The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

WTF!!!

 

Mark Bulluck is a legitimate guy. A serious guy. Not one of these internet jokers looking for attention any way they can get it.

 

He's got JJ at two!!??

 

I mean we all (with a few notable exceptions) don't seem to think this JJ hype is something that could actually affect us at two.

 

But now I'm starting to wonder if this is more than just a bunch of click bait on steroids.

 

Is it possible the majority of us are missing something here?

 

Could JJ McCarthy actually be the man most suited to helm our team, and we're just dismissing it as pure bunk?

 

Is the laugh on us?

 

 

Means nothing IMO.  For me, it doesn't matter which dude on the Internet likes who.  To quote Rivera its interesting but not important.

 

What's important for me is what does THIS team think about these QBs.    And I was interested in that for obvious reasons and as to that took a deep dive on this last week, sources that I trust seem to rally around the idea that this team isn't taking McCarthy at 2.  Maybe that changes but that's the strong impression I have now.

 

As for Bullock, he's a smart guy but another guy who doesn't per se major in getting QBs right.  In his defense no one does.  But I recall him going on and on about how Haskins is the real deal years back.  And as I mentioned this year he's been a yoyo.  He started with Daniels is the dude.  Switched to Maye is the dude. Now he's on that McCarthy is the dude.  

 

5 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

There was a time when he was one of my favorite day 3 QB picks last decade. Never made it, but credit to him for sticking in the league for so long, and even throwing a couple of hundred passes. 

 

Yeah irony for me Mariota was one of my fav backup QB for years until I soured on him the last 2 years.

Edited April 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

This is 4 scouts that McGinn talked to -- his longer deeper dive with more scouts happens closer to the draft

 

 

[Panninho]

Man, reading Justin Herbert scouting reports...I mean you could just exchange his name for Maye for most of that stuff:

 

4 of Herbert’s biggest flaws (and one that needs to be debunked)

Now come the issues, and there are plenty.

1. Anticipation/Instincts

This is the biggest concern by far. There are numerous examples where Herbert doesn’t pull the trigger when he should or his instincts kick in too late.

This one sticks out to me because it’s against Auburn in Week 1, a game Oregon should have won. There is a clear window here where Herbert needs to let it loose. He’s got the arm strength to let it fly.

There are more of these, and they can be glaring when it’s clear he sees a WR open but doesn’t pull the trigger right away.

2. Flat-out misses

Herbert just misses on a ton of throws. Here’s a good example from the Washington State game. The WR just sits in the zone and Herbert overshoots him. There’s nothing more to say. It’s not a good throw. Herbert needs to have more touch on some of these throws. Again, you can find many of these in the film.

3. Locks on to one read and doesn’t come off

There are times when Herbert locks on to a route before the snap, and he’s throwing there, even if someone else is open. Is this coaching? Is it Herbert? This is what scouts will need to find out.

4. Footwork issues

I don’t have film for this, so I will rely on Greg Cosell’s scouting report. He’s the best in the business and does a fantastic job of talking about all Herbert’s issues.

Even without film, it’s clear to see Herbert’s long frame sometimes leads to poor footwork in the pocket.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/4/16/21222904/justin-herbert-nfl-draft-2020-quarterback-strengths-weaknesses-film-oregon-chargers

 

 

WEAKNESSES

—Slow trigger and doesn’t always throw it when he sees it; holds the ball waiting for the open receiver. 

—Was largely a one-read thrower at Oregon.

—Regularly misses receivers high.

—Struggled against the best competition and did not recover well in games where he was pressured and hit.

—Fumbles are a major issue with 26 credited in three years.

—Gets heavy feet and paralyzed in the pocket when pressured, although some scouts believe the Oregon offense didn’t allow him to run. 

—Too conservative at times. Needs to trust his arm more.

Herbert was billed as a future QB1 after his amazing sophomore season, but he struggled as a junior in 2018 before rebounding with a good-but-not-great senior season. He was held back some by the scheme and talent around him at Oregon, but he also must learn to trust his traits more and be an aggressive thrower. Herbert has rare size and athleticism that could make him a Josh Allen-esque player, but he hasn’t used that ability to date. Unlocking it will be the key to his success in the NFL.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2883662-justin-herbert-nfl-draft-2020-scouting-report-for-los-angeles-chargers-pick

 

There was talk about him going in the second round. I feel like the league is doing it again to some degree with Maye. Hopefully we are not overthinking it.

[DWinzit]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Means nothing IMO.  For me, it doesn't matter which dude on the Internet likes who.  To quote Rivera its interesting but not important.

 

What's important for me is what does THIS team think about these QBs.    And I was interested in that for obvious reasons and as to that took a deep dive on this last week, sources that I trust seem to rally around the idea that this team isn't taking McCarthy at 2.  Maybe that changes but that's the strong impression I have now.

 

As for Bullock, he's a smart guy but another guy who doesn't per se major in getting QBs right.  In his defense no one does.  But I recall him going on and on about how Haskins is the real deal years back.  And as I mentioned this year he's been a yoyo.  He started with Daniels is the dude.  Switched to Maye is the dude. Now he's on that McCarthy is the dude.  

 

 

Yeah irony for me Mariota was one of my fav backup QB for years until I soured on him the last 2 years.

Wow, quoting the wise Rivera 

 

I agree with Mariota. Heck, he gives me less confidence than Brissett did last year. Wish we had resigned him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Wow, quoting the wise Rivera 

 

I agree with Mariota. Heck, he gives me less confidence than Brissett did last year. Wish we had resigned him. 

 

He wasn't bad with Tennessee in the framework of being good enough to be a good backup.  Look decent in spot duty with the Raiders afterwards.  but looked so meh with Atlanta afterwards.

[Panninho]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is 4 scouts that McGinn talked to -- his longer deeper dive with more scouts happens closer to the draft

 

Thanks for sharing this.

This sounds like hyperbole in every direction without any real nuances to the arguments. Don't know who the scouts are obviously and I cannot really judge McGinn but if that is the level of information he gets back - what is it really worth?

[Going Commando]

9 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

Thanks for sharing this.

This sounds like hyperbole in every direction without any real nuances to the arguments. Don't know who the scouts are obviously and I cannot really judge McGinn but if that is the level of information he gets back - what is it really worth?

 

Nothing.  McGinn is a gossip monger and his sources are usually idiotic and unprofessional.

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

Thanks for sharing this.

This sounds like hyperbole in every direction without any real nuances to the arguments. Don't know who the scouts are obviously and I cannot really judge McGinn but if that is the level of information he gets back - what is it really worth?

 

I know some hate his stuff especially @Going Commando.  Some like to read it.  So I post it.  Its not a full scouting report on these guys.  That's not the purpose.  The purpose is what do NFL scouts think of these players do they like them or not.  That effects the real draft much more so than if DJ or Brugler or Mark Bullock or name that person here or whomever likes the players.

 

These are scouts who actually work for teams not mock draft media.  These same guys will rank the players before the draft, McGinn will post the top 100 based on that, and they often CRUSH the mock drafters as to getting right what actually happens on draft day.   So I am befuddled that some don't want to hear it.  It's not like these guys get rebuked typically on draft day, they typically get vindicated. But again I know some are curious so I post it. 

 

Getting the top 100 right is why McGinn has gotten so much attention over the years.  If these were clown takes and Kiper and Matt Miller and name that mock drafter got it right over these guys, McGinn wouldn't be taken too seriously.  

 

I think what pisses some people off is there is usually one scout or so who doesn't like one of our favorite prospects and make that point colorfully so people get pissed at the negativity.  

 

I don't take it personally I look at it holisitcally because that's where these guys excel.  That is, they excel at getting it right over mock drafters.  The idea that there isn't full consensus on every player where every scout likes or dislikes a player in the exact same way doesn't give me any shock value. 

 

Rereading it, its just three scouts who work for teams.  Closer to the draft he goes with about 8.   This is the preliminary and the longer version closer to the draft gives a better feel.   At that point they hit some of the character concerns or injury stuff that hasn't always been made public. 

