The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

Here's more from Russini.

 

The Kirk stuff will be heartbreaking for @wit33, looks like he's not coming here

 

 

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

Not trying to bring this back to TH but I really hope he stinks tomorrow. I am starting the Viking defense in fantasy.

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wylie had his best game yet still gave up a key sack.   Agree Bill for his faults knows how to scheme up an offensive lines weakness.

Goes to 9 SBs and wins 6. “For all his faults.”

 

Tough crowd. 

[Dark Acre]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

 

That is one ugly color and pattern combination.  And he can't even tie his tie properly.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Not trying to bring this back to TH but I really hope he stinks tomorrow. I am starting the Viking defense in fantasy.

If you’re not trying to bring it back to Hallock, then don’t.  

9 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

That is one ugly color and pattern combination.  And he can't even tie his tie properly.

These are the least of his transgressions…

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Goes to 9 SBs and wins 6. “For all his faults.”

 

Tough crowd. 

 

Tom Brady went to 9 SBs. Bill B was mostly along for the ride.

 

I remember watching a video of Bill and Brady going over some film and planning for the next game. It was basically Brady saying "They're going to do this, so we should do this, this, and this" and Bill B saying "ok"

 

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Not trying to bring this back to TH but I really hope he stinks tomorrow. I am starting the Viking defense in fantasy.

 

So you joined over a year ago and I would hope by now you know that there is a section called ATN (Around The NFL) and there is a thread called Game Day Thread. This is where you need to post about players not on the team anymore. Also your post had nothing to do with our current QBs or this thread. Just a friendly advice/heads-up, not a mod. 

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

So you joined over a year ago and I would hope by now you know that there is a section called ATN (Around The NFL) and there is a thread called Game Day Thread. This is where you need to post about players not on the team anymore. Also your post had nothing to do with our current QBs or this thread. Just a friendly advice/heads-up, not a mod. 

Geez. Smh.

[Robbob]

4 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Not trying to bring this back to TH but I really hope he stinks tomorrow. I am starting the Viking defense in fantasy.

I actually appreciate TH and what he did for us in his time here,  but I am really hoping that a year from now, we will be able to acknowledge that the greatest thing he did for us was to convince Rivera to start Howell against the Cowturds last year.

[DWinzit]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To the end I wonder if at some point we see Lucas instead of Wylie

I'm sure they aren't there yet but another bad Wylie day mixed with a decent Larsen showing and hey now...

[wit33]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Here's more from Russini.

 

The Kirk stuff will be heartbreaking for @wit33, looks like he's not coming here

 

 

 

Haha... Kirk and his team will likely try to reshape the narrative of his entire career this offseason by accepting a lower salary to remain in Minnesota, despite having negotiated hefty deals throughout his career.
 

I speculate that Minnesota may part ways with him. The coach is speaking highly of him and might be inclined to retain him in an effort to maintain mediocrity and secure more paychecks for everyone involved. 
 

Full disclosure, Kirk at 6-8% of the cap is something I can get behind. 

[Stihl89]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Unless it says Josh likes him, I couldn’t care less what that building says about him. They are all gone in 6 weeks time. Of course they are going to be in on him. He’s their only chance of sticking around. 
 

Also what a shock that a mid group loves a mid QB

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Haha... Kirk and his team will likely try to reshape the narrative of his entire career this offseason by accepting a lower salary to remain in Minnesota, despite having negotiated hefty deals throughout his career.
 

I speculate that Minnesota may part ways with him. The coach is speaking highly of him and might be inclined to retain him in an effort to maintain mediocrity and secure more paychecks for everyone involved. 
 

Full disclosure, Kirk at 6-8% of the cap is something I can get behind. 

 

I've seen some Kirk haters (don't recall your take on it) say no way would the Vikings resign Kirk after the first contract.  But then they did.  Then I recall one poster (not you) say the resigning was proof from the Vikings that they made a mistake in the first contract. . And I do recall who said it.    I know @BatteredFanSyndrome likely remembers that post because we both joked about it, them.

 

I recall you suggesting weeks back that the Vikings won't bring back Kirk again.  I actually at that time thought you might be right.  But it looks like we both end up wrong on that.   But lol, of course there as to be some negative spin for why the Vikings would sign him for a third contract.  😎

 

Look I don't give a rats behind about Kirk now -- he's served his purpose in a grander way than he could have ever done here -- helped  make Bruce a punchline where even Jay makes fun of him through this day on this specific subject.  And the fact that they ranked dead last in QBR ever since Kirk left certainly didn't hurt as for Dan finally throwing in the towell.  Bruce gone got rid of Dan's shield among other things.

 

So like I've said Kirk not coming back was one of the greatest things that ever happened to the franchise IMO but not for the reasons the haters think.

 

I know we ironically disagre about Kirk's weakness, you defend him as to the clutch gene.    For me if he were clutch, he'd easly be top 10.   Slam dunk.  It's not that I think he's awful in the clutch, he has his moments like the playoff game against the Saints.  But too many down moments.  Keim likes to say from all his years watching camp, Howell reminds him in some ways accuracy wise of Kirk and work ethic.    According to him, he's the most accurate QB since Kirk.  He says Kirk's more talkative, loud in practice.  Howell is more quiet.  My point is if Howell's accuracy, work ethic mirrors Kirk but is more clutch -- we got a QB.  Will see.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Stihl89 said:

Unless it says Josh likes him, I couldn’t care less what that building says about him. They are all gone in 6 weeks time. Of course they are going to be in on him. He’s their only chance of sticking around. 
 

Also what a shock that a mid group loves a mid QB

 

I've heard some say Josh indeed does. I mentioned it before.  But I am not sure he's the be all and end all either.  I forgot who said it but I mentioned it on one of the threads, a reporter said i don't know a lot of what they are thinking but I know they like the QB. 

 

Russini also said on her Junkies appearance that asking around the league, Sam has gotten props where some also think he's the answer.

 

But agree that this regime has self serving reasons to push this narrative.

 

As for what the next FO thinks, will see.  But I've heard enough (even Standig referenced it now) that if you are expecting a tear down next off season, you are likely going to be dissappointed with the disclaimer that anything is possible with a new FO.   But strong vibes they want to compete in 2024 right now.  From a business standpoint, it makes sense to me. 

 

How many fans can this franchise lose to the Ravens or whomever with hey just bear with the losing rap some more.  Also is that the environment they want while pushing for a new stadium?   Also this is 21st century -- teams can rebuild fast -- a season or two when they have picks-cap room.  See the Lions. 

 

As far as Howell goes, I think it will work out organically as it should.   If he as you say has a mid type season -- and flashes in that process with the whole offense seemingly on his plate.  No running game.  No defense.  But they have him throw 40 times a game like he's Dan Marino.  You'd figure that's pretty good for a dude who is basically a rookie QB.  Many as you know rookie QBs struggle their first years as starters.

 

Usually guys get three give or take seasons if they show some flashes of success.  For example, the Bears.  I was listening to one of their beat guys talk about their team and Sweat and say he gets the sense they've seen enough from Justin Fields and are ready to move on.  I gather the Patriots likely the same with Mac Jones, etc.    

 

If Howell sucks for most of the rest of the season, I'd gather they look elswhere.   If he plays well, I'd gather they ride with him, simple as that.  Or on the off chance they end up with the first or 2nd pick, they'd go QB, just like another other team would likely do the same.  But the wildcard is what does the new GM think, do they love McCarthy or Penix or whomever?  And reading about Josh I don't think his opinion about Howell is the key, he's likely to defer to the GM.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[justice98]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

The only person in the building that matters is Harris.  The rest of these folks won't be around making it a meaningless report. But playing along, Harris would probably go into the search predisposed to look for a pro-Howell GM and coach then.  Which would still be doing it wrong.  That's the same thing they did when Snyder picked a guy that was committing to play Haskins.  We saw how those dominos played out.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

The only person in the building that matters is Harris.  The rest of these folks won't be around making it a meaningless report. But playing along, Harris would probably go into the search predisposed to look for a pro-Howell GM and coach then.  Which would still be doing it wrong.  That's the same thing they did when Snyder picked a guy that was committing to play Haskins.  We saw how those dominos played out.

 

I think the key part that Russini should have included in that report is that she heard major props from Howell from personnel people from others in the league.   She said that on the Junkies.

 

I get the point that this FO is gone.  But if this was Heinicke or Wentz, they couldn't say the same point with a straight face.  They'd come off like clowns.

 

So at a minimum I'd say its a positive for Howell. 

 

I've been personally a lean positive on Howell since he was taken.  This season hasn't swayed me off the perch.  He's flashed more than Kirk did in his stint at comparable periods in their careers.  And I put stock in Keim who has seen every QB in the last 30 years make that same comparison.

 

Having said that, I still want to see the rest of the season.  I am not 100% decided.  And I am ALWAYS open and always believe in getting an elite QB if they land at your pick.  So to me this isn't Howell versus Caleb or Drake.     I just don't find for starters that elite QBs by college reputation go up for auction in the draft typically.  And the rare times they do, see Wentz, RG3, Trey Lance (in theory) you better be right otherwise the cost is insane.  SF lucky for them were stacked with talent and survived the most.  We didnt.   

Edited November 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've seen some Kirk haters (don't recall your take on it) say no way would the Vikings resign Kirk after the first contract.  But then they did.  Then I recall one poster (not you) say the resigning was proof from the Vikings that they made a mistake in the first contract. . And I do recall who said it.    I know @BatteredFanSyndrome likely remembers that post because we both joked about it, them.

 

I recall you suggesting weeks back that the Vikings won't bring back Kirk again.  I actually at that time thought you might be right.  But it looks like we both end up wrong on that.   But lol, of course there as to be some negative spin for why the Vikings would sign him for a third contract.  😎

 

Look I don't give a rats behind about Kirk now -- he's served his purpose in a grander way than he could have ever done here -- helped  make Bruce a punchline where even Jay makes fun of him through this day on this specific subject.  And the fact that they ranked dead last in QBR ever since Kirk left certainly didn't hurt as for Dan finally throwing in the towell.  Bruce gone got rid of Dan's shield among other things.

 

So like I've said Kirk not coming back was one of the greatest things that ever happened to the franchise IMO but not for the reasons the haters think.

 

I know we ironically disagre about Kirk's weakness, you defend him as to the clutch gene.    For me if he were clutch, he'd easly be top 10.   Slam dunk.  It's not that I think he's awful in the clutch, he has his moments like the playoff game against the Saints.  But too many down moments.  Keim likes to say from all his years watching camp, Howell reminds him in some ways accuracy wise of Kirk and work ethic.    According to him, he's the most accurate QB since Kirk.  He says Kirk's more talkative, loud in practice.  Howell is more quiet.  My point is if Howell's accuracy, work ethic mirrors Kirk but is more clutch -- we got a QB.  Will see.

 

 

 Aside from the ‘clutch’ thing my knock on Cousins is that he’s a system QB. He makes the right reads, gets the ball to the right guy on time most of the time. He does what the coach wants - that’s why Kyle Shanny loved him. 
 

But if the play breaks down or he gets pressure he’s not great at extending and making something outside the scheme . He’s not awful, but it’s a weakness. 
 

I think Howell is already better at extending and creating outside the scheme than Kirk. He’s sound inside the scheme as well and developing. Ultimately I think Howells ceiling is higher than Cousins - remains to be seen if he can reach it. 

[Koolblue13]

I'd like to see Howell run it more.

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 Aside from the ‘clutch’ thing my knock on Cousins is that he’s a system QB. He makes the right reads, gets the ball to the right guy on time most of the time. He does what the coach wants - that’s why Kyle Shanny loved him. 
 

But if the play breaks down or he gets pressure he’s not great at extending and making something outside the scheme . He’s not awful, but it’s a weakness. 
 

I think Howell is already better at extending and creating outside the scheme than Kirk. He’s sound inside the scheme as well and developing. Ultimately I think Howells ceiling is higher than Cousins - remains to be seen if he can reach it. 

 

Cousins, quick release, very good deep ball, good accuracy, protects the ball.  Like Howell he's a bit on an introvert.  Supposedly he's though more talkative than Howell.  Kirk taller.

 

Howell is a much better runner, and has a stronger arm.   More of a stocky built.  Though Kirk has been more durable until this season.    Howell as Keim pointed out doesn't get as down on himself as Kirk did and he thinks that might allow him to bounce back better from bad plays. 

 

But I get what Keim means as to accuracy.  You can see accuracy very well in camp because the QBs throw a ton.  And it sounds like in his years here, Keim has been the most impressed with Kirk among the QBs they've had.  And if he says Howell strikes him the best aside from Kirk, I take that as high praise.

12 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd like to see Howell run it more.

 

Me, too.

[Voice_of_Reason]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd like to see Howell run it more.

I don’t think he has enough pass attempts myself.

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t think he has enough pass attempts myself.

I can’t imagine the amount of time Sam spends in ice baths after games 🙂

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I can’t imagine the amount of time Sam spends in ice baths after games 🙂

He needs one of those pitcher style ice slings for his right arm after a game.  

[MartinC]

28 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He needs one of those pitcher style ice slings for his right arm after a game.  

I’m just glad ice baths were not a thing back in my day. Sounds awful!!

 

Edit. Then again I often couldn’t get socks and shoes on the day after games given the soreness so maybe they should have been a thing …

[Skinsinparadise]

 

They seem to have found a franchise quarterback in Sam Howell, but their offensive line has been a disaster and their defense was suddenly falling apart and frustration was mounting.

 

Worse, two weeks ago, after an ugly loss to the Giants, defensive tackle Jonathan Allen vented about "seven f—ing years of the same s—t". And Magic Johnson, one of Harris' billionaire partners, had been criticizing the team on Twitter, too.

Rivera, according to a team source, had a strong belief that despite all the turmoil, better days were ahead, that a berth in the expanded playoff field wasn't out of reach. But that source said Harris made the decision that building for the future mattered more.

It's just a future that increasingly seems like it won't include Rivera.

 

Rivera was probably on a hot seat already, but now he and general manager Martin Mayhew clearly have to be considered endangered given the way the season has gone and now that their team was stripped of two of their best players. Rivera is now 25-32-1 in his four seasons in Washington, which doesn't inspire confidence. And though he deserves credit for steadying the ship during Dan Snyder's tumultuous reign, that didn't happen on Harris' watch.

There is a feeling around the league that Harris was willing to give Rivera a chance, but is more likely to do one of two things: Either give a long-awaited shot to Commanders offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy if Howell and the offense surge, or try to make a huge splash on the coaching market. The problem with that is there aren't many big-name coaching candidates available, unless he took a risky dip into the college ranks for Jim Harbaugh or Lincoln Riley.

 

But that search is still a long way off. And he also needs someone to run the football operation, too — again, assuming that won't be the tag team of Rivera and Mayhew. And that should be an incredibly attractive job, not just because of Harris' deep pockets. Whomever he hires will have a lot to work with to fix the franchise. They'll have nine picks in the 2024 draft, including those five in the first three rounds. They have two stellar defensive tackles signed to long-term deals — Allen and Daron Payne — and an offense loaded with skill players who'll be back for at least next year, too.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But that search is still a long way off

I bet it’s already well underway.