the season against a bad bears defense?

 

 

Haha...i got lamar and stroud....might go with the kid but steelers D matchup looks better.   who ever knows

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2 hours ago, redskinss said:

Ok guys help me out.

Do I start lamar Jackson against a steelers defense that has given him fits in the past or do I give Howell his first start of the season against a bad bears defense?

 

 

Sounds crazy but Howell is probably the safer matchup this week.

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23 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Just picked up Stroud. Pretty exciting. I had Howell, dropped him and picked up Love.

I'm in a 14 team league, the pickins are rather slim.

I overdrafted Howell knowing I overdrafted him but just wanted him.

If I was trying to be smart I would have taken cousins who went two picks later.

Stroud and love are long gone in my league. 

Tannehill and Zach Wilson are like the two best options so I'm definitely riding with Howell.

Although someone right now us really trying to unload burrow, I might be able to get him on a flyer hoping he can turn this season around. 

3 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Bad juju to start Howell in any game. You'll doom us all.

I've been contemplating the dark magic angle of this decision all day.

Lol.

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4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I think he's waiting till the absolute last second to try to make a big throw downfield, which I respect, but sometimes its better to just take off and run, especially when the first down is there for the taking.

 

That and he needs to slide more. That hit he took this past Sunday on that big red zone run had me scared.

 

It's a balance. He's trying to find it.

 

You dont want him to drop his eyes and run every time his first read is not there or feels any pressure - but you also dont want him standing there waiting on something that is just not there and taking sacks. He's had 5 NFL starts - whether he makes it to be a top 10 type QB will depend to a large extent on if he can reduce the number of sacks he's taking without it impacting his ability to make plays in the passing game. 

 

When he does run I agree with you, he's got to protect himself more. He has to start thinking "I'm the franchise' - unless he is selling out for a TD or key first down get down or get out of bounds before contact!

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Thank god we dodged this bullet. Scumbag.

May be an image of 2 people, people playing football, football helmet, ball, stadium and text that says '366 SPORTS 366 Sports 32 BREAKING #Browns HC Kevin Stefanski said QB Deshaun Watson was medically cleared to play yesterday. Watson felt like he couldn' and sat out. It was completely his call. The Browns lost 28-3. CATOR'

Fully. Guranteed. Contract.

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