The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[88Comrade2000]

I can't believe people are considering Wentz, when he couldn't make it work with the team that drafted him.  He supposedly didn't talk to his head coach for a period of time. He couldn't deal mentally with the success Foles had and couldn't deal mentally with them drafting hurts. Plus, he was a jerk and didn't respond well to critics.

 

He gets a second chance with Colts. Their head coach was the OC, when he had his best season. Should work out right? Well, apparently he had the same issues and after one year, the Colts are moving on; after giving up a 1st and 3rd.

 

That spells cancer too me. Plus, he's had some injuries over the years.  He's a head case and wouldn't work here.

 

I personally think he will be out of the league in 2-3 years.

I can't believe people are considering Wentz, when he couldn't make it work with the team that drafted him.  He supposedly didn't talk to his head coach for a period of time. He couldn't deal mentally with the success Foles had and couldn't deal mentally with them drafting hurts. Plus, he was a jerk and didn't respond well to critics.

 

He gets a second chance with Colts. Their head coach was the OC, when he had his best season. Should work out right? Well, apparently he had the same issues and after one year, the Colts are moving on; after giving up a 1st and 3rd.

 

That spells cancer too me. Plus, he's had some injuries over the years.  He's a head case and wouldn't work here.

 

I personally think he will be out of the league in 2-3 years.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by 88Comrade2000

[Warhead36]

Zero chance we go for Wentz. Most likely we'll take a swing at a big name like Rodgers or Wilson, whiff, and end up settling for a value gamble like Trebisky or Mariota.

[RWJ]

17 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Crazy but I could see this happening if Denver doesn't land a top tier QB like Rodgers, given Carolina has a problem with their QB cap (Darnold) and supply/deman by teams to land a QB.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/three-round-2022-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-five-trades-five-qbs-selected-in-round-1

 

#3 Malik Willis - Carolina (trade with Texans)

#9 Kenny Pickett - Denver

#10 Sam Howell - Pittsburgh (trade with Jets)

#11 Matt Corral - Washington

#32 Desmond Ridder - Detroit

 

I want Pickett but I'll gladly take Corral.  He's starting to grow on me as time goes by.  I've watched his film and he becomes more and more impressive the more I watch.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim on 106.7 now.

 

A.  Need some dominos to fall at QB for things to shake out elsewhere

 

B.  They will definitely shoot hard for big QBs but likely do not land a big fish.  

 

C.  To get Wilson, need to help Seattle get a QB, maybe need a three way trade or a means for Seattle to get to a QB

 

D.  If its Carson Wentz (Finlay brought Wentz up) Keim said it would also be a rookie at the same time -- he mentioned like Malik Willis

 

E.  Jimmy G he thinks will buy you 2 years before having to turn to a rookie

 

F.  Keim clearly not a fan of Wentz but I couldn't tell if that reflects the team or just his own take

 

G.  he doesn't dislike this Qb class but missing a top echelon type QB.  

 

H.  Pickett like the maturity/experience.  inconsistent accuracy

 

I. Finlay pushed Keim about the need here for a Qb who can hit the ground running.  Keim agreed and circled to why Pickett.  But said if they sign Trubisky or a Wentz, it would make Willis more interesting/workable.  He talked about getting him by trading down a little from 11.  You never know but i doubt they get Willis even sitting at 11 let alone trading down. 

 

He talked this time about his take about the young QBs which I am less interested in. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

36 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

 

Would trade "almost anyone'. If that includes Chase I wonder who the "almost anyone" could be? Terry McLaurin, Jonathan Allen, Troy Apke? That's about the only ones I can think of that they might not want to part with.  

Apke was just for a little humor.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

The league is full of high maintenance jackass players. And a lot of them win Super Bowls.

 

To be a high maintenance jackass and get away with it you have to be a REALLY good QB. And Wentz isn't that IMO.

 

I also think there are different types of jackasses. Some are just overly competitive and can come across as abrasive or obnoxious (ala Brady) but their teammates generally like them and they don't really cause locker room problems. But some are high maintenance, bad personalities, and are usually disliked and cause locker room problems. That seems to be Wentz.

[Chris 44]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Wentz is far better as a QB than the other FA. But his attitude is the major issue.

I dont understand why we would be interested in Wentz if the Colts are keen to get rid of him? Hes not Rodgers, Watson, Wilson etc. I just dont see the upside at all.

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim on 106.7 now.

 

A.  Need some dominos to fall at QB for things to shake out elsewhere

 

B.  They will definitely shoot hard for big QBs but likely do not land a big fish.  

 

C.  To get Wilson, need to help Seattle get a QB, maybe need a three way trade or a means for Seattle to get to a QB

 

D.  If its Carson Wentz (Finlay brought Wentz up) Keim said it would also be a rookie at the same time -- he mentioned like Malik Willis

 

E.  Jimmy G he thinks will buy you 2 years before having to turn to a rookie

 

F.  Keim clearly not a fan of Wentz but I couldn't tell if that reflects the team or just his own take

 

G.  he doesn't dislike this Qb class but missing a top echelon type QB.  

 

H.  Pickett like the maturity/experience.  inconsistent accuracy

 

I. Finlay pushed Keim about the need here for a Qb who can hit the ground running.  Keim agreed and circled to why Pickett.  But said if they sign Trubisky or a Wentz, it would make Willis more interesting/workable.  He talked about getting him by trading down a little from 11.  You never know but i doubt they get Willis even sitting at 11 let alone trading down. 

 

He talked this time about his take about the young QBs which I am less interested in. 

SIP, were they talking about Wentz coming here in a trade or after being released as an UFA?  I am not on the Wentz train just as a note. I think everyone knows that Wentz will be released.  Teams just need to be patient and I hope that Keim referred or made mention of that.  

Edited February 18, 2022 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, RWJ said:

SIP, were they talking about Wentz coming here in a trade or after being released as an UFA?  I am not on the Wentz train just as a note. I think everyone knows that Wentz will be released.  Teams just need to be patient and I hope that Keim referred or made mention of that.  

They didn't talk about a rumor about him coming here, Finlay just threw Wentz at him hypothetically.

 

Overall nothing new in the soup with Keim except for the Willis part which is notable for me.   

 

Keim even got into if you are drafting a QB who is more on the raw side they'd have to follow the program set up by the team.  And he goes Rivera did that with Cam and Cam followed the program to a tee.  Keim was hinting, and that wasn't the first time that the QB has to be a worker and the way he talks about the point its clear that he's referencing Haskins' lack of committment.  His point is to develop a QB its a two way street.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

One more thing, you think Wentz would handle it mentally if we draft a qb late in the first or in the second? He won't. 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

They didn't talk about a rumor about him coming here, Finlay just threw Wentz at him hypothetically.

Thank, SIP.  Here's the thing too.  How much do they think of Pickett and if they know another team (i.e. Panthers) want to draft him are they willing to move up to get him and how far to ensure he's, their guy?  Again, as stated I hope RR do their due deligence.  Do you remember the water test the Eagle's brass, I think it was them they did with both Wentz and Goff?  Maybe I'm dreaming but do you remember that?   LOL  They need to ensure he can throw with wet gloves as he wears them during the games and it was mentioned Pickett had issues at a Senior Bowl practice in the rain.  

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Thank, SIP.  Here's the thing too.  How much do they think of Pickett and if they know another team (i.e. Panthers) want to draft him are they willing to move up to get him and how far to ensure he's, their guy?  Again, as stated I hope RR do their due deligence.  Do you remember the water test the Eagle's brass, I think it was them they did with both Wentz and Goff?  Maybe I'm dreaming but do you remember that?   LOL  They need to ensure he can throw with wet gloves as he wears them during the games and it was mentioned Pickett had issues at a Senior Bowl practice in the rain.  

 

I don't recall the water test but I did read a long article back then from the Eagles perspective about why they dig Wentz.  The irony is his intangibles were touted when they did their homework on him, clearly they were wrong about that.  But in their defense its not always easy to guage that until the QB is in the building as Shanny likes to say. 

 

You've asked me before about whether they like him enough to trade up.  Nothing really changed as far as my impression on that after listening to that podcast which is I don't think they'd trade up.  Having said that, I have to extrapolate on that to form that conclusion so I am not 100% sure.

 

As I've said before, I think the combine-pro days loom large as for how hyped their interest is in these guys.  

[RabidFan]

Ask me who passed that water test......Brian Drew passed it.

[mistertim]

34 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I dont understand why we would be interested in Wentz if the Colts are keen to get rid of him? Hes not Rodgers, Watson, Wilson etc. I just dont see the upside at all.

 

Yeah, how many teams have to be desperate to get rid of a guy before we stop thinking he's a good idea for us?

 

Wentz became a cancer for the Eagles after he couldn't deal with the facts that they won a SB without him and then drafted a QB. They knew they had to get rid of him. The Colts then decided to take a chance on him and after 1 year they're already sick of his bull**** and are looking to jettison him.

 

So why exactly do we think it's a good idea to try and get this guy again? It's not like he's an elite QB. He had a pretty decent statistical year but then imploded when it was most important.

 

Given what happened with the Eagles, does anyone doubt that if we traded for him and also drafted a QB that he'd turn into a moody baby again?

[Hitman#21]

1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

 

This isn’t true, standing said it’s was false 

[The Consigliere]

23 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My post was bringing home a response to the point that the dude was selling Trubisky squarely based on Allen Robinson's numbers citing that as a point of Trubisky's production.  My point in return was Trubisky wasn't really a productive player on a number of metrics, ironically some of the same ones we kill Heinicke here for. 

 

I have no problem diving even deeper in Trubisky's numbers, I've done it before.  Too lazy to do it right now.  You don't really have to cherry pick much to slam him -- many of his numbers are eerily almost identical to Sam Darnold.

 

But as I said the dude is fast.  I don't care for Trubisky as a passer and I think are limits to his issues are on Nagy argument just like there was with Darnold's struggles were on Gase.    But the difference for me is I like Trubiusky's elusivness in the pocket and running ability.  That's not sarcasm on my end.  If I hated Trubisky I would say it.  i am not excited one whit about Trubisky but I don't hate him specifically because of his mobility.  

I don't think the mobility matters when you're as bad as he is as a thrower. He's just god awful. I've seen Jimmy G play well in multiple seasons (and I don't want him), I've never seen Trubisky string together multiple games of quality let alone seasons. I see zero point in it personally beyond helping the tank for the '23 QB class, it would definitely help there. 

[RWJ]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

They didn't talk about a rumor about him coming here, Finlay just threw Wentz at him hypothetically.

 

Overall nothing new in the soup with Keim except for the Willis part which is notable for me.   

 

Keim even got into if you are drafting a QB who is more on the raw side they'd have to follow the program set up by the team.  And he goes Rivera did that with Cam and Cam followed the program to a tee.  Keim was hinting, and that wasn't the first time that the QB has to be a worker and the way he talks about the point its clear that he's referencing Haskins' lack of committment.  His point is to develop a QB its a two way street.

This is notable.  I've posted on ES that Willis's Dad and RR are very good friends.  That might mean something or nothing.  If we do draft Wills then it's apparent we need a bridge QB that will teach him right and give us a chance to win.  We'd be looking at best available FA.  We know that we tried to trade for Trubisky last season and we have a shot at him this FA as well as Winston.  Who's the best leader as far as FA?  Trubisky/Mariota/Wintston who would be the best leader to teach and learn from for Willis IF he's drafted and fits in with what RR did with Cam while at Carolina.  Just pondering on what you said.   Your thoughts are welcomed.  

14 minutes ago, Hitman#21 said:

This isn’t true, standing said it’s was false 

These NFL beat writers/organizations FAKE NEWS will do anything to get a hit on their tweets and stories.  Hard to find reliable sources out there.  They are few.  At least we have Keim as our local guy.  

[skinny21]

26 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I don't think the mobility matters when you're as bad as he is as a thrower. He's just god awful. I've seen Jimmy G play well in multiple seasons (and I don't want him), I've never seen Trubisky string together multiple games of quality let alone seasons. I see zero point in it personally beyond helping the tank for the '23 QB class, it would definitely help there. 

Who would you prefer over Trubisky if you’re looking for a cheap stopgap?

