The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

58 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

My issue with this stuff is really straightforward. I don't care that they're quoting other sources, other coaches, etc. about their opinions. That's fine. It's legit journalism. What annoys me is when they, very intentionally IMO, try and misrepresent it as any sort of actual inside information. Or they do what Schefter did there and pull the old bait and switch where he says "signs continue to point to..." followed by quotes from people who have absolutely no actual information on the Commanders process.

 

And I have no idea if they're taking Daniels. If any/all of this smoke is true, then I'd be very surprised if he fits what GMAP and DQ want from a culture standpoint, but I assume they're doing their due diligence there as well.

 

And I can take a guess, but it would 100% be biased and colored by my opinion on the matter. I think Maye is the best fit, followed by McCarthy, followed by Daniels. 

 

OK I was gathering you thought no shot its Daniels when you are describing him on and off as somewhat of a clown show.  

 

So OK you think they take Maye.    My take is it's possible.  I hope so.  

 

I've been back and forth as for guessing, not what i want, but just rumorville stuff, guessing between Maye and Daniels.  Today I'd guess Daniels.   While I agree it doesn't matter what other coaches and GMs think about these QBs, I get why some reporters think Peters might feel the same.  But clearly we don't know.  It's not hard to guess though that at a minimum they are intrigued by Daniels.  If they weren't they would unlikely continue to entertain him.

 

Don't love Keim saying he believes Maye is #3 with them at this moment.  The thing is with Maye as much as I love the player.  I don't dismiss his warts.  And if he's #3 with them (granted we don't know for sure but its possible) than I am guessing his warts bother them to some extent.    No shot Keim to me is just spitballing out of nowhere on that.  It's too specific for a spitball and Keim doesn't spitball unless he's asked to spitball.  Now his source could be wrong.  It's happened to Keim before, rare, but possible.

 

Having said that every day during draft week typically is like an eternity and rumors tend to shift.  So it all can take some type of turn.  And clearly there is enough ambiguity that we won't know until we know.  that would be wild to wait for the pick to come in and not know.  But fun.

 

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Are you saying you think Nabers success was mostly due to Daniels? If so, I'd watch the cutups of Nabers. Dude is ridiculous and regularly made DBs look like clowns. Same with Thomas.

Thomas was a 5 star recruit waiting to bust out also. That's the way I took it too, Daniels was responsible for their development. 

[Warhead36]

I dont think Keim has any sources in our building anymore. This regime is just super tight lipped. 

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK I was gathering you thought no shot its Daniels when you are describing him on and off as somewhat of a clown show.  

 

So OK you think they take Maye.    My take is it's possible.  I hope so.  

 

I've been back and forth as for guessing, not what i want, but just rumorville stuff, guessing between Maye and Daniels.  Today I'd guess Daniels.   While I agree it doesn't matter what other coaches and GMs think about these QBs, I get why some reporters think Peters might feel the same.  But clearly we don't know.  It's not hard to guess though that at a minimum they are intrigued by Daniels.  If they weren't they would unlikely continue to entertain him.

 

Don't love Keim saying he believes Maye is #3 with them at this moment.  The thing is with Maye as much as I love the player.  I don't dismiss his warts.  And if he's #3 with them (granted we don't know for sure but its possible) than I am guessing his warts bother them to some extent.    No shot Keim to me is just spitballing out of nowhere on that.  It's too specific for a spitball and Keim doesn't spitball unless he's asked to spitball.  Now his source could be wrong.  It's happened to Keim before, rare, but possible.

 

Having said that every day during draft week typically is like an enternity and rumors tend to shift.  So it all can take some type of turn.  And clearly there is enough ambiguity that we won't know until we know.  that would be wild to wait for the pick to come in and not know.  But fun.

 

 

A month ago my guess would have been Maye, Daniels, then McCarthy. But all of this potential character stuff about Daniels has pushed him down and McCarthy up. And that's not just my opinion on it, but would be my guess if this potential character stuff ends up holding true at all. I just can't see that sort of nonsense flying for GMAP and DQ, regardless of what they think of his talent. 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

A month ago my guess would have been Maye, Daniels, then McCarthy. But all of this potential character stuff about Daniels has pushed him down and McCarthy up. And that's not just my opinion on it, but would be my guess if this potential character stuff ends up holding true at all. I just can't see that sort of nonsense flying for GMAP and DQ, regardless of what they think of his talent. 

 

Many say Daniels is a really good dude.  Whether the agent or his mom supersedes that, I got no idea.   Whether they are bothered by his jacket or whatever, you got me.  I am not saying for better or worse as to his character.  I got no idea.  Don't get me wrong its perfectly fine to guess.  But their guess should be miles more educated than our guess on this specific aspect of the call. 

 

If some want to argue we know enough football to the extent that our takes are just as valid as Peters' take as to evaluating the QBs considering the crap shoot aspect of picking a QB -- I entertain that point to some extent

 

But the one thing I can count on them knowing more than we do is about the personalities and what other people who interacted with them feel about them.  I've read many articles on the subject over the years and heard ex-GMs talk about it.  How do they treat people? Their work habits?  Do teammates like them?  On and on of course.

 

Especially in recent years these teams from what Ive read exhaustively explore their personalities.  Heck Daniels hinted at it in the interview he did with Shannon.  I read a story about a team hiring their own driver to pose as driving service at the airport to pick up a player just to see how that player interacts with them.  They talk to weight room trainers, assistants, anyone that they can about the dude.  Not that it guarantees they get it right.  But I bet their dossiers on these guys personality is as thick as their evautations of them as players.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I dont think Keim has any sources in our building anymore. This regime is just super tight lipped. 

 

Agree they are super tight lipped.

 

But how did he come up with Quinn killed in the interview bit, they won't rebrand this year, got some FAs targets right, etc. 

 

I get that agents could be part of that but why would agents give a rats behind about stuff like rebranding?

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Especially in recent years these team from what Ive read exhaustively explore their personalities.  Heck Daniels hinted at it in the interview he did with Shannon.  I read a story about a team hiring their own driver to pose as driving service at the airport to pick up a player just to see how that player interacts with them. 

 

The Deshaun Watson effect. I don't blame teams for pursuing all avenues to vet these guys. Too much is at stake for them, obviously. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

The Deshaun Watson effect. I don't blame teams for pursuing all avenues to vet these guys. Too much is at stake for them, obviously. 

 

Yep.

 

Riddick among others was talking about this the other day from his conversations with FOs.  These guys are supposedly obssessed with every aspect of their personalities.  Sounds like maybe too obsessed.   He mentioned stuff like some players are so obssessed with video games that they play into the wee hours of the night and don't get sleep.  How do they treat people in the cafeteria.  Are they pain in the butts when it comes to asking for tickets for their friends at their games and whine if the seats aren't good.  On and on and on.

 

And with Peters reputation for exhausting every piece of info -- I'd wager a guess that they can pull off one heck of a personal profile of these QBs.

 

While as i mentioned I don't hate but also don't love these rumors about McCarthy.  It's not hard to see if you are going purely on personality, McCarthy is the rock star on that front. At least based on public information.

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Didn't Keim mention he heard from people inside the building that Quinn was a serious candidate? He's not framing it the same way now. He's saying he's only hearing about Daniels from talking to people outside the org that like him.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

...I got no idea...you got me...I got no idea...I can count on them knowing more than we do...

 

What the...did you forget what site you're on?? lol...

[Panninho]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I get that agents could be part of that but why would agents give a rats behind about stuff like rebranding?

I mean the re-branding was just kind of logical. They have so much other stuff to do first. The whole organization was (and still is at many aspects) a ****show. Focusing on operational excellence over a re-branding when you have limited resources is a pretty obvious choice. Especially in a closed environment like the NFL. I think also lower tier employees could have told you that if you weren't gutsy enough to make that call yourself.

[Going Commando]

I don't like Daniels and would never pick him over Maye.  But I would never pick McCarthy over Daniels either.

 

Valuing McCarthy over Daniels requires a complete abandonment of a film based evaluation.  It's banking everything on this nebulous, Q-Rating based assessment of intangibles.  There is no way in Hell I would ever do that if I were in charge.  A GM can make a weak case for Daniels at 2 and still have some claim to competence, but not with McCarthy.  That would be proof of incompetence for me.  His tape sucks and he wouldn't sniff the first round if his team hadn't won the NC.  Maybe he ends up on a loaded NFL team and plays in a training wheels offense again, and continues winning while having zero individual playmaking burden.  But valuing this kid over Maye is tantamount to valuing Jimmie Garappalo and Alex Smith over Josh Allen.  It's something only an incompetent GM would do.  John Keim reversing course and floating this kid week of the draft proves he doesn't have **** this year.  He's blowing with the winds and getting played by the last person he talked to.

 

Maye is the only good choice.  We have beaten this dead horse into dust, and he has been the only good choice the entire time.  He is the one a competent FO would draft at 2, and I hope we do.

[DogofWar1]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Smoke = Information from someone inside the organization in question

 

Anything else is just opinion from people completely uninvolved in the Commander's decision making process.

 

We should call the latter Fog.

 

Lots of fog out there, but not as much smoke.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Didn't Keim mention he heard from people inside the building that Quinn was a serious candidate? He's not framing it the same way now. He's saying he's only hearing about Daniels from talking to people outside the org that like him.

 

He did.

 

Keim has been asked to guess from different reporters.  When he guesses he explains exactly what his guess is based on -- what other coaches, personnel people think of the QBs.   But flat out says he doesn't have a specific source telling him from the team. 

 

I don't think its because his sources have dried up as some suggest, its that Peters is so tight lipped that people in that building don't know.  So your source would have to be I gather either Peters or Quinn.   I think it was Breer who said people in that building don't know.  It's that close lipped.  So on that front i agree anything is possible.  And Keim isn't saying anything different from that.

 

But...

 

the idea that its more likely between Daniels and McCarthy, that doesn't sound like anything different than someone in that building might have helped ala the Quinn rumor back then.  Is Keim 100% right all the time.  Nope.  But I'd guess he's batting give or take 800 with what he shares.  So I think at a minimum it might not be Maye.

 

Having said that every day, during the week leading to the draft tends to be full of rumors and stuff and these rumors can take a turn even with Keim.  Lets say that one dude or whomever who told him that is wrong and the next day he gets different info from others in the building. Normally I don't expect that to happen but the last week of the draft tends to be a zoo, this is the type of week where stuff like that indeed happens, so I expect shifts. 

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Maye is the only good choice.  We have beaten this dead horse into dust, and he has been the only good choice the entire time.  He is the one a competent FO would draft at 2, and I hope we do.

That's how I feel too. But obviously you and I and the rest of Maye Nation appear to be missing something. 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Panninho said:

I mean the re-branding was just kind of logical. They have so much other stuff to do first. The whole organization was (and still is at many aspects) a ****show. Focusing on operational excellence over a re-branding when you have limited resources is a pretty obvious choice. Especially in a closed environment like the NFL. I think also lower tier employees could have told you that if you weren't gutsy enough to make that call yourself.

 

Sheehan among others were saying the opposite.

 

Yeah I listen to Keim a lot, maybe too much,  I've heard enough to know he has sources in that building still.  That was clear during the coaching season and FA.

 

Now it likely never will be what it was under Ron who couldn't keep his mouth shut.  If feels back to normal times with Keim where he seem to know some things that others didn't but it wasn't the insane level it was under Ron.  When Keim can go over their board round by round before it happens -- Ron clearly had some serious leaks in that building.

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He did.

 

Keim has been asked to guess from different reporters.  When he guesses he explains exactly what his guess is based on -- what other coaches, personnel people think of the QBs.   But flat out says he doesn't have a specific source telling him from the team. 

 

 

This is why I don't really have a problem with Keim. He readily admits that he doesn't have a source who's in the building and involved in the decision making process. The other guys do the bait and switch where they make it sound like they do, but then just quote other random people who aren't involved.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That's how I feel too. But obviously you and I and the rest of Maye Nation appear to be missing something. 

 

Do you have Daniels at #2 too like @Going Commando?  

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[Rolo Tomasie]

I think today and tomorrow are key days. I take them at their word that the teams decision makers on the draft are process driven and that all along they have scheduled decision time for early this week. That has probably contributed to why local and national media haven't been able to get a real leak. We'll see what comes out today and tomorrow. 

While I personally think all of the many, many media talking head suggestions that the pick is Daniels amounts to some "collective smoke" I do also think just the one statement by Spielman that its Maye could be enough to balance that out at the moment.

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That's how I feel too. But obviously you and I and the rest of Maye Nation appear to be missing something. 

 

Either New England and New York and Minnesota have all been waging an incredibly effective of campaign to get Maye to drop, or the kid has major skeletons in his closet.  Like serial arsonist or a having a compulsion to torture animals level skeletons.

 

I hope this has all been a bunch of nonsense and we pick Maye.

[Chump Bailey]

5 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

I do also think just the one statement by Spielman that its Maye could be enough to balance that out at the moment.

 

I like Rick quite a bit, but his QB picks were suspect.  

[Warhead36]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Do you have Daniels at #2 too like @Going Commando?  

Yeah I think he'll ultimately end up going #2. There is just way too much smoke and its hard for me to imagine a world where seemingly the entire league(or a big majority)like a guy and we like someone else completely different. 

 

I'm trying to talk myself into being happy about it and I can certainly see some of the positives, but too much of his game is a fugaze to me. Complete smoke and mirrors. And I'm afraid this pick will ultimately end up derailing Quinn's career(I could see Peters surviving if he does a good job building the rest of the roster, and throwing Quinn under the bus for the QB pick in 3-4 years or so).

[Panninho]

Just now, Chump Bailey said:

 

I like Rick quite a bit, but his QB picks were suspect.  

No one doubts that. But Spielman was in the room when they hired Peters and the QB position came up 100%. Because we haven't solved that in forever, so they definitely asked him what his approach is there. Basically a "how are you going to fix this?".

And Spielman sat in and heard that answer. So he knows at least how GMAP approaches this position and what he values. So his best guess might be better than another person's best guess. This is why some people feel like his quote might have some weight.

[jg77]

It's probably nothing but Tress Way jersey is 50% off right now. He's #5. 

 

Jayden wore 5 at ASU and LSU

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, jg77 said:

It's probably nothing but Tress Way jersey is 50% off right now. He's #5. 

 

Jayden wore 5 at ASU and LSU

Been that way for a while. Its his Washington Football Team jersey. His normal Commanders jersey is the regular price of $129.

Edited April 22 by Warhead36

[Panninho]

1 minute ago, jg77 said:

It's probably nothing but Tress Way jersey is 50% off right now. He's #5. 

 

Jayden wore 5 at ASU and LSU

No one knows except for the fanshop guy ❤️