The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I cannot shake the feeling that Snyder is going to meddle his way into decisions again.  

 

It's always possible that our moron owner interferes.  I can't rule that out. 

[redskinss]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Logan Paulsen just now on 106.7. He likes what he’s seen from Willis especially after being around him at the combine. He likes the idea of taking him at 11 if he’s there.

Of course he does that's how the pre draft process works.

First stage is a guy finishes his college career as a late second early 3rd round prospect.

He then takes a test asking him which triangular shape is next in the sequence and he moves up to middle of the second round.

After that he gives an interview in which he seems like a guy you'd really like to have a beer with and that catapults him into the late first early second round area.

Next he then throws on a t-shirt and a pair of shorts and completes passes to an uncovered receiver also wearing a t-shirt and shorts, this immediately moves him into the discussion for top ten.

Lastly he lines up and runs 40 yards as fast as he can in shorts and a t-shirt which propels him into the top 5 gotta trade up to have a chance at him phase, (we aren't quite there yet)

Last stage is he gets grossly overdrafted and fails to live up to any of the hype.

 

I'm obviously being a little facetious but this really does happen to so many players every year, especially quarterbacks. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

 

I'm obviously being a little facetious but this really does happen to so many players every year, especially quarterbacks. 

 

 

In defense of Logan he's made the rounds both on TV and the radio studying these QBs a lot precombine.  He did a ton of radio segments on it.   It was talked about on this thread multiple times.  He was intrigued by Willis precombine.  But the combine tipped the balance for him.  

 

He could end up dead wrong.  But he's making that call based on things beyond purely the combine. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Pro Football Network Mock

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2022-7-round-nfl-mock-draft-jordan-davis-aidan-hutchinson-rise/

2) Detroit Lions: Malik Willis, QB, Liberty

It’s the worst-kept secret in the world that the Lions love Aidan Hutchinson. Not only is Hutchinson a home-grown talent, but he screams “Dan Campbell” with his relentless motor and energy. His athletic testing only made top-five capital a certainty for him. But there’s a wild card in this conversation, and that’s the sheer depth of the EDGE class. If Detroit likes a QB enough, they could take that passer here and still get high-level talent later on.

Right now, the quarterback who looks most likely to go this high is Liberty’s Malik Willis. He’s still a mixed bag on film, but he’s reportedly aced the offseason, showing off a solid game IQ and franchise quarterback charisma in interviews. The physical talent has never been a question, so if a team like Detroit — which coached him at the Senior Bowl — thinks he has the mindset to grow into a star with proper development, there’s no other choice but to take him here before someone else does. Quarterback is that important.

 

9) Denver Broncos: Matt Corral, QB, Ole Miss

Still working on getting back to 100% after injuring his ankle in the season, Matt Corral only went through interviews at the 2022 NFL Combine. Testing isn’t particularly important for Corral, who’s already well-known as a dynamic athlete. For NFL teams, the questions may revolve around his size — he showed up at 212 pounds in Indianapolis — and his impact as a leader.

During interviews, however, Corral likely put questions regarding his character to rest. He’s a dynamic, energized competitor on the field. But at the podium, he’s detailed, thoughtful, and honest when speaking with reporters. The Broncos also got a chance to meet with Corral 1-on-1. If he won them over in that meeting, winning them over on the field shouldn’t be an issue. He has the athleticism, toughness, off-script ability, and elastic arm to be an elevating starter.

 

11) Washington Commanders: Kenny Pickett, QB, Pittsburgh

The discourse surrounding Kenny Pickett‘s hand size reached tiresome levels a while ago. That discourse was only emboldened when Pickett officially measured in with 8 1/2″ hands at the 2022 NFL Combine. It remains a historic outlier, but at this point, it’s not a reason to rule Pickett out. There’s yet to be definitive proof that it impacts him more than other signal-callers.

By now, teams know how they feel about the hand size. But Pickett has a lot of other redeeming qualities. His arm, while not elite, is good, and it’s elastic enough to help him generate velocity off-platform. He’s also a great athlete and proved as such at the Combine. He’s a leader, a tough competitor, and a sturdy processor with eye manipulation in his toolbox. To me, Pickett can become a Derek Carr-type of QB fairly early in his career. If you’re Washington and you can get him on a rookie deal, you take that swing.

 

18) New Orleans Saints: Sam Howell, QB, North Carolina

Sam Howell only made two out of five free throws during the Eagles’ Combine meeting. That’s a red flag that can be tough to get past. But throwing that aside, Howell is a solid quarterback prospect. He hasn’t commanded consensus appeal because of an up-and-down 2021 season. Nevertheless, Howell’s done well to prove in offseason events that he’s at least worth investing in.

 

Howell is a solid athlete with a live arm and competitive toughness. And in interviews, he comes across as humble and personable. While neither his arm nor his athleticism is elite, you’re still looking at a passer who could become a top-12 quarterback in the league if he reaches his peak. For the Saints, who are strapped for cap and could stand to reset at QB, investing in Howell could yield major dividends.

 

20) Pittsburgh Steelers: Desmond Ridder, QB, Cincinnati

From a character perspective, this QB class has plenty of appeal. Willis, Pickett, Howell, and Corral have all drawn rave reviews for their interview work. But Desmond Ridder also deserves recognition. He was a vital program leader for his Cincinnati Bearcats, and his personality is infectious at the podium. When asked if he would test and why, Ridder — with just the right amount of charm — said, “Uh … because I’m gonna be great at them.”

And great he was. Ridder ran a blazing 4.49 40-yard dash and also logged a 36-inch vertical and a 127-inch broad jump. Ridder is rough around the edges in several ways, but there’s a lot of moldable clay. He doesn’t have to convince teams he’s perfect. Rather, he only has to convince them he’s worth the investment. If he can kick a few bad mechanical habits and improve his decision-making, Ridder has the physical talent to be an impact starter at QB. A team like Pittsburgh, with a bridge in place, could take that chance.

 

60) Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Carson Strong, QB, Nevada

It seems like one quarterback is bound to fall in the 2022 NFL Draft. In this 7-Round 2022 NFL Mock Draft, that quarterback is Carson Strong. With lacking mobility, a knee injury in his history, and questions surrounding his interviewing, Strong has the least security of the top QBs. There’s no denying his arm, however. It may be the best in the class, and that’s why he shouldn’t fall out of Round 2. He has the arm to maximize Bruce Arians’ downfield attack.

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In defense of Logan he's made the rounds both on TV and the radio studying these QBs a lot precombine.  He did a ton of radio segments on it.   Talked about on this thread multiple times.  He was intrigued by Willis precombine.  But the combine tipped the balance for him.  

 

He could end up dead wrong.  But he's making that call based on things beyond purely the combine. 

I didn't mean for it to be an indictment of Logan just the process in general. 

Last year it was mac jones and trey lance.

I remember in January most people thinking jones was a second round prospect and trey lance was a very raw (somewhere in the first round) prospect with huge upside.

By April nobody could figure out which one of them the 49ers had traded multiple first round picks to acquire at number 3.

It's just funny how meteoric the rise of stock gets for quarterbacks when so little new information becomes available. 

I'm guessing it's done a lot more by the fans than the teams, they probably have a much better idea of a players value when the college season ends than we do.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Brugler's new mock from this morning, first I've seen that i can recall with Corral in the 2nd round

 

 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

I forgot that the Falcons and Lions both pick before us, and both could use a rookie quarterback.  I still think the Falcons go Willis.  

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

@Skinsinparadise, thank you for the medical post on Strong. Very informative.  has been the guy I felt Washington really liked as a fall back in the 2nd round. I did not realize the extent of the surgery he had. As a result I could see him off some team boards. 

I've seen some mocks having him not make it past Pittsburgh at 20, I actually like Strong a lot if the med staff sign off on his knee. But "hoping" for him to slip to 2-11 is a big gamble if thats your plan. And obviously the extra year option for 1st round picks helps you keep him if he pans out. Get your MLB or BPA at #11 and then make a trade to get back in the 1st round. I'm wondering if 2-11 and Payne could make that happen

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I've seen some mocks having him not make it past Pittsburgh at 20, I actually like Strong a lot if the med staff sign off on his knee. But "hoping" for him to slip to 2-11 is a big gamble if thats your plan. And obviously the extra year option for 1st round picks helps you keep him if he pans out. Get your MLB or BPA at #11 and then make a trade to get back in the 1st round. I'm wondering if 2-11 and Payne could make that happen

 

Are you talking about Willis here or Strong as for where he falls? 

 

 

 

On another note, maybe so, that's why i am hoping the Seahawks don't like Hurts

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

59 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I forgot that the Falcons and Lions both pick before us, and both could use a rookie quarterback.  I still think the Falcons go Willis.  

 

I imagine the Falcons be hunting for a WR with that pick.  LOL

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Discussion on The Junkies reference Watson and Lurch mentioned the judge on the case will make a decision April 1st. 

 

I wonder how that effects what teams do in FA which starts in a little over a week?  I mean in terms of teams wanting to sign a Mariota or Trubisky or whoever day one?

 

 

Lurch is (as normal) not exactly accurate.  From what I understand, Watson's deposition starts this Friday.  When that is over (and it might take more than a day, who knows), then it's my understanding the DA will spend some time deciding whether or not to bring criminal charges against Watson.  

 

Watson's attorney said he believes the District Attorney (DA) will make that decision BY April 1st.  HOWEVER, the DA has absolutely no timeline they have to work towards, I don't believe.  So, if they wanted to, they could really just screw with Watson and drag this out for months.  

 

This is where it gets fuzzy for me: I believe there is some component of a grand jury to this, and I'm not exactly sure what that process is.  I think the DA decides to bring charges, they present them to a grand jury, and the jury decides if there is enough evidence to try him for criminal misconduct.  I think.  I could be totally wrong about all of that.

 

 There isn't a judge involved yet on the criminal side, I don't believe, because no criminal charges have been filed.  You will know if/when criminal charges have been filed because Watson will be arrested.  Most likely, he would just drive to the police station, turn himself in, make bail, and leave.  But that would be on the news for sure.

 

Lurch's overall point was kindof close to the truth, but not exactly right.  

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Brugler's new mock from this morning, first I've seen that i can recall with Corral in the 2nd round

 

 

 

 

Its pretty wild how far apart some of these mocks are. Fun reading never the less. 

[Mrshadow008]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

Lurch is (as normal) not exactly accurate.  From what I understand, Watson's deposition starts this Friday.  When that is over (and it might take more than a day, who knows), then it's my understanding the DA will spend some time deciding whether or not to bring criminal charges against Watson.  

 

Watson's attorney said he believes the District Attorney (DA) will make that decision BY April 1st.  HOWEVER, the DA has absolutely no timeline they have to work towards, I don't believe.  So, if they wanted to, they could really just screw with Watson and drag this out for months.  

 

This is where it gets fuzzy for me: I believe there is some component of a grand jury to this, and I'm not exactly sure what that process is.  I think the DA decides to bring charges, they present them to a grand jury, and the jury decides if there is enough evidence to try him for criminal misconduct.  I think.  I could be totally wrong about all of that.

 

 There isn't a judge involved yet on the criminal side, I don't believe, because no criminal charges have been filed.  You will know if/when criminal charges have been filed because Watson will be arrested.  Most likely, he would just drive to the police station, turn himself in, make bail, and leave.  But that would be on the news for sure.

 

Lurch's overall point was kindof close to the truth, but not exactly right.  

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/17/deshaun-watson-grand-jury-probe-is-expected-to-conclude-by-late-january/

 

The case has been in front of Grand Jury since December and was supposed to be wrapped up by end of January. Likely they dont have enough to charge him and trying to wait and see if he testifies in civil cases in hopes he implicates himself. They had 8 police reports, access to his cell phone, social media, and cash app etc. So im guessing if they had enough to charge him they wouldve done so already

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

I'm just having flashbacks to 2019 with all of this.  We have a QB on the roster right now, who some think could actually start for this team, as we did back in 2019 prior to any free ageny moves or trades.

 

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/colt-mccoy-could-enter-2019-redskins-starting-qb/486219

 

Then they traded for a slightly better journeyman than the one already on the roster.  This is what most local guys are saying now: it's most likely going to be Trubisky or Mariota.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26174723/sources-broncos-trading-keenum-redskins

 

The local guys start to hype up a boom or bust project.  Local guys are all in on the Malik Willis train right now.  Standig, Finlay, Keim, etc.  

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/story/_/id/26388916/tracing-roots-dwayne-haskins-football-journey

 

We draft said project, in the 3rd year of a 5 year coaching tenure.  The slightly better journeyman actually sucks just as much or more than the guy we had on the roster, so we are forced to play the rookie.  Rookie does some nice things towards the end of the season to justify sticking with him.  Then 2020 happens.  I pray this isn't the scenario but it's giving me flashbacks.

I'm not really sure it's apples to apples. Here's why:

 

1.  Literally the only person on the planet apart from Colt, his family, and MAYBE his agent who thought Colt could start was Jay Gruden. It just so happened he was the HC.  Maybe there were a few fans here or there, but not a lot.  Almost everybody thought we needed an upgrade. I think right now there are 2 people on this board who think TH can start any games for the Commanders. Everybody else has realized he can't  So we have exactly zero starters on the roster at all.  The difference here is Jay thought Colt could start, and Ron does not think TH can start.  That's a huge difference.  

 

2. Dan loved Haskins, and everybody KNEW we were going to draft him at 15, so there was never really an opportunity to do anything other than get another stop-gap.  We were not going to trade #15 anywhere as part of a trade to get a better starter.  Also, we weren't going to trade up to get a better prospect.  We were staying at 15 and picking Haskins.  Period. And that decision influenced everything else they did.

 

3. Ron and team have been trying DESPERATELY not to have to go what I have been calling the "Mitch Mariota" + Rookie route.  There is a confirmed trade offer for Wilson.  They might make another one.  They are in on Watson.  They will be in on Carr if he's available  They have at least investigated Jimmy G. and Wentz.  They REALLY don't want to go this way, but as it's been said a bunch of times, you can only swing at pitches which are thrown.  It's possible the only pitch this off-season to swing at will be Watson, and that pitch won't come until after the criminal charges have been decided.  

 

So there might not be anything else BUT the "Mitch Mariota" + Rookie as an option.  Whereas in 2019, we didn't explore any other options other than McCoy, Keenum + Haskins.  

 

I think the situations are vastly different, even though it's possible the results might be the same.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

20 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I imagine the Falcons be hunting for a WR with that pick.  LOL

 

This is such a loaded WR class too. I bet Atlanta would be a spot we could trade up to from #11 if we wanted to leapfrog Denver. My sense is Denver is going to be where Rodgers goes, and #9 will go to Green Bay, who also will probably want a WR or trade down. So it might not be as necessarily at to leapfrog Denver at that point.

[Chris 44]

8 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/17/deshaun-watson-grand-jury-probe-is-expected-to-conclude-by-late-january/

 

The case has been in front of Grand Jury since December and was supposed to be wrapped up by end of January. Likely they dont have enough to charge him and trying to wait and see if he testifies in civil cases in hopes he implicates himself. They had 8 police reports, access to his cell phone, social media, and cash app etc. So im guessing if they had enough to charge him they wouldve done so already

Generally the old saying of "you could indict a ham sandwich" comes to mind. If they are having difficulty getting a true bill from a grand jury that might be telling. But who knows what evidence has been presented and which incidents were presented. 

[DJHJR86]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think the situations are vastly different, even though it's possible the results might be the same.  

 

This is what frightens me the most.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/17/deshaun-watson-grand-jury-probe-is-expected-to-conclude-by-late-january/

 

The case has been in front of Grand Jury since December and was supposed to be wrapped up by end of January. Likely they dont have enough to charge him and trying to wait and see if he testifies in civil cases in hopes he implicates himself. They had 8 police reports, access to his cell phone, social media, and cash app etc. So im guessing if they had enough to charge him they wouldve done so already

Thanks for the link.  The thing is, it hasn't yet.  

 

I heard on the Galdi podcast this morning Watson's deposition was supposed to start on Friday.  This deposition is part of the CIVIL cases, and not the criminal cases.  Watson's lawyer was trying to stall the proceedings until after the Harris County DA decides to press charges:

 

(From the ESPN Article):

Quote

Hardin said in court on Monday that the Harris County District Attorney will likely decide by April 1 whether Watson will be criminally charged. The district attorney's office and Houston Police have declined to comment on the status of the criminal case against Watson.

 

It's very unclear if that is actually the timeline for the DA, because the DA and Houston police have declined comment. Maybe they make a decision by April 1, maybe they don't.  Nobody really knows. But at the moment, the case is still pending.  

 

Also, I assume whatever Watson says under oath in the Civil case COULD be used in the criminal case.  Which is why his legal team wants to postpone the civil deposition.  

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This is what frightens me the most.

Yeah, but it won't be from lack of trying.  Which is the big difference.  Dan wanted Haskins as the face of the franchise.  Against the objection of the football people.  That was the big mistake in 2019.  It meant they didn't try anything else.  This year they are literally trying everything.  You can't really fault them if it doesn't work.  

 

AND it also won't preclude them from doing something else next year.

 

Look, let's say they sign "Mitch Mariota" and then draft somebody.  Anybody.  Pickett.  Willis.  Ridder.  Strong.  And they still end up 8-9-ish.  

 

There is absolutely no reason they couldn't try again next year.  We've seen teams move on from QBs in their second year.  The one thing I'm absolutely sure of is they are not going to do something this year which they can't get out of and try again next year if they need to.  And they need to keep trying anything they can for as long as they can until they get a guy they believe in.  

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Orlovosky I guess is coming around on him.  He's been wrong though, really wrong on some players.  Only reason why this got my attention was he was critical of Pickett last week in the mix of his comments so I gather something changed. 

 

 

 

 

 

As you correctly noted, an attaboy from Orlovsky is the qb evaluation equivalent of the kiss of death.

 

As a result I have just instructed the draft evaluation division here at CITR llc to take him off our first round projection boards going forward.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[bowhunter]

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Are you talking about Willis here or Strong as for where he falls? 

 

Are you talking about Willis here or Strong as for where he falls?

 

Sorry SIP, was referring to Strong. I actually like him and Corral the best. This draft will be hard to predict where the QBs will fall. I would think that Strong could last into round 2 or even later, but I wouldn't be willing to gamble on that if he was the teams plan.

Edited March 8, 2022 by bowhunter

[Mrshadow008]

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

Generally the old saying of "you could indict a ham sandwich" comes to mind. If they are having difficulty getting a true bill from a grand jury that might be telling. But who knows what evidence has been presented and which incidents were presented. 

There's a lot to the entire situation that tends to get ignored or glossed over when it comes to this situation that Im not gonna get into here because it will get misconstrued as defending Watson when that wouldnt be the case.

 

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Thanks for the link.  The thing is, it hasn't yet.  

 

I heard on the Galdi podcast this morning Watson's deposition was supposed to start on Friday.  This deposition is part of the CIVIL cases, and not the criminal cases.  Watson's lawyer was trying to stall the proceedings until after the Harris County DA decides to press charges:

 

(From the ESPN Article):

 

It's very unclear if that is actually the timeline for the DA, because the DA and Houston police have declined comment. Maybe they make a decision by April 1, maybe they don't.  Nobody really knows. But at the moment, the case is still pending.  

 

Also, I assume whatever Watson says under oath in the Civil case COULD be used in the criminal case.  Which is why his legal team wants to postpone the civil deposition.  

I understand the deposition is part of the civil cases. And I was wrong about Grand Jury investigation but only by timeline. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/deshaun-watson-grand-jury-massage-texans/uolhdm9xzxns1uuut8hj60hvj  The Grand Jury investigation has actually been going on since August not December.

(From Sporting News Article)

"Prosecutors in Houston have begun a grand jury investigation of Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson, who is accused in 22 civil lawsuits and 10 criminal complaints of sexual misconduct and sexual assault, according to multiple Friday reports." "The timetable for the grand jury investigation is not known. Jurors will try to determine whether there is sufficient evidence to charge Watson with a crime. Two dozen women, all of them massage therapists, have accused him of offenses ranging from unwanted touching to forced oral sex during massage sessions."

[HigSkin]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notebook-panthers-get-multiple-calls-about-a-potential-christian-mccaffrey-trade-and-latest-buzz/

 

Don't expect Falcons to trade Ryan

I have little reason to think the Atlanta Falcons are going to trade Matt Ryan at the start of free agency. The longtime Falcons signal caller has a historically large cap hit of $48 million, and the Falcons desperately need some cap relief. But it won't come by trading away the QB.

I asked head coach Arthur Smith where the draft was specifically deep and maybe what positions the Falcons could target in a few weeks. "We need help everywhere," he said flatly.

 

Leading candidate to land Rodgers if he's traded

We're all still on Aaron Rodgers watch. He'll either return to Green Bay and sign a deal worth up to or more than $50 million per year or force his way out via a trade to a place like Denver, Pittsburgh or Tennessee. If traded, my leading candidate remains the Broncos. Once dealt for something that'll look like two first-round picks plus a Pro Bowl-like player on a manageable contract, the Broncos would then sign Rodgers to an extension that would essentially be the same one he has on the table from Green Bay. Whether he informs the Packers of his decision by Tuesday afternoon's tag deadline (as he promised earlier) or drags this out more is anyone's guess.

 

More insider notes

• I think the reality of Deshaun Watson's legal situation led to the relative crickets on his trade prospects. The unknown is scaring teams right now. Texans GM Nick Caserio has been comfortable with taking this up to draft night in order to get the compensation he wants for dealing a franchise quarterback, but he may have to do it out of pure necessity. It may prove to be a miscalculation on Caserio's part.

 

• Perhaps no player did himself more favors this week at the combine than Liberty QB Malik Willis. From his on-field performance, to his viral act of goodwill to the interview room, Willis can walk away from Indianapolis knowing he did everything he could to improve his stock.

[SoCalSkins]

If the grand jury doesn’t indict him it’s pretty much a money grab on the civil side. The threshold to bring an indictment out of a grand jury is minimal. However, I doubt he gets indicted. I also doubt much punishment from the NFL since they didn’t do anything to Kraft. 

[Mrshadow008]

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

If the grand jury doesn’t indict him it’s pretty much a money grab on the civil side. The threshold to bring an indictment out of a grand jury is minimal. However, I doubt he gets indicted. I also doubt much punishment from the NFL since they didn’t do anything to Kraft. 

I also think the fact that he sat out all of last year would play into any possible punishment that comes from the NFL if there are no criminal charges. Obviously dont know that for sure because he still got paid but either way he still sat all year.

[markmills67]

We need to get a move on, free agency starts in 6 days, we don't want to be rushing around at the last minute with which players we want according to which QB we have or want.