 

I am not at all excited about bringing him in, but there’s a small chance his time in Buffalo (and as a backup to a talented qb) improved his game slightly.  The combo of being cheap, having decent athleticism, and that small chance he’s improved make him (IMO) a decent option from a field of pretty poor options (in terms of a stopgap guy to compete with Heinicke and a rook).  To be clear, I’m not viewing him as some sort of reclamation project, simply a placeholder.

 

@RWJThat’s what I’ve been wondering as well - who’s fits the bill as a cheap, veteran stopgap option that can a decent example to a rook (this probably rules out Wentz and Winston, even if they’re more talented than some of the other stopgap options, and Garoppolo as we’d likely need to extend him for significant money).

 

BTW, I’m happy to hear we’re intrigued by Willis… especially since I think we need to muddy the waters a bit (to try to get trading partners in the draft if nothing else)

Edited February 18, 2022 by skinny21

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

No chance I’d do that deal with the Browns.

Is this because of how you view Mayfield and/or Landry?  Or the cap space required to extend both?  Not wanting to lose Sweat?

 

Just curious.  I have to admit, I’m relatively clueless regarding the rest of the league…

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I saw that tweet yesterday.  I almost posted it.  I've said similar things before based on what's been said in podcasts, I'd add Keim said he heard that Hurney was a big Herbert guy before that draft alas though he wasn't here at the time. 

 

I've heard multiple times they weren't high on Tua, and heard Rivera speak about it in an interview last year citing Tua's injury so whenever anyone brings up Tua I am very skeptical that he'd be a target. 

 

 

 

 

I am not big on Trubisky but digesting him, my thought is quick throws in the flat is his thing, too. And he would be for free.   

 

So yeah agree why give up draft picks and major cap room for Jimmy G.

 

Listening to that podcast the thing that turned me off the most is about how Jimmy G likes to chill in the off season and doesn't like to do get togethers with receivers.  Not that its the be all and end all if a QB does that but I don't love that whole explanation. 

You already know my take here but the evals can't be good if they have Fields and Mac Jones w/in trading distance, and pass for FitzMagic, Heinicke and a freaking LB. Great to know they had Herbert right, but they totally blew it by not selecting him with that knowledge in '20, and not taking a QB in '21 which renders the whole argument that they know what they're doing a complete non-starter. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

This is notable.  I've posted on ES that Willis's Dad and RR are very good friends.  That might mean something or nothing.  If we do draft Wills then it's apparent we need a bridge QB that will teach him right and give us a chance to win.  We'd be looking at best available FA.  We know that we tried to trade for Trubisky last season and we have a shot at him this FA as well as Winston.  Who's the best leader as far as FA?  Trubisky/Mariota/Wintston who would be the best leader to teach and learn from for Willis IF he's drafted and fits in with what RR did with Cam while at Carolina.  Just pondering on what you said.   Your thoughts are welcomed.  

 

I recall you saying that.

 

I've debated some on this point with some on the draft thread but my quick take is this:

 

A.  Rivera talks gleefully even recently about Cam in his prime.  He's also talked about how hard its to defend mobile QBs.  His staff was inventive when Cam entered the league, adopting Cam's college offense to the pros among other things.  

 

B.  Turner's offense IMO observation is heavy dependant on play action off of an outside zone running game.  Heavy with boots, roll outs, sweeps, misdirection coming from the backfield. If you add a mobile Qb to that formula it fits well IMO.

 

C.  the fan base is flat.  I know some argue that these fans don't have the patience for a raw QB.  IMO though Willis is the perfect QB to generate some excitment.  The best selling jersey right now in Virginia let alone Maryland is Lamar Jackson.  The most fan excitement we've had under Dan was 2012.  Granted things have to work out but in the meantime I think fans will be plenty patient for a player like Malik Willis.

 

 

 

https://www.panthers.com/news/malik-willis-making-his-mark-applying-his-lessons

MOBILE, Ala. — When Malik Willis was growing up in Atlanta, he sought the counsel of another quarterback. He was older, and much larger, but they went to the same high school, and seeing his mentor make it to the NFL and eventually the Super Bowl made an impression.

"It was cool," Willis said of growing up near the hometown of Panthers quarterback Cam Newton. "It was definitely cool. He went to the Super Bowl and he's like from 15 minutes from where I live, so that's cool."

But Willis wasn't just a star-struck fan, he was a talented player in his own right. So as he got to Westlake High School and played for Newton's 7-on-7 team, he got advice from the man who was in the place he wanted to eventually be.

"He always gave me little nuggets of information that I could keep with me for the rest of my life," Willis said. "He's definitely been a big part of that."

 

True to Newton's nature, only part of those lessons were about football. Willis said Newton's message was as much about personal development and responsibility, and making sure they had done enough to prepare themselves for the next challenge, because there's always a next challenge.

"I mean, more than anything, he was telling us about stuff off the field, being careful in whatever we do," Willis said. "And taking advantage of what we have, and using your work ethic for your best advantage. Trying to get where you're trying to go, and understand you can't do what everybody else is doing if you're trying to get where they're not. Just focusing on those things, more than anything.

"When we were on the 7-on-7 team, he'd tell us about that competition we're going against, that's 10 percent of what you're working against when you're working out, doing extra work. You're going against him one day a week; you're going against everybody else all the other days of the week."

Willis internalized those lessons, and even followed Newton's path to Auburn for a few years, before transferring to Liberty and becoming the kind of quarterback who could also be a high first-round pick.

This week, he's impressing scouts at the Senior Bowl, a significant step up in terms of competition for him, but one he doesn't look out of place taking.

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

 

lol, no kidding, which is exactly why I was right all 2020 offseason (but, lol, not right about the guy to get). It was and always should have been QB at 2, period. Kind of hilarious that people still were arguing this, even in an espn article last summer. It goes w/o saying but must be said, if you don't have a legit QB, you don't matter, period. 

[RWJ]

9 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Who would you prefer over Trubisky if you’re looking for a cheap stopgap?

 

I am not at all excited about bringing him in, but there’s a small chance his time in Buffalo (and as a backup to a talented qb) improved his game slightly.  The combo of being cheap, having decent athleticism, and that small chance he’s improved make him (IMO) a decent option from a field of pretty poor options (in terms of a stopgap guy to compete with Heinicke and a rook).  To be clear, I’m not viewing him as some sort of reclamation project, simply a placeholder.

 

@RWJThat’s what I’ve been wondering as well - who’s fits the bill as a cheap, veteran stopgap option that can a decent example to a rook (this probably rules out Wentz and Winston, even if they’re more talented than some of the other stopgap options, and Garoppolo as we’d likely need to extend him for significant money).

This is hard to answer because your talking about cheap options.  Really Trubisky is the one I see them targeting.  He has the talent but remember Nagy was the HC.  I'd like to see how he would do under Zampese and he fits Turner's O.  

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise I’m with you on Willis - I think the hope/potential can be a boost for the fan base more than one year of competency (ie getting Garoppolo, winning 9 or 10 games and getting into the playoffs).

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

You already know my take here but the evals can't be good if they have Fields and Mac Jones w/in trading distance, and pass for FitzMagic, Heinicke and a freaking LB. Great to know they had Herbert right, but they totally blew it by not selecting him with that knowledge in '20, and not taking a QB in '21 which renders the whole argument that they know what they're doing a complete non-starter. 

 

Hurney had Herbert ranked highly.  He was at Carolina at the time versus being here.

 

The idea of taking a QB in 2020, right after taking Haskins the year before when he was Dan's guy, the dude that Dan personally told anyone who would listen was the best player in that draft according to a story by a reputable reporter -- doesn't factor common FO politics especially for this club -- so in my book the criticism is based on fantasy land stuff so taking a dig at Rivera on this is simply frustration (which I get) versus anything I can take too seriously.

 

As for Fields they swung and missed.  Whomever they talked to wanted the moon, I don't know which team that was.  Keim mentioned they tried to trade for him.  Only thing that came out was the team wanted both picks and players, don't know which players but supposedly the price was high. 

 

As for Mac Jones, I gather they weren't in love with him so they got that wrong.  I liked him, not too many agreed with me on the draft thread about that though.   Rumor was they'd take Jones if he fell to their pick but they didn't like him enough to trade up for him. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise