2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

Hamilton has been considered a top 5 prospect at worst for two years, so if we draft him it's a win. Weird that I've been yelling about drafting a safety in the first for years, now that we might draft the best safety to come out in 10 years I don't wanna. Watching these high power offenses in the playoffs, I couldn't stop thinking about what would happen if the other team had a weapon x in their backfield.

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I agree on Cine and noticed on some of his great hits that was left pretty free due to the talent that surrounded him. 

 

Joseph has really turned my head recently, I don't think I gave his coverage and movement skills enough credit earlier on as he has such limited experience. 

When I do comps I don’t do them based on who they play exactly like. I do that sometimes… but I like to do them based on who I think about when I watch a guy play. 
 

Joseph film makes me think of Antoine Winfield Jr

[method man]

To Keim’s point, he believes they think that the OL isn’t quite as good as the PFF rating implies. They feel limited about what they can do with some of their personnel. I think Lucas and Schweitzer are two examples of guys with PFF ratings that overrate the level of olayer they are 

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, method man said:

To Keim’s point, he believes they think that the OL isn’t quite as good as the PFF rating implies. They feel limited about what they can do with some of their personnel. I think Lucas and Schweitzer are two examples of guys with PFF ratings that overrate the level of olayer they are 

I don't care what they think. We saw a **** QB with all day to throw and we saw us run the ball however we wanted to do it and that was using our 9th Olineman.

 

I'd have liked to keep Flowers and Scherff is great, even though I wouldn't pay him either, but our Oline is fantastic and now we have a QB built like a LBer that loves to push it.

[Warhead36]

22 minutes ago, method man said:

To Keim’s point, he believes they think that the OL isn’t quite as good as the PFF rating implies. They feel limited about what they can do with some of their personnel. I think Lucas and Schweitzer are two examples of guys with PFF ratings that overrate the level of olayer they are 

I don't think any of the OL were individually fantastic except maybe Scherff, but the whole was greater than the sum of its parts, the depth is solid(though has taken a hit now with Scherff and Flowers gone)and the coaching appears to be fantastic.

 

The truth is you can get by with an OL that just has a bunch of decent guys on it. Its more important not to have gaping holes that the opposing D can take advantage of.

 

I think with Leno and Cosmi were good at T and Roullier is an above average C. I am worried about our Gs a bit though, which is why I think we'll address that position in the 4 round or later(or 3rd if we manage to get one back in a trade).

Edited April 24, 2022 by Warhead36

[Chump Bailey]

I am getting excited about Wentz's potential in this offense with his ability to go downfield. I have to admit CW was about my least favorite option because of the drama but fully support him now. I am somewhat perplexed about not pursuing Justin Fields though. I would have from day one.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Chump Bailey said:

I am getting excited about Wentz's potential in this offense with his ability to go downfield. I have to admit CW was about my least favorite option because of the drama but fully support him now. I am somewhat perplexed about not pursuing Justin Fields though. I would have from day one.

I was never a big fan of Fields. His ability to read defenses and process information is super slow. He was actually pretty bad last year, but admittedly does have a lot of talent and upside.

 

Personally I'm glad we didn't trade up for him. It would suck not having the 11th pick this year and having our future attached to a QB that looked so mediocre(at best)his rookie year in an era when young QBs come in and ball out from day one.

[Skinsinparadise]

52 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Hamilton has been considered a top 5 prospect at worst for two years, so if we draft him it's a win. Weird that I've been yelling about drafting a safety in the first for years, now that we might draft the best safety to come out in 10 years I don't wanna. Watching these high power offenses in the playoffs, I couldn't stop thinking about what would happen if the other team had a weapon x in their backfield.

 

Yeah I've been rallying almost to the same extent for years.  Was obsessive about Minkah and Derwin before that draft.  Ironically we get the safety closest to Derwin coming out in this draft albiet IMO in some ways they are different and i am not pounding the table for Hamilton.  But I sort of am.  He's not my top want at 11.  But he's in my hardcore top 4 players that I'd want there.  And judging by the comments on this thread, I'd be one of the more jazzed people here compared to others if we took him.  He'd be a lot of fun to have in the fold.

 

For reasons I've stated a lot lately, he IMO would make a dramatic difference to this defense.  And the buffalo nickel point is over played.  Landon Collins at this stage of his career is pretty much just that.  Hamilton would be that and a starting safety on this team likely displacing McCain.  Smart player.  Talented. It would be a great pick.  Sticking to safety talk....

 

Just watched another Cine game after reading the posts here about some being less enthused about watching him beyond the Alabama game.  The thing is for example in the Clemson game, they had him play deep for a good part of that game, did well in that role, but you didn't have those tone setting hits the same way like you did in the Alabama game where he was leveling Brian Robinson but that IMO because the nature of how they used him.  His versatility is his charm.

 

As you can see below he played deep a ton.  So making big plays in the box you aren't always going to see that in a major way from him in some games because they keep him back in coverage.  Someone here suggested he's overrated because the other defenders in George made him look better -- to each their own but IMO I don't think so.  If anything with the front 7 Georgia had, why not keep Cine playing deep against pass happy teams?  Cine's athletism is great as is his do it all ability IMO.

 

 

 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2022-nfl-draft-defensive-package-cornerback-safety

Lewis Cine is a personal favorite, in production and play style. There’s a dearth of enforcer-type safeties in football, and while Cine may not look the part, his contact stops all forward progress from ball carriers. He can extend his ability as a tackler and coverage defender to the perimeter or deep down the field, but in this exercise, he’s ideally cast as a “dime backer,” spending the majority of his time in the box.

Across 124 career run-defense snaps in the box, he missed only one tackle and received a positive grade on 10% of those snaps. His tackling abilities extend beyond the run game, with no misses in coverage on his 194 snaps as a box defender. If Cine needed to push out into the slot, he can handle the job, recording a 79.2 passer rating allowed and no touchdowns. He flies around the field with reckless abandon and has enough of a refined skill set to be utilized in whatever role is necessary, from the box out to the sidelines.

 

 

MOST VERSATILE: LEWIS CINE, GEORGIA

Over his career, Cine has been asked to wear a lot of hats in Georgia’s defense, and he’s worn them admirably time and time again. This past season, he took 155 snaps from the box, 118 from the slot and 534 deep. For his career, Cine has earned above-average grades from all three alignments.

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

I was never a big fan of Fields. His ability to read defenses and process information is super slow. He was actually pretty bad last year, but admittedly does have a lot of talent and upside.

 

Personally I'm glad we didn't trade up for him. It would suck not having the 11th pick this year and having our future attached to a QB that looked so mediocre(at best)his rookie year in an era when young QBs come in and ball out from day one.

 

Yeah, these are likely valid criticisms though I do not know enough to truly weigh in on that aspect but his character, leadership ability, arm and mobility are A ++ traits and his potential is IMO through the roof.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I've been rallying almost to the same extent for years.  Was obsessive about Minkah and Derwin before that draft.  Ironically we get the safety closest to Derwin coming out in this draft albiet IMO in some ways they are different and i am not pounding the table for Hamilton.  But I sort of am.  He's not my top want at 11.  But he's in my hardcore top 4 players that I'd want there.  And judging by the comments on this thread, I'd be one of the more jazzed people here compared to others if we took him.  He'd be a lot of fun to have in the fold.

 

For reasons I've stated a lot lately, he IMO would make a dramatic difference to this defense.  And the buffalo nickel point is over played.  Landon Collins at this stage of his career is pretty much just that.  Hamilton would be that and a starting safety on this team likely displacing McCain.  Smart player.  Talented. It would be a great pick.  Sticking to safety talk....

