The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

Dang man, Rex Ryan struck out on both his predictions about Sean Payton and Tom Brady.

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Dang man, Rex Ryan struck out on both his predictions about Sean Payton and Tom Brady.

It was such a garbage take. There was no factual basis for it. Typical ESPN blowhard stuff.

 

 

Anyways regarding the Bucs, that's another team that'll be in the market for a veteran QB. They're still very much in win now mode and will make a play for someone like Carr, Rodgers etc.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

It would have been pretty bad to see a 46 year old (47?) quarterback come in here that has been declining year to year and watch him struggle in this organization. Yes. 

 

 

 

3 points.  And I mean it all in good spirits.  

 

A.  His version of a bad season mind you with the worst running game in the league (dead last and by a good margin) to support him, would still be the 2nd best season in the history of the franchise as to yards, almost 5000.  The whole franchise history -- 2nd best.   67% completion rate and about a 3:1 TD- as a dude in "decline". 

 

And some here make apples to apples comparisons with that to Brunell, McNabb or name that other veteran QB we landed.   Those dudes in their best seasons at the peak of their powers never matched Brady's declining year let alone it being apples to apples that its the version of these dudes in decline.     Those dudes would be happy to have a career year that matched Brady's "decline" let alone it feels like the same as how these guys played at the tail end of their careers.

 

B.  The idea that he'd even want to come here let alone we'd be have the high horse to reject him if he did I find funny.  I didn't engage much in this debate inspite of some one really pushing it hard on this thread because I found the whole thing unrealsitic.  Not because I thought Rivera would reject the idea.  But because Brady wouldn't even remotely entertain it.  And lol, I annoyed the person who actually pushed the Brady idea here by making the point its unrealsitic.

 

C.  Sheehan-Loverro summed up in the last podcast a point I've made and some others here and talked about in in the context of Sean Payton and Brady.  This organization is on life support and badly needs some relevance to get some fans.   We are like the Jaguars of 5-10 years ago.  A boring team, lacking star power and national relevance and yes still bleeding fans. 

 

Whomever takes over this team after paying the amount of money he does is unlikely going to love the idea of being dead last in fan attendance this coming year.   If I recall local TV ratings close to the bottom of the league, etc.   The idea that he is going to do something to try to juice things up seems almost a given.  If they do something like that, while I think Brady would have been off the table, in theory it was a good scenario for me. 

 

To say he's a national star would be an understatement.  So it would give them national relevance for the first time in 10 years.  And Brady wouldn't cost a pick.  And its likely just a one year rental.  And it wouldn't be expensive.  And Brady doesn't do "suck".  He didn't do suck last year either.  Yeah he had some bad games in the mix but almost every QB does.   And actually having a real running game would likely have helped which he didn't have last year.

 

So in summary, no I don't think we dodged a bullet here.   We'd have been lucky to have him IMO but no way do I think he'd want to come. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

Brady's retirement hurts in the way that it takes another QB off the market.

If he didn't hang 'em up, he was likely moving on from the Bucs so they were already players in the new QB market, no real change there.

 

 

I think this hurts Vegas the most b/c everybody was linking Brady to them. What do they do now? Could have major ramifications if they go out and do something big.

Edited February 1, 2023 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, FootballZombie said:

Brady's retirement hurts in the way that it takes another QB off the market.

If he didn't hang 'em up, he was likely moving on from the Bucs so they were already players in the new QB market, so no real change there.

 

 

I think this hurts Vegas the most b/c everybody was linking Brady to them. What do they do now? Could have major ramifications if they go out and do something big.

 

ESPN did scenarios with QBs on the market.  Keim kicked in with our situation.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35553112/simulating-nfl-quarterback-offseason-change-projections-trade-offers-free-agent-signings-draft-picks-2023

 

Taylor Heinicke

2022 team: Commanders

Commanders' offer: One year, $6 million ($3.5 million guaranteed). We will have a $3 million signing bonus and per-game roster bonuses up to $250,000 for the season. Heinicke knows the players and works well with the team's other QB (Sam Howell), and the town loves him. -- John Keim

HEINICKE'S DECISION: Accept the Commanders' offer. It's the only one he got here, and he likes it here. Heinicke could probably start six or seven games when something inevitably goes wrong, too. -- Dan Graziano

The Commanders' aftermath: Washington wants to give Howell a shot to be the starter, but Heinicke provides insurance, especially if it continues with a similar system. It's a one-year deal, and with uncertainty about ownership, there's no reason to push money into the future on a backup QB. Heinicke likes Howell quite a bit, so he'd be fine backing him up or starting if necessary. -- Keim

 

 

Andy Dalton

2022 team: Saints

Saints' offer: One year, $10 million (fully guaranteed). The Saints missed out on other free agent targets, so Dalton would be the assumed starter going into this season. He gets a chance to come back to a place he has said he really enjoyed -- and he could be the starter at a stage in his career when he's a journeyman. -- Katherine Terrell

DALTON'S DECISION: Accept the Saints' offer. It's the only offer on the table, and Dalton is the expected starter? I'll take it. -- Dan Graziano

The Saints' aftermath: This might not thrill Saints fans hoping for a change, but general manager Mickey Loomis spoke recently about needing to get "back to the middle" on the salary-cap situation. For now, that means they have to sit back and watch other teams outbid them on the top free agent quarterbacks. They don't seem to be leaning toward major changes this offseason and are keeping offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael in the fold, so it would make sense to try to give him and Dalton another go together and use the extra money toward adding offensive help in free agency. -- Terrell

 

 

Jacoby Brissett

2022 team: Browns

Falcons' offer: One year, $5 million ($2 million guaranteed). It would include a $1 million signing bonus, plus incentives up to $3 million for playing time and team success. Brissett can compete for the starting job with Desmond Ridder and have a chance to hit free agency again in 2024. -- Michael Rothstein

BRISSETT'S DECISION: No deal. Brissett would likely wait this one out, since he can likely do better by being patient and seeing if a team's situation changes and offers him more. Brissett's performance in 2022 merits more than this; he was eighth in QBR (59.8). -- Dan Graziano

 

 

AFTERMATH

There are still some unsigned starter possibilities, including Jacoby Brissett, Mike White and Baker Mayfield. The Falcons, having waited out the cycle of quarterback movement, still have their offer to Brissett, which would allow him to compete for the job there if he wants. The Cardinals might be looking to add, depending on when Kyler Murray is expected to return from a torn right ACL. Perhaps a team might look to sign Cooper Rush, Drew Lock or Jarrett Stidham as high-end backups who could spot-start, too. And don't forget about Rounds 3-7 in the draft, where the likes of Tanner McKee, Jaren Hall and Jake Haener should be available. But the dust has mostly settled here for our exercise. Here's the full QB landscape.

How The QB Offseason Simulation Played Out: Projected Starters/Starting Options

TEAM	2023 QB VIA SIMULATION	TEAM	2023 QB VIA SIMULATION
ARI	Kyler Murray	LAC	Justin Herbert
ATL	Desmond Ridder	LAR	Matthew Stafford
BAL	Lamar Jackson	LV	Jimmy Garoppolo
BUF	Josh Allen	MIA	Tua Tagovailoa
CAR	Sam Darnold Will Levis	MIN	Kirk Cousins
CHI	Justin Fields	NE	Mac Jones
CIN	Joe Burrow	NO	Andy Dalton Hendon Hooker
CLE	Deshaun Watson	NYG	Daniel Jones
DAL	Dak Prescott	NYJ	Derek Carr Zach Wilson
DEN	Russell Wilson	PHI	Jalen Hurts
DET	Jared Goff	PIT	Kenny Pickett Mitch Trubisky
GB	Aaron Rodgers	SEA	Geno Smith
HOU	C.J. Stroud	SF	Brock Purdy Trey Lance
IND	Jameis Winston Bryce Young	TB	Blaine Gabbert Anthony Richardson
JAX	Trevor Lawrence	TEN	Ryan Tannehill Malik Willis
KC	Patrick Mahomes	WSH	Sam Howell Taylor Heinicke

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

ESPN did scenarios with QBs on the market.  Keim kicked in with our situation.

 

 

I'd bash that harder than I bashed the Wentz move last year, and I let them have it from day 1 for how monumentally stupid that trade was and how the media's "point and laugh" narrative was the correct one.

 

This would be worse. Erect the three ring circus worse.

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

3 points.  And I mean it all in good spirits.  

 

A.  His version of a bad season mind you with the worst running game in the league (dead last and by a good margin) to support him, would still be the 2nd best season in the history of the franchise as to yards, almosy 5000.  The whole franchise history -- 2nd best.   67% completion rate and about a 3:1 TD- as a dude in "decline". 

 

And some here make apples to apples comparisons with that to Brunell, McNabb or name that other veteran QB we landed.   Those dudes in their best seasons at the peak of their powers never matched Brady's declining year let alone it being apples to apples that its the version of these dudes in decline.     Those dudes would be happy to have a career year that matched Brady's "decline" let alone it feels like the same as how these guys played at the tail end of their careers.

 

B.  The idea that he'd even want to come here let alone we'd be have the high horse to reject him if he did I find funny.  I didn't engage much in this debate inspite of some one really pushing it hard on this thread because I found the whole thing unrealsitic.  Not because I thought Rivera would reject the idea.  But because Brady wouldn't even remotely entertain it.  And lol, I annoyed the person who actually pushed the Brady idea here by making the point its unrealsitic.

 

C.  Sheehan-Loverro summed up in the last podcast a point I've made and some others here and talked about in in the context of Sean Payton and Brady.  This organization is on life support and badly needs some relevance to get some fans.   We are like the Jaguars of 5-10 years ago.  A boring team, lacking star power and national relevance and yes still bleeding fans. 

 

Whomever takes over this team after paying the amount of money he does is unlikely going to love the idea of being dead last in fan attendance this coming year.   If I recall local TV ratings close to the bottom of the league, etc.   The idea that he is going to do something to try to juice things up seems almost a given.  If they do something like that, while I think Brady would have been off the table, in theory it was a good scenario for me. 

 

To say he's a national star would be an understatement.  So it would give them national relevance for the first time in 10 years.  And Brady wouldn't cost a pick.  And its likely just a one year rental.  And it wouldn't be expensive.  And Brady doesn't do "suck".  He didn't do suck last year either.  Yeah he had some bad games in the mix but almost every QB does.   And actually having a real running game would likely have helped which he didn't have last year.

 

So in summary, no I don't think we dodged a bullet here.   We'd have been lucky to have him IMO but no way do I think he'd want to come. 

I absolutely think we dodged a bullet. One year rental who was declining (but also didn’t have great support), back but wrong Howell again, just to guarantee at worst mediocrity and a mid draft pick again.

 

Not how I’d do it. 
 

To be clear, I’m not arguing Brady being an upgrade to our situation, even in decline. That’s not the point. It’s that we have a guy that could develop… why throw Brady in? If Howell performs we’re looking solid. If Howell doesn’t we will probably be in play for a high pick in 24. And considering this is a lame duck regime that is the correct play. 
 

And yea, to your point, Brady was never coming here. 

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I absolutely think we dodged a bullet. One year rental who was declining (but also didn’t have great support), back but wrong Howell again, just to guarantee at worst mediocrity and a mid draft pick again.

 

Not how I’d do it. 
 

To be clear, I’m not arguing Brady being an upgrade to our situation, even in decline. That’s not the point. It’s that we have a guy that could develop… why throw Brady in? If Howell performs we’re looking solid. If Howell doesn’t we will probably be in play for a high pick in 24. And considering this is a lame duck regime that is the correct play. 
 

And yea, to your point, Brady was never coming here. 

 

My point was "decline" is relative.   For Brady it was a down year.   For this franchise his down year would have been one of the best QB performances in this franchise's history.    Far from Brunell part 2, etc.

 

I think Howell learning for one year under Brady wouldn't hurt his development.

 

And lol, part of me does care about this fan base declining, next generation, etc.  Been a fan for a long time, been going to games for over 20 years, just about every year multiple times.  It's sad to see what this franchise has become.  So I get the idea of giving some needed juice for a change.  If we stay on this path, at a minimum got little doubt we end up dead last in attendance in 2023 again.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My point was "decline" is relative.   For Brady it was a down year.   For this franchise his down year would have been one of the best QB performances in this franchise's history.    Far from Brunell part 2, etc.

 

I think Howell learning for one year under Brady wouldn't hurt his development.

 

And lol, part of me does care about this fan base declining, next generation, etc.  Been a fan for a long time, been going to games for over 20 years, just about every year multiple times.  It's sad to see what this franchise has become.  So I get the idea of giving some needed juice for a change.  If we stay on this path, at a minimum got little doubt we end up dead last in attendance in 2023 again.

 

 

A little juice is what leads up to 8-9, 9-8. 

 

No thanks. 

[shemp nixon]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My point was "decline" is relative.   For Brady it was a down year.   For this franchise his down year would have been one of the best QB performances in this franchise's history.    Far from Brunell part 2, etc.

 

I think Howell learning for one year under Brady wouldn't hurt his development.

 

And lol, part of me does care about this fan base declinng, next generation, etc.  Been a fan for a long time, been going to games for over 20 years, just about every year multiple times.  It's sad to see what this franchise has become.  So I get the idea of giving some needed juice for a change.  If we stay on this path, at a minimkum got little doubt we end up dead last in attendance in 2023.

 

I think Howell is at the point where he needs to play. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

A little juice is what leads up to 8-9, 9-8. 

 

No thanks. 

 

 

You helped bring another point.  I do think with O line upgrades this team can be a playoff team and actually win in the playoffs. 

 

If you can win 8 games with arguably the worst QB play in the league, I don't think Brady would simply match that bad Qb play which would mean he'd be the 30th-32nd best QB in the league next season.

 

I am more optmistic about Howell than most but it definitely can go bad, too.    Next season is a wild card.   In general, I'll bet on the wildcard in this context, what the heck.  If our team remains nationally irrelevant, end up dead last in attendance again, DMV kids continue to sign up with the Ravens -- it would be business as usual so not a big deal.

 

But I really doubt a new owner digesting what he just got into will think screw it, lets ride the team with arguably the most lack of pizzazz in the league and see where it goes.  I think he will make a move of some sort.  Brady to me would have been cheapish and temporary, I'd get it. 

 

What worries me is a more aggressive move of some sort that might be marketing wise sexy but team wise foolish in the context of expense.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

You helped bring another point.  I do think with O line upgrades this team can be a playoff team and actually win in the playoffs. 

 

If you can win 8 games with arguably the worst QB play in the league, I don't think Brady would simply match that bad Qb play which would mean he'd be the 30th-32nd best QB in the league next season.

 

I am more optmistic about Howell than most but it definitely can go bad, too.    Next season is a wild card.   In general, I'll bet on the wildcard in this context, what the heck.  If our team remains nationally irrelevant, end up dead last in attendance again, DMV kids continue to sign up with the Ravens -- it would be business as usual so not a big deal.

 

But I really doubt a new owner digesting what he just got into will think screw it, lets ride the team with arguably the most lack of pizzazz in the league and see where it goes.  I think he will make a move of some sort.  Brady to me would have been cheapish and temporary, I'd get it. 

 

What worries me is a more aggressive move of some sort that might be marketing wise sexy but team wise foolish in the context of expense.

 

Agree with concern for more aggressive moves.

 

Also not sure a new owner is here on time for anything. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, shemp nixon said:

I think Howell is at the point where he needs to play. 

 

I am in the Howell needs to be the guy even before it was cool to tout it.  But, I would make an exception for the GOAT.  That's is.  Simple as that. 

[kingdaddy]

17 minutes ago, shemp nixon said:

I think Howell is at the point where he needs to play. 

Based on other teams in the league and what they're doing with their young, handpicked QB's, in addition with how well Howell showed in his one game, I agree with you. Play the kid, commit to him, build the roster and plug holes with the money we save by rolling with Slingin Sammy Howell.

[mistertim]

Oof. Rough news for Purdy, I feel bad for him.

 

So that certainly means the Trey Lance trade scenario is dead now, though. 

[FootballZombie]

Sucks for Purdy

 

Who are some other QBs who had to get tommy johns? I'm curious about the recovery outlook.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Sucks for Purdy

 

Who are some other QBs who had to get tommy johns? I'm curious about the recovery outlook.

 

Jake Delhomme did in 2007. He was never any good after that, though he wasn't a great QB anyway so hard to say how much of a factor the surgery was.

Edited February 1, 2023 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Agree with concern for more aggressive moves.

 

Also not sure a new owner is here on time for anything. 

 

Hopefully Glazer is right and they are coming on soon.

 

Be really interested to see what they do when they come on board.  People like me and you and others here do not need to be galvanized.  We are sort of like the roaches who can survive the nuclear wars.  There is no beating us down.  

 

But to get the average fan back.  The ones who have checked out.  Or to change the dynamic like JP Finay talked about which is the young kids he sees in the DMV are wearing jerseys of other teams.  To stop the bleeding.  I doubt the new owner adapts a patient slow burn approach.  I am betting he tries to mix it up.  

Edited February 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

 

please respect my silence in this time of mourning over my unrealistic posting about a Brady/Bezos pairing 

[ntotoro]

BrayJayConegheyZos... ?

[Skinsinparadise]

I was wondering with the Purdy news if it would change their approach to Jimmy G.  Guessing Jimmy G to the Raiders.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35564252/senior-bowl-practice-2023-nfl-draft-best-quarterbacks-prospects-sleepers-risers-nuggets-know

 

Biggest takeaway from Day 2

 

I was really impressed with Fresno State quarterback Jake Haener and Michigan State receiver Jayden Reed in the first practice session. I love Haener's tape, and while he is undersized (6-foot, 208 pounds), every ball he threw on Wednesday was on the mark. Nothing phases him in the pocket. He showed really strong anticipation and an ability to change arm angles, and his confidence stood out. At one point, he climbed the pocket and rolled to his right to hit a receiver. And even though he completed the pass, Haener went right up the pass-catcher after the play to talk through where he wants him on those throws. Scouts love to see that stuff. He's one of those midround QBs that will be a solid backup but could potentially develop into a starter down the road in the NFL if he lands in the right system.

 

Todd McShay