The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinsfan66]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Their GM Joe Douglas was hailed as a star when he was hired.  Came out of the Eagles system, big rep.  His draft record, been mixed though.  And while he didn't make the Sam Darnold pick, he does have to wear the Zach Wilson pick.

 

Like us, they build a good defense.  Good RBs when healthy.  Good weapons.  But tough to win with crap QB play

 

 

No mention of no OL here?

[skinsfan66]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Their GM Joe Douglas was hailed as a star when he was hired.  Came out of the Eagles system, big rep.  His draft record, been mixed though.  And while he didn't make the Sam Darnold pick, he does have to wear the Zach Wilson pick.

 

Like us, they build a good defense.  Good RBs when healthy.  Good weapons.  But tough to win with crap QB play

 

 

How do Philly, SF, OL rank? They can win with backups. It's always the QB that gets the blame in wash. but every year we have a new one.  We have a great OL coach right? numbers do not lie?  But the blitz comes, no one gets blocked, the QB gets smashed whatever team, makes no difference.  It's the play calling? Its the QB, Let's get rid of them.  2 biggest plays in Giants games were unblocked blindside hits near the goal line that changed both games. But the QB fumbled one and got sacked on the other it's his fault. How can you call pass if you cannot not block when they bring pressure? 

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I highly doubt that Ron is going to hang his career on a 5th round rookie, despite one of his Martys in his ear.

 

So far he has been hanging his hat on the wrong racks. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

How do Philly, SF, OL rank? They can win with backups. It's always the QB that gets the blame in wash. but every year we have a new one.  We have a great OL coach right? numbers do not lie?  But the blitz comes, no one gets blocked, the QB gets smashed whatever team, makes no difference.  It's the play calling? Its the QB, Let's get rid of them.  2 biggest plays in Giants games were unblocked blindside hits near the goal line that changed both games. But the QB fumbled one and got sacked on the other it's his fault. How can you call pass if you cannot not block when they bring pressure? 

 

No one disagrees that the O line doesn't need major upgrades.  It was good in Ron's first two years but it fell apart this year.

 

Not sure the point you are driving at -- Heinicke might be the guy?

 

54 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

No mention of no OL here?

 

I talk about O line in 50 million posts 😉 including even in one of the posts in the exchanges about the Jets.

 

But yeah when I was specifically talking about the defense, where you quoted the defenses ranking, I stuck to the defense.  I didn't feel like I had to mention the O line again in that specific post.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I highly doubt that Ron is going to hang his career on a 5th round rookie, despite one of his Martys in his ear.

 

I agree.  And I don't blame him.  I would double up, too.  But I wouldn't spend a lot of money.  Hence someone like Brissett.  And I'd double down with someone in the draft if they like that dude, as you know I keep pushing Haener.

 

I am intrigued by Howell but as Jay Gruden said they'd know much deeper about what he can and can't do right now because you see a lot in practice.

 

Howell to me in the mix.  But I get not rolling the dice completely on him just yet. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

For everybody in here that wants Howell to succeed it will never happen per history if the OL and or coach is not fixed this offseason.  Even Brady cannot overcome a bad OL in Tampa with very good WR, RB in the fold. 

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

For everybody in here that wants Howell to succeed it will never happen per history if the OL and or coach is not fixed this offseason.  Even Brady cannot overcome a bad OL in Tampa with very good WR, RB in the fold. 

You should go to the Oline thread to talk about the Oline, because we all know the Oline was bad and the Oline needs improvement.

 

This is the QB thread were we talk about the QB position and what is happening at that QB position.

 

Do you understand what this means?

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree.  And I don't blame him.  I would double up, too.  But I wouldn't spend a lot of money.  Hence someone like Brissett.  And I'd double down with someone in the draft if they like that dude, as you know I keep pushing Haener.

 

I am intrigued by Howell but as Jay Gruden said they'd know much deeper about what he can and can't do right now because you see a lot in practice.

 

Howell to me in the mix.  But I get not rolling the dice completely on him just yet. 

I get it too, but after Ron has been swinging for the fences the last two years, I can't see him backing off of that. He's slow to make changes and it's a huge year for him.

 

I'm hoping that he completely fails again at landing a big fish and is kind of forced to ride with Howell, who proves him wrong. I can certainly imagine Ron being forced to settle for a Mayfield and then having a "fair camp battle" ala Fitz and Heini.

[NickyJ]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You should go to the Oline thread to talk about the Oline, because we all know the Oline was bad and the Oline needs improvement.

 

This is the QB thread were we talk about the QB position and what is happening at that QB position.

 

Do you understand what this means?

It means you think our TE roster is awesome and doesn't need any upgrades and you're trying to avoid talking about it. And the LBers. And kicker. And owner. And....

[skinsfan66]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No one disagrees that the O line doesn't need major upgrades.  It was good in Ron's first two years but it fell apart this year.

 

Not sure the point you are driving at -- Heinicke might be the guy?

 

 

I talk about O line in 50 million posts 😉 including even in one of the posts in the exchanges about the Jets.

 

But yeah when I was specifically talking about the defense, where you quoted the defenses ranking, I stuck to the defense.  I didn't feel like I had to mention the O line again in that specific post.

Just pointing out those teams have really good OL and that's a part of it to. Brady's Oline sucks injuries.. good Def per these numbers backed their way into playoffs loosing record. My point is very good defense, very good OL equals Very good team and it's not all about the QB. Also You can say by the numbers the OL was good a couple years ago, but the pass blocking still was not there, when pressure came they folded.  Is that a coach thing? I want Howell to succeed, I do not want the OL to be forgotten again.

[skinsfan66]

 Those teams on the top have really good OL's too and that needed to be stated  Their Backup QB's can hold the fort down with a good OL too. Went about it the wrong way.

[KDawg]

Just now, skinsfan66 said:

 Those teams on the top have really good OL's too and that needed to be stated  Their Backup QB's can hold the fort down with a good OL too. Went about it the wrong way.

Yeah, we all know our OL stinks and needs 3-5 new starters. It's on the top of most people's wish lists.

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

 Those teams on the top have really good OL's too and that needed to be stated  Their Backup QB's can hold the fort down with a good OL too. Went about it the wrong way.

The OL performed more than fine last year and Heinicke still stunk. The problem on the offense is not JUST the QB and playcalling—but it is ALSO the QB and playcalling. This thread is for QB so that’s where the majority of chatter here is going to focus. But everyone agrees we need to infuse talent into the OL again, they royally screwed the pooch on that one this past offseason. 

[Warhead36]

OL is 3rd priority behind QB and OC/playcaller.

[HigSkin]

 

 

[NickyJ]

People lumping Carr in with Brissett and Bridgewater are an alien people to me.

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

People lumping Carr in with Brissett and Bridgewater are an alien people to me.

Yeah he should be in that bottom group of superior but likely unattainable (for us) guys. Not in the top list. 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

People lumping Carr in with Brissett and Bridgewater are an alien people to me.

 

1 minute ago, Conn said:

Yeah he should be in that bottom group of superior but likely unattainable (for us) guys. Not in the top list. 

 

I don't know. Vet retreads with miles kind of all belong in the same kind of list.

 

Of course, some of those guys are better than others, but its the same kind of deal. 

 

I'd say Rodgers, Brady, Geno and Lamar should be in a vet retread list, too.

 

But to the point, that's not what the tweet did.

 

But I don't want Carr, either. But then again, I don't want Brady, Rodgers, Geno. Too late for us to get Fields, rookie window is minimized. 

[Comrade Wolf]

Quick questions for y’all:

 

is there a chance that Scott Turners offense is very well designed but he himself is a horrible play caller as in he lacks the ability to understand the flow of the game? I’m curious if his philosophy actually works with multiple types of skill sets at quarterback but he himself can’t figure out how to make it work in a game setting? 
 

Secondly , if he was let go do we think anyone would want to take the OC job here knowing that the entire coaching staff would likely be unemployed this time next year? I’m torn on this, I want to see Howell play in the system he already knows instead of learning a new one for the 23 season and then likely learning a 3rd system in 24 🤷‍♂️. IMO , keeping Scott might actually assist in his development more than letting him go. 
 

Can you hire or promote someone to do the play calling that isn’t the OC? 
 

 

[Chris 44]

Im worried that if you spend any sort of substantial resources to bring in someone to compete then Howell will not get a fair shake. So to me, as long as its a mid tier QB without spending a lot I'm good. But a mid tier where you give up a lot (Wentz, Fitz type) its not going to be a competition. 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Comrade Wolf said:

Quick questions for y’all:

 

is there a chance that Scott Turners offense is very well designed but he himself is a horrible play caller as in he lacks the ability to understand the flow of the game? I’m curious if his philosophy actually works with multiple types of skill sets at quarterback but he himself can’t figure out how to make it work in a game setting? 
 

Secondly , if he was let go do we think anyone would want to take the OC job here knowing that the entire coaching staff would likely be unemployed this time next year? I’m torn on this, I want to see Howell play in the system he already knows instead of learning a new one for the 23 season and then likely learning a 3rd system in 24 🤷‍♂️. IMO , keeping Scott might actually assist in his development more than letting him go. 
 

Can you hire or promote someone to do the play calling that isn’t the OC? 
 

 

 

I think Turner is good with design, bad with implementation/calls.

 

I think he has too much cute stuff in it. But otherwise I think his offense works. He just hasn't figured out the feel for a game OR he's afraid of making playcalling mistakes. 

[NickyJ]

Carr is 2021 Mathew Stafford to me. A QB still in his prime being wasted by a garbage team that struggles to keep a coach for more than 2 years. Many teams would kill to have him. Washington would be one of them if there was any certainty on where the coaching staff is going in a year.

[CapsSkins]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

I think Turner is good with design, bad with implementation/calls.

 

I think he has too much cute stuff in it. But otherwise I think his offense works. He just hasn't figured out the feel for a game OR he's afraid of making playcalling mistakes. 

 

I’d rather bet on Turner improving as a play caller and giving Howell continuity in the system.

 

Keep Scott. Howell is the starter. Heinicke backs him up and helps him continue learning the system in the meeting room and on the practice field. Get another developmental guy for 3rd string (Fromm, a rookie, idk).

 

Use the money to re-sign Payne and fix O-Line.

[RandyHolt]

Kinda sucks knowing Howell is likely going to have to learn a new playbook but maybe the new guy brought in will have the same terminology of whatever it is that makes it easier to switch OCs.  I often say QBs unfairly take ALL the blame when they fail with nary a mention of 4 new playbooks in 5 years, ****ty OCs horrific line play etc. I am happy Scott is under the microscope. Fitz saying his playbook was complex is nothing to ignore. Heck Wentz looked lost most of the year.

 

Hopefully Howell can end solve our QB woes once and for all.  Bring a cheap vet backup and deal with it.

Edited January 10, 2023 by RandyHolt

[NickyJ]

If the overwhelming fan plan is that Ron and his crew are gone next year, I don't love the idea that Howell gets three OCs in three years. I'm frustrated by Scott, but I also have to acknowledge that he called a gameplan to win with Howell and got exactly what they wanted. It'll be hard to manage after the public trashing before the game, but a rotating doors of OCs isn't that great either.

Edited January 10, 2023 by NickyJ

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Comrade Wolf said:

Quick questions for y’all:

 

is there a chance that Scott Turners offense is very well designed but he himself is a horrible play caller as in he lacks the ability to understand the flow of the game? I’m curious if his philosophy actually works with multiple types of skill sets at quarterback but he himself can’t figure out how to make it work in a game setting? 
 

Secondly , if he was let go do we think anyone would want to take the OC job here knowing that the entire coaching staff would likely be unemployed this time next year? I’m torn on this, I want to see Howell play in the system he already knows instead of learning a new one for the 23 season and then likely learning a 3rd system in 24 🤷‍♂️. IMO , keeping Scott might actually assist in his development more than letting him go. 
 

Can you hire or promote someone to do the play calling that isn’t the OC? 
 

 

 

I think his wheel house is calling the run game, I locked into it one time in a live game and was impressed about the level of misdirection that fooled my eyes.

 

Like most offensive coordinators, he'd be much better with stout pass protection because like his dad he wants to go 5 step drop-go deep off of play action with the run game setting it up.  But without that element working, IMO he's predictable as to how he moves the ball on the 2nd level -- shallow crosser after shallow crosser (mesh routes) as Logan Paulsen likes to make fun of on third down.

 

Red zone I think he has a poor feel for both play design and rythmn.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise