The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If Baker is healthy, I can't imagine any way he doesn't win the job.  I don't remember, did Darnold get hurt last year and that's why they signed Cam?  Or was he just THAT bad?   

 

Btw, I have an idea:  Let's cut TH and bring in Cam to be the 3rd string QB.  He knows the offense, he knows he won't be the starter, and he and Ron are buds. And while his physical skills have diminished, they have not diminished to the level that TH's have improved.  He STILL has a better arm, and might be as much if not more of a run threat.  He would be a good locker room presence, and if the media is right and Wentz is a putz, he's a better short-term solution than TH or Howell.   

 

(For those of you with a broken sarcasm (or maybe satire?) radar, that was sarcasm (or maybe satire?). There is ONE particular poster who this disclaimer was specifically created for, but to protect the guilty, his name will be withheld. Though it's possible up to 3 posters would fall into this trap.  Hindsight being 20/20, I should have left this off to see which numbskull fell into the pit of despair. I guess I'm too much of a kind soul and protecting them from themselves. )

 

Had you left that last part off, I guarantee you there would have been at least 14 people who thought you were being serious lol...Heinicke lovers/haters, Newton lovers/haters, and those who need to replace the batteries in their sarcasm detectors.

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Had you left that last part off, I guarantee you there would have been at least 14 people who thought you were being serious lol...Heinicke lovers/haters, Newton lovers/haters, and those who need to replace the batteries in their sarcasm detectors.

The disclaimer?

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I’m assuming you mean me? Since YES there are times I’ve missed peoples sarcasm on here (cut me some slack it’s the internet) HOWEVER even I didn’t think you were being serious with that idea, since almost everyone here would never think it’s a good one  

There is no way he meant you.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The disclaimer?

 

If that's the part in parenthesis then yes lol...

[Voice_of_Reason]

28 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

If that's the part in parenthesis then yes lol...

Eh, I don't think 14.  I certainly think I would have gotten a few thought.   If @Cooleyfan1993 didn't fall for it, I think it was pretty clearly sarcastic.

 

On the flip side... I know one hive member (who hasn't posted in here in a while) who if he saw it would go nuts.  

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is no way he meant you.

CLEARLY NOT.  

 

Not at all.

 

Well....

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Eh, I don't think 14.  I certainly think I would have gotten a few thought.   If @Cooleyfan1993 didn't fall for it, I think it was pretty clearly sarcastic.

 

On the flip side... I know one hive member (who hasn't posted in here in a while) who if he saw it would go nuts.  

 

Your memory is faulty on the reaction of Newton possibly coming here lol...a lot of "Hell no" responses but also a number of enthusiastic posts for signing him. Plus, some who "hate" Heinicke would fall for it because they take the stance of Heinicke's weak arm would completely hamstring the offense if Wentz goes out for more than a quarter. We already have a number of people here who are convinced Howell should be #2 and Heinicke should be cut. So it's more than just TH "lovers" who would see your post as being real. It would have triggered a number of different factions lol...

[Voice_of_Reason]

Back on topic, our good friend Thom Lovero (aka squeaky) was on the Galdi Podcast and squeaked about a lot of things.

 

But his biggest "stir the pot" squeak was he said he was predicting a Carson Wentz meltdown because of leadership issues in the locker room by (I think he said) week 7, and the locker room and the fans were all going to be clamoring for Taylor Heinicke, because everybody, the fans and the locker room, loved Taylor Heinicke. And they are going to hate Wentz because ... well, he just assumes they will because everybody in Philly and Indy did.  (which isn't really true, but let's go with it.)

 

So he predicted a locker room meltdown over TH not starting over Wentz by mid-season.  

 

I gotta say, I find that to be ... 

 

 

It is the type of hard hitting journalism I've come to expect from Thom these days.  Who can, at times, be humorous, but really, is nothing else other than a caricature of himself at this point.  

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Your memory is faulty on the reaction of Newton possibly coming here lol...a lot of "Hell no" responses but also a number of enthusiastic posts for signing him. Plus, some who "hate" Heinicke would fall for it because they take the stance of Heinicke's weak arm would completely hamstring the offense if Wentz goes out for more than a quarter. We already have a number of people here who are convinced Howell should be #2 and Heinicke should be cut. So it's more than just TH "lovers" who would see your post as being real. It would have triggered a number of different factions lol...

There may have been a small handful of people who were on board for Cam, but there certainly wasn't any enthusiasm and it was only because Heinicke sucked so hard.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Back on topic, our good friend Thom Lovero (aka squeaky) was on the Galdi Podcast and squeaked about a lot of things.

 

 

"Squeaky" lol...

 

WRs tend to only get vocal in the locker room when the starting QB isn't giving them chances to make plays--John Beck comes to mind, the WRs stuck up for Grossman starting again even though he started stinking up the field. He was at least giving the receivers a chance to make plays and make the offense more potent. Wentz and even Heinicke both fit that description--CW more than TH due to arm strength alone, but he also has no fear of going downfield or of tight windows. TH had the "**** it, Terry's down there somewhere" mentality, which WRs love. So I don't in any way see the players clamoring for Heinicke because he's not really gonna give the offense anything that Wentz isn't already giving it, outside of maybe a better understanding of the scheme.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There may have been a small handful of people who were on board for Cam, but there certainly wasn't any enthusiasm and it was only because Heinicke sucked so hard.

 

1. That's why I said 14 people lol...

2. Many of those who liked the idea of Newton being signed liked it before Heinicke even joined the team. So it has nothing to do with him.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Warhead36]

I'm sure after Wentz has his first stinker of a game there will be a small subsect of fans that will be screaming for Heinicke, but these kind of idiots exist in almost every fan base. 

[NewCliche21]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

"Squeaky" lol...

 

WRs tend to only get vocal in the locker room when the starting QB isn't giving them chances to make plays--John Beck comes to mind, the WRs stuck up for Grossman starting again even though he started stinking up the field <snip>

 

Yeah, god, remember Beck's 10-sack game against the Bills?  I'll take "**** it I'm going deep" over "Oh **** I'm going down" as a receiver any day.

36 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm sure after Wentz has his first stinker of a game there will be a small subsect of fans that will be screaming for Heinicke, but these kind of idiots exist in almost every fan base. 

 

You kidding me? These guys will have dual computers going on like newspapers prior to the interwebs on election night.

"WENTZ SUCKS!" and  "I KNEW WENTZ WAS THE BEST!" on separate computers, ready to hit submit.

And then my dumbass with "DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN!"

[Conn]

The Narrative needs its daily feeding

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

WRs tend to only get vocal in the locker room when the starting QB isn't giving them chances to make plays--John Beck comes to mind, the WRs stuck up for Grossman starting again even though he started stinking up the field. He was at least giving the receivers a chance to make plays and make the offense more potent. Wentz and even Heinicke both fit that description--CW more than TH due to arm strength alone, but he also has no fear of going downfield or of tight windows. TH had the "**** it, Terry's down there somewhere" mentality, which WRs love. So I don't in any way see the players clamoring for Heinicke because he's not really gonna give the offense anything that Wentz isn't already giving it, outside of maybe a better understanding of the scheme.

More the issue I had with the point is I think the whole "the locker room loved him" and "the fans adored him" is a bit over-blown.  Was there a lot of respect for the guy who came in and gave it his all? Yeah, I'm sure.  

 

Does that mean the locker room is going to be clamoring for a guy who ended up as one of the worst statistical QBs of the year last year?  I don't think so.  

 

And Squeaky also said it was going to be locker room issues because Wentz couldn't relate to guys.  The only way the team is going to want a QB change is if Wentz is on pace to match Winston's INT total from a few years ago of 30.  In all of his seasons except for 2020, I believe, Wentz has had single digit turnovers.  So, while that COULD happen, it seems somewhat unlikely also.

 

Squeaky is just stirring the pot because there are a lot of people who either believe this is going to fail, or actively want it to fail.  And he's playing up the TH side for reasons only known to him.

 

Remember, he was the guy who was on the John Beck train. Not really because he believed in John Beck but because he wanted to needle the Shanahans.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

90% of the QBs would take the player leaking out to the offensive left, who is basically open short.  It would be a completion for sure.  And probably tackled immediately by the closing safety.  I can't tell who it is, but he was lined up off the LOS, blocked for a second, then released into the flat. It looks like some version of a cover-3 shell, with the CBs up, and the (I think) mike LB drops to cover the deep middle of the field.  The safety to the left drops also, but keeps his eyes on the QB.  (It's clearly zone).  

 

So, when the inside receiver releases to the flat, the mike has dropped to cover the deep middle, the CBs have gone with the outside WRs.  Which leaves the guy in the flat open.  But, there is no way he's getting the first down with at least 1, and probably 2 defenders closing in on him.  

 

Wentz also has a player on the offensive right who comes free after blocking, I think it's the TE.  Blocks and then releases (after the guy on the left), and is "open." But very shallow, and there are defenders in the area.  

 

Important to note, this is 3rd and 13.

 

You can't say for sure, but if Wentz took either "layup" throws in this situation, the Colts are punting.  Kirk (I'm a little more process oriented) takes a dumpoff rather than attempting that throw.  My gut tells me he goes almost immediately to the guy on the offensive left, gets, ~9 yards, and they are in 4th and 4 and they punt.

 

Alex takes the dumpoff, and probably does the same thing, going to the guy on the offensive left.  And they are punting. 

 

There is no world we live in where TH can make the throw, Wentz ended up making, it would have landed 10-20 yards short.  He might have tried to run, or buy time, or something.  But chances are the only throw which is actually available to him is the guy to the short right, because the deep throw isn't one he can make, and the one to the left I think is also probably out of his range.  If he threw it to the left, the defender would close and meet the ball at the receiver.  (Which we saw a whole lot.)

 

Wentz can make that throw.

 

And herein lies my issue with "taking the layup" vs. "hero ball."  I WANT my QB to play hero ball on 3rd and 13.  I'll take the good with the bad on that.

 

Is that going to mean he might miss a few "layups" along the way because he's looking deep?  Yeah.  It also means he will hit more deep passes.  I can live with that.  

