FootballZombie Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: What about trading back from 2 to 6, then 10, taking Fuaga at 10 and McCarthy with our first 2nd and ending up with multiple firsts next year and more day two/three picks this year. Then we start Howell or bring in Wilson and redshirt McCarthy. Let him learn the system and grow into it, while building a solid young team for him to step into, while being very competitive. I'm not bluffing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: I'm not bluffing. I don't know what's happening here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 29 minutes ago, KDawg said: You must really hate Jayden Daniels, then. Nah you are wrong. I don't know much about him, but do know he is not the one the masses are told is the best QB to draft. On a hope they don't get it wrong this year once again. Its interesting the bust article doesn't touch on his lack of height which is one of the biggest red flags for me for a 1OA QB. Its odd that consensus always seems so strong on who the best QB is. Like the big names find safety in numbers. But then we poll knowledgeable people here and they don't agree, I would like to think expert consensus on the "best" QB should be split FAR more often than it is with the high bust rate of the position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: I don't know what's happening here. Poking fun at peeps bringing up various scenarios that have a worse likelyhood of happening then Penix making it thru grade school without name related trauma. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 (edited) 2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: Poking fun at peeps bringing up various scenarios that have a worse likelyhood of happening then Penix making it thru grade school without name related trauma. Ok Nostra dumb. You know the future? Edited January 20 by Koolblue13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: Ok Nostra dumb. You know the future? (I got ur back KB) Lemme see... I'm gonna step out on a quadruple re-enforced limb and say we take a QB in the first couple picks of the draft. I'm feeling extra bold so I'm gonna say it happens within the first 3 selections... Edited January 20 by FootballZombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: What about trading back from 2 to 6, then 10, taking Fuaga at 10 and McCarthy with our first 2nd and ending up with multiple firsts next year and more day two/three picks this year. Then we start Howell or bring in Wilson and redshirt McCarthy. Let him learn the system and grow into it, while building a solid young team for him to step into, while being very competitive. Sounds great. Until McCarthy isn’t there. Cant pass on the QB when we’re picking second and the other positions sans receiver are weaker at elite prospects. 8 minutes ago, RandyHolt said: Nah you are wrong. I don't know much about him, but do know he is not the one the masses are told is the best QB to draft. On a hope they don't get it wrong this year once again. Its interesting the bust article doesn't touch on his lack of height which is one of the biggest red flags for me for a 1OA QB. Its odd that consensus always seems so strong on who the best QB is. Like the big names find safety in numbers. But then we poll knowledgeable people here and they don't agree, I would like to think expert consensus on the "best" QB should be split FAR more often than it is with the high bust rate of the position. You were dogging Williams for being an athlete, weren’t you? Isnt that Daniels whole schtick? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 Just now, FootballZombie said: Lemme see... I'm gonna step out on a quadruple re-enforced limb and say we take a QB in the first couple picks of the draft. I'm feeling extra bold so I'm gonna say it happens within the first 3 selections... Probably, yes, but it's not a sure thing. We haven't even finished the season or gotten to the combine. Anything is possible. Claiming you know with certainty what the future holds, is dumb. Next you'll tell me how long and how many probowls each QB will have. How many mega millions have you won Ms Cleo? If Peters and (probably) Johnson aren't sold on Maye/Daniels or can't get Williams(which they've explored), anything could happen. The #2 pick can completely swing the future of a team build, which both Harris and Peters have said will take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 12 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Probably, yes, but it's not a sure thing. We haven't even finished the season or gotten to the combine. Anything is possible. Claiming you know with certainty what the future holds, is dumb. Next you'll tell me how long and how many probowls each QB will have. How many mega millions have you won Ms Cleo? If Peters and (probably) Johnson aren't sold on Maye/Daniels or can't get Williams(which they've explored), anything could happen. The #2 pick can completely swing the future of a team build, which both Harris and Peters have said will take time. Anything can happen but if they trade down and miss, then they are out of a job. Of course, if they stay put and their qb is a bust; they might not get a second crack. San Fran missed on Lance but got lucky with Purdy. We won’t know how Harris will react with a major misstep until it happens. The safer route is to draft qb at #2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Just now, 88Comrade2000 said: Anything can happen but if they trade down and miss, then they are out of a job. Of course, if they stay put and their qb is a bust; they might not get a second crack. San Fran missed on Lance but got lucky with Purdy. We won’t know how Harris will react with a major misstep until it happens. The safer route is to draft qb at #2. I can see Harris being methodical and structured, but far from safe. I think we’ll be aggressive in a calculated fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 4 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said: Anything can happen but if they trade down and miss, then they are out of a job. Of course, if they stay put and their qb is a bust; they might not get a second crack. San Fran missed on Lance but got lucky with Purdy. We won’t know how Harris will react with a major misstep until it happens. The safer route is to draft qb at #2. Yes, the GM who just missed hard on a high pick at QB and crushed it with a late rounder, is probably going to take the QB at 2. It just annoys me when anyone arrogantly makes posts like they know things with certainty. The hit rate for the QB1 is what? 40% This is from before this season, but..... "There have been 38 quarterbacks drafted in the first round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it extremely affordable to draft a quarterback," he began. "These 38 first-round quarterbacks have made a total of 1,909 starts. Their record? 1034-1035-7. Almost exactly break-even." "Only one of those 38 quarterbacks led their team to a Super Bowl victory: Patrick Mahomes," Sharp reported. "Of these 38 quarterbacks, 10 are still on their rookie deal, so set them aside. Of the other 28, only 11 (39%) were even given a second deal with the team that drafted them. Most were cut or saw their rookie deals expire." https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-first-round-quarterbacks-busts Pretty sure the only solid QBs taken 2nd after a QB went first is McNabb or Archie Manning, but the chances of a Ryan Leaf are much greater. So why not enjoy thinking about trading down and building the rest of the team, while loading up for the next draft or two. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Yes, the GM who just missed hard on a high pick at QB and crushed it with a late rounder, is probably going to take the QB at 2. It just annoys me when anyone arrogantly makes posts like they know things with certainty. The hit rate for the QB1 is what? 40% This is from before this season, but..... "There have been 38 quarterbacks drafted in the first round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it extremely affordable to draft a quarterback," he began. "These 38 first-round quarterbacks have made a total of 1,909 starts. Their record? 1034-1035-7. Almost exactly break-even." "Only one of those 38 quarterbacks led their team to a Super Bowl victory: Patrick Mahomes," Sharp reported. "Of these 38 quarterbacks, 10 are still on their rookie deal, so set them aside. Of the other 28, only 11 (39%) were even given a second deal with the team that drafted them. Most were cut or saw their rookie deals expire." https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-first-round-quarterbacks-busts Pretty sure the only solid QBs taken 2nd after a QB went first is McNabb or Archie Manning, but the chances of a Ryan Leaf are much greater. So why not enjoy thinking about trading down and building the rest of the team, while loading up for the next draft or two. I think “anything is possible” is valid. Harris could pass controlling ownership to Magic, too, and we could see tweets like this: ”Josh Harris has passed me controlling share of the Commanders. I am now in charge. That means I have decisions to make.” On Facebook I accidentally (I don’t belong to any commander groups on the book… on purpose) saw people arguing about Griffin and Gruden and saying Gruden got him hurt… it’s not even worth anyone’s time to attempt conversation there. Here, though, for the most part anyways… I think we can assume we are talking in “most likely” scenarios. ****, if someone wants to give us two firsts this year, 2 firsts next year and a first in 26 and some extra draft change I’d consider trading it. Or if Magic became controlling owner I’d expect him to draft Larry Bird to play QB just for a little revenge… But ultimately I think, with things as they are currently (and **** changes) it’s safe to assume we’re going QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Yes, the GM who just missed hard on a high pick at QB and crushed it with a late rounder, is probably going to take the QB at 2. It just annoys me when anyone arrogantly makes posts like they know things with certainty. The hit rate for the QB1 is what? 40% This is from before this season, but..... "There have been 38 quarterbacks drafted in the first round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it extremely affordable to draft a quarterback," he began. "These 38 first-round quarterbacks have made a total of 1,909 starts. Their record? 1034-1035-7. Almost exactly break-even." "Only one of those 38 quarterbacks led their team to a Super Bowl victory: Patrick Mahomes," Sharp reported. "Of these 38 quarterbacks, 10 are still on their rookie deal, so set them aside. Of the other 28, only 11 (39%) were even given a second deal with the team that drafted them. Most were cut or saw their rookie deals expire." https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-first-round-quarterbacks-busts Pretty sure the only solid QBs taken 2nd after a QB went first is McNabb or Archie Manning, but the chances of a Ryan Leaf are much greater. So why not enjoy thinking about trading down and building the rest of the team, while loading up for the next draft or two. You’re entitled to your wish as what we should do as those who want us to stay put are entitled. My preference is to draft qb at #2, then trading down to get more picks and picking a qb later in the draft with the 2nd or 3rd tier qbs. If we were drafting out of the top 5, I would’ve been more amenable to trading down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 6 hours ago, mistertim said: Nothing really pops at all when I watch McCarthy. Pretty good and consistent mechanics, good (but a little wide) base, though with a sort of long wind up delivery. Seems to play well within the system, but wasn't asked to do all that much. Pretty calm under pressure. Average at best arm...you can see on intermediate routes where he needs to get the ball there he really has to step into the throw and give it his all to make it a dart. Also, I mostly check out as soon as i hear the "he's just a winner" thing thrown out there. That's basically code for "He doesn't really do much or put up big numbers but he's on a team that wins so I'll put that out there as if it means something." McCarthy was on a team with a beastly defense and running game. He was asked to throw occasionally and not make too many mistakes, which he did. I feel like he has the ceiling of an average starter or a quality backup in the NFL Mac Jones level guy. But who knows, maybe he's a gem that wasn't asked to do much, but could if he had been. I guess we'll see what our scouts and FO think. Agree totally especially the “winner” part. Idgaf if you won on a stacked team in college. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Just now, Warhead36 said: Agree totally especially the “winner” part. Idgaf if you won on a stacked team in college. McCarthy is undersold big time here. He’s just not a top notch prospect. I lump him with Nix & Rattler. In a lot of ways they may all be safer than the top guys, and will probably have good careers… but their ceiling and path to raise it is a much more daunting voyage. Whereas the consensus 3 are high ceiling guys that could pop or break quick but their ceilings are through the roof. QB evaluation in a nut shell. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 18 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Yes, the GM who just missed hard on a high pick at QB and crushed it with a late rounder, is probably going to take the QB at 2. It just annoys me when anyone arrogantly makes posts like they know things with certainty. The hit rate for the QB1 is what? 40% This is from before this season, but..... "There have been 38 quarterbacks drafted in the first round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it extremely affordable to draft a quarterback," he began. "These 38 first-round quarterbacks have made a total of 1,909 starts. Their record? 1034-1035-7. Almost exactly break-even." "Only one of those 38 quarterbacks led their team to a Super Bowl victory: Patrick Mahomes," Sharp reported. "Of these 38 quarterbacks, 10 are still on their rookie deal, so set them aside. Of the other 28, only 11 (39%) were even given a second deal with the team that drafted them. Most were cut or saw their rookie deals expire." https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-first-round-quarterbacks-busts Pretty sure the only solid QBs taken 2nd after a QB went first is McNabb or Archie Manning, but the chances of a Ryan Leaf are much greater. So why not enjoy thinking about trading down and building the rest of the team, while loading up for the next draft or two. Cj Stroud and Josh Allen both went 2nd after another QB went 1st… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 4 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said: You’re entitled to your wish as what we should do as those who want us to stay put are entitled. My preference is to draft qb at #2, then trading down to get more picks and picking a qb later in the draft with the 2nd or 3rd tier qbs. If we were drafting out of the top 5, I would’ve been more amenable to trading down. First, I didn't say that was my wish. I said it's possible and a fun thought. I don't know enough about the QBs or Peters long term plan to say anything with certainty. My issue is with people acting like they know everything and then being assholes to anyone who disagrees with them. 8 minutes ago, KDawg said: I think “anything is possible” is valid. There is no precedent of Harris giving away his teams to a minority owner and we can say there is not much of a chance that happens. There is precedent of Peters trading back often and hitting on those picks. There is also precedent of Peters being involved with drafting a bust very high and nailing a QB later in the draft. I get the "you always take a QB" mentality and if Maye is indeed Herbert 2.0, then yeah, I'd definitely stay at 2 without a doubt. He's be the first great QB taken at 2, 2nd in the draft since Archie Manning, so there is no way anyone can say it's a sure thing. And if it's not a sure thing abd we can get the ammo to get the next Manning (literally even), then why dismiss that conversation now, before the senior bowl or combine or anything like that. 8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Cj Stroud and Josh Allen both went 2nd after another QB went 1st… Ok, 4 in 50 years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Would be pretty wild if Ben Johnson were hired and firmly believes in Howell… (Whether that’s Howell compared with the other available qbs, or Howell plus draft ammo - possibly w/ a trade back - over the other guys) I say Ben Johnson due to the UNC connections of course 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmandoug1 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Should be fun to watch the new crew work though. I will stay with the trade back scenario...but I completely understand the grab and go thought as well. Draft will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Command The 414 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 13 minutes ago, skinny21 said: Would be pretty wild if Ben Johnson were hired and firmly believes in Howell… (Whether that’s Howell compared with the other available qbs, or Howell plus draft ammo - possibly w/ a trade back - over the other guys) I say Ben Johnson due to the UNC connections of course Man if only that would be the case….And if that were true it would almost be like the parting of the Red Sea cause it would open doors to sooooo many draft options (either trading back, getting more, taking MHJ) just so many great options… options that imho would be so beneficial to the team… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: Ok, 4 in 50 years. There's only been like 20 or so Qbs drafted 2nd overall in the history of the NFL (and that's including the pre Superbowl era). If you include the good/decent QBs (let's say QBs you can win with as opposed to QBs who'll put the team on their back) you get players like Norm Snead, Roman Gabriel, Bert Jones. Before injuries derailed his career, Carson Wentz was a hit as a 2nd overall. Nothing inherently bad about being drafted 2nd overall as a QB (which of course never made much logical sense to begin with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Command The 414 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 another take about the QB’s coming out …compared to Howell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 18 minutes ago, bearrock said: There's only been like 20 or so Qbs drafted 2nd overall in the history of the NFL (and that's including the pre Superbowl era). If you include the good/decent QBs (let's say QBs you can win with as opposed to QBs who'll put the team on their back) you get players like Norm Snead, Roman Gabriel, Bert Jones. Before injuries derailed his career, Carson Wentz was a hit as a 2nd overall. Nothing inherently bad about being drafted 2nd overall as a QB (which of course never made much logical sense to begin with). Yes, you can split that hair as finely as you'd like and it still doesn't change my point that taking a QB isn't a large risk and that QB better be good. It's not an automatic choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, Warhead36 said: Cj Stroud and Josh Allen both went 2nd after another QB went 1st… Josh Allen didn’t go 2nd. He was seventh overall and the third QB taken. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Command The 414 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Ball Security said: Josh Allen didn’t go 2nd. He was seventh overall and the third QB taken. And to the best of my recollection a lot thought that was a stretch for Buffalo…w/Allen not being a can’t miss guy Edited January 20 by Command The 414 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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