The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Larson being in at Center and not having Charles sloppy ass next to him made a world of difference. 

 

We also sort of used the run game today to keep them a little off balance.

 

Do that and let the kid learn how to play in this league.

 

Can't let him just get pounded every snap and wonder why he isn't winning games.

 

Agree.

 

Hurts had all the time in the world to throw yesterday against this vaunted D line.  I know some here say don't throw resources at the O line shooting for just OK is plenty OK enough as the high bar, spend your money elsewhere.    I couldn't disagree more.  

 

I wached the Eagles pregame guys on youtube among them Greg Cosell and they made fun of this FO's neglect of the O line.  trashed Ron about it big time and rejoiced how the Eagles FO cares a lot about building up their O line.  Cosell made among other points saying a young QB with a bad O line is almost an impossible combination to succeed.

 

As for Howell being "solid".  And imagine if he had AJ Brown yesterday versus Terry (I love Terry but he was unclutch yesterday) and the Eagles O line protecting him?  

 

I understand 8 games in a young QBs career, you shouldn't expect any hiccups.  Kirk killed in 2013 and 2014 too, zero ups and downs that I can recall.   Peyton was brilliant from the start. Trevor Lawrence, hyped college QB and lived up to his hype from the jump his rookie season.  On and on and on.  Usually young QBs peak in season 1 and it just gets worse from there.   Smooth rides all of them.   I am shocked that Howell has had some ups and downs along this ride in his first 8 starts.

 

Fools gold.  75% completion percentage against one of the best defenses in the NFL.  4 TDs.  about 400 yards.  Is solid at best.   People are just hoping for hopes sake with a pedestrian game like that.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.

 

Hurts had all the time in the world to throw yesterday against this vaunted D line.  I know some here say don't throw resources at the O line shooting for just OK is plenty OK enough as the high bar, spend your money elsewhere.    I couldn't disagree more.  And for those who agree with this point, I am surprised they are also out on Ron because to me it not only seems to be the Ron philosophy to roster building, its practically his dogma.  

 

I wached the Eagles pregame guys on youtube among them Greg Cosell and they mad fun of this FO's neglect of the O line.  trashed Ron about it big time and rejoiced how the Eagles FO cares a lot about building up their O line.  Cosell among other points saying a young QB with a bad O line is almost an impossible combination to succeed.

 

As for Howell being "solid".  And imagine if he had AJ Brown yesterday versus Terry (I love Terry but he was unclutch yesterday) and the Eagles O line protecting him?  

 

I understands 8 games in a young QBs career, you shouldn't expect any hiccups.  Kirk killed in 2013 and 2014 too.  Peyton was brilliant from the start. Trevor Lawrence, hyped college QB and lived up to his hype from the jump his rookie season.  On and on and on.  Uusually young QBs peak in season 1 and it just gets worse from there.  I am shocked that Howell has had some ups and downs along this ride in his first 8 starts.

 

Fools good.  75% completion percentage against one of the best defenses in the NFL.  4 TDs.  about 400 yards.  Is solid at best.   People are just hoping for hopes sake with a pedestrian game like that.  

 

 

 

I love Terry, but we really over hype him. He plays like a Garcon type, but that's not his role. That's why I was always critical of the Dotson pick and preferred Pickens or Watson later in the draft, although Hines Ward and Art Monk are two of my favorite WRs. Big bully chain movers and possession types, who can block. AJ Brown is the second coming of Megatron and has been on a historic run since the first time we played them.

 

We **** about letting Brown do things, but he's doing that to every team in the league. Devonte Smith could be a top 5 WR in the league if he wasn't playing with Brown.

 

I'm glad thy finally made the changes at IOL that we've been calling for since TC. EB appointing Charles the starter day one was bad personnel management. 

 

Clinging to the mistakes in FA (Gates and Wylie) is hubris and helped cost us games.

 

Peyton had a ton of sacks his first two years in the league, too.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Devonte Smith could be a top 5 WR in the league if he wasn't playing with Brown.

Getting carried away there.  Smith at best would be in the Terry tier, which is clearly below guys like Brown, Chase, Jefferson.  
 

But yeah - Terry is a nicer guy than he is dominant WR.

Edited October 30, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Getting carried away there.  Smith at best would be in the Terry tier, which is clearly below guys like Brown, Chase, Jefferson.  

Definitely hyperbole. Lol, Smith ain't THAT good.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Getting carried away there.  Smith at best would be in the Terry tier, which is clearly below guys like Brown, Chase, Jefferson.  
 

But yeah - Terry is a nicer guy than he is dominant WR.

 

Just now, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Definitely hyperbole. Lol, Smith ain't THAT good.

Agree to disagree, but that's fine.

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.

 

Hurts had all the time in the world to throw yesterday against this vaunted D line.  I know some here say don't throw resources at the O line shooting for just OK is plenty OK enough as the high bar, spend your money elsewhere.    I couldn't disagree more.  

 

I wached the Eagles pregame guys on youtube among them Greg Cosell and they made fun of this FO's neglect of the O line.  trashed Ron about it big time and rejoiced how the Eagles FO cares a lot about building up their O line.  Cosell made among other points saying a young QB with a bad O line is almost an impossible combination to succeed.

 

As for Howell being "solid".  And imagine if he had AJ Brown yesterday versus Terry (I love Terry but he was unclutch yesterday) and the Eagles O line protecting him?  

 

I understand 8 games in a young QBs career, you shouldn't expect any hiccups.  Kirk killed in 2013 and 2014 too, zero ups and downs that I can recall.   Peyton was brilliant from the start. Trevor Lawrence, hyped college QB and lived up to his hype from the jump his rookie season.  On and on and on.  Usually young QBs peak in season 1 and it just gets worse from there.   Smooth rides all of them.   I am shocked that Howell has had some ups and downs along this ride in his first 8 starts.

 

Fools gold.  75% completion percentage against one of the best defenses in the NFL.  4 TDs.  about 400 yards.  Is solid at best.   People are just hoping for hopes sake with a pedestrian game like that.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who exactly here is promoting not building up a strong OL, that just OK is good enough?  Because I don't ever remember seeing that position, building a strong OL and how our OL is not nearly good enough is constantly discussed here.  

 

 

I'm glad to see the comments on Terry.  I've felt for a while that both Terry and Jon Allen are so overrated by our fans. They are very good players but they are not as good as so many here believe.  And we saw yesterday the difference between McLauren and AJ Brown who is actually a top tier WR.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

My primary thoughts are that I can’t believe we have to witness this defense 9 more times.  I have to go watch this tripe in person on the 19th, and then watch them roll over for Dallas 4 days later on Thanksgiving.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Who exactly here is promoting not building up a strong OL, that just OK is good enough?  Because I don't ever remember seeing that position, building a strong OL and how our OL is not nearly good enough is constantly discussed here.  

 

 

 

I am not calling out anyone.  But yeah I got into two different arguments here with two different people on the subject.   One making the case that the off season additions were good enough then citing other teams swinging for fences at that spot at failing, and this regime did fine at it and argued that the O line doesn't need to be a spot that is given extra resources.  Another doesn't care for Ron but thought the O line was good enough and agreed with Ron to not put more resources in the unit than he has because they preferred those resources would have been put elsewhere.

 

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My primary thoughts are that I can’t believe we have to witness this defense 9 more times.  I have to go watch this tripe in person on the 19th, and then watch them roll over for Dallas 4 days later on Thanksgiving.

 

Heck I am flying up for that game, I am taking that up a notch further. 

 

15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I love Terry, but we really over hype him. He plays like a Garcon type, but that's not his role. That's why I was always critical of the Dotson pick and preferred Pickens or Watson later in the draft, although Hines Ward and Art Monk are two of my favorite WRs. Big bully chain movers and possession types, who can block. AJ Brown is the second coming of Megatron and has been on a historic run since the first time we played them.

 

We **** about letting Brown do things, but he's doing that to every team in the league. Devonte Smith could be a top 5 WR in the league if he wasn't playing with Brown.

 

I'm glad thy finally made the changes at IOL that we've been calling for since TC. EB appointing Charles the starter day one was bad personnel management. 

 

Clinging to the mistakes in FA (Gates and Wylie) is hubris and helped cost us games.

 

Peyton had a ton of sacks his first two years in the league, too.

 

 

 

Devonte was one of my guys in that draft.  So was Terry ironically in his draft.   I do think Terry >> Devonte.  But I like Devonte.  But also AJ Brown >> Terry.

 

Terry is typically clutch.  It wasn't like him yesterday.  It's odd that both Dotson and Terry let Howell down in the crunch back to back games.  

Edited October 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Terry is typically clutch.  It wasn't like him yesterday.  It's odd that both Dotson and Terry let Howell down in the crunch back to back games.  

Poorly coached teams with no future don't make clutch plays.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

As much as I want to see him gone, I don't want to see a spinoff of this regime to take over which likely happens if he's canned now. And I want a full vetting process of the GMs which you can't do right now.  So I'd ride the Ron ride as painful as it is to the bitter end.  But part of me would enjoy it in part because Ron is just begging for it.  I've lost any of my goodwill I've had for him when he leaves at least in the context of being canned.  At the start of the off season, when new ownership was on the horizon I wanted him gone but without any emotion and felt a bit bad for him.  But after this disaster off season, coupled with his delusional-arrogant statements, I am going to enjoy it when he's canned.  

 

This time, the Bieniemy playbook called for short, quick strikes — but 52 of them. Howell threw the ball 52 times! The Commanders, with a bull of a running back in Brian Robinson Jr. and a promising rookie in Chris Rodriguez, ran the ball just 16 times. Robinson had 5.9 yards per carry on 10 carries and, inexplicably, Rodriguez didn’t play at all. The week before against the Giants, Rodriguez had seven carries for 31 yards, a 4.4 yard-per-carry average.

No paper crown for Bieniemy. All he did Sunday was prove how bad he has been at his job for much of this season.

Rivera had his typical clueless moment in the game when he failed to challenge a completion to Eagles receiver DeVonta Smith that appeared to be incomplete. When asked why he didn’t challenge the call, Rivera responded, “Because I didn’t see it on the screen.” It really doesn’t matter what the rest of his explanation was.

When it came time to sing Howell’s praises, Rivera was muted. “There’s some really good things in the first half — a little bit of a slow start in the third quarter, but he came out of it and was able to push the ball downfield, especially when we got into the hurry-up situations,” he said. “He (Howell) really handled those things. This is all growth and development.”

I think everyone would rather that growth and development for Howell take place with a new coaching staff and front office personnel.

Rivera said he was “only going to talk about one game at a time. That’s the truth of the matter.” But I believe the truth of the matter is that Commanders fans would just as soon blow through the rest of this season as quickly as possible so that new owner Josh Harris can put his imprint on the direction of this franchise on the field. He started last week with the hiring of Eugene Shen as senior vice president of football strategy.

I mean, are you really looking forward to the Giants, Dallas Cowboys, Miami Dolphins and San Francisco 49ers coming to FedEx Field the rest of the year and watching more of this inconsistent, sometimes incoherent, football strategy?

Edited October 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

Sam continues to make it appealing to a new front office and staff.  As we saw yesterday, with an actual game plan that helps him out, he thrives.  

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Poorly coached teams with no future don't make clutch plays.

 

Feels that way -- the doomed losing regime playing out their last season.  We've seen that movie before. 

 

I don't enjoy being right about this.  And it didn't take Nostradamas to predict this.  And I know you were with the same point.  That is, Rivera's lackluster off season.

 

Some people made fun of me when I made this case this off season.  You got a stimulated fan base.  Throwing them some bones.  For some "aggressiveness" means stupid because of Vinny Cerrato-Dan's version of that.  The thing is they were just stupid.  It wasn't that they were aggressive and being aggressive by nature means stupid.  Some are conditioned to think that way.  Heck some would defend Bruce's regime in part by lauding his lack of aggressiveness.  So year he made low key, cheap FA signings like Quick, Pryor, etc.  But heck at least the misses aren't big misses.  That alone should be applauded.

 

We've escaped though the dungeon and low expectations.  We got a competent owner who shoots for the fences.  An owner who cares about hiring top personnel people and giving them all the resources they need.  Night and day from the previous clown show ownership.  We can dream bigger.

 

If people don't like aggressive acquistions in trades-FA, Howie Roseman style.  Then how about Howie Roseman style, trading down, acquiring multiple draft picks to build for the future.  That's something that Dan, Bruce or Ron doesn't do. 

 

When Keim mentioned in a tweet, an aggressive off season I doubt it was by accident.  Aside from Ron going with no frills, non sexy offseasons -- he doubled down on that approach in the worst year to do it.  The year where fans are coming back and interested.  He had organic interest from fans and he could care less about it.    And look I don't care about having sexier off seasons if the regime is really good at what they do.  but this regime isn't.  So if you go 7-10, couple with doing everything in a bland way -- its death to stir fan interest.

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

30 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I love Terry, but we really over hype him.

 

I think we used to, but haven't in a year or two.  IMO Terry is accurately placed as a top 15 receiver.  He's always been a body catcher and that has limited his upside, but he is genuinely elite at getting separation on short and intermediate concepts and making tough catches in the middle of the field.  He's also a beast of a blocker and a true leader, and these are Larry Fitzgerald esque traits that go unappreciated on bad teams like we are this year.

 

I agree that his role has been wrong for him in Bieniemy's offense, and it's clear to me that our receivers are not going to consistently thrive in an Andy Reid system.  The system wastes it's receivers, while our top three receivers are the best players in our offense.  When you feature Terry early and often in a game via slants and crossers and let him smoke his coverage right out of those breaks, he can take over those games because no DB is hanging with him on a slant.  Instead we waste his quickness by having all of his concepts break way down field.

[Chris 44]

The downfall of this coaching staff has been their reluctance, bordering on arrogance, to make changes that seem so obvious to the rest of the world. Its not just the OL, you can make a point that they continue to try to pound square objects into round holes at most every position, draft selection and scheme.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Chris 44

[Koolblue13]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As much as I want to see him gone, I don't want to see a spinoff of this regime to take over which likely happens if he's canned now. And I want a full vetting process of the GMs which you can't do right now.  So I'd ride the Ron ride as painful as it is to the bitter end.  But part of me would enjoy it in part because Ron is just begging for it.  I've lost any of my goodwill I've had for him when he leaves at least in the context of being canned.  At the start of the off season, when new ownership was on the horizon I wanted him gone but without any emotion and felt a bit bad for him.  But after this disaster off season, coupled with his delusional-arrogant statements, I am going to enjoy it when he's canned.  

 

This time, the Bieniemy playbook called for short, quick strikes — but 52 of them. Howell threw the ball 52 times! The Commanders, with a bull of a running back in Brian Robinson Jr. and a promising rookie in Chris Rodriguez, ran the ball just 16 times. Robinson had 5.9 yards per carry on 10 carries and, inexplicably, Rodriguez didn’t play at all. The week before against the Giants, Rodriguez had seven carries for 31 yards, a 4.4 yard-per-carry average.

No paper crown for Bieniemy. All he did Sunday was prove how bad he has been at his job for much of this season.

Rivera had his typical clueless moment in the game when he failed to challenge a completion to Eagles receiver DeVonta Smith that appeared to be incomplete. When asked why he didn’t challenge the call, Rivera responded, “Because I didn’t see it on the screen.” It really doesn’t matter what the rest of his explanation was.

When it came time to sing Howell’s praises, Rivera was muted. “There’s some really good things in the first half — a little bit of a slow start in the third quarter, but he came out of it and was able to push the ball downfield, especially when we got into the hurry-up situations,” he said. “He (Howell) really handled those things. This is all growth and development.”

I think everyone would rather that growth and development for Howell take place with a new coaching staff and front office personnel.

Rivera said he was “only going to talk about one game at a time. That’s the truth of the matter.” But I believe the truth of the matter is that Commanders fans would just as soon blow through the rest of this season as quickly as possible so that new owner Josh Harris can put his imprint on the direction of this franchise on the field. He started last week with the hiring of Eugene Shen as senior vice president of football strategy.

I mean, are you really looking forward to the Giants, Dallas Cowboys, Miami Dolphins and San Francisco 49ers coming to FedEx Field the rest of the year and watching more of this inconsistent, sometimes incoherent, football strategy?

So, Ron is taking credit for Sams performance, because of their absolute negligence so far this season. 

[Chris 44]

13 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think we used to, but haven't in a year or two.  IMO Terry is accurately placed as a top 15 receiver.  He's always been a body catcher and that has limited his upside, but he is genuinely elite at getting separation on short and intermediate concepts and making tough catches in the middle of the field.  He's also a beast of a blocker and a true leader, and these are Larry Fitzgerald esque traits that go unappreciated on bad teams like we are this year.

 

I agree that his role has been wrong for him in Bieniemy's offense, and it's clear to me that our receivers are not going to consistently thrive in an Andy Reid system.  The system wastes it's receivers, while our top three receivers are the best players in our offense.  When you feature Terry early and often in a game via slants and crossers and let him smoke his coverage right out of those breaks, he can take over those games because no DB is hanging with him on a slant.  Instead we waste his quickness by having all of his concepts break way down field.

Agree with everything, him being a body catcher though is something that he doesn't have to do. We have seen on many occasions where he goes up for balls and snatches them out of thin air. He doesn't need to body catch, he has great hands, but sometimes he tends to do just that.

[Warhead36]

I dont understand the EB criticism. The offense was humming all day. The only negative mark he gets is the 4th and 1 playcall.

[method man]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I dont understand the EB criticism. The offense was humming all day. The only negative mark he gets is the 4th and 1 playcall.

I don’t either. Yes it was 52 passes but so much of it was quick passing game getting guys in space. What a dinosaur like Loverro doesn’t get is that the volume of passing opened up the run game and so many of those rushing yards came on on one run. I do think it was a mistake, however, not giving Rodriguez some carries

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I dont understand the EB criticism. The offense was humming all day. The only negative mark he gets is the 4th and 1 playcall.

They have got to find a way to run the ball. I understand going away from it if its not working, but 56 drop backs is over the top and not sustainable. I get that the quick slants etc. being extension of the running game and we need them but they have to scheme in more running plays into the game plan.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I dont understand the EB criticism. The offense was humming all day. The only negative mark he gets is the 4th and 1 playcall.

The 3rd and 5 bubble screen on the first or second drive was killer also.  But yeah, easily his best game scheme wise- just two really poor situational calls that were costly.

[DJHJR86]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I dont understand the EB criticism. The offense was humming all day. The only negative mark he gets is the 4th and 1 playcall.

 

He's called 2 great games and both of them were against the Eagles.  Teams cannot run the ball against the Eagles, so throwing against them is the only way to beat them.  However, going forward there needs to be more balance.  But I suspect it's going to be more of the same.  5 step drop backs on almost every down.  

[Koolblue13]

Can't score 21 points in a quarter if the other team has the ball and the way to do that is to run the ball.

 

It wears a defense down and keeps the other offense off the field.

 

52 passes to 12 runs is absurd.

 

*necessary disclaimer so I don't have to hear it again and again*- I know short passes and screens can be an extension of the running game.

 

It's not the same.

[Warhead36]

Regarding Terry, he's a good to very good WR, but he isn't elite. He's firmly in that 2nd tier of WRs. He's definitely a WR1, but he's not an A1 hotsauce dominate everytime guy like a Hill, Brown, Jefferson, etc. 

[FootballZombie]

EB had a great game yesterday and he gets credit for that. Waaay more good than bad.

Still gotta do something about that offensive imbalance tho, its quite comical.

 

 

 

I still have him sucking on aggregate for the year-to-date however, and its not close. If only he could play the Eagles every week, he'd be great.

[Warhead36]

I wouldn't harp on the 52 passes that much. Remember that stat gets inflated by having to pass every play on the last drive of each half. And then you take into account the Eagles #1 ranked rush defense while we had two backups on our OL.