The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Why do people keep referring to Heinicke as a kid? Hes 29. 

Because it makes it that much easier to justify their thinking that Heinicke can physically improve as time goes on, like arm strength and speed. To anyone else looking at a 7 year veteran who has weak arm strength and a losing record, they'd see someone whose peak is being a backup that can't carry a team for more than a handful of games. To people who see him as a kid, it's why they find it so unthinkable that the team could start and try to develop a rookie over him.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Yes.

https://riggosrag.com/2022/08/02/terry-mclaurin-latest-comments-effectively-end-carson-wentz-slander-contract/amp/

Just now, NickyJ said:

Because it makes it that much easier to justify their thinking that Heinicke can physically improve as time goes on, like arm strength and speed. To anyone else looking at a 7 year veteran who has weak arm strength and a losing record, they'd see someone whose peak is being a backup that can't carry a team for more than a handful of games. To people who see him as a kid, it's why they find it so unthinkable that the team could start and try to develop a rookie over him.

Probably because he’s short too.

[Renegade7]

@BatteredFanSyndrome huge reason is not the same as I'm definetly not coming back unless Wentz is traded for or someone other then Taylor is the starter....

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@BatteredFanSyndrome huge reason is not the same as I'm definetly not coming back unless Wentz is traded for or someone other then Taylor is the starter....

C’mon man, you really think he’s going to say either of those things?  It would be incredibly disrespectful. 
 

He’s said more than what’s there as well, I just pulled the first article I could find on it.

 

 

[Renegade7]

21 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

C’mon man, you really think he’s going to say either of those things?  It would be incredibly disrespectful. 
 

 

No, and that's my point and asking where he said that.

 

21 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

He’s said more than what’s there as well, I just pulled the first article I could find on it.

 

Can definetly tell he was tired of the QB instability, even Alex couldn't fully take advantage of him.

[Koolblue13]

29 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@BatteredFanSyndrome huge reason is not the same as I'm definetly not coming back unless Wentz is traded for or someone other then Taylor is the starter....

It's a known fact. Just like the coaching staff repeatedly saying that we don't have a QB. 

 

You're disappointed in Wentz, so you're ignoring things you know to pretend that Heinickie is some kind of improvement. It's silly.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's a known fact. Just like the coaching staff repeatedly saying that we don't have a QB. 

 

You're disappointed in Wentz, so you're ignoring things you know to pretend that Heinickie is some kind of improvement. It's silly.

 

Are you seriously accusing me of being a Taylor defender right now?   So all the sudden I ask where you got that from and I believe Taylor is an improvement over Wentz?

 

You disappointment me, we've been in damn near lock-step trashing this dude and now all the sudden you think I switched up or can't see my screen name before you respond to me?

 

See...if Terry was dead ass serious about never coming back if Taylor was the starter and that's known fact, I'd like to know how the two of them are hashing that out as we speak now that Taylor is now going to start in a couple days. 

 

Hoping it's still professional and not any chance of potential animosity towards each other.

 

But you took it was believing I think Taylor is better and happy he's in over Wentz? Seriously???

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

See...if Terry was dead ass serious about never coming back if Taylor was the starter and that's known fact, I'd like to know how the two of them are hashing that out as we speak now that Taylor is now going to start in a couple days. 

 

Hoping it's still professional and not any chance of potential animosity towards each other.

I just don’t think Terry is the type of dude who would ever even insinuate such a thing.  That’s mad disrespectful. 

We are only left to read between the lines.  

 

 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Are you seriously accusing me of being a Taylor defender right now?   So all the sudden I ask where you got that from and I believe Taylor is an improvement over Wentz?

 

You disappointment me, we've been in damn near lock-step trashing this dude and now all the sudden you think I switched up or can't see my screen name before you respond to me?

 

See...if Terry was dead ass serious about never coming back if Taylor was the starter and that's known fact, I'd like to know how the two of them are hashing that out as we speak now that Taylor is now going to start in a couple days. 

 

Hoping it's still professional and not any chance of potential animosity towards each other.

 

But you took it was believing I think Taylor is better and happy he's in over Wentz? Seriously???

Sorry if I made that leap. I know we've been in agreement for a long time. It threw me when you didn't believe me about something I thought everyone knew.

 

I don't think it's an animosity thing. I think everyone likes the guy. He's just an awful QB and shouldn't be on a roster.

 

Actually, thinking back, there has got to be animosity if guys are punching each other over how bad he is.

 

It's dumb starting Heinicke. Guy sucks. 

[DJHJR86]

47 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's dumb starting Heinicke. Guy sucks. 

 

He's the backup and the starter is injured.  What else are they to do?  I'd say trading for and paying $28 million dollars to a quarterback who either is on par with or marginally better than the backup whom most people who incessantly post in this thread believe should still be sleeping on his sister's couch is dumb.  

