The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I'll give you one thing. When you have your mancrush you go HARD. First it was Daniels, now it's McCarthy. 

Daniels was always my second qb behind Caleb, now after watching a lot of McCarthy and listening to what all the film reviewers are saying, he is right there with Daniels, but still behind Caleb. He might even be my second favorite ahead of Daniels just because of his arm strength. Both McCarthy and Caleb are very nimble and elusive in the pocket, and have great pocket awareness, the way that they can avoid free rushers and create the space and time to make a throw are amazing, and they are both deadly accurate on the move. Both are very accurate in the pocket as well with great ball placement and both have strong arms. Exactly what you want in the modern day NFL
 

While I do like Daniels a lot, he was never a draft crush of mine, it’s been Caleb for me, And now McCarthy as well. However I did defend Daniels against people that were making up their own narratives against him that were unproven and had zero statistical or film related points to stand on. Mainly that he was not a good passer, was injury prone, had a weak arm, didn’t go through his reads, couldn’t throw over the middle, couldn’t make tight window throws, couldn’t throw with anticipation, and was a run first qb. All of which were false narratives.

 

Just because I defended him against people putting holes in his game that simply are not there doesn’t mean that I have a draft crush on him. 
 

With McCarthy, Caleb, and Daniels you don’t see any glaring holes in their game, and that really helps me to feel safer picking any of them over Maye, who has shown to have a tendency to be very inconsistent and inaccurate at times.

 

While Mayes boom factor might be almost as high as Caleb’s, and I’ll admit, is higher than Daniels, based on arm strength and his willingness to force throws into very tight windows, sometimes as a detriment I might add, and his pure physical abilities and ability to scramble. I’d say McCarthy has just as high of a boom potential.

 

Mayes bust factor is higher than the other 3, because he struggles being consistently accurate, consistently making the right decisions, he struggles to go threw his reads, and he struggles with diagnosing everything presnap.

 

While he was able to overcome a lot of that in college due to his amazing ability to move so well for such a big man, and his amazing arm strength, that’s not going to be the same in the pros. Merrill Hodge went as far as to saying “you can’t fix stupid” when it comes to coaching Mayes problems pre snap and dissecting the play and making the right read during the play out of him. He also said Maye is the type of player to “get a coach and his GM fired, thinking they can coach inaccuracy out of him”.

 

Now I trust our coaches and GM and if they think that Maye is the guy based on his upper echelon traits, and physical abilities, that I can honestly say will be elite on his very first day in the league, and truly believe that they can coach him up than by all means run the pick up and pick Maye. Your not going to find another guy with his raw size, arm strength, and physical abilities very often coming out of college, he is a unicorn from that standpoint, and usually if there is someone, they have even more holes in their game than Maye, ala Mitch Trubisky/Trey Lance.

 

Let’s face it, if they are able to fix his inaccuracy issues, and his inconsistencies in diagnosing and making the right reads pre and post snap, then he has everything you want and need to be a top 5 Qb in the league for 10-15 years, whereas Daniels can probably top out in that 5-15th best QB range for about 7 or 8 years until his legs start to slow down, then he’d at best be middle of the pack for the rest of his career. With Daniels, the contender window will probably open up sooner, but with Maye, it will last a lot longer, possibly his whole career if they booth boom and reach their maximum potential.
 

 

[rumplestilskin]

17 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

A lot of great athletes are not humble; just saying. 

That may be true but if you look into it deeply most Winners have some humility in their personalities. 

[Warhead36]

21 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

 

Mayes bust factor is higher than the other 3, because he struggles being consistently accurate, consistently making the right decisions, he struggles to go threw his reads, and he struggles with diagnosing everything presnap.

 

 

 

This is like 90% wrong lolol

[mistertim]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

This is like 90% wrong lolol

 

Yeah, he complains in his post about people making stuff up about Daniels, then literally turns around and does the exact same thing with Maye. 

[Dah-Dee]

It's fun watching all these QB prospects come up with slightly different ways to say the same nice thing about every team they interview with.

 

Of course, can't really blame them for being starstruck with the road show Commanders sent:

 

Harris:

 

 

Quinn:

 

 

Kingsbury:

 

 

Peters:

 

 

 

[SoCalSkins]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Going to be very interesting to see how Caleb’s stint at the podium goes.

What he says to Chicago behind closed door is far more important. 
 

Here is a preview:

 

Bears GM: Who do you model yourself after?

Caleb: John Elway and Eli Manning. This concludes this interview. ✌️ 

[mac8887]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah, he complains in his post about people making stuff up about Daniels, then literally turns around and does the exact same thing with Maye. 

Have you not seen the Merril Hodge review, or the  Benkert review, im not making this up, this is coming from people that actually played in the league. I can post the links, but don’t feel the need to because they’ve been posted and talked about on this thread already. And out of the 4 top qbs the only one that you hear any consistent talk of processing problems in their play is Maye. If he goes #2 it’ll be because of his physical tools, not because he is a great processor of the game.

Edited March 1 by mac8887

[BayouBrave86]

Just don’t see it with McCarthy. He is Daniel Jones 2.0. A game manager, nothing less nothing more. I pity whatever team trades up and drafts him. I’d take Penix or Nix over JJ.

Edited March 1 by BayouBrave86

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Have you not seen the Merril Hodge review, or the  Benkert review, im not making this up, this is coming from people that actually played in the league. 

 

This tells me everything I need to know about how you "evaluate". You find a couple of rando twitter people who don't like him, then hang your hat on their every word.

 

There are twitter people who say Daniels is closer to a 2nd round talent. I don't harp on them. Why? Because it's a stupid take. Just like Benkert who said Maye was basically Mason Rudolph with a lesser arm.

 

So dumb.

Edited March 1 by mistertim

[OtisDriftwood25]

McCarthy to me is the ultimate unknown. There are just so few opportunities of him having adversity. Great coaching, great run game, great offensive line, great defense. Michigan has 18 players at the combine this week. Let that sink in knowing there are 22 starters on the roster. He threw against 7-8 man boxes with the lead most games. 

Then, he has good build, good arm and good accuracy. He seems to be intelligent and a winner. He seems to be a great teammate and leader. Very tough evaluation.

[BayouBrave86]

Also JJ is slighter of frame than Daniels, but feel like that isn’t brought up at all. 

[mistertim]

Just now, BayouBrave86 said:

Also JJ is slighter of frame than Daniels, but feel like that isn’t brought up at all. 

 

I'd guess it's because he doesn't run much. Though I think it's still a legit question about him.

[Dah-Dee]

1 minute ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

McCarthy to me is the ultimate unknown. There are just so few opportunities of him having adversity. Great coaching, great run game, great offensive line, great defense. Michigan has 18 players at the combine this week. Let that sink in knowing there are 22 starters on the roster. He threw against 7-8 man boxes with the lead most games. 

Then, he has good build, good arm and good accuracy. He seems to be intelligent and a winner. He seems to be a great teammate and leader. Very tough evaluation.

 

I agree he's the biggest mystery at the combine. Not sure I agree about the good build, I think Michigan had him listed at 6'3" and 197, he's really skinny. The arm is also a mystery that seems to get wildy varying evaluations, and accuracy is questioned to a lesser degree, so I'm very curious to see how he throws at the combine.

[Ghost of]

2 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Also JJ is slighter of frame than Daniels, but feel like that isn’t brought up at all. 

Putting aside your earlier comment, they don't say it because JJ has wider shoulders and a frame that looks bigger than his weight. Jayden Daniels looks like a lollipop out there and has narrow frame. When JJ wears a helmet it looks like a football QB wearing a helmet. When Jayden wears one, he looks ridiculous. That or LSU's equipment manager bore a personal Nathan Shelley-like grudge against him.

[clskinsfan]

10 hours ago, spjunkies said:

Alright, I don't care about the nail or crying BS but this is extremely odd and seems unnecessary. Cut the nonsense out young man and consider getting a consultant that knows what they're doing. 

I am one of the biggest Caleb fans here. And I agree with you. Maybe he thinks if he controls the teams that see his medicals he can control who would be willing to trade up for him. But even I am growing tired of the crap this guy is pulling at this point. 

[mac8887]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This tells me everything I need to know about how you "evaluate". You find a couple of rando twitter people who don't like him, then hang your hat on their every word.

