The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinsmania123]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The point is that he uses his legs too much and in bad situations and/or uses them improperly and puts himself in a position to get hurt.

 

Your running should be a supplement to your passing, not a necessity to function.

He had just as many yards passing, meaning comparable to the top prospects.  Caleb Williams had 4,500, and he had 3,800. Maye had around 3500.  I have not checked the other QB's on running the ball, but he definitely had about 500 more in terms of yardage in running the ball then they did, if my memory is correct.  So, his running is not supplemental IMO to his passing.  

Edited April 11 by skinsmania123

[CommanderInTheRye]

After spending much of the early evening catching up on all the exciting and novel commentary on this thread, I'm reminded of a lecture my high school Latin teacher once gave on the difference and similarities in meaning and common usage between ad nauseam and ad infinitum. 😉

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, skinsmania123 said:

He had just as many yards passing, meaning comparable to the top prospects.  Caleb Williams had 4,500, and he had 3,800. Maye had around 3500.  I have not checked the other QB's on running the ball, but he definitely had about 500 more in terms of yardage in running the ball then they did, if my memory is correct.  So, his running is not supplemental IMO to his passing.  

Comparing college stats is foolish.

 

Dewey Haskins threw 50 TDs in college too. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

After spending much of the early evening catching up on all the exciting and novel commentary on this thread, I'm reminded of a lecture my high school Latin teacher once gave on the difference and similarities in meaning and common usage between ad nauseam and ad infinitum. 😉

I wouldn’t have to keep repeating myself, if people would stop making the same wrong arguments that I’ve already disproven.

Edited April 11 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[skinsmania123]

6 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Outside of Lamar (and JD ain’t Lamar) the quarterbacks who use their legs, predominantly do so to buy time and then beat you with their arms. His only game is to run.

That is not true. He threw for more yards than Maye, as a comparison.  Caleb threw for around 4,500 I believe and he threw for about 3,800.

[bh32]

Just now, skinsmania123 said:

That is not true. He threw for more yards than Maye, as a comparison.  Caleb threw for around 4,500 I believe and he threw for about 3,800.

College stats don't mean squat in the NFL

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, skinsmania123 said:

That is not true. He threw for more yards than Maye, as a comparison.  Caleb threw for around 4,500 I believe and he threw for about 3,800.

His only game when **** goes sideways is to run. He never avoids the rush, resets, and throws. He never escapes and throws on the run. He pulls down the ball, stops looking downfield, and takes off running. That is not going to work in the NFL. It’s going to get him killed.

Edited April 11 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[seantaylor=god]

This thread has jumped the shark and I fear it only will get worse lol

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Just now, seantaylor=god said:

This thread has jumped the shark

 

[skinsmania123]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

His only game when **** goes sideways is to run. He never avoids the rush, resets, and throws. He never escapes and throws on the run. He pulls down the ball, stops looking downfield, and takes off running. That is not going to work in the NFL. It’s going to get him killed.

I can't figure out how he had so many completions then. The guy won the Heisman. He had an amazing year, and I think it is transferable even though some on here actually said college stats don't matter. Yes, completions matter. The ability to use your legs in the modern NFL matters.  

 

I don't think he is going to get killed in the NFL. I think he will continue to make adjustments like rookies have to. I think the will pass the tests. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I can't figure out how he had so many completions then.

Because LSU designed an offense that allowed him to get the ball out really quick most of the time, and when he didn’t, a lot lot of times, his offensive line protected for him. But, whenever there was pressure he took off running. This is well established.

 

but in the NFL, he’s not gonna be able to get the ball out to his first read nearly as often and still be successful. He’s also not going to have the protection that he did. he doesn’t throw into tight windows and the windows are going to be even smaller. So in short, he is going to either have to learn how to play when conditions aren’t perfect (which heretofore, he has never demonstrated that he can) or be out of the league in short order.

Edited April 11 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[bh32]

2 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I can't figure out how he had so many completions then. The guy won the Heisman. He had an amazing year, and I think it is transferable even though some on here actually said college stats don't matter. Yes, completions matter. The ability to use your legs in the modern NFL matters.  

 

I don't think he is going to get killed in the NFL. I think he will continue to make adjustments like rookies have to. I think the will pass the tests. 

Heisman don't mean squat in the NFL either..list all the QB'S that won the Heisman and also won a SB.

[skinsmania123]

1 minute ago, bh32 said:

Heisman don't mean squat in the NFL either..list all the QB'S that won the Heisman and also won a SB.

Two and he will be the third.  Joe Montana is one. 

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

This thread has jumped the shark and I fear it only will get worse lol

Evergreen post 

[bh32]

2 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Two and he will be the third.  Joe Montana is one. 

Montana didn't win no Heisman...lol

[SkinsFTW]

6 minutes ago, bh32 said:

Heisman don't mean squat in the NFL either..list all the QB'S that won the Heisman and also won a SB.

 

Jim Plunkett is the last one.

 

That was back during the Lombardi days.

[skinsmania123]

2 minutes ago, bh32 said:

Montana didn't win no Heisman...lol

LOL! Your right do you know the two QB;'s that did?

3 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Jim Plunkett is the last one.

 

That was back during the Lombardi days.

And Roger Staubach I think.