 

Some will hit back that their character concerns or scouts hits on these players are sometimes proven wrong when they hit the NFL.  Yeah of course.  If drafting was some exact science where the scouts subjectve takes are always vindicated, the draft would be much less of a crap shoot.  So that's not the point.  The point is what actually happens on draft day.

 

So on that count for now looking at it here.  They aren't as high on McCarthy.  At least these 3 aren't.   2 love Maye, 1 doesn't. 2 love Daniels. 1 doesn't.   Nothing radical.

Edited April 2 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know some hate his stuff especially @Going Commando.  Some like to read it.  So I post it.  Its not a full scouting report on these guys.  That's not the purpose.  The purpose is what do NFL scouts think of these players do they like them or not.  That effects the real draft much more so than if DJ or Brugler or Mark Bullock or name that person here or whomever likes the players.

 

These are scouts who actually work for teams not mock draft media.  These same guys will rank the players before the draft, McGinn will post the top 100 based on that, and they typically CRUSH the mock drafters and to getting right what actually happens on draft day.   So I am befuddled that some don't want to hear it.  It's not like these guys get rebuked typically on draft day, they typically get vindicated. But again I know some are curious so I post it.

 

Getting the top 100 right is why McGinn has gotten so much attention over the years.  If these were clown takes and Kiper and Matt Miller and name that mock drafter got it right over these guys, McGinn wouldn't be taken too seriously.  

 

I think what pisses some people off is there is usually one scout or so who doesn't like one of our favorite prospects and make that point colorfully so people get pissed at the negativity.  

 

I don't take it personally I look at it holisitcally because that's where these guys excel.  That is, they excel at getting it right over mock drafters.  The idea that there isn't full consensus on every player where every scout likes or dislikes a player in the exact same way doesn't give me any shock value. 

 

Rereading it, its just three scouts who work for teams.  Closer to the draft he goes with about 8.   This is the preliminary and the longer version closer to the draft gives a better feel.   

 

So on that count for now looking at it here.  They aren't as high on McCarthy.  At least these 3 aren't.   2 love Maye, 1 dosen't. 2 love Daniels. 1 doesn't.   Nothing radical.

One thinks Daniels could be a RB at 6'4" 200/210 lbs. Hope they are not Commander scouts. 

[Panninho]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know some hate his stuff especially @Going Commando.  Some like to read it.  So I post it.  Its not a full scouting report on these guys.  That's not the purpose.  The purpose is what do NFL scouts think of these players do they like them or not.  That effects the real draft much more so than if DJ or Brugler or Mark Bullock or name that person here or whomever likes the players.

 

These are scouts who actually work for teams not mock draft media.  These same guys will rank the players before the draft, McGinn will post the top 100 based on that, and they often CRUSH the mock drafters as to getting right what actually happens on draft day.   So I am befuddled that some don't want to hear it.  It's not like these guys get rebuked typically on draft day, they typically get vindicated. But again I know some are curious so I post it. 

 

Getting the top 100 right is why McGinn has gotten so much attention over the years.  If these were clown takes and Kiper and Matt Miller and name that mock drafter got it right over these guys, McGinn wouldn't be taken too seriously.  

 

I think what pisses some people off is there is usually one scout or so who doesn't like one of our favorite prospects and make that point colorfully so people get pissed at the negativity.  

 

I don't take it personally I look at it holisitcally because that's where these guys excel.  That is, they excel at getting it right over mock drafters.  The idea that there isn't full consensus on every player where every scout likes or dislikes a player in the exact same way doesn't give me any shock value. 

 

Rereading it, its just three scouts who work for teams.  Closer to the draft he goes with about 8.   This is the preliminary and the longer version closer to the draft gives a better feel.   At that point they hit some of the character concerns or injury stuff that hasn't always been made public. 

 

Some will hit back that their character concerns or scouts hits on these players are sometimes proven wrong when they hit the NFL.  Yeah of course.  If drafting was some exact science where the scouts subjectve takes are always vindicated, the draft would be much less of a crap shoot.  So that's not the point.  The point is what actually happens on draft day.