 

There are twitter people who say Daniels is closer to a 2nd round talent. I don't harp on them. Why? Because it's a stupid take. Just like Benkert who said Maye was basically Mason Rudolph with a lesser arm.

 

So dumb.

Well his stat line in that game was just as putrid  as the play he put on film. I evaluate these QBs by watching them, making my own assessments and then after that I compare it to others to see if they match my own, then I’ll go back and rewatch it again to make sure. In 2 years, Maye has had 8 games that he did not play well enough to win the games. No other player I evaluated had more than 4. How do you evaluate, do you not take in any others input, to check your own? You must be the perfect evaluater. 

Edited March 1 by mac8887

[SoCalSkins]

5 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Also JJ is slighter of frame than Daniels, but feel like that isn’t brought up at all. 

Daniels ceiling is post rookie year RG3. Pretend he’s Robert and the combine is the Seattle playoff game. That’s the career you have to look forward to with him. 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

Well his stat line in that game where just as putrid  as the play he put on film. I evaluate these QBs by watching them, making my own assessments and then after that I compare it to others to see if they match my own, then I’ll go back and rewatch it again to make sure. In 2 years, Maye has had 8 games that he did not play well enough to win the games. No other player I evaluated had more than 4

 

If you did a bunch of film study you wouldn't be immediately throwing out opinions from twitter randos as some sort of proof.

 

Look, you don't like him. That's fine. You're really like Daniels and McCarthy, which is fine. Just stop pretending to be in any way objective about the whole thing.

[Ghost of]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

I am one of the biggest Caleb fans here. And I agree with you. Maybe he thinks if he controls the teams that see his medicals he can control who would be willing to trade up for him. But even I am growing tired of the crap this guy is pulling at this point. 

I'm uncertain on Caleb overall but I can understand. Apparently, it's not just 1 or 2 exams held by someone appointed by NFL doctors but multiple teams' doctors examine you, ask you the same questions, etc. I don't know the process so it would make more sense that teams consolidate groups of doctors and then keep it to 1-2 exams.

[HTTRDynasty]

At least his teammates seem to like him...

 

 

[OtisDriftwood25]

5 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

I agree he's the biggest mystery at the combine. Not sure I agree about the good build, I think Michigan had him listed at 6'3" and 197, he's really skinny. The arm is also a mystery that seems to get wildy varying evaluations, and accuracy is questioned to a lesser degree, so I'm very curious to see how he throws at the combine.

I forgot that he was that light. I am also fine with Daniels so a factor but not a defining factor. That of course is with having an adequate offensive line. If you think you are rolling them out with last years line then we are in trouble.

[ThatNFLChick]

I don't care about JJ's frame as much. He's shorter than Daniels and skinnier but he can fill out. He seems like a smart, enthusiastic kid but he would absolutely need to sit behind a vet. 100%. Throwing him out there to start would be absolutely insane.

 

I am more concerned with putting the offense in his hands when he seemed to be in a system where Harbaugh had full control. There is a big difference between that and this. Did JJ ever call plays at the line of scrimmage?

 

[mac8887]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

If you did a bunch of film study you wouldn't be immediately throwing out opinions from twitter randos as some sort of proof.

 

Look, you don't like him. That's fine. You're really like Daniels and McCarthy, which is fine. Just stop pretending to be in any way objective about the whole thing.

I have watched more Maye than any of the others, and I like Maye, never said I didn’t, I’ve even stated that he has elite traits already and has potential to be a top 5 QB for  his entire career, where do you get I don’t like Maye?

 

one thing I won’t do is pretend there’s no holes in his game just because I think he’ll be the pick, and I think that Maye will be the pick

[NOLA2DC]

35 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

That may be true but if you look into it deeply most Winners have some humility in their personalities. 

I think that's a PR thing, and I think he's being abrasive unnecessarily. That type of stuff usually comes back and kicks you in your rear. I can respect a competitor saying I'm the "badest" mofo out there but you have to know when to become a politician and compliment everyone and defer all praises to your coaches and teammates. He's failing the PR aspect, that's all. 

[ThatNFLChick]

Apparently the trade market for Justin Fields is pretty small