The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Darth Tater]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

You can nit pick pretty much all the way down the roster, but overall we have a pretty good offense. Just no one to drive the car.

That wasn't the point. The point is that if you go with JimmyG, you definitely want to get the best tools and he's not the long-term answer which means picks are still of high value. If you go with Jimmy, it is so you can kick the can another year (or take a red-shirt now) so you probs want your 11 this year. You are still going to have to play elite ball-control and be highly certain that if you have it 1 goal inside the 5, you aren't going to have to settle for 3. Elite guys get TDs outside of the red-zone, often turn mediocre guys into great ones and/or don't need a great run game when they are in goal to go situations. Giving them better tools would be great but not as big a priority as with Jimmy.

[FLSkinz83]

Hi everyone!    First post.   Been reading the boards for a while and the name change made me sign up.   I feel like I need the therapy of chatting with other fans.

One reason I never signed up was because many of my views regarding this team go against popular opinion.   But what the heck, let's debate...especially with Skinsinparadise; who I've enjoyed reading over the years...mostly

 

Regarding the QB - The criticism TH has gotten is really unfair.   If he had been a draft pick, we would not be talking about drafting a QB this year...we definitely wouldn't be talking about guys like Trubisky.    

 

TH was 7-8 a starter on a team with limited weapons, a mostly ineffective running game and a lousy defense.   He proved to be a leader and a gamer.   no situation was too big for him.

In games where Gibson rushed for over 60 yards that TH started; we were 7-0 and TH had 12 TD's and 3 INT's.     In addition; he played against a very difficult schedule.

I think people really focus on his bad throws instead of looking at all the great things he did.    His arm strength is average, but his mobility and elusiveness is better than most QB's.

I think he would have been even better if Turner designed more plays to utilize his legs.

 

Having said all that.....Of course I would rather have Wilson, Watson and Carr....I think I'd rather have Wentz, but I would need to learn more about what his deal is.

No way would I trade or even sign Jimmy G...The only free agent QB that I like is Mariota.    

 

The idea of signing someone like Trubisky and drafting a QB makes no sense....I can accept TH and drafting a QB.

[Chump Bailey]

13 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Hi everyone!    First post.   

The idea of signing someone like Trubisky and drafting a QB makes no sense....I can accept TH and drafting a QB.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Hi everyone!    First post.   Been reading the boards for a while and the name change made me sign up.   I feel like I need the therapy of chatting with other fans.

One reason I never signed up was because many of my views regarding this team go against popular opinion.   But what the heck, let's debate...especially with Skinsinparadise; who I've enjoyed reading over the years...mostly

 

Regarding the QB - The criticism TH has gotten is really unfair.   If he had been a draft pick, we would not be talking about drafting a QB this year...we definitely wouldn't be talking about guys like Trubisky.    

 

TH was 7-8 a starter on a team with limited weapons, a mostly ineffective running game and a lousy defense.   He proved to be a leader and a gamer.   no situation was too big for him.

In games where Gibson rushed for over 60 yards that TH started; we were 7-0 and TH had 12 TD's and 3 INT's.     In addition; he played against a very difficult schedule.

I think people really focus on his bad throws instead of looking at all the great things he did.    His arm strength is average, but his mobility and elusiveness is better than most QB's.

I think he would have been even better if Turner designed more plays to utilize his legs.

 

Having said all that.....Of course I would rather have Wilson, Watson and Carr....I think I'd rather have Wentz, but I would need to learn more about what his deal is.

No way would I trade or even sign Jimmy G...The only free agent QB that I like is Mariota.    

 

The idea of signing someone like Trubisky and drafting a QB makes no sense....I can accept TH and drafting a QB.

 

Welcome.  As for picking me out as the dude to debate.  😀    I gather it would have to be squarely about Heinicke.  Considering just about every other point you made dovetails with my takes just about to a tee.  Among other things, I am among the biggest Mariota and Carr and Wilson people here.  I'd probaby go Wentz over Jimmy G.

 

As for Taylor, I got zero hate towards him.  Great story, good dude.  Good backup QB. I am far from his loudest critic on the board.  But the reason why I disagree that we'd be talking about Taylor as the dude this season if he was a draft pick is his arm talent.  I am not fixated on getting a QB with a rifle but i want at least an average arm.  There was a reason why Taylor went undrafted.  It wasn't just the school he played with.  Guys with arm strength like him typically aren't picked high in the draft or picked at all for a reason. 

 

  

Edited February 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Listening some more to Finlay's podcast, he speculated as I mentioned earlier today, that Watson's agent might not have a hot relationship with some at Commanders Park.

 

If you guys recall the Haskins demise wasn't that far removed from his agent at the time blasting the team publicly for in his mind unfairly scapegoating Haskins for the team's rough start.

 

As for Keim saying he heard Watson has a hard no as to coming here -- I wonder if some of that is driven by his agent.  I mentioned before it made sense to me on the level that why would Watson want to come to the one place where his off the field issues would get even more attention because his new team have their own issues on a similar topic.  But maybe there is something to the agent component of it, too. 

 

 

I'm fine with Watson not coming here.  There may be BIG time red flags with the guy.  Innocent until proven guilty. 

[FLSkinz83]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Welcome.  As for picking me out as the dude to debate.  😀    I gather it would have to be squarely about Heinicke.  Considering just about every other point you made dovetails with my takes just about to a tee.  Among other things, I am among the biggest Mariota and Carr and Wilson people here.  I'd probaby go Wentz over Jimmy G.

 

As for Taylor, I got zero hate towards him.  Great story, good dude.  Good backup QB. I am far from his loudest critic on the board.  But the reason why I disagree that we'd be talking about Taylor as the dude this season if he was a draft pick is his arm talent.  I am not fixated on getting a QB with a rifle but i want at least an average arm.  There was a reason why Taylor went undrafted.  It wasn't just the school he played with.  Guys with arm strength like him typically aren't picked high in the draft or picked at all for a reason. 

 

  

 

I was talking about debating generally, not just about the QB.   I'm a big draft guy and have read your posts there as well.

I don't agree that TH doesn't have arm strength. I hear a lot of people comparing him to Colt McCoy's arm and I just don't see that.   

Had he played at a big school, I definitely think he would have been drafted.    

 

A lot of times his throws float because the pocket is collapsing and he's throwing off his back foot.    I can show you plenty of throws where the arm strength was more than good enough.

I guess my point is that his arm strength is good enough based on his other characteristics.

 

Let me be clear...I'd trade for Wilson, Watson and Carr, but the idea that TH starting next year is the worst thing in the world is a bit crazy.   He did a great job under the circumstances and a part of me is curious what he would do in his 2nd year with more experience and better talent around him.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah its one of things that I don't want to see happen everything being equal.  I wouldn't jump off a bridge if they got him cheap but Jimmy G doesn't move the needle for me at all.   

Since the end of the glory years I’d rank Jimmy G ahead of stop gap bridge guys like Friesz, the ‘01 collection, the Spurrier collection, Boonell, McNabb and friends, and,  Alex Smith and below Brad Johnson. 
 

It’s not so much that I hate Jimmy G as I just can’t see him as a top 10 make your team a contender QB anymore (going back years). He can be carried, he can’t do the carrying. I don’t want any QB of that sort, it’s just treading .500ish water. I’m hoping we get Willis or Corall because those are the only guys other than Watson that can give us a decade of great play. I don’t expect either of the prospects to do it but it’s possible. W/the other options I see no possibility whatsoever.

[Burgold]

51 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Hi everyone!    First post.   Been reading the boards for a while and the name change made me sign up.   I feel like I need the therapy of chatting with other fans.

One reason I never signed up was because many of my views regarding this team go against popular opinion.   But what the heck, let's debate...especially with Skinsinparadise; who I've enjoyed reading over the years...mostly

 

Regarding the QB - The criticism TH has gotten is really unfair.   If he had been a draft pick, we would not be talking about drafting a QB this year...we definitely wouldn't be talking about guys like Trubisky.    

 

TH was 7-8 a starter on a team with limited weapons, a mostly ineffective running game and a lousy defense.   He proved to be a leader and a gamer.   no situation was too big for him.

In games where Gibson rushed for over 60 yards that TH started; we were 7-0 and TH had 12 TD's and 3 INT's.     In addition; he played against a very difficult schedule.

I think people really focus on his bad throws instead of looking at all the great things he did.    His arm strength is average, but his mobility and elusiveness is better than most QB's.

I think he would have been even better if Turner designed more plays to utilize his legs.

 

Having said all that.....Of course I would rather have Wilson, Watson and Carr....I think I'd rather have Wentz, but I would need to learn more about what his deal is.

No way would I trade or even sign Jimmy G...The only free agent QB that I like is Mariota.    

 

The idea of signing someone like Trubisky and drafting a QB makes no sense....I can accept TH and drafting a QB.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Heinike. What flashes in my mind are all the wide open bombs that turned into 50-50 balls and the inability to throw flares to the running back with just his arm. That said, Heinike does have strong leadership qualities. He can lead a comeback. He does read a defense well. He's got everything you want except for the rocket arm. In a way, he reminds me of Rex Grossman. So many of Rex's bad throws were actually great ideas that he just didn't have the arm to complete. Heinike and Rex both knew what to do with the ball, but their bombs too often fell short or lacked the velocity to make it through the tight windows. Mind you, I think Taylor is actually a rich man's Rex Grossman. That's why I don't really want to sign a Tribusky or Garopolo. I think Heinke can be a starting QB. I think he'd be around the 25th best. My guess is that Goropolo pushes you up to 12-15 and Tribusky rates around 18 (I'm pulling these numbers out of my.... )

 

Is having the fifteenth best QB worth the money and loss of draft picks? Maybe? Is fifteen good enough? Probably not. And that's why if I couldn't get someone I really believed would propel Washington deep into the playoffs then I would rather stay with Heinike and get the best rookie I can. I do think Heinike has proven he's an NFL starter. He's just below average and I don't know if some of the things he can't do is fixable.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Burgold

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I don't agree that TH doesn't have arm strength. I hear a lot of people comparing him to Colt McCoy's arm and I just don't see that.   

 

 

I've seen him throw in camp plenty, i watched almost every Richmond training practice where you see throw after throw.  IMO and just about everyone who has watched him do no agree with you that he has average arm strength. 

 

But to each their own on that.

 

Since you read the draft thread, you might know I like Corral.  I also like Howell more than most people do.  Yet, if I buy what guys like Keim among others say, they like Pickett more than those guys.  Will see if his sources end up correct on that.  But I can live with a different opinion on these QBs, since I don't dislike Pickett.    It just is what it is if they see things differently than I do.  I am not upset about it. 

 

In that same spirit, I am sure you can tell that they aren't excited to see Heinicke as the starter next season.  Rivera was literally laughing at the question from Finlay about needing a QB,  with "that's an understatement dude" and continued to laugh.  And just about every national and local reporter have them rumored to be interested in just about every QB under the sun.  It doesn't feel at all like Rivera sees Heinicke the way you do.  So if it plays out the way it appears its going to play out - are you upset at Rivera and company for not seeing things the same way or is it all cool?

 

I am curious because for the few people left who think it would be fine to ride this back with Heinicke, putting myself in your shoes, it would make me question Ron some unless I didn't feel that hard about my take on the subject.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've seen him throw in camp plenty, i watched almost every Richmond training practice where you see throw after throw.  IMO and just about everyone who has watched him do no agree with you that he has average arm strength. 

 

But to each their own on that.

 

Since you read the draft thread, you might know I like Corral.  I also like Howell more than most people do.  Yet, if I buy what guys like Keim among others say, they like Pickett more than those guys.  Will see if his sources end up correct on that.  But I can live with a different opinion on these QBs, since I don't dislike Pickett.    It just is what it is if they see things differently than I do.  I am not upset about it. 

 

In that same spirit, I am sure you can tell that they aren't excited to see Heinicke as the starter next season.  Rivera was literally laughing at the question from Finlay about needing a QB,  with "that's an understatement dude" and continued to laugh.  And just about every national and local reporter have them rumored to be interested in just about every QB under the sun.  It doesn't feel at all like Rivera sees Heinicke the way you do.  So if it plays out the way it appears its going to play out - are you upset at Rivera and company for not seeing things the same way or is it all cool?

 

I am curious because for the few people left who think it would be fine to ride this back with Heinicke, putting myself in your shoes, it would make me question Ron some unless I didn't feel that hard about my take on the subject.

 

Go re-watch some of his throws in the Falcons and Panthers game.   Or how about the TD throw to Sims in the Dallas game?    those are not noodle arm throws.

 

Would I rather have TH at 3 million and keep all our assets vs trading for Jimmy G and paying him?   It's not even close.   

Would I rather have TH at 3 mil vs paying Trubisky 10-15 mil?   Not even close.

 

My first choice is an elite QB...or a very good proven QB like Carr....But if you told me TH is starting and we're going to add another starting caliber WR, RB and the defense shows up, I'd be confident we're making the playoffs.   

 

I'm totally with you on Howell.  I have no interest in Corral whatsoever.   He's an injury waiting to happen and I'm not sure the Ole Miss offense translates well to the NFL.

[Mrshadow008]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've seen him throw in camp plenty, i watched almost every Richmond training practice where you see throw after throw.  IMO and just about everyone who has watched him do no agree with you that he has average arm strength. 

 

But to each their own on that.

 

Since you read the draft thread, you might know I like Corral.  I also like Howell more than most people do.  Yet, if I buy what guys like Keim among others say, they like Pickett more than those guys.  Will see if his sources end up correct on that.  But I can live with a different opinion on these QBs, since I don't dislike Pickett.    It just is what it is if they see things differently than I do.  I am not upset about it. 

 

In that same spirit, I am sure you can tell that they aren't excited to see Heinicke as the starter next season.  Rivera was literally laughing at the question from Finlay about needing a QB,  with "that's an understatement dude" and continued to laugh.  And just about every national and local reporter have them rumored to be interested in just about every QB under the sun.  It doesn't feel at all like Rivera sees Heinicke the way you do.  So if it plays out the way it appears its going to play out - are you upset at Rivera and company for not seeing things the same way or is it all cool?

 

I am curious because for the few people left who think it would be fine to ride this back with Heinicke, putting myself in your shoes, it would make me question Ron some unless I didn't feel that hard about my take on the subject.

I think most here would agree Taylor’s not the guy. But I do agree to an extent that if it came down to it I’d rather take Taylor as the bridge vs the capital it would take for Jimmy or bringing in Wentz. If Jimmy were simply a free agent I’d be for it but I’m not giving up draft picks plus paying him 25 million when he’s only marginally better than the guy you already have on the roster for 1.4 million. 
As for Wentz the dude is mentally weak, doesn’t know the offense, and can’t handle pressure from another qb on the roster. Where again TH knows the offense and a natural leader that the guys in that locker room would run through a wall for despite knowing his limitations. You don’t hear anything of those same characteristics about Wentz nor would I want that guy anywhere near a rookie qb learning from him. 

[FLSkinz83]

I'm curious what you guys think of what I mentioned below earlier:

 

In games where Gibson rushed for over 60 yards that TH started; we were 7-0 and TH had 12 TD's and 3 INT's. 

 

60+ isn't exactly a ton.

   

[The Consigliere]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've seen him throw in camp plenty, i watched almost every Richmond training practice where you see throw after throw.  IMO and just about everyone who has watched him do no agree with you that he has average arm strength. 

 

But to each their own on that.

 

Since you read the draft thread, you might know I like Corral.  I also like Howell more than most people do.  Yet, if I buy what guys like Keim among others say, they like Pickett more than those guys.  Will see if his sources end up correct on that.  But I can live with a different opinion on these QBs, since I don't dislike Pickett.    It just is what it is if they see things differently than I do.  I am not upset about it. 

 

In that same spirit, I am sure you can tell that they aren't excited to see Heinicke as the starter next season.  Rivera was literally laughing at the question from Finlay about needing a QB,  with "that's an understatement dude" and continued to laugh.  And just about every national and local reporter have them rumored to be interested in just about every QB under the sun.  It doesn't feel at all like Rivera sees Heinicke the way you do.  So if it plays out the way it appears its going to play out - are you upset at Rivera and company for not seeing things the same way or is it all cool?

 

I am curious because for the few people left who think it would be fine to ride this back with Heinicke, putting myself in your shoes, it would make me question Ron some unless I didn't feel that hard about my take on the subject.

For all the strum and drang it’s kind of funny. We like mostly the same Qbs.

 

I can live with Willis or Corall pending the mental make up interviews (have to be last in first out guys for me) I have no interest in Pickett, and Howell is the one guy I could live w/drafting in a trade down. Ridder is interesting to me in the same way guys like Clausen and Locker were, I like guys that come w/cheap disappointing final year discounts, but the interviews and cross checking probably find all kinds of ugly about him. I kinda like my UNR QB Strong for a similar reasons if his knee checks out which stretches credulity, but having a guy w/that kind of Marino/Ben Roth pocket passing rocket game could be a winning hand, but it’s not a bet worth making unless super cheap and more a Cousins in ‘12 roll of the dice then a coherent long term strategy.
 

If I’m ranking them I probably go:

 

Tier 1

1 Willis

 

Tier 2

2 Corral

3 Howell

 

Tier 3:

4 Strong

5 Ridder

6 Pickett

 

 

[bowhunter]

5 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Would I rather have TH at 3 million and keep all our assets vs trading for Jimmy G and paying him?   It's not even close.   

Would I rather have TH at 3 mil vs paying Trubisky 10-15 mil?   Not even close.

 

Welcome to the board, and I already agree with a few of your points. Unless we sign RW, or Mayfield, (zero interest in Watson), we will need to spend both draft capital and salary bux on building this team. Adding a Trubisky/Wentz/Mariotta, etc to the team only ensures more mediocrity , ie no playoff wins and no great draft status,lost $$ and draft capital... so What's the point?? We already have a limited QB on the team who is not using up cap space or costing us picks. Now is the time to prepare wisely. Draft the best QB available (I like Corral) because his floor is higher than Willis and has a higher ceiling than Pickett/Howell. 

That way you have TH to help buy a little time until the rook is ready. Still have all of your draft capital, and all of your salary cap room to sign/draft MLB, WR2, bellcow RB, and a FS to boot.

[The Consigliere]

12 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I'm curious what you guys think of what I mentioned below earlier:

 

In games where Gibson rushed for over 60 yards that TH started; we were 7-0 and TH had 12 TD's and 3 INT's. 

 

60+ isn't exactly a ton.

   

Add a few more yards and it’s a thousand but I don’t see it as causation. RBs tend to have more productive games when they’re salting away leads a more balanced attack generated. 

[Redskins 2021]

 We have to add at least one vet Qb even if he loses out to Heinike. We have to look like we are at least trying to improve the position.

[bowhunter]

9 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Add a few more yards and it’s a thousand but I don’t see it as causation. RBs tend to have more productive games when they’re salting away leads a more balanced attack generated. 

Agreed, not all stats are as telling once you get past first blush.

 

But here's one worthy of considering, and stands to be predictive over more than one just one cherry-picked year.

Over the past decade: Whenever we ran the Victory formation, Washington is 47-1 (one exception being Cousins.) We should call that play more often

Edited February 20, 2022 by bowhunter

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

For all the strum and drang it’s kind of funny. We like mostly the same Qbs.

 

I can live with Willis or Corall pending the mental make up interviews (have to be last in first out guys for me) I have no interest in Pickett, and Howell is the one guy I could live w/drafting in a trade down. Ridder is interesting to me in the same way guys like Clausen and Locker were, I like guys that come w/cheap disappointing final year discounts, but the interviews and cross checking probably find all kinds of ugly about him. I kinda like my UNR QB Strong for a similar reasons if his knee checks out which stretches credulity, but having a guy w/that kind of Marino/Ben Roth pocket passing rocket game could be a winning hand, but it’s not a bet worth making unless super cheap and more a Cousins in ‘12 roll of the dice then a coherent long term strategy.
 

If I’m ranking them I probably go:

 

Tier 1

1 Willis

 

Tier 2

2 Corral

3 Howell

 

Tier 3:

4 Strong

5 Ridder

6 Pickett

 

 

 

for me Corral 1A, Willis 1B.  then Howell.

 

As for Strong, Ridder, Pickett, I go back and forth.  I'd probably put Pickett 4th because I love what I read about his intangibles.  But I got no quarrel with how you rank things. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

17 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Add a few more yards and it’s a thousand but I don’t see it as causation. RBs tend to have more productive games when they’re salting away leads a more balanced attack generated. 

 

With the exception of the last Giants game, none of those other games was about salting away leads.   It was in the context of the game which gave TH a chance to be successful.

I don't think 2nd and long, 3rd and long with our talent last year was a recipe for success.  No matter who the QB was.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Go re-watch some of his throws in the Falcons and Panthers game.   Or how about the TD throw to Sims in the Dallas game?    those are not noodle arm throws.

 

Would I rather have TH at 3 million and keep all our assets vs trading for Jimmy G and paying him?   It's not even close.   

Would I rather have TH at 3 mil vs paying Trubisky 10-15 mil?   Not even close.

 

 

We are wasting each other's time as to discussions about Heinicke's arm strength is average.  If you believe that its cool.  I don't, not even close.

 

But going back to my question, what do you feel about Rivera not digging the idea of Heinicke being the guy?  We can argue about Heinicke but all indications are this isn't a real debate within their FO and instead Rivera agrees with 98% of so of people on this board that he's not the guy to bring back as the starter even as the bridge QB.   

 

I can wish for example Rivera has the same hieraracy that I do as for the Qbs in this draft but at the moment if i am riding with Keim's takes about what he's heard. Rivera doesn't see it the same way.  I am cool with that.  I am curious how you feel about Rivera in the context of supposedly not seeing Heinicke the way you do.    I trust Rivera enough to believe that hey maybe he's right and his scouting staff is right, and I am wrong, not that my position is wildly different from theirs though.  Are you in the same place as for trusting Rivera over your own takes about Heinicke or do you think Rivera is wrong?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The only people on earth interested in seeing Heineke take more starting snaps for this team are Taylor Heineke, his family, people from ODU, our opponents, and a small sliver of the current fanbase.  
 

I can’t think of a respected voice, be that a coach, analyst, media personality, anyone - that still has any belief whatsoever that Taylor Heineke should be starting in the NFL unless your starter is injured.

[Mrshadow008]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The only people on earth interested in seeing Heineke take more starting snaps for this team are Taylor Heineke, his family, people from ODU, our opponents, and a small sliver of the current fanbase.  
 

I can’t think of a respected voice, be that a coach, analyst, media personality, anyone - that still has any belief whatsoever that Taylor Heineke should be starting in the NFL unless your starter is injured.

That’s not the point anybody is trying to get at here. The point is if you’re drafting a guy in the first round and you’re making him sit. Does it make more sense to have the guy that you already have on the roster for cheap or going and wasting cap space on a guy that doesn’t know the system or been in the locker room when you can use that money to supplement other parts of the roster for when the rookie is ready. The point isn’t that TH is the long term answer. Just doesn’t make a lot of sense to waste capital spending on someone who also isn’t the long term answer. 

[Redskins 2021]

Could any of the first rounders start a day 1 I know there some who believe Pickett could.

[FLSkinz83]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We are wastiing each other's time as to discussions about Heinicke's arm strength is average.  If you believe that its cool.  I don't, not even close.

 

But going back to my question, what do you feel about Rivera not digging the idea of Heinicke being the guy?  We can argue about Heinicke but all indications are this isn't a real debate within their FO and instead Rivera agrees with 98% of so of people on this board that he's not the guy to bring back as the starter even as the bridge QB.   

 

I can wish for example Rivera has the same hieraracy that I do as for the Qbs in this draft but at the moment if i am riding with Keim's takes about what he's heard. Rivera doesn't see it the same way.  I am cool with that.  I am curious how you feel about Rivera in the context of supposedly not seeing Heinicke the way you do.    I trust Rivera enough to believe that hey maybe he's right and his scouting staff is right, and I am wrong, not that my position is wildly different from theirs though.  Are you in the same place as for trusting Rivera over your own takes about Heinicke or do you think Rivera is wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

I think when people have preconceived notions, it takes a lot to change their minds    I don't think TH was ever Ron's guy anyway.  He was Turner's guy.

 

TBH - I'm not a big Rivera fan.  I hope I'm wrong, but to answer your question, I don't have much confidence in Ron getting it right.  

 

It feels like I'm saying that TH is the long term answer to consistent winning...probably not and I'd much rather have Wilson, etc....I just think TH is being disrespected based on what people thought he was.  

 

[The Consigliere]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

for me Corral 1A, Willis 1B.  then Howell.

 

As for Strong, Ridder, Pickett, I go back and forth.  I'd probably put Pickett 4th because I love what I read about his intangibles.  But I got no quarrel with how you rank things. 

Honestly after the 3 I’m a straight pass on everyone so that probably means Picketts legit. Otoh, most of the guys I wanted no part of the most did bust: I hated Wilson last year, Jones in ‘19, erm Allen in ‘18, Trubisky in ‘17, both of them in ‘16, neither in ‘15, hated all the elite ranked guys of ‘10, ‘13, and ‘14 other than Newton and erm, Locker who I viewed as value until he went much higher than I expected ) Weeden in ‘12. 
 

But beyond Willis, Corral and Howell, I’m not interested and other than Willis it’s incredibly difficult for me to close my eyes and imagine stardom, kinda like hearing names like Blaine Gabbert or Blake Bortles just screamed bust. They just don’t roll off the tongue like Tom Brady or Joe Montana, Russell Wilson or Peyton Manning.