 

So on that count for now looking at it here.  They aren't as high on McCarthy.  At least these 3 aren't.   2 love Maye, 1 doesn't. 2 love Daniels. 1 doesn't.   Nothing radical.

 

I get what it is. It just doesn't look to me like there is a lot of meaningful content in this specific piece of content. JD 1) is like Lamar as a runner but has a better throwing motion 2) is the closest thing to Mahomes but might be better because he is a better athlete and he could play running back 3) should not be drafted in round 1.

 

Just looking at this JD stuff, I cannot believe that anyone here shares their true belief about him. I mean potentially better than Lamar (2xMVP) and might be better than Mahomes (on the way to become the greates ever) and then the third guy says they would not draft him in the first. Even if you love or hate the guy, that sounds like something someone would say walking by and not something someone would say truthfully in a trusted environment.

Maybe I am wrong and they really believe that but I personally would not trust anyone who communicates in such hyperboles.

 

This was in no way meant as a slight against you. Like I said, thanks for sharing. I like to digest everything when it comes to the draft. Was just commenting on the value of the shared content by McGinn - who I also said I cannot really judge (thanks for adding some context here).

Edited April 2 by Panninho

[BurgundyBooger]

Leadership is a big deal to this regime, and I suspect they'll want to measure the leadership capabilities of these QBs. Maybe they'll look past certain physical deficiencies if the QB more than makes up for it with leadership skills. While virtually all QBs are naturally shoehorned as leaders for their teams, do we know which of the QB finalists have that particular attribute nailed down?

[CommanderInTheRye]

Wentz gets possibly one last chance under qb guru Andy Reid...

 

XXX

 

The Chiefs signed quarterback Carson Wentz to a one-year deal, Jordan Schultz of the Bleacher Report reports.

 

Wentz will backup Patrick Mahomes, with Chris Oladokun and Ian Book the other quarterbacks on the roster.

 

Wentz, 31, spent last season with the Rams and played two games with one start. He completed 70.8 percent of his passes for 163 yards with two touchdowns and an interception in 2023.

 

The Chiefs will be his fifth team in five years.

 

The Eagles made Wentz the second overall pick in 2016, and he spent five seasons with the team. He then went to the Colts and Commanders before landing in Los Angeles last season.

[Warhead36]

17 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

Leadership is a big deal to this regime, and I suspect they'll want to measure the leadership capabilities of these QBs. Maybe they'll look past certain physical deficiencies if the QB more than makes up for it with leadership skills. While virtually all QBs are naturally shoehorned as leaders for their teams, do we know which of the QB finalists have that particular attribute nailed down?

They all appear to be strong in leadership. 
 

Fwiw, Maye even split NIL deals with his teammates

 

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/drake-maye-north-carolina-tar-heels-football-nil-campaign-mitchell-heating-cooling-chapel-hill/

 

[TheBigJourney]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Getting the top 100 right is why McGinn has gotten so much attention over the years.  If these were clown takes and Kiper and Matt Miller and name that mock drafter got it right over these guys, McGinn wouldn't be taken too seriously.  

That’s an excellent argument of why you shouldn’t take him seriously

[CommanderInTheRye]

27 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

Leadership is a big deal to this regime, and I suspect they'll want to measure the leadership capabilities of these QBs. Maybe they'll look past certain physical deficiencies if the QB more than makes up for it with leadership skills. While virtually all QBs are naturally shoehorned as leaders for their teams, do we know which of the QB finalists have that particular attribute nailed down?

 

"...do we know which of the QB finalists have that particular attribute nailed down?"

 

Truthfully, none of us do, but I like the question, so I'll give it a shot.

 

Based solely on my gut, and admitedly with little to know real validity this is my idiosyncratic subjective ranking of the top qbs by leadership ability....

 

1. JJ McCarthy

2. Michael Penix

3. Drake Maye

4. Jayden Daniels

5. Caleb Williams

 

EDIT:

I think all of them are above average leaders, so my rankings are relative to each other, and those at the bottom are still better leaders than your typical college qb.

 

Edited April 2 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

Good pro Maye insight here from Albert Breer

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Panninho said:

 

I get what it is. It just doesn't look to me like there is a lot of meaningful content in this specific piece of content. JD 1) is like Lamar as a runner but has a better throwing motion 2) is the closest thing to Mahomes but might be better because he is a better athlete and he could play running back 3) should not be drafted in round 1.

 

Just looking at this JD stuff, I cannot believe that anyone here shares their true belief about him. I mean potentially better than Lamar (2xMVP) and might be better than Mahomes (on the way to become the greates ever) and then the third guy says they would not draft him in the first. Even if you love or hate the guy, that sounds like something someone would say walking by and not something someone would say truthfully in a trusted environment.

Maybe I am wrong and they really believe that but I personally would not trust anyone who communicates in such hyperboles.

 

This was in no way meant as a slight against you. Like I said, thanks for sharing. I like to digest everything when it comes to the draft. Was just commenting on the value of the shared content by McGinn - who I also said I cannot really judge (thanks for adding some context here).

 

As for their specific comments.  It tends to be hyperbolic.  Plus McGinn I bet doesn't use all of if so he cherry picks and I'd guess the more loud positive or negative comments.

 

But the reason why I take it seriously, when you find these guys are higher or lower than the typical mock drafter, it more often comes to light versus not on draft day.

 

Who these guys are higher on or lower on tends to matter much more than name that random mock drafter.  

[mistertim]

54 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

Leadership is a big deal to this regime, and I suspect they'll want to measure the leadership capabilities of these QBs. Maybe they'll look past certain physical deficiencies if the QB more than makes up for it with leadership skills. While virtually all QBs are naturally shoehorned as leaders for their teams, do we know which of the QB finalists have that particular attribute nailed down?

 

I think it all depends on what type of leadership you're looking for. With regards to Maye vs Daniels, they're reportedly very different. Maye is apparently much more extroverted and outspoken and a "rah rah" type of leader, and Daniels is apparently more introverted/quiet and not as vocal but more of a "lead by example" guy. Both are very highly regarded by their teammates.

[Warhead36]

There is no way to measure leadership. Its one of those empty buzzword traits like moxie or poise. 

[Skinsinparadise]

on another note, caught Keim's latest podcast.  Not much.

 

A.  Interviewed Matt Miller who is a big Daniels over Maye guy.

 

B.  Keim doubled down when he asks sources around the league about the 2 QBs, Daniels has the clear edge.  

 

C.  He doesn't think McCarthy goes #2.  

Edited April 2 by Skinsinparadise

[ntotoro]

Daniels has a clear gift... that is for certain. Call me still punch drunk from RG3, but I don't see how he can make it an entire season without being in-traction at the NFL level. There are certain things you cannot change and his physique is one of them. He doesn't seem to have the hubris of RG3, but all the dedication, determination and discipline in the universe do little good if you're body is fusilli tied together with dental floss.

[CommanderInTheRye]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

B.  Keim doubled down when he asks sources around the league about the 2 QBs, Daniels has the clear edge.

 

Just a point of clarification.

 

Was Keim saying  his league sources believe that Daniels is favored generally by most teams over Maye, or is he saying his sources believe Daniels has the edge to be selected specifically by the Commanders?

[BurgundyBooger]

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There is no way to measure leadership. Its one of those empty buzzword traits like moxie or poise. 

 

Sure there is, by combining performance with feedback from their superiors (in this case, coaches), colleagues, and peers.

[TheBigJourney]

7 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

Just a point of clarification.

 

Was Keim saying  his league sources believe that Daniels is favored generally by most teams over Maye, or is he saying his sources believe Daniels has the edge to be selected specifically by the Commanders?

Just listen to the actual podcast instead of someone paraphrasing without context

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, TheBigJourney said:

Just listen to the actual podcast instead of someone paraphrasing without context

 

I don't think his question was unreasonable. No need go to all "RTFM" on him.

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 minutes ago, TheBigJourney said:

Just listen to the actual podcast instead of someone paraphrasing without context

 

I appreciate your kind suggestion, however I will make my own judgement of the behaviors I feel are reasonable or unnecessarily rude.

 

I suspect we have very different values on those metrics.