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

He's the backup and the starter is injured.  What else are they to do?  I'd say trading for and paying $28 million dollars to a quarterback who either is on par with or marginally better than the backup whom most people who incessantly post in this thread believe should still be sleeping on his sister's couch is dumb.  

Wentz is not even close to "marginally better" than Taylor ****ing Heinicke. Wentz is a middle of the league starter with a ton of upside. Heinicke can't throw a ****ing out.

 

We're only paying Wentz that much, because we can cut him if we want. Easily could have pushed his money down the road to create cap space if we were sure he was the long term starter.

 

So, is it dumb to be able to cut Wentz or smart? That's the point you're arguing, even if you don't realize it.

 

I can only assume you didn't watch the WFT last year if you think Heinicke should be a starter, even as a back up.

 

There is ZERO reason to start him. Guys out of the league next year, definitely off the team. Just play Howell for a month. They'd run the same offense of smash mouth like we did last year to cover up how ****ty Heini was, but we'd do it to protect a rookie who has the arm of an adult.

[DJHJR86]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Wentz is a middle of the league starter with a ton of upside.

 

If this is true, why did you change the title of the thread?  I thought the future was "bright" with Commander Carson?

 

[NickyJ]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

If this is true, why did you change the title of the thread?  I thought the future was "bright" with Commander Carson?

 

I'm pretty sure he changed it because Commander Carson is going to be healing his broken finger for the next 4-6 weeks.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

If this is true, why did you change the title of the thread?  I thought the future was "bright" with Commander Carson?

 

Oh, you didn't hear? He got injured.

 

and it said Howell bright the future is, like don't start **** sack Tay Tay. Couch that bum and start Howell.

[DJHJR86]

5 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I'm pretty sure he changed it because Commander Carson is going to be healing his broken finger for the next 4-6 weeks.

 

It was changed, pre injury, when Wentz was stinking up the joint and converting 3 third downs out of 22.  Now he's angry that the backup is playing...because the starter is injured.  And he wants to throw a rookie who, by all accounts from every single person who covers this team, is not ready, to the wolves.

 

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Oh, you didn't hear? He got injured.

 

and it said Howell bright the future is, like don't start **** sack Tay Tay. Couch that bum and start Howell.

 

You changed it before the injury and were conspicuously absent in this thread the last 4-5 weeks.  Commander Carson was a terrible fit for this team.  Howell isn't going to start.  He isn't ready.  Barring injury, unless you aren't a fan of this team, you're going to have to get behind "Tay Tay" because he is now the starter for the team you allege to be a fan of (while also saying you are an Eagles fan, which would explain your loyalty to Wentz).

Edited October 19, 2022 by DJHJR86

[Koolblue13]

57 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It was changed, pre injury, when Wentz was stinking up the joint and converting 3 third downs out of 22.  Now he's angry that the backup is playing...because the starter is injured.  And he wants to throw a rookie who, by all accounts from every single person who covers this team, is not ready, to the wolves.

 

 

You changed it before the injury and were conspicuously absent in this thread the last 4-5 weeks.  Commander Carson was a terrible fit for this team.  Howell isn't going to start.  He isn't ready.  Barring injury, unless you aren't a fan of this team, you're going to have to get behind "Tay Tay" because he is now the starter for the team you allege to be a fan of (while also saying you are an Eagles fan, which would explain your loyalty to Wentz).

First, your post is riff with stalker creepiness, but your timeline is off.

 

I changed the title a couple days ago, after the injury. I've been absent, because the negativity when things get rough here is pathetic and I can't stand it. People (points at you) say some of the dumbest ****.

 

I am not loyal to Wentz, I think he's the best QB we've had in years. He is.

 

I have explained how I follow both teams numerous times. I've leaned more eagles the last year, because the whine and cheese fans in DC are a joke, the eagles aren't just good, but a hell of a lot of fun to follow and because I was a redskins fan and whatever the **** this is most likely will die very soon.

[samy316]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Wentz is not even close to "marginally better" than Taylor ****ing Heinicke. Wentz is a middle of the league starter with a ton of upside. Heinicke can't throw a ****ing out.

 

We're only paying Wentz that much, because we can cut him if we want. Easily could have pushed his money down the road to create cap space if we were sure he was the long term starter.

 

So, is it dumb to be able to cut Wentz or smart? That's the point you're arguing, even if you don't realize it.

 

I can only assume you didn't watch the WFT last year if you think Heinicke should be a starter, even as a back up.

 

There is ZERO reason to start him. Guys out of the league next year, definitely off the team. Just play Howell for a month. They'd run the same offense of smash mouth like we did last year to cover up how ****ty Heini was, but we'd do it to protect a rookie who has the arm of an adult.

 

 

I've seen enough of Wentz to know that he's definitely NOT a middle of the pack starter anymore.  He's too immobile, inaccurate and turnover-prone.  He still has an elite arm, but he literally has no other adequate talents as a QB anymore.  2017 Carson Wentz was definitely a Top 10 QB, but he's hard pressed to be even a Top 20 QB.  He's now bottom 3rd QB at best, however, he STILL is better than Heinicke.  That being said, Wentz just played his LAST game as a starter in this league.  He will definitely be a backup QB at best going forward.

Edited October 19, 2022 by samy316

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 10/16/2022 at 10:32 AM, skinny21 said:

Hmm.  You really got me thinking about this.  Forget about Heinicke for a moment (I agree of course that his arm absolutely limits, or all but wipes out the long ball, which is key to Turner’s Coryell system)… is our deep game really the best part of our offense?  I suppose it depends on how you classify it.

 

McKissick, Gibson and Samuel I see as better in the short game - slightly different profiles from each of them, but pretty similar flavor/style, and Turner and Thomas are seemingly best in the intermediate areas.  Terry and Dotson strike me as all around guys.  Bates isn’t a deep guy.  I’m not so sure how to classify Milne and Sims, but something like mostly short-intermediate for the former and intermediate-deep for the latter.  And then of course there’s Dyami, who so far is purely a deep ball threat.

 

Of course, even if my opinion is that the strength of our weapons is the short-intermediate area, the big play threat can/does obviously open up the field (and we basically lose that with TH), and that includes impacting the ground game.  I guess my conclusion might be that I don’t think the deep strike ability is the best part of the O, but I can agree that it’s a pretty crucial element.

 

Makes me wonder whether we’d be better off with more of a West coast style offense - fits our weapons and, in theory, makes building/improving the oline a bit easier.

I know I'm late to respond to this, but the problem is, when the defense doesn't have to respect anything more than 10 yards past the LOS, the field compresses, because they have more defenders in a shorter area.

 

They are assuming if TH launches one deep, it's going to hang in the air, and whoever they have playing some version of man on the deep threat can make up the distance and break up the pass.

 

So instead of keeping a safety deep, that player is up, which means they are in the back pocket of Gibson, McKissic or Samuel.

 

You have to be able to run off coverage, or the defense collapses.  This makes the running game harder and the quick game harder.  

 

It's why I believe you HAVE to have a semblance of an NFL arm to even be a backup QB in the league.  You just make everything harder when you don't have the threat of stretching the defense.  

In hindsight, re-signing and TH was a huge mistake.  He was on his sister's couch for a reason, and he should have been returned there after the emergency spot in the Tampa playoff game.  

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

 

I've seen enough of Wentz to know that he's definitely NOT a middle of the pack starter anymore.  He's too immobile, inaccurate and turnover-prone.  He's now a bottom 3rd QB at best, however, he STILL is better than Heinicke.  That being said, Wentz just played his LAST game as a starter in this league.  He will definitely be a backup QB at best going forward.

Game planning and no interior Oline may have had an effect. Not absolving Wentz of blame, but I'm not putting it on his shoulders completely either.

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think he's the best QB we've had in years. He is.

 

He's not even as good as Colt McCoy was here.  This is just a delusional take.  The quarterback who is currently 27th in QBR is not the "best QB we've had in years".  My God I thought the "Hive" was annoying.  

Edited October 19, 2022 by DJHJR86

[NeverSurrender]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I know I'm late to respond to this, but the problem is, when the defense doesn't have to respect anything more than 10 yards past the LOS, the field compresses, because they have more defenders in a shorter area.

 

And you are the "voice of reason"?

[NickyJ]

38 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

And you are the "voice of reason"?

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

He's not even as good as Colt McCoy was here.  This is just a delusional take.  The quarterback who is currently 27th in QBR is not the "best QB we've had in years".  My God I thought the "Hive" was annoying.  

Sorry, I know your take is usually a delusional take.

It's reactionary.

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

He's not even as good as Colt McCoy was here.  This is just a delusional take.  The quarterback who is currently 27th in QBR is not the "best QB we've had in years".  My God I thought the "Hive" was annoying.  

Nobody who ever watched Colt McCoy would ever take that up as a reference, except people who actually remember Colt ****ing McCoy, so I don't know what to say.

[wit33]

Last season Heineke ran for 39 total yards over his last 6 games— terrible, this must change for him to be effective. 
 

Forget the arm strength stuff, he’s proven he can move the chains at a solid level, but he must use his lone super power throughout games. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, NeverSurrender said:

And you are the "voice of reason"?

Yep. Anybody who can't understand how a noodle armed QB effects the entire offense and has absolutely no logic or reason, just emotion and hope.  

 

Emotion and hope never won anything.