The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RandyHolt]

Howell is now SO close to properly exploding.  The slightest of overthrows on deep balls, random drops from normally sure handed WRs, or flat out drops like Dyami "Feed me NC" Brown's end zone drop...if we can get those corrected 400 yard games are in his future. Maybe a 500 day is coming - I have circled Miami even though they got their stud DBs back. Sam is also running the ball more, and sliding. I can't recall the last time we had a QB scramble to convert a 3rd and 20+.

 

NE was good at limiting QBs.  I think they held all but 1 or 2 QB under 240 passing yards. Take out a few drops and Sam is close to 400 yesterday.  Belly doesn't have Brady but he is still a master of taking out an offenses best players.

Edited November 6, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I wish we had just bit the bullet and started him last year. I mean after half a season he's already clearly better than anything we've had since Cousins. Imagine how much better he'd be right now if he had been the starter from last year.

One could argue him sitting the year actually helped him, but we'll never know. 

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Howell is now SO close to properly exploding.  The slightest of overthrows on deep balls, random drops from normally sure handed WRs, or flat out drops like Dyami "Feed me NC" Brown's end zone drop...if we can get those corrected 400 yard games are in his future. Maybe a 500 day is coming - I have circled Miami even though they got their stud DBs back. Sam is also running the ball more, and sliding. I can't recall the last time we had a QB scramble to convert a 3rd and 20+.

 

NE was good at limiting QBs.  I think they held all but 1 or 2 QB under 240 passing yards. Take out a few drops and Sam is close to 400 yesterday.  Belly doesn't have Brady but he is still a master of taking out an offenses best players.

Its up to the WRs really. They gotta start making the big play catches. Howell was pretty much on point the entire day yesterday.

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm saying I wish Howell had started from day one

 

Not after trading for Wentz they couldn't. Now if Ron had followed my plan of not going for a retread again and gotten Howell in the 2nd round and used that Wentz money to actually build the OL last year then this year we would be talking about going deep into the playoffs and not how high our draft pick going to be. 

 

But, the best thing that happened for Howell is the sale of the team. This forced Rod to start Howell since they couldn't burn, yet again, more money on a retread and win now mentality. But for Ron it is little too late. A new FO will have a legit QB they can build around and hit the ground running instead. 

[srtman04]

If Sam has another 300+ yard game next week,  it's safe to say a trend in highly positive territory is officially developing.   The last QB like that even in this conversation was Kirk Cousins. I'm so happy to have Sam on our team and to think we got him in the 5th round,  could be the greatest steal in the draft since Brady.  Not even joking.  

[The Consigliere]

15 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Goff is a Hyundai Elantra that someone randomly dropped a $50 Amazon supercharger into.

May be different these days, but the story on him always seemed to be, any pressure at all, and his game folds like a lawn chair. So if you have him, you gotta have an elite OL. I do believe there's is pretty good, so that probably helps. Hella return on basically a contract eating trade so the rams could handle Staffords contract. 

[kfrankie]

7 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

If Sam has another 300+ yard game next week,  it's safe to say a trend in highly positive territory is officially developing.   The last QB like that even in this conversation was Kirk Cousins. I'm so happy to have Sam on our team and to think we got him in the 5th round,  could be the greatest steal in the draft since Brady.  Not even joking.  

 

I think the trend right now is positive. He's had a couple poor games, but for the most part he's exceed expectations.  He made some throws yesterday that we haven't seen here since Cousins, or maybe even Rypien.  And I think he has a stronger (not necessarily better) arm than Kirk, and could be a better quarterback than Rypien. He's clearly more mobile than either of them, my god that run on 3rd and 23 is career highlight reel type stuff.  The interception in the endzone, as bad as it was, just seemed to be a mistake, almost like for some reason he thought the defender was his receiver. I'd like to hear his explanation, but that one doesn't really concern me.

 

I don't want to get too carried away though. He's still getting pummeled, he still has work to do on getting the ball out.  But EB finally appears to realize that Howell is not Mahomes, so adjustments are being made to make this Howell's offense as much as it is EB's. If we let this play out, the future could be bright.  

[RandyHolt]

22 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its up to the WRs really. They gotta start making the big play catches. Howell was pretty much on point the entire day yesterday.

Only 2 passes to complain about yesterday were the INT and ~25 yard pass over Bates out the back of the endzone/3rd quarter, that was maybe a throwaway?

 

I am too lazy but would like to see Eugene tabulate what his total yards would be without blatant drops yesterday.

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by RandyHolt

[HigSkin]

Defensive HC's typically stunt the growth of a young QB because they don't allow a guy to grow.  The want a guy who won't screw up their defensive game plans (tongue in cheek).  The timing of a new Alpha OC who can say to Ron, "go away we got this" is what was needed for Sam's development.  Turner wasn't going to provide that last year.

 

Glad for Sam it worked out this way, timing wise.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

We’re only 18th in PPG. That needs to tick up. In the last 4 games, we’ve scored 24, 7, 31, and 20. If you could get better consistency and more TDs, we’d really be cooking and the Sam narrative would get really crazy . 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

I’m watching ESPN and todays trivia question revealed that Baker Mayfield broke Dan Marino’s record for most TD passes by a rookie.  I bring this up to because 1) Howell’s skill set/physique is very similar to Mayfeld’s and 2) some of y’all may wanna pump the brakes a little bit with this corny “10 games ZOMG!!!” nonsense.

 

You were pounding the table years back relentelessy (almost as much as Sheehan) for us to trade for Sam Darnold.  That dude took his share of sacks too.  Granted not as many but Sam is IMO a much better decision maker and is more accurate than Sam.   Also with better play caling, better center play and Sam learning on the job -- he seems to be conquering this mountain but will see.

 

https://www.espn.co.uk/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/35983/o-line-making-it-tough-for-carolina-panthers-to-evaluate-sam-darnold-qb-position

 

Darnold also isn’t on this list, because Sunday was the fifth time he’s been sacked five-plus times since the New York Jets made him the third pick of the 2018 draft -- but he is 0-5 in those games, including 0-2 this season with Carolina.

Darnold isn’t without blame. He makes mistakes that can’t be put on the O-line. He didn’t see the Saints safety coming on a blitz on his final possession with the Panthers needing a touchdown and 2-point conversion to tie. Instead of hitting the hot read, he took a sack for a 9-yard loss.

Three plays later, a badly thrown pass to DJ Moore was intercepted.

 

So when asked about Rhule’s assessment that the protection is not providing ample opportunity for evaluation, Darnold said, “The bottom line is that everyone is not playing good enough.’’

But pressure obviously impacts the evaluation of Darnold. He was sacked 98 times in three years with the Jets and finished with a 13-25 record. During a 2019 Monday Night Football loss to New England, the quarterback was heard saying “I’m seeing ghosts.’’

Darnold is being sacked at a higher rate with the Panthers – 3.3 per game compared to 2.57 with the Jets.

“Our inability to protect the quarterback will certainly show up as one of the main stats,’’ Rhule said.

It showed up in many ways Sunday. Darnold’s 3.5 air yards per attempt was the lowest of his career. Near the end of the third quarter that average was 0.0.

He was forced to get rid of the ball quickly in part to avoid the pressure and in part because receivers didn’t have time to get open.

In many ways, Sunday was a snapshot of Carolina’s season, of Darnold’s career. Early, when the Panthers had a semblance of a running game and Darnold’s timing was sharp, the offense was effective.

When the running game disappeared – 20 yards in the second half – and New Orleans came at Darnold with pressure on 47% of his drop backs, everything fell apart.

33 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

May be different these days, but the story on him always seemed to be, any pressure at all, and his game folds like a lawn chair. So if you have him, you gotta have an elite OL. I do believe there's is pretty good, so that probably helps. Hella return on basically a contract eating trade so the rams could handle Staffords contract. 

 

Some say the Lions got the best O line in the NFL.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

If Howell were getting his brains beat in on a historically bad Jets squad while we were grinding out a cure for insomniacs with Kyle Allen and TayTay under center, then I’d damn sure be “pounding the table” for us to trade for Howell, too.  
 

Not sure what you’re point is, @Skinsinparadise.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

Emmanuel Forbes with a 91. Man how bad are the Pats WRs lolol

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Depends on the staff. When the Eagles hired Nick Sirianni he kept Jalen Hurts. McVay kept Jared Goff. McDaniel kept Tua. 

 

If you have a GUY, or think the guy you have is a GUY, you commit to him right away.

 

The biggest thing is making sure the new GM and HC and everyone else in the organization is all on the same page. If they wanna commit to Howell then I'm in too. If not, then I'm okay with that too.

 

What we can NOT have is another Snyder situation where he forces a QB on his next regime. That never works.

 

I'm with you on Caleb though. I'm OUT on him completely. All the talent in the world but the guy just screams diva and headcase. I don't think he'll be coachable much if at all. I do love Drake Maye though.

None of those teams were picking at the top of the draft, they weren't in range to make changes at QB even if they'd wanted to. To big an ask to climb up so high. We'll see where we end up, I've continually suggested a floor of 4 wins, a ceiling of 7 and an expectation of 5-6, w/yesterdays win that moves the needle a touch more, especially with Dallas now falling out of the division race, they'll only have something to play for in the finale if seeding matters to them. So 7 wins is now closer to expectation than a few days ago. But I still think it's reasonable to expect our pick to fall 6-12, and to give the new FO/Staff real headaches. All Howell can do is keep doing what he's doing, playing like at worst a league average to slightly below average guy on his worst days, and a top 8-12 guy on his best, if he does that the rest of the way, stays healthy, keeps the sack numbers a touch more manageable, the new staff probably bets on him, fixes other stuff and reasons ("if he's the guy, he'll prove it, and our pick won't be good enough to replace him, and if he isn't the guy, he'll tank like Mac Jones is this year, guaranteeing the pick is high enough to address it in '25. Only problem with that is '25 is a worse QB class by A LOT). 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

If Howell were getting his brains beat in on a historically bad Jets squad while we were grinding out a cure for insomniacs with Kyle Allen and TayTay under center, then I’d damn sure be “pounding the table” for us to trade for Howell, too.  
 

Not sure what you’re point is, @Skinsinparadise.

 

My point is if you are saying hold the breaks on Sam using the analogy of Baker getting hit so much -- if so why didn't that point apply to Sam Darnold for you?  Sam Darnold played for years in New York taking hits.    And you were enthusiastic about trading for him.  That was my point. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

Hes got a few fans LOL 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My point is if you are saying hold the breaks on Sam using the analogy of Baker getting hit so much -- if so why didn't that point apply to Sam Darnold for you?  Sam Darnold played for years in New York taking hits.    And you were enthusiastic about trading for him.  That was my point. 

 

 

Aaaah, you’re trying a little apples to oranges/semantics schtick.  
 

I like Howell.

I like Darnold.

And, I like Mayfield.

 

The difference between you and me, is that I recognize the limitations of those three very similar players and you make posts with terms like “mahomesian”…which is more giggle-worthy than any of the obviously tongue-in-cheek Darnold posts I’ve made over the years.  

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I do think if he went in the first or even 2nd round, he'd be viewed differently.  Here's a scout before the draft talking about him.  I just posted this elsewhere but figure it belongs better here, I cut if off even though it was more praise because an expletive was in that mix.

 

 

 

Its interesting reading the reports because the sense you get from a lot of scouts was either:

 

They liked them, and were trying to figure out if '21 was about the weapons or about him and

 

The ones who just didn't see it, and didn't like him, bad year, too short, too little pocket awareness (he was sacked a ton at UNC too) etc. 

 

But there really did seem like disagreement on him.

 

Then the league just fumbled him badly.

 

I still cannot understand why a FO would prefer moderate floor and no ceiling guys like Pickett, and Ridder to a guy like Howell who had probably a concerning floor, but significantly higher ceiling too. I liked Willis, and I believed in that draft you bet on the ceiling guys: Willis, Howell, and Corrall, and avoid the floor guys because the floor guys were obvious future backups, or bad starters....

 

I was and am stunned he dropped that far. I assumed he'd go late 1st to late 2nd. I didnt and don't get it, and I think the rest of the league is shaking its head too right now. A lot of crappy guys with middling or worse ceilings went before him. 

[757SeanTaylor21]

1 hour ago, srtman04 said:

If Sam has another 300+ yard game next week,  it's safe to say a trend in highly positive territory is officially developing.   The last QB like that even in this conversation was Kirk Cousins. I'm so happy to have Sam on our team and to think we got him in the 5th round,  could be the greatest steal in the draft since Brady.  Not even joking.  

I mean Brock purdy right now has that on lock taken even lower than Sam. But hey.  We might have something

[kfrankie]

14 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Hes got a few fans LOL 

 

 

That's a great example of a throw that this team has had difficulty making since Cousins left.  Heinicke would have wiggled out of pressure and run for 8 yards.  Howell flicks his wrist and delivers the ball 40 yard downfield and his receiver in stride, separating him from both defenders.

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

I mean Brock purdy right now has that on lock taken even lower than Sam. But hey.  We might have something

Howell is better than Purdy. Purdy benefits from insane talent around him. His game has gone to doo doo once some of those guys started getting hurt.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Aaaah, you’re trying a little apples to oranges/semantics schtick.  
 

I like Howell.

I like Darnold.

And, I like Mayfield.

 

The difference between you and me, is that I recognize the limitations of those three very similar players and you make posts with terms like “mahomesian”…which is more giggle-worthy than any of the obviously tongue-in-cheek Darnold posts I’ve made over the years.  

 

So now they were tongue in the cheek posts about Darnold.  Back then when he was actually on the trading block you pushed that over and over again.  It was tough to forget.  No biggie we all get some wrong.  But my point about Darnold specifically to the points you are making now is that dude took a ton of sacks.

 

But sure why not?   You are the voice of reason about QBs, as you say, you recognize their limitations while I and I gather others fail.  Its very humbiling. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Depends on the staff. When the Eagles hired Nick Sirianni he kept Jalen Hurts. McVay kept Jared Goff. McDaniel kept Tua. 

 

If you have a GUY, or think the guy you have is a GUY, you commit to him right away.

 

The biggest thing is making sure the new GM and HC and everyone else in the organization is all on the same page. If they wanna commit to Howell then I'm in too. If not, then I'm okay with that too.

 

What we can NOT have is another Snyder situation where he forces a QB on his next regime. That never works.

 

I'm with you on Caleb though. I'm OUT on him completely. All the talent in the world but the guy just screams diva and headcase. I don't think he'll be coachable much if at all. I do love Drake Maye though.

Caleb allegedly wants ownership stake in team.