All things defense

[Wyvern]

I thought I would pose this question to my fellow ES'ers -- at least to offer up an alternative topic to the raging debate on which QB prospect Washington should draft and/or if they should trade up to #1 to guarantee their first choice.

 

My question:  It looks like Washington will be moving to a base 3-4 defense.  Currently Washington has15 players on the depth chart listed at the DT's/DE's position and only 6 as LB'ers. It seems to me like Washington's 2023 defense was staffed more for a 4-3 or 5-2 alignment, and may need to retool the personnel to better fit Whitt's goals for the front seven.

 

I know teams no longer stick solely to a 4-3 or 3-4 defense and do use lots of variations such as the 5-2 alignment, etc. However, it seemed to me that some of the '2023 Commanders' squad of starting linebackers weren't that great -- and a definite component of the weakness of Washington's defense last year.  But, considering all of Washington's other needs (QB, O-line, TE, and maybe DBs and replacement WRs) how do you think Washington should try to remake their front seven? In addition to already being thin at linebacker, the team traded away their two starting DEs who were often tasked with duties similar to the OLBs in a 3-4.  There also seems to be a glut on DTs on the depth chart.  And considering the performance of the defense last year -- it might be tempting to make some big changes here.

 

So what do you see as the approach here? 

 

    == > Can one assume that all that's needed is better coaching for current line-backing crew to be decent, or do you feel some replacements need to be found, or new talent brought in for better depth?

 

   ==> Which current personnel of the defensive front four might be capable of supplementing the OLB ranks, or does new talent need to be brought in? 

 

   ==>  If new players are needed, are there some  good candidates to acquire by free agency or by trade?  Any good targets to acquire via the draft?

 

I just wanted to offer up some topics for discussion related to Washington's defense.  It would be great to hear your views and opinions on the matter and any suggestions on who else Washington might need to bring in to help.  (Come to think of it, there's also the matter of D-line coaches and Linebacker coaches - who do you think might be retained or who do you think Washington should consider for new coaching talent to bring in?)

Edited February 11 by Wyvern

[RandyHolt]

Note on San Frans fateful 3rd down OT pass, that KC blitzed and Shanny was forced to kick the FG. Spags had 7 on the LOS and brought 6. I sure hope our new DC isn't afraid to blitz with the game on the line. RichardTATE instead of coaching afraid, as we have seen here for 2 decades our DC pushing all in on 8 DBs who often seem to be running around confused in zone coverage.

 

 

Edited February 12 by RandyHolt

[Veretax]

On 1/19/2024 at 7:42 PM, SkinsFTW said:

Nobody posted in here after the final game so here are the stats.

 

This team had the 32nd ranked defense for points giving up 518 which is 30.4 per game.

 

The next worst team was AZ giving up 26.7 per game.

 

So not only was this defense pathetic. It was 4 points worse than the 2nd worst. \

 

That is historically bad more than likely. 

 

The Broncos gave up 70 in a game but still ended up giving up 105 less total. 

 That is over 6 points better per game so they ended up at 24. 

I wanted to underscore and buttress this by saying, not only where we bad, we were historically bad, and all anyone wants to reference is the record sacks that Howell took (not the franchise altogether)

How bad was the defense?  I posted this in part of the thread I started earlier, but its relevant here:

 

We were DEAD last in total team defense giving up an obscene 6,612 yards to or opponents. and what's telling is only 3 other teams had to play more offensive plays on Defense.

We were also next to dead last in yards per play (5.9, to cincy's 6.0, denvers, 5.8, and Zona's 5.7, even the Hapless Giants were better than us with 5.6 yards per play.
Seattle with 1147, and Indy with 1137 (we were 1117)

 

We were the Tenth worse in takeways with a yawning, 18, tied with Phily, Green Bay, and New England  (Zona, KC, Atlanta, LA Rams, Titans, and Panthers all had fewer, the panthers only had 11. just wow) The point is, hardly one turnover a game.

 

We were 13th in Fumbles lost with 10.  

 

We were third in 1st Downs allowed and could not get off the field with 364 Only ahed of Arizona and Seattle, (369/380)

 

We were 7th in Completions allowed with 396 with only Jax, Tampa, Chicago, 49ers, Eagles, and Vikings allowing more. I was a bit surprised Eagles, and 49ers were higher than us on this one)

 

We were dead last in Passing yards allowed with 4457, nearly a 150 above the Eagles !.  

 

We were dead last in passing TDs allowed with 39 (4 more than Philly!)

 

And I had thought our Rushing D was actually decent, I was wrong, we were 6th worse giving up 2155 yards. (only the packers (2181), Giants (2251), Broncos (2331), Seahawks (2352), Cards (2434) had more.

 

We were 11th worse in Rushing TDs given up with 11.

pro football reference's advanced team defense has us as 7th worst in Total Air Yards per completion with 2424, 2197 YAC allowed (8th worst), and we were 6th wors in hurries with 34, 1 better than Dallas astonishingly.  7th worst in Team sacks with 39.  

I could go on and on on the stats:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/opp.htm#all_team_stats

Not just historically bad, franchise, historically, historically bad... not just in the bad for the history of the franchise, but among the worst historically in the Super Bowl Era.

 

 

[oraphus]

25 minutes ago, Veretax said:

I wanted to underscore and buttress this by saying, not only where we bad, we were historically bad, and all anyone wants to reference is the record sacks that Howell took (not the franchise altogether)

How bad was the defense?  I posted this in part of the thread I started earlier, but its relevant here:

 

We were DEAD last in total team defense giving up an obscene 6,612 yards to or opponents. and what's telling is only 3 other teams had to play more offensive plays on Defense.

We were also next to dead last in yards per play (5.9, to cincy's 6.0, denvers, 5.8, and Zona's 5.7, even the Hapless Giants were better than us with 5.6 yards per play.
Seattle with 1147, and Indy with 1137 (we were 1117)

 

We were the Tenth worse in takeways with a yawning, 18, tied with Phily, Green Bay, and New England  (Zona, KC, Atlanta, LA Rams, Titans, and Panthers all had fewer, the panthers only had 11. just wow) The point is, hardly one turnover a game.

 

We were 13th in Fumbles lost with 10.  

 

We were third in 1st Downs allowed and could not get off the field with 364 Only ahed of Arizona and Seattle, (369/380)

 

We were 7th in Completions allowed with 396 with only Jax, Tampa, Chicago, 49ers, Eagles, and Vikings allowing more. I was a bit surprised Eagles, and 49ers were higher than us on this one)

 

We were dead last in Passing yards allowed with 4457, nearly a 150 above the Eagles !.  

 

We were dead last in passing TDs allowed with 39 (4 more than Philly!)

 

And I had thought our Rushing D was actually decent, I was wrong, we were 6th worse giving up 2155 yards. (only the packers (2181), Giants (2251), Broncos (2331), Seahawks (2352), Cards (2434) had more.

 

We were 11th worse in Rushing TDs given up with 11.

pro football reference's advanced team defense has us as 7th worst in Total Air Yards per completion with 2424, 2197 YAC allowed (8th worst), and we were 6th wors in hurries with 34, 1 better than Dallas astonishingly.  7th worst in Team sacks with 39.  

I could go on and on on the stats:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/opp.htm#all_team_stats

Not just historically bad, franchise, historically, historically bad... not just in the bad for the history of the franchise, but among the worst historically in the Super Bowl Era.

 

 

yeah but....... our culture was awesome.. someone send me a superbowl ring!

[RandyHolt]

Another blitz from Spags at a critical time of the game. 1st down here ends the game.

 

 

[kingdaddy]

Welcome Ken Norton Jr!

[RandyHolt]

Welcome Gif

[Veretax]

17 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Another blitz from Spags at a critical time of the game. 1st down here ends the game.

 

 

I have never been a fan of 5 WR in critical green zone 3rd downs.  Too easy to mess up the timing by sending just 1 more guy unexpectedly from a direciton you don't know about.

If you ask me that's on Kyle's play design/call.

[RandyHolt]

11 minutes ago, Veretax said:

I have never been a fan of 5 WR in critical green zone 3rd downs.  Too easy to mess up the timing by sending just 1 more guy unexpectedly from a direciton you don't know about.

If you ask me that's on Kyle's play design/call.

Fair enough. Kyle seems the darling of the league yet we see he's not perfect. I heard Jeff Mans pointing out that Brock was doing great yet Kyle didn't trust him enough to go for the jugular and ultimately left KC and Mahomes in position to win. Including not using timeouts at the end of the first half.

Kyle choke label trending

Edited February 13 by RandyHolt

[Warhead36]

They should have ran some kind of draw or screen to McCaffery. If you're close you can go for it on 4th down, but at the very least you kill more clock.

 

Kyle effed up there.

[RandyHolt]

I think on the passing plays Kyle ****ed up by not targeting his best hands. Aiyuk and CMC. Deebo was clearly injured and playing through it. Kittle was tied up in blocking duties.

 

Those 2 critical 3rd and 4 plays Aiyuk was wide open in both despite facing a stud corner. Kyle game planned Jennings to be MVP I suppose.

Edited February 13 by RandyHolt

[Est.1974]

Well Joe Whitt set the tone right.

 

We need some smart, intelligent footballers on D

Pass rush. Find a Parsons-lite.

Fast, aggressive, violent.

DB who can catch. No place for stone hands DBs. 
 

The ball in LIFE.

 

Edited February 16 by Est.1974

[Warhead36]

Dude will be a HC next year when Forbes grabs 8 picks and our D ends up finishing top 10.

[DWinzit]

Whitt's going to make Davis, Quan and maybe Henry household names!

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

Whitt's going to make Davis, Quan and maybe Henry household names!

I'm expecting a true big breakout year from Davis. If I'm GMAP I try to resign him on the cheap now, because he's gonna blow up and get a big deal next year. Maybe we exercise his 5th year for insurance purposes but I'm not sure how much that'd cost.

[RandyHolt]

I can't be the only one burned before hearing our new DC say they are going to attack and be aggressive.  Basically, bend don't break which is more like read react and get run over.

 

Like with every other DC, I'll believe him this time because he is doing more than stressing turnovers. He used the word violent. I approve.

Edited February 16 by RandyHolt

[kingdaddy]

On 2/16/2024 at 8:55 AM, DWinzit said:

Whitt's going to make Davis, Quan and maybe Henry household names!

I like how you think.....but I'd really like to see Whitt make Da'Ron and Allen the most feared tandem of defensive tackles in the league. I wanna see consistent pressure like the Rams with Aaron Donald and the Browns with Garrett. 

[Ball Security]

Jamin Davis plead guilty. Got six months in jail which was all suspended. Has to do community service, but the uncertainty is no longer hanging over him.

[UK Skins]

We do the same thing here but I've never understood suspended sentences. So don't kill someone for six months and you won't go to jail. I can't remember the specifics of his case but we genuinely do that here for killers. Absolute nonsense.

[Ball Security]

Peters is giving Quinn guys to build his defense. This is probably the best the front six have looked (on paper) in the past five seasons. Going to love to see what he does with Luvu and Davis.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Peters is giving Quinn guys to build his defense. This is probably the best the front six have looked (on paper) in the past five seasons. Going to love to see what he does with Luvu and Davis.

 

For stuffing the run, yeah. For pass rushing, maybe not. I think it puts a lot of pressure on Davis/Luvu to carry more of the pass rushing load. Ferrell is also run stuff and no pass rush. Armstrong's pass rush is mostly seeing how the pocket is unfolding for the QB to maneuver and then moving to intercept.

 

If there are Edge's in the 2nd round with legit pass rush potential, it'll be hard to say no. (Chop Robinson)

[Command The 414]

And to think we haven’t even addressed the back end yet, weather or not that’s resigning Curl or bringing someone else in which I think is going to happen, this defense talent wise and coaching wise should be/is adherently better imho

Edited March 12 by Command The 414

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, Command The 414 said:

And to think we haven’t even addressed the back end yet, weather or not that’s resigning Curl or bringing someone else in which I think is going to happen, this defense talent wise and coaching wise should be/is adherently better imho

My guess is we look for pass rushers and CBs in the draft. Good depth in the middle rounds for em.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

This defense is gonna be sooooooooo good! Darrell who? Monte who? Wilbur who? Charles who? Those fellers are gonna be watching and taking notes from Luvu, Armstrong, Fowler, Chinn, Davis, Forbes, and etc!!! Woot woot.

[Ball Security]

Ferrell, Allen, Payne, Armstrong, Henry, Ridgeway, Mathis, Fowler, Jones Jr (9)

Wagner, Luvu, Davis (3)

Forbes, St Juste, Martin, Chinn, Forest, Butler, Reaves (7)

 

Those look like the mostly safe guys (I know we have some others like Holmes under contract). That’s 19 of the 25 defensive slots. The secondary needs some help, but it sure looks like the draft will be heavy on offense.