 

Just watched another Cine game after reading the posts here about some being less enthused about watching him beyond the Alabama game.  The thing is for example in the Clemson game, they had him play deep for a good part of that game, did well in that role, but you didn't have those tone setting hits the same way like you did in the Alabama game where he was leveling Brian Robinson but that IMO because the nature of how they used him.  His versatility is his charm.

 

As you can see below he played deep a ton.  So making big plays in the box you aren't always going to see that in a major way from him in some games because they keep him back in coverage.  Someone here suggested he's overrated because the other defenders in George made him look better -- to each their own but IMO I don't think so.  If anything with the front 7 Georgia had, why not keep Cine playing deep against pass happy teams?  Cine's athletism is great as is his do it all ability IMO.

 

 

 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2022-nfl-draft-defensive-package-cornerback-safety

Lewis Cine is a personal favorite, in production and play style. There’s a dearth of enforcer-type safeties in football, and while Cine may not look the part, his contact stops all forward progress from ball carriers. He can extend his ability as a tackler and coverage defender to the perimeter or deep down the field, but in this exercise, he’s ideally cast as a “dime backer,” spending the majority of his time in the box.

Across 124 career run-defense snaps in the box, he missed only one tackle and received a positive grade on 10% of those snaps. His tackling abilities extend beyond the run game, with no misses in coverage on his 194 snaps as a box defender. If Cine needed to push out into the slot, he can handle the job, recording a 79.2 passer rating allowed and no touchdowns. He flies around the field with reckless abandon and has enough of a refined skill set to be utilized in whatever role is necessary, from the box out to the sidelines.

 

 

MOST VERSATILE: LEWIS CINE, GEORGIA

Over his career, Cine has been asked to wear a lot of hats in Georgia’s defense, and he’s worn them admirably time and time again. This past season, he took 155 snaps from the box, 118 from the slot and 534 deep. For his career, Cine has earned above-average grades from all three alignments.

 

Weird right? I've basically been the safety guy for years and years around here and now I'm indifferent. 

 

I've been harsh on the Georgia defensive players and don't love Dean at all, but Cine I'm really high on. He's a smaller speed guy, but that works for the NFL trends right now, better than Hamilton.

 

I'm still really high on Lloyd as my second choice behind trading back, but I'll live with Hamilton.

[Burgold]

I think part of the WR question has to be based on recovery. There is an argument to be made that if they recover (or make a normal progression) McClaurin, Samuels, Thomas, Brown, McKissic, and Gibson are a good group with dangerous speed. The problem is, we have no idea how Samuels will do with us, how Thomas will recover, and if Brown can become an NFL deep threat.

 

If we capitalize on all these ifs we have a dangerous group. The likelihood of them all working out though seems sketchy, but I dunno. A receiving room of McClaurin, Samuels, Brown, Simms, and Milne really ain't bad. I do imagine with better QBing and better health (plus a year's experience for the rookies), this group can bring it. Now, adding another killer is always a good thing, but if we stand pat and get our safety and linebacker settled I wouldn't hate it.

[Koolblue13]

We have plenty of WRs and we've addressed it just fine. We need them healthy, but that's a different story. 

 

I like the fit for Olave, but none of the other guys going 1rst round make any sense. We aren't drafting a WR in the 1rst. 

 

I like our FO and I think they'll be smart enough that if they want a big slot, they'll take a borderline TE/WR in the 7th and not someone like London or Burks at 11.

 

If you have a clear cut WR1 already that you're about to lock up long term, WTF would you use pick #11 to draft a WR1? 

[Ball Security]

35 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I was never a big fan of Fields. His ability to read defenses and process information is super slow. He was actually pretty bad last year, but admittedly does have a lot of talent and upside.

 

Personally I'm glad we didn't trade up for him. It would suck not having the 11th pick this year and having our future attached to a QB that looked so mediocre(at best)his rookie year in an era when young QBs come in and ball out from day one.

In addition to that, our 2022 draft capital is a 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 7th instead of a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, and two 7ths.  No Darrick Forest or Jamin Davis either.  That’s just if we give up what Chicago did.  The Giants likely makes us pay an in division tax.  We would have to pay much more to go into the top 10.  You do get about $24M in extra cap though in 2022.

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Weird right? I've basically been the safety guy for years and years around here and now I'm indifferent. 

 

I've been harsh on the Georgia defensive players and don't love Dean at all, but Cine I'm really high on. He's a smaller speed guy, but that works for the NFL trends right now, better than Hamilton.

 

I'm still really high on Lloyd as my second choice behind trading back, but I'll live with Hamilton.

 

What's your hesitation for Hamilton?  For me I've heard enough so I am pretty sure they aren't taking Lloyd.  So for me its stacked against the attraction of trading down and getting a player like Cine and Walker or name that later first-early 2nd round WR or stacked against taking Drake London at 11 who I think would be the perfect weapon for Wentz. 

 

I am sort of in between @KDawg and @Going Commando's take about the WRs but closer to @KDawg's take in that I agree with him, offense, offense, offense.  Load up for Wentz. They put the chips on him so make it work.  I'd add that all the relentless slamming Wentz has gotten around the league this year with the Colts dumping him after one year might make him press a bit too much.  Some who know him say that's one of his issues is pressing too much when the pressure is hot.  So on that end, make his roster stacked on offense.

 

Also, the last time we had a stacked roster on offense was 2016.  And if I recall that offense was ranked #3 in the league.   For the most part ever since, we've been playing medium on offense when some of the better teams in the NFL have been going high octane.  Teams like the 49ers continue to load up on offense.  Rams too.  KC.  Modern NFL.  I am tired of hey maybe this is the year Cam Sims blossoms. And if this works and that works, then watch out.  We got a high octane QB who can throw the ball down the field so lets give him the best of the best engine to hit the high gears versus make due and hope to get lucky. 

 

I get nauseated with the narrative sometimes I hear from the local media of hey wait to Curtis is healthy.  And we got hopes that Dyami develops.  And hopefully Logan Thomas is healthy to start the season.  On and on.  IMO don't leave this stuff to chance.  Yeah if every one of our fondest hopes comes true the offense will be wonderful.  But when does that ever happen?  Stack up on offense.  Last year was a good start as to making some moves on offense even if they didn't work out the effort was there and they got unlucky with Samuel.  But, if there is no follow through on it then "meh" IMO.

 

So as for Hamilton, its purely for me about stacking up the offense. But in a vaccum, I think he'd be almost the perfect addition for this defense.  I think Ron's obsession with the Buffalo nickel might be somewhat predicated on what this defense has struggled with in recent years.  That is, stopping pass catching RBs and WRs in the flat on screens.  Heck even Fournette who isn't much of a pass catcher, tormented them on that front in the playoff game.  And in spite of having a good D line this team has been runned on successfully when teams play 11 personnel and we match that with a nickel defender -- until this season.   Some put that all on the LBs.  But the nickel defender was clearly part of that problem.   And Collins arguably helped solve that. 

 

I don't think its a coincidence that this year for a change the defense was good against the run, and the defenses' emergence coincided with Collins playing the big nickel.  We've been better of late versus tight ends but traditionally not so much.  The Eagles like to run the ball a lot, the Giants too when Barkley is cooking, ditto Dallas.  Having a guy like Hamilton is perfect for that.  And he's good in coverage IMO especially on the 2nd level. 

 

Projecting this draft, I suspect the top 12 receivers or so might be gone before 47.  Trading up 5 spots I think was a sly move by Chris Ballard at our expense.  I think it might just take us out of range of Walker and Breece (not that the Colts are going RB), it might take us out of range of someone like Cine.  Maybe someone like C. Watson too who I gather I like more than most on the board or Skyy Moore.   My point is I am not so convinced we get a hot WR at 47 or either of the top 2 RBs. 

 

Where I am closer to @Going Commando's view is while I am not on the same page that the mid 2nd round is likely fertile ground for a WR.  No way to know for sure but I can see it not going our way on that front.  I do agree if they can trade down, that 2nd tier group of Wrs intrigue me. I think at a minimum the top half of that 2nd tier is likely gone by 47 but if we trade down some in the first, I am intrigued. The key for me is to pick up a 2nd rounder.  I am not obsessed with regaining our 3nd rounder but if we can trade down ala 2011 where we picked up a 2nd rounder from trading down if I recall then from 10 to 17, I am intrigued. 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We have plenty of WRs and we've addressed it just fine. We need them healthy, but that's a different story. 

 

I like the fit for Olave, but none of the other guys going 1rst round make any sense. We aren't drafting a WR in the 1rst. 

 

I like our FO and I think they'll be smart enough that if they want a big slot, they'll take a borderline TE/WR in the 7th and not someone like London or Burks at 11.

 

If you have a clear cut WR1 already that you're about to lock up long term, WTF would you use pick #11 to draft a WR1? 

Fine isnt good enough in todays NFL for offense. If Curtis is hurt again than we have just terry and a bunch of JAGs. If Terry gets hurt were in a world of trouble. Its inexplicable that WR isnt the most glaring need. 

[Mrshadow008]

Ran a couple of three round mocks With what I think are more realistic trade back options. Thoughts? 

[Zim489]

I just cant famthom going defense for the 6th straight season in an offense driven league. Its inexplicable to me.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Fine isnt good enough in todays NFL for offense. If Curtis is hurt again than we have just terry and a bunch of JAGs. If Terry gets hurt were in a world of trouble. Its inexplicable that WR isnt the most glaring need. 

Yes, if everyone gets hurt, we won't be as good. That's a great point. Thank you.

[CommanderCarson]

22 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think part of the WR question has to be based on recovery. There is an argument to be made that if they recover (or make a normal progression) McClaurin, Samuels, Thomas, Brown, McKissic, and Gibson are a good group with dangerous speed. The problem is, we have no idea how Samuels will do with us, how Thomas will recover, and if Brown can become an NFL deep threat.

 

If we capitalize on all these ifs we have a dangerous group. The likelihood of them all working out though seems sketchy, but I dunno. A receiving room of McClaurin, Samuels, Brown, Simms, and Milne really ain't bad. I do imagine with better QBing and better health (plus a year's experience for the rookies), this group can bring it. Now, adding another killer is always a good thing, but if we stand pat and get our safety and linebacker settled I wouldn't hate it.

I agree with a lot of this and I think that’s why they may lean Hamilton over London.

 

I also think one of the best things we could do is draft a Walker/Hall at 47 as opposed to a WR. I think it would be a huge force multiplier for the offense, allowing Gibson to shift into more of a hybrid and receiving role. Having a true bell cow and dependable running game to go along with terry and then multiple shifty and versatile short and intermediate options with Gibson, McK, Samuels, Thomas and Bates would not be easy to stop.

 

Im all aboard the Hamilton and then Hall/Walker if available train. If not I’d like Watson/Moore. I hope one of those 4 are there. 

[Koolblue13]

Sip, I just typed out a wall of text, sneezed and lost it. Sorry.

[RWJ]

With only a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th and 2 7ths, it's going to be interesting to see who they select and at what positions.  Still on the trade down train, 1st and foremost.  

Edited April 24, 2022 by RWJ

[Ball Security]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Sip, I just typed out a wall of text, sneezed and lost it. Sorry.

God bless you.

[RWJ]

6 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

On balance I’d agree. I’m finding it difficult to justify sticking at #11 in particular when a trade back from #11 will enable us to get excellent prospects for WR2, RB1, LB, S and also another position of your choice before the third round closes out. 

There is no other way we can get the players that RR has mentioned in his interviews as of late.  We HAVE to trade down.  If not one time in the 1st round not to far to get the player they want (Olave) as RR seems to be impressed by both Wilson and Olave but then a trade down again in the 2nd/3rd to get Carson Strong if he checks out medically.  He wants to draft another QB.  So many positions and too little draft picks at this time.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I know it become mostly an uncool position to have but lol sorry upon rewatching the WRs some I am back on the Watson train.  i was on it for awhile around the combine time but then lost some interest as I watched other receivers.  But now that I go back, he will end up in my top 5. 

 

I get the knock, 10% drop rate (by the way its not miles higher than other prospects we love here, Wilson for example has an 8% drop rate) and hey people are overevaluating him because he rans fast in shorts, etc.  For me I am over that.

 

He has almost 25 YPC.  One of the highest YAC rates among these receivers.   He's 6 '4 and has a vertical just short of 39, that's sick. A perfect RAS.  These guys arent a dime a dozen. 

 

He's certainly raw, not the smooth route runner that Olave is for example, a bit clunky in some of his cuts/stems. But he's certainly not like Anthony Schwartz level raw.   Watching him on handoffs out of the backfield, he takes off like hell on wheels -- watching him just run by dudes on go routes-corner routes -- he's doing it all at a different speed and like Jameson Williams he hits that 2nd gear so fast.   He's a decent run blocker.  He is super smart dude -- highest Wonderlic score among these WRs and by a good margin so i gather he can learn an NFL offense well. 

 

Dudes that shine at the Senior Bowl and come off better than expected, often later on show that meant something.  Terry was one of those dudes.  Some argued with me at the time Terry is just fast but otherwise what does he have cooking?   Watson like Terry has some good intangibles.  Watching him on GMF last week he actually reminded me some of Terry, came off real smart and articulate. 

 

I'll take my chances and throw my dice on Watson and I'll take some wrath here for doing it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Sip, I just typed out a wall of text, sneezed and lost it. Sorry.

 

Damn, to make up for that, now I expect an essay in response to my sell of Christian Watson. 😀

Edited April 24, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know it become mostly an uncool position to have but lol sorry upon rewatching the WRs some I am back on the Watson train.  i was on it for awhile around the combine time but then lost some interest as I watched other receivers.  But now that I go back, he will end up in my top 5. 

 

I get the knock, 10% drop rate (by the way its not miles higher than other prospects we love here, Wilson for example has an 8% drop rate) and hey people are overevaluating him because he rans fast in shorts, etc.  For me I am over that.

 

He has almost 25 YPC.  One of the highest YAC rates among these receivers.   He's 6 '4 and has a vertical just short of 39, that's sick. A perfect RAS.  These guys arent a dime a dozen. 

 

He's certainly raw, not the smooth route runner that Olave is for example, a bit clunky is some of his cuts/stems. But he's certainly not like Anthony Schwartz level raw.   Watching him on handoffs out of the backfield, he takes off like hell on wheels -- watching him just run by dudes on go routes-corner routes -- he's doing it all at a different speed and like Jameson Williams he hits that 2nd gear so fast.   He's a decent run blocker.  He is super smart dude -- highest Wonderlic score among these WRs and by a good margin so i gather he can learn an NFL offense well. 

 

Dudes that shine at the Senior Bowl and come off better than expected, often later on show that meant something.  Terry was one of those dudes.  Some argued with me at the time Terry is just fast but otherwise what does he have cooking?   Watson like Terry has some good intangibles.  Watching him on GMF last week he actually reminded me some of Terry, came off real smart and articulate. 

 

I'll take my chances and throw my dice on Watson and I'll take some wrath here for doing it.  

 

 

The vibe I'm getting you seems to be Hamilton at #11 and Watson at #47 if both are there.  Is this correct?