 

But that has to be the offensive philosophy from the start.  If your philosophy is to play conservative and take the 8 yards, punt and play defense, then that's fine, you have to make sure everybody is bought in that's what you're going to do.  And you call the game differently also.  

 

I DON'T want them to play that way.  Attack success.  

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

There is no world we live in where TH can make the throw, Wentz ended up making, it would have landed 10-20 yards short.  He might have tried to run, or buy time, or something.  But chances are the only throw which is actually available to him is the guy to the short right, because the deep throw isn't one he can make, and the one to the left I think is also probably out of his range.  If he threw it to the left, the defender would close and meet the ball at the receiver.  (Which we saw a whole lot.)

 

Wentz can make that throw.

 

And herein lies my issue with "taking the layup" vs. "hero ball."  I WANT my QB to play hero ball on 3rd and 13.  I'll take the good with the bad on that.

 

 

 

Keim sort of hits this point in a soft way which is Wentz isn't following Peyton Manning, Luck or even Rivers here.  This team if I recall is dead last in QBR since Kirk left.  We've been dealing with crumbs.

 

Wentz as a pure talent aside from RG3 and Jeff George (though George was a bad dude and RG3 was fragile) might be the most talented QB we've had since Sonny J.   And that's a big deal.  

Edited July 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Does that mean the locker room is going to be clamoring for a guy who ended up as one of the worst statistical QBs of the year last year?  I don't think so.  

 

 

I really don't think players let last season's stats dictate how they feel about a teammate.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Keim sort of hits this point in a soft way which is Wentz isn't following Peyton Manning, Luck or even Rivers here.  This team if I recall is dead last in QBR since Kirk left.  We've been dealing with crumbs.

 

Wentz as a pure talent aside from RG3 and Jeff George (though George was a bad dude and RG3 was fragile) might be the most talented QB we've had since Sonny J.   And that's a big deal.  

 

 

More talented than Theismann, you think?...

Edited July 21, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Voice_of_Reason]

37 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

I really don't think players let last season's stats dictate how they feel about a teammate.

Ok put another way, do you think Terrybis going to be clamoring for the guy who put him in the blue concussion test 3 times? 
 

I think not.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

39 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

More talented than Theismann, you think?...

Wentz has more physical talent than Joe.  He’s bigger, stronger, has a bigger arm. 
 

Joe was more accurate.  But also played in a very different era.  
 

Interetingly, this year Wentz will play in an offense similar-ish to the offense Joe played in. At the very least it will be a numbered based Coryell based system which Gibbs used, and is also the basis of the Turner system.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

38 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Wentz has more physical talent than Joe.  He’s bigger, stronger, has a bigger arm. 
 

Joe was more accurate.  But also played in a very different era.  
 

Interetingly, this year Wentz will play in an offense similar-ish to the offense Joe played in. At the very least it will be a numbered based Coryell based system which Gibbs used, and is also the basis of the Turner system.  

 

I would also say that Joe was more athletic. Wentz can scramble, Joe returned punts lol...

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Ok put another way, do you think Terrybis going to be clamoring for the guy who put him in the blue concussion test 3 times? 
 

I think not.  

 

Fact check: Terry had 1 concussion last year and it was caused by gravity instead. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Fact check: Terry had 1 concussion last year and it was caused by gravity instead. 

Fact check:  he ended up in that tent 3 times and the gravity one was because the ball was late and behind him and he had to do a contortion routine to get his hands on the ball. 
 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

25 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Fact check: Terry had 1 concussion last year and it was caused by gravity instead. 

 

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Fact check:  he ended up in that tent 3 times and the gravity one was because the ball was late and behind him and he had to do a contortion routine to get his hands on the ball. 
 

 

 

 

 

Fact check: I feel like we're playing with karma here lol..."Heinicke causes Terry to get concussions" feels like a "challenge accepted!" moment for fate, and he'll get a concussion with Wentz throwing the ball too high/too far behind him/too something, just so that the football gods can make a point lol.

 

So I'm counter-balancing both you guyses' posts by saying "Concussions are part of the game, here's hoping Terry doesn't have any this year."

 

 

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

 

 

Fact check: I feel like we're playing with karma here lol..."Heinicke causes Terry to get concussions" feels like a "challenge accepted!" moment for fate, and he'll get a concussion with Wentz throwing the ball too high/too far behind him/too something, just so that the football gods can make a point lol.

 

So I'm counter-balancing both you guyses' posts by saying "Concussions are part of the game, here's hoping Terry doesn't have any this year."

 

My exact point. It doesn't matter who the QB is - **** happens. Wentz accuracy is a concern and so this could actually happen but hope not. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

My exact point. It doesn't matter who the QB is - **** happens. Wentz accuracy is a concern and so this could actually happen but hope not. 

 

Yeah, but you were also basically saying Heinicke's passes played no role...to me, that means karma is gonna make it so that Heinicke ends up in a game due to Wentz being injured (even if just for a quarter) and one of his passes DOES lead to a concussion for Terry lol...so I'm sprinkling around some holy water to scare off the spirits.

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated