The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MrJL]

28 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

What you have to factor in when trading #1s for a stud QB is that you're gonna be a contender with that QB, which means those picks aren't gonna be high. You're not gonna be picking in the top 10 or even top 20 with Aaron Rodgers or Russel Wilson. You're gonna be picking 28, 29, 30 etc. I'd gladly give up three picks in the 28+ range for a Rodgers or Wilson.

 

yeah, that's a little to presumptuous for me.  I'll stick to expecting 19-24

Edited February 27, 2022 by MrJL

[Koolblue13]

Ridder is the only QB I'd draft this year, if I drafted anyone. The East is being built on 2nd rounders.

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim has said efforts, yes, but doubt Seattle budges

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Play making is my main differentiator with the above to average QBs, no doubt. It’s also what you have to pay QB 10-14 or whatever for me. Stafford is/was a financial asset at the QB spot at around 10% of the cap for the SB champs. 10% is the sweet spot number, in my opinion. 

 

 

Rams paid over 40 million on the cap for both Goff and Stafford last year.  The Rams aren't obsessed with cap/QB %.  They are obsessed with getting good QB play.

 

I'd put money that Stafford doesn't give the Rams the Brady style discount you have said you think is going down.   But will see. 

 

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

It’s an easy connection to make and agree Carr has his supporters, but doesn’t seem to be at the same level of Stafford. Many here felt Kirk Cousins would flourish with a top flight organization, that didn’t happen. 

 

It's pretty darn close to what it was with Stafford.  To bring the point more local. Just among recently, Jay Gruden who I know you respect as for his offensive mind and has talked to his brother about the player, loves Carr, he'd give up 3 first rounders.  As I mentioned Paulsen gushed.   Cooley.  Plenty of others. I think if Stafford has an edge its by a hair.

 

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

This is a unique perspective that I will lean on as I’ve never been to a home Washington game. I agree Wilson would do wonders for the excitement, so you’re right in that regard. Expecting playoffs is a huge step for this organization and Wilson would provide that. I concede to your overall view on Wilson. No way would I be upset if it were to happen.  

 

 

I'd add to that point any mediocre QB would be greeted by most fans with yawn,  They can gives a rats behind that its a nice deal under the cap.

 

It's a Qb league and i believe they are tired of this team being in the "have nots" club.  Doesn't matter the context.  There are not going to sell tickets by hey we signed Trubisky and got him cheap so now for all those concerned Daron Payne isn't going anywhere.   I think many fans see this as a loserville team who never play in the A list playground with the big boys.  We are a perpetual outsider team looking jealously at the insiders, hoping that we get lucky with an outlier approach, it hasn't worked for 30 years but hopefully someday if we catch some breaks we can be that lightening in the bottle Nick Foles Eagles team. 

 

Part of the reason why even I got pessimistic about any of these big name QBs is that it just seems so unreal it doesn't fit this franchise.   So for those here who get finicky about it.  Of all the points argued here, that stuns me the most on 2 levels. 1.  It would be something this franchise hasn't had in decades.  2.  It seems beyond obvious to be a potential franchise saver.  The fact that Lamar Jackson is the hottest jersey sale not just in Maryland but also Virginia says it all.

 

Guys like JP Finlay with young kids said he hardly ever sees young kids in the DMV wear Commanders/Redskins jerseys.  They are wearing star jerseys from other players on other teams. 

 

 

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

. Carr doesn’t feel pressure or escape well at all—this well documented and a main issue amongst fans and media of the Raiders.

 

What QB likes pressure? It's the way to beat most QBs.  But the idea that he's worst at it compared to others is a fantasy-frustration driven thing not backed up by stats. Stats show the reverse actually.  The Raiders fans (their media less so judging by some segments I listened to before our game against them) are no doubt frustrated with him.  I take that with a grain of salt though.  I follow a lot of team reporters so I get to see a lot of fan feedback.  And the net of it is fans are frustrated with their QBs, all of them, with the exception of the elite ones.  And even the elite ones they are frustrated with when they hit a skid.  If we are running with fan frustration almost every QB 8-32 would be run out of town.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

If we genuinely are going after Wilson, I think the offer we ultimately make may be something in the order of our first and second round picks for the next three years. Yep, 3 firsts and 3 seconds. Even that may not be enough.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

If we genuinely are going after Wilson, I think the offer we ultimately make may be something in the order of our first and second round picks for the next three years. Yep, 3 firsts and 3 seconds. Even that may not be enough.

 

Will see.  The reason for the pessimissm from me.  Is the common refrain I keep hearing is:

 

A.  Seahawks really really really really don't want to trade him

B.  They'd only trade him if Wilson insists on a trade

C.  Wilson hasn't insisted on a trade yet

D.  Like the Packers are doing with Rodgers, Seattle is supposedly kissing up to Wilson in every way possible

[Est.1974]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Will see.  The reason for the pessimissm from me.  Is the common refrain I keep hearing is:

 

A.  Seahawks really really really really don't want to trade him

B.  They'd only trade him if Wilson insists on a trade

C.  Wilson hasn't insisted on a trade yet

D.  Like the Packers are doing with Rodgers, Seattle is supposedly kissing up to Wilson in every way possible

Agree, I think a trade is highly unlikely. Wilson would need to force the issue.

 

Hopefully we get more clarity on the whole QB situation across the league in the coming week of the combine.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Ridder is the only QB I'd draft this year, if I drafted anyone. The East is being built on 2nd rounders.

If he shows well at the combine and private workouts I see him going late in the the 1st round. He just has so many tools, traits and size, teams will want him and that 5th year under contract.

[Est.1974]

Great opportunity for leading our fresh start...

 

I think that is an important factor, in that we have rebranded the organisation and finding a QB intrigued by being part of that is critical.

 

Oh and the guaranteed money we are prepared to offer.

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

So if true and this the pitch Rivera is making to Wilson, doesn’t that imply we’ve been given permission to talk to him and his reps ?? 

[Koolblue13]

18 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

If he shows well at the combine and private workouts I see him going late in the the 1st round. He just has so many tools, traits and size, teams will want him and that 5th year under contract.

I think the best case scenario is that someone wants to jump up for Willis or Pickett or a non QB like Stingley or Hamilton and we can slide back in the first.

[DWinzit]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think the best case scenario is that someone wants to jump up for Willis or Pickett or a non QB like Stingley or Hamilton and we can slide back in the first.

Based on what I have read on Ridder, he is working hard on his frustrating consistency/accuracy/decision making issues. If he can clean some of that up, I would be happy with him and Muma

[FootballZombie]

23 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Great opportunity for leading our fresh start...

 

I think that is an important factor, in that we have rebranded the organisation and finding a QB intrigued by being part of that is critical.

 

Oh and the guaranteed money we are prepared to offer.

 

I would think getting out of that div, let alone coming to ours, would be huge.

 

Even if Sea is good next year, they are butting heads w/ the Rams, 49ers n Cards. Who wants to sign on for that.

 

 

55 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rams paid over 40 million on the cap for both Goff and Stafford last year.  The Rams aren't obsessed with cap/QB %.  They are obsessed with getting good QB play.

 

I'd put money that Stafford doesn't give the Rams the Brady style discount you have said you think is going down.   But will see. 

 

If you have a guy worth big money, paying him 40M is the last thing I'd worry about. Worth every penny

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

If you have a guy worth big money, paying him 40M is the last thing I'd worry about. Worth every penny

I totally agree with this. I can't wrap my head around also giving up 3 1sts and 3 2nds for him. I am good with a package of picks but this suggestion, eh.

It's putting all your eggs in for years to come in one basket. Just goes against everything I have grown to believe in and puts you a hammy away from whoever you can afford as the backup...

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

So if true and this the pitch Rivera is making to Wilson, doesn’t that imply we’ve been given permission to talk to him and his reps ?? 

 
 

I doubt it’s to him directly. It’s likely 2nd hand like to his agent 

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Will see.  The reason for the pessimissm from me.  Is the common refrain I keep hearing is:

 

A.  Seahawks really really really really don't want to trade him

B.  They'd only trade him if Wilson insists on a trade

C.  Wilson hasn't insisted on a trade yet

D.  Like the Packers are doing with Rodgers, Seattle is supposedly kissing up to Wilson in every way possible

Kinda sad the way greed has taken over in the NFL.  Not so much Wilson but other players in general.  It wasn't this way years ago when I was a kid watching the game.  Player would pop their shoulders out of place and come back in the game a few plays later.  They used to play with various injuries.  Today, if they have a bruise the are put on the PUP list.  Players when I was a kid made chump change compared to the millions they make today and the equipment that protects the players are much better today than they were when I watched them play years ago.  Sorry for the venting but it's true.

Edited February 27, 2022 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Kinda sad the way greed has taken over in the NFL.  Not so much Wilson but other players in general.  It wasn't this way years ago when I was a kid watching the game.  Player would pop their shoulders out of place and come back in the game a few plays later.  They used to play with various injuries.  Today, if they have a bruise the are put on the PUP list.  Players when I was a kid made chump change compared to the millions they make today and the equipment that protects the players are much better today than they were when I watched them play years ago.  Sorry for the venting but it's true.