[DogofWar1]

2 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I can't figure out how he had so many completions then. The guy won the Heisman. He had an amazing year, and I think it is transferable even though some on here actually said college stats don't matter. Yes, completions matter. The ability to use your legs in the modern NFL matters.  

 

I don't think he is going to get killed in the NFL. I think he will continue to make adjustments like rookies have to. I think the will pass the tests. 

 

So but here's something else to chew on.

 

If he adjusts, how much does that adjusting lower his ceiling.

 

If he gets out of bounds or slides earlier to avoid big hits, how much does the delta between him and Maye/JJ decrease in the mobility aspect?  And how does that change the totality of them as prospects?

 

And how long does he have to change his game before his current game catches up with him?  Can he make those changes quickly?  Dropping ones eyes because you learned to take off running for 5 years is a lot of muscle memory to retrain.  We hit Maye for not being pro ready because of his footwork, is Jayden thus not pro ready?  Sure, using your legs like that CAN result in better plays than having bad footwork, it will create a lot of positive-yard-plays but how long does it take to retrain and during that interim, how much more danger is he in?

 

Maybe the answer is, he flips a switch and instantly throws instead of running off, and when he does run he's protecting himself but he's still just racking up so many first downs we don't miss the 40% less yardage he gets per rush to help protect himself.

 

But you gotta analyze that with running QBs, because when the alternative is a prototypical QB who needs a little work but otherwise is everything you normally want in a QB prospect, you better have positive answers for the above questions.  The opportunity cost is large.

[bh32]

Just now, skinsmania123 said:

LOL! Your right do you know the two QB;'s that did?

Staubach and plunkett

7 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Two and he will be the third.  Joe Montana is one. 

Montana didn't win no Heisman...lol

Yet only staubach is in the HOF,so again Heisman don't mean squat in the NFL

[Warhead36]

28 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I can't figure out how he had so many completions then. 

He had two superstar WRs

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I turn 44 in a couple months and was starting to give up hope of ever being drafted but now I figure that since I could have led Michigan to a bowl game, I should be considered for at least a late round pick.

[skinsmania123]

4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

So but here's something else to chew on.

 

If he adjusts, how much does that adjusting lower his ceiling.

 

If he gets out of bounds or slides earlier to avoid big hits, how much does the delta between him and Maye/JJ decrease in the mobility aspect?  And how does that change the totality of them as prospects?

 

And how long does he have to change his game before his current game catches up with him?  Can he make those changes quickly?  Dropping ones eyes because you learned to take off running for 5 years is a lot of muscle memory to retrain.  We hit Maye for not being pro ready because of his footwork, is Jayden thus not pro ready?  Sure, using your legs like that CAN result in better plays than having bad footwork, it will create a lot of positive-yard-plays but how long does it take to retrain and during that interim, how much more danger is he in?

 

Maybe the answer is, he flips a switch and instantly throws instead of running off, and when he does run he's protecting himself but he's still just racking up so many first downs we don't miss the 40% less yardage he gets per rush to help protect himself.

 

But you gotta analyze that with running QBs, because when the alternative is a prototypical QB who needs a little work but otherwise is everything you normally want in a QB prospect, you better have positive answers for the above questions.  The opportunity cost is large.

One of the reasons that Daniel's won the Heisman was his pass completion rate.  Also, when you look at the number of yards he threw, as I have said in other posts, the yards were comparable to both Williams and Maye.  So, it is not as though he can't complete passes accurately and just takes off. That is just not true. 

 

But he has used his legs more because he is a dual-threat QB, and they designed plays for him. He will have to make some adjustments.  I really do not think it is going to take a long time. He can rely on his ability to pass and to be accurate. This is why I think we really need to pick up a big, bodied receiver and an excellent TE receiver. And I think he would be great with Terry and Jahan.  I really think this guy can be coached up. Some QB's can't. 

 

One concern I have is the strength of our O line. If it is not substantially better than it was for Howell, and we draft Daniels forget it. He would develop so many bad habits, all the concerns you are raising will happen.  But they already added some pieces, and they will add more through the draft. 

 

I think we could run a very fast offense with him. He is ahead of some of the other prospects, and yes, he has played longer in college, and right now that is a plus.  So, his development is key. That to me is the most important element for any young QB who comes into the league.  I think we have the coaches to get the most out of him and ensure longevity if he listens. 

[BMagic]

55 minutes ago, illone said:

 

Makes me wish I had access to the “ncaa all-22”. It’s very tough to obtain. 
 

QB school gets some clicks but you’re exactly right especially when it comes to main stream media. 

Caddy's Cutups is a great resource, but it's on Patreon and full game tapes aren't free.

 

https://www.patreon.com/CaddysCutups

[skinsmania123]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

He had two superstar WRs

I am going to say your 100% correct about that. But you still have to get the ball them in stride.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

One of the reasons that Daniel's won the Heisman was his pass completion rate.  Also, when you look at the number of yards he threw, as I have said in other posts, the yards were comparable to both Williams and Maye.  So, it is not as though he can't complete passes accurately and just takes off. That is just not true. 

His passing game in college is not going to work in the NFL. He doesn’t throw into tight windows. He can’t go through progressions unless he gets perfect protection. He has no answer to pressure except to pull the ball down and run. These are all serious problems in the pros.