 

 

The thing is the QBs have become more powerful than ever.

 

I recall not that long ago some argued that the QB position would if anything be on the demise because their thought was teams would realize that the money allocated woouldn't be worth it considering how it would effect the rest of the roster.  But the trend has been the opposite and in a big way.

 

The fantasy some had that teams would sign their version of Andy Dalton, they'd consume 7% of the cap or whatever, load the team up with a strong supporting cast, and they'd Nick Foles their way to success like that one off Eagles season.  But that notion hasn't caught fire if anything it's headed to the other extreme if teams not wanting to be manned by dudes like Andy Dalton and doing whatever it takes to get that QB because they don't want to rest their team's fortunes on being that one off outlier team. 

 

So all of that has made dudes like Russell Wilson that much more powerful because teams like us can hardly even sniff consistent winning seasons let alone being in the playoffs 2 years in a row let alone in the playoffs a consistent basis.  Seattle's brass isn't stupid they don't want to become a team like this always searching and typically left out of the party of the playoffs. 

 

I think its funny that the main knock is these guys win SBs but not multiple SBs so that's a dig at the idea of paying big for a QBs.  IMO that's silly.  The Packers and the Seahawks are just about relevant EVERY year.  So what that they don't win the SB every time.  If we had the Seahawks run for example with Wilson -- 8 times out of 10 playoffs.  And the 2 "off" years for them, included a 9-7 season which ironically would be the 2nd best record in Dan's tenue -- our yum is the Seattle yuck and if that doesn't bring it home, I dont know what would?  If we had a run like that, especially with a QB like Wilson IMO we wouldn't have to fear so much the Ravens slowly taking over the DMV. 

 

So yeah these QBs get that and are leveraging that to basically blackmail their teams if there is something going on they don't like.  Heck judging by some reporters even Brady might be playing that game -- some say he's forcing a trade from Tampa by "retiring".  Will see. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

I totally agree with this. I can't wrap my head around also giving up 3 1sts and 3 2nds for him. I am good with a package of picks but this suggestion, eh.

It's putting all your eggs in for years to come in one basket. Just goes against everything I have grown to believe in and puts you a hammy away from whoever you can afford as the backup...

 

Heinicke is the built-in backup, haven't you been paying attention over the 362 pages of this thread?   🤣

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The thing is the QBs have become more powerful than ever.

 

I recall not that long ago some argued that the QB position would if anything be on the demise because their thought was teams would realize that the money allocated woouldn't be worth it considering how it would effect the rest of the roster.  But the trend has been the opposite and in a big way.

 

The fantasy some had that teams would sign their version of Andy Dalton, they'd consume 7% of the cap or whatever, load the team up with a strong supporting cast, and they's Nick Foles their way to success like that one off Eagles season.  But that notion hasn't caught fire if anything it's headed to the other extreme if teams not wanting to be manned by dudes like Andy Dalton and doing whatever it takes to get that QB because they don't want to rest their team's fortunes on being that one off outlier team. 

 

So all of that has made dudes like Russell Wilson that much more powerful because teams like us can hardly even sniff consistent winning seasons let alone being in the playoffs 2 years in a row let alone in the playoffs a consistent basis.

 

I think its funny that the main knock is these guys win SBs but not multiple SBs so that's a dig at the idea of paying big for a QBs.  IMO that's silly.  The Packers and the Seahawks are just about relevant EVERY year.  So what that they don't win the SB every time.  If we had the Seahawks run for example with Wilson -- 8 times out of 10 playoffs.  And the 2 "off" years for them, included a 9-7 season which ironically would be the 2nd best record in Dan's tenue -- our yum is the Seattle yuck and if that doesn't bring it home, I dont know what would?

 

So yeah these QBs get that and are leveraging that to basically blackmail their teams if there is something going on they don't like.  Heck judging by some reporters even Brady might be playing that game -- some say he's forcing a trade from Tampa by "retiring".  Will see. 

It is what it is, SIP.  I don't like it and yep, I can see Brady doing it too.  Thing is, once one person starts a trend then that's all she wrote.  It only takes one and then it begins.  On some issues like player safety, I support but greed I don't.  Even Rodgers former teammate talked about Rodgers being greedy yesterday on NFLN.  His ole WR Jennings.

 

 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Based on what I have read on Ridder, he is working hard on his frustrating consistency/accuracy/decision making issues. If he can clean some of that up, I would be happy with him and Muma

 

I'm a bit dubious about a guy trying to somehow show during an offseason that his accuracy and decision making issues have been improved. There's no way to know. Throwing to guys in shorts has little bearing on decision making during a game. The tape is what it is, and right now it shows a guy with talent but some serious issues with inconsistent accuracy and decision making. IMO the only way he'll be able to prove that he's improved that is once he's drafted and plays in the NFL.

 

I doubt he's taken in the 1st unless he runs a 4.30 at the combine or something. I'd be ok with taking him in the 2nd.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for the Ridder love on this thread by some.  I got mixed feelings about it.  I feel like Ridder was one of my guys in a big way, I was talking about him early during the 2020 season before it became cool so to speak.  It feels like he's been co-opted by others from me.    Having said that, I am ok with not being heavy linked as a Ridder guy anymore.

 

It's not that I am down on Ridder.  It's just that he seems such a wildcard to me.  

 

He's such a weird QB in some ways where he is hard to get a beat on.  As I said months earlier, he's like a tale of two different dudes depending on the game you watch, even sometimes during the same game.

 

If I had to pick on patterns for his wild inconsistency

 

A.  Throws much better to the right than the left.

 

B.  His accuracy seems pinpoint when his receivers are wide open, including the deep ball.  But in tight windows, his accuracy isn't nearly the same

 

He reminds me a little of what i said about Heinicke and Fitzpatrick from watching them in camp.  I found it ironic that Logan Paulsen cited how Ridder reminds him of Heinicke -- I know what he means.  What I said about Heinicke and Fitz (Heinicke with the bigger problem on this front) is in camp you watch them be on fire for a spell and then all of a sudden their accuracy disappears where it looks like any one of us can throw a more accurate ball.  It's weird.  But Ridder seems to have spells like that too which come out of nowhere.

 

What I like about him is his personallity.  Determination to improve.  I like his mobility.  I like his arm strength more than most do.  I always think he's a good QB when everything around him is perfect -- great protection and his receivers are streaking down the field wide open. 

 

What i don't like about him is among all these 6 QBs he gives me the most red flags of two things that have contributed to some ballyhooed college QBs becoming busts in the NFL -- inconsistent accuracy and shake your head at times decision making.

 

So I've gone from being a Ridder guy in 2020, I didn't love him then but liked him as a 2nd round type QB -- to now being kind of mixed about him and some others seem more enthused about him.  My feelings about him as I've said before remind me about my feelings about Drew Lock before that draft.  I was back and forth on Drew Lock but my conclusion was typically -- I can see some attributes that would make him a successful QB -- and conversely I can see how he'd be a bust, too.  Like Drew Lock, Ridder is wildly inconsistent where you got to project that the consistency comes.  It never came for Lock. 

 

i don't know about Ridder on that front.  If I went to Vegas i wouldn't put any money on him succeeeding or would I bet on him failing.  He's the QB of this group I am totally straddilng the fence.

 

I won't though straddle the fence on this point which is I'd feel much more comfortable taking Corral, Willis, Howell or Pickett over Ridder.  As for Strong, I waffle about him versus Ridder.  I lean Strong but its close.  Now if Ridder runs a 4.4, that will certainly move me off the fence to being more positive,

 

Like my point with Trubisky I can deal with inconsistent QB play if they can run well.   It's not my top desire.  I like QBs who can play well from the pocket.  But I elevate a dude like Ridder if he has elite speed over maybe a more sound passer but isn't anything special like a Dalton. 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

I wouldn't classify our weapons as great. We have no legitimate #2 WR option. Our best RB is more of a hybrid RB/WR type. Our top TE is over 30 and coming off an ACL. And while our OL was highly rated, its also likely to lose its best player and team's only All Pro. 

 

There are quite a few teams that need a QB that I'd say have much better supporting casts. And that isn't even factoring in the toxic cloud that hangs over this franchise.

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't classify our weapons as great. We have no legitimate #2 WR option. Our best RB is more of a hybrid RB/WR type. Our top TE is over 30 and coming off an ACL. And while our OL was highly rated, its also likely to lose its best player and team's only All Pro. 

 

There are quite a few teams that need a QB that I'd say have much better supporting casts. And that isn't even factoring in the toxic cloud that hangs over this franchise.

I would agree. Same applies to being great on D.

 

Now if we are able to add a key piece on each side in free agency too, like a stud FS or LB plus another top end receiving threat, maybe so.

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't classify our weapons as great. We have no legitimate #2 WR option. Our best RB is more of a hybrid RB/WR type. Our top TE is over 30 and coming off an ACL. And while our OL was highly rated, its also likely to lose its best player and team's only All Pro. 

 

Personally, I'm not all that concerned about losing Scherff. But, your post is why I am hesitant to depart with the draft capital necessary to land a Wilson or similar. Depth is a key component to championship building and this is a great class to build a foundation, especially on the defensive side. Just a Devil's Advocate take on my part.