2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I like Harris as a second round target if we go WR in the first.  How much separation do you have between Harris and Dean?  

I have Dean 4th, actually. But it’s damn close 2-3-4. 
 

Dean isn’t “sexy”. He is a high motor, downhill player but when you watch him I don’t get this, “aw **** yeah man!” Reaction to him. 
 

I really like him, though. So I know some will see I have him 4th and think I dislike him or don’t think he’s going to be good. Dean is going to be a really, really good player in the league. 
 

I see more aggressive playmaking upside in Harris and Brandon Smith. 
 

So if I’m talking value I think the best value of the group with be Smith. He can be had later. Followed by Harris. I think Dean is the steady guy who is going to quietly notch 100 tackles a year though. 
 

I don’t know if that explains it. But ya.

Sometimes I think doing two board and averaging them out would be a good idea.

 

Smith is a bigger risk than Dean. Dean is safer than anyone. Maybe even including Lloyd. Lloyd’s versatility and playmaking is unmatched at LB though. 

[Fresh8686]

 

 

[mhd24]

42 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

Dang, that means Atlanta or the Jets take Williams?

[actorguy1]

Two things:

 

1. As for Hamilton, I am always hearing, "You can't pin him down to one particular position and expect to him to flourish. He's a wild card like Simmons and it will take a very creative DC to play him in multiple positions per game to get the most out of him." Is Del Rio that DC?

 

2. I am super excited for a RB bell cow to be drafted. However, past seasons have taught me that RB's who can pass block get on the field much faster than RB's who need to learn how. I really want a RB who can already pass block and get him playing right away in Training Camp. Am I making too big of a deal of this?

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Ty Fryfogle, WR, Indiana. There's a few receivers that can be put here but most of them are talked about more often. I'm the only one that I've seen talking about Fryfogle. I think he is a solid possession guy. Not going to wow you or separate deep for too many big plays but he has a very good catch radius and can act as a large target who times his jumps well and runs good routes. He breaks tackles, too, so he is a YAC threat. But he's not a burner so he's not likely to leave defenders in their wake. 

What round do you see Fryfogle going..and do you think he has a similar skill set to London but clearly a notch or two down...

[actorguy1]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

What round do you see Fryfogle going..and do you think he has a similar skill set to London but clearly a notch or two down...

I keep hearing 6th round to UDFA on Fryfogle. Very much a sleeper.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

Dang, that means Atlanta or the Jets take Williams?

Hope so. I’d love Wilson to fall. He’s the clear #1 WR to me. Think the Giants will get one of the receivers top 10 though.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

What round do you see Fryfogle going..and do you think he has a similar skill set to London but clearly a notch or two down...

6-7th round. 
 

Kind of. Not as athletic or as quick twitch. 

[Zim489]

6 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

1. As for Hamilton, I am always hearing, "You can't pin him down to one particular position and expect to him to flourish. He's a wild card like Simmons and it will take a very creative DC to play him in multiple positions per game to get the most out of him." Is Del Rio that DC?

Thats another problem for me. I would just love for my first round pick to just be tossed out there and play with out having to scheme for him. 

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Two things:

 

1. As for Hamilton, I am always hearing, "You can't pin him down to one particular position and expect to him to flourish. He's a wild card like Simmons and it will take a very creative DC to play him in multiple positions per game to get the most out of him." Is Del Rio that DC?

 

2. I am super excited for a RB bell cow to be drafted. However, past seasons have taught me that RB's who can pass block get on the field much faster than RB's who need to learn how. I really want a RB who can already pass block and get him playing right away in Training Camp. Am I making too big of a deal of this?

1. I don’t agree he’s positionless.

 

2. Maybe. A good coach can scheme around it if necessary. But I’m really liking Hall equally for different reasons than Walker. Either one would be fantastic.

[RWJ]

37 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Hope so. I’d love Wilson to fall. He’s the clear #1 WR to me. Think the Giants will get one of the receivers top 10 though.

I like Wilson better than Olave as a #1 WR.  My only concern is what is Terry saying to RR and Co. about Olave since they are close and what kind of influence will it have on RR picking between the two.  Olave's good and at #11 I'm Wilson all day rather than Olave at #14 - 20.  The reason I say #14 is if we do a small tradedown because I think either Saints will be all over him or the Pack may try and trade up.   

31 minutes ago, KDawg said:

1. I don’t agree he’s positionless.

 

2. Maybe. A good coach can scheme around it if necessary. But I’m really liking Hall equally for different reasons than Walker. Either one would be fantastic.

Hall reminds me of Faulk when he runs.  His speed and quickness are amazing when you watch him on the field run.  He has another gear.  Love Walker too as he is more of a bruiser when running but has enough speed but to me, Hall is special with his extra gear, spin moves, and he has deceptive power too in some of the runs I've watched.  Anyway you shake it out, we will need to either trade down and get an extra pick in the 2nd to draft one of them or use our only 2nd rounder to get one of them as I think only one will still be on the board when we select at #47.  It's possible both might be gone.  Hard to say.  

[Est.1974]

21 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I like Wilson better than Olave as a #1 WR.  My only concern is what is Terry saying to RR and Co. about Olave since they are close and what kind of influence will it have on RR picking between the two.  Olave's good and at #11 I'm Wilson all day rather than Olave at #14 - 20.  The reason I say #14 is if we do a small tradedown because I think either Saints will be all over him or the Pack may try and trade up. 

I like Wilson way more than Olave. I think Wilson likely goes top 10. Not sure on the Alabama receiver with either ACL recovery. London doesn’t excite me at all.

 

Im probably just fixated on getting more picks. Do we have one glaring need? With getting Wentz I’m not sure we do, the key being we extend Mclaurin. 
 

Looks like a group of players that make us a whole way better in the top 75. We just haven’t got the means to get them right now.

 

That said, if we stay at 11 and 47 we should get two immediate impact players. Getting Wentz takes the edge of that pressure. Looking forward to an interesting few days.

[method man]

Another poster pointed this out but one of the ways you need to use the first round is to fill expensive positions on rookie deals. That is why taking a safety or buffalo nickel at #11, no matter how good he is, would be dumb. Marcus Williams, I believe, is now the highest paid safety at a $15M AAV. He is the cream if the crop at the position

 

On the other hand, you are seeing 1b/strong #2 WRs getting paid just shy of $20M a year. 
 

Even if you think Kyle Hamilton is going to be an All Pro safety, if you believe London or Wilson or Williams will at least hit that low end #1 WR/high end #2 WR level, you take the #2 WR.

 

Also notice that the centerfielder FS types are the ones getting paid at the position, the SS/in the box types typically do not crack $10M AAVs (Collins and Adams being exceptions). 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, method man said:

Another poster pointed this out but one of the ways you need to use the first round is to fill expensive positions on rookie deals. That is why taking a safety or buffalo nickel at #11, no matter how good he is, would be dumb. Marcus Williams, I believe, is now the highest paid safety at a $15M AAV. He is the cream if the crop at the position

 

On the other hand, you are seeing 1b/strong #2 WRs getting paid just shy of $20M a year. 
 

Even if you think Kyle Hamilton is going to be an All Pro safety, if you believe London or Wilson or Williams will at least hit that low end #1 WR/high end #2 WR level, you take the #2 WR.

 

Also notice that the centerfielder FS types are the ones getting paid at the position, the SS/in the box types typically do not crack $10M AAVs (Collins and Adams being exceptions). 

That’s certainly working against Hamilton. Must do with LBs too, Lloyd say...

 

Teams are gonna load up with Edge/DL and OL top 10. Get the odd premier outlier like Sauce and Wilson probably, after that it’s trade back all the way...

[KDawg]

I am more and more on the wide receiver at 11 train. The new reports on Williams mean he’s a lock to go 10 if it’s true. That could mean both Wilson and London are there for us.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I am more and more on the wide receiver at 11 train. The new reports on Williams mean he’s a lock to go 10 if it’s true. That could mean both Wilson and London are there for us.

 

I was listening to Matt Miller just now, he thinks 7-8 WRs go in the first round which he said would be a record.  He's not the only one projecting that -- they think part of the logic is just by coincidence there are a lot of WR needy teams this year, more than normal. 

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was listening to Matt Miller just now, he thinks 7-8 WRs go in the first round which he said would be a record.  He's not the only one projecting that -- they think part of the logic is just by coincidence there are a lot of WR needy teams this year, more than normal. 

Yeah that’s looking likely. With a WR1 already in house with Mclaurin that’s some pile of talent dropping down the board in other positions....but we do need another receiver in our group for sure....Rivera sure seems keen to surround Wentz, wonder if a future Collins return / or a Honey Badger move in May could facilitate early draft focus on offense.

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was listening to Matt Miller just now, he thinks 7-8 WRs go in the first round which he said would be a record.  He's not the only one projecting that -- they think part of the logic is just by coincidence there are a lot of WR needy teams this year, more than normal. 

I think that’s entirely possible. At minimum I think Williams, Wilson, London, Olave are off the board top 16. Then guys like Metchie are in play. I can see the League being high on him. Maybe Burks despite the weight issues. Someone gave Toney a shot I wouldn’t be surprised if Pickens get a shot. And for the upside Watson is probably gone. That’s 8. And I could see a surprise.

[RWJ]

49 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I like Wilson way more than Olave. I think Wilson likely goes top 10. Not sure on the Alabama receiver with either ACL recovery. London doesn’t excite me at all.

 

Im probably just fixated on getting more picks. Do we have one glaring need? With getting Wentz I’m not sure we do, the key being we extend Mclaurin. 
 

Looks like a group of players that make us a whole way better in the top 75. We just haven’t got the means to get them right now.

 

That said, if we stay at 11 and 47 we should get two immediate impact players. Getting Wentz takes the edge of that pressure. Looking forward to an interesting few days.

So if Wilson is gone before #11, who would you like to see us draft at #11 and #47 if we stay put.  Myself, I've been saying a trade down is needed to fill holes and give us more depth.  If RR and Co. do pick at #11 and #47, who would you like to see us pick with those picks? 

[skinsfan93]

4 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Why won't Atlanta take Hamilton?  They need help EVERYWHERE.  If they aren't going QB, why not take Hamilton at 8 and go with QB/skill/DL with their multiple 2nd rounders and early 3rd?

Atlanta doesn’t have any wideouts. Ridley is suspended and their only skilled player is Patterson and Pitts. I think they take Wilson. 

[Going Commando]

Wide receivers are mercenaries, never franchise cornerstones.  And virtually every dominant receiver in the NFL becomes available at some point, and some of them are available every offseason.  That's not true for the true franchise cornerstones at other positions.  When is the last time a dominant receiver didn't change teams during his second or third contract?  Right now it's just Cooper Kupp and Michael Thomas.  Thomas has been hurt for two years and has no value to influence the market, and Kupp is coming up on his contentious contract negotiation next offseason.  Every other great receiver of the past ten years has had their relationship with their first franchise turn to **** and jumped ship on them at some point.

 

Hoping to get the next Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson is the outdated method of teambuilding.  Those days are largely over, and the only early first round WRs worth picking are the ultra-special ones like Devonta Smith and Jamarr Chase, and none of the guys in this year's class can touch them.  For better value you draft day 2 and early day 3 guys and negotiate early if they show promise by year three, and/or you trade for one of these mercenary superstars when you're making an honest to God SB run, not when you're trying to break through a nine game ceiling for the first time in ten years.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think that’s entirely possible. At minimum I think Williams, Wilson, London, Olave are off the board top 16. Then guys like Metchie are in play. I can see the League being high on him. Maybe Burks despite the weight issues. Someone gave Toney a shot I wouldn’t be surprised if Pickens get a shot. And for the upside Watson is probably gone. That’s 8. And I could see a surprise.

 

I'd be shocked if Metchie goes in the first round, I've seen no rumor or talk of that but I guess stranger things have happened.  Plenty believe Dotson creeps into the first round.  Some think Watson, personally I think Watson goes mid 2nd around our pick, ditto Metchie. Some think Skyy Moore albeit most think he goes early 2nd. Some think George Pickens who I am not as high on as the mock draft community. 

 

As for the league, judging by McGinn's scouts, which are personnel guys around the league ranking players, and his top 100 tends to be super accurate for that reason as for matching what happens on draft day versus the board -- in that range the scouts has Burks #5, Dotson #6, Moore #7, Metchie #8, Pickens #9, Pierce #10.

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Wide receivers are mercenaries, never franchise cornerstones.  And virtually every dominant receiver in the NFL becomes available at some point, and some of them are available every offseason.  That's not true for the true franchise cornerstones at other positions.  When is the last time a dominant receiver didn't change teams during his second or third contract?  Right now it's just Cooper Kupp and Michael Thomas.  Thomas has been hurt for two years and has no value to influence the market, and Kupp is coming up on his contentious contract negotiation next offseason.  Every other great receiver of the past ten years has had their relationship with their first franchise turn to **** and jumped ship on them at some point.

 

Hoping to get the next Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson is the outdated method of teambuilding.  Those days are largely over, and the only early first round WRs worth picking are the ultra-special ones like Devonta Smith and Jamarr Chase, and none of the guys in this year's class can touch them.  For better value you draft day 2 and early day 3 guys and negotiate early if they show promise by year three, and/or you trade for one of these mercenary superstars when you're making an honest to God SB run, not when you're trying to break through a nine game ceiling for the first time in ten years.

I disagree here. By that logic you should only ever draft OT, Edge and QB in the first. 
 

And this is an odd stance considering you want Linderbaum in the first.

[method man]

19 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Wide receivers are mercenaries, never franchise cornerstones.  And virtually every dominant receiver in the NFL becomes available at some point, and some of them are available every offseason.  That's not true for the true franchise cornerstones at other positions.  When is the last time a dominant receiver didn't change teams during his second or third contract?  Right now it's just Cooper Kupp and Michael Thomas.  Thomas has been hurt for two years and has no value to influence the market, and Kupp is coming up on his contentious contract negotiation next offseason.  Every other great receiver of the past ten years has had their relationship with their first franchise turn to **** and jumped ship on them at some point.

 

Hoping to get the next Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson is the outdated method of teambuilding.  Those days are largely over, and the only early first round WRs worth picking are the ultra-special ones like Devonta Smith and Jamarr Chase, and none of the guys in this year's class can touch them.  For better value you draft day 2 and early day 3 guys and negotiate early if they show promise by year three, and/or you trade for one of these mercenary superstars when you're making an honest to God SB run, not when you're trying to break through a nine game ceiling for the first time in ten years.

 

Santana Moss was a franchise cornerstone here for us for close to a decade

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

That’s certainly working against Hamilton. Must do with LBs too, Lloyd say...

 

Teams are gonna load up with Edge/DL and OL top 10. Get the odd premier outlier like Sauce and Wilson probably, after that it’s trade back all the way...

 

Yep. To your point, there are 5 positions where folks are cracking the $20M AAV barrier: QB, EDGE, WR, LT and CB. These positions need to have material priority for any team picking top 15 and they do as the majority of top 15 picks are these 5 positions

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I disagree here. By that logic you should only ever draft OT, Edge and QB in the first. 
 

And this is an odd stance considering you want Linderbaum in the first.

 

At 11 I want a franchise cornerstone, regardless of position.  I don't agree that the only positions where they come from are OT, Edge, and QB, though I would grant that most of the game-changing great players in the NFL are DLs and QBs.  But it could be a DB or linebacker or IOL too.  Even a TE or a WR or RB could be one if they are truly special.

 

Franchise cornerstones are almost never a WR any more, and the proof is in how all of the best ones in the league change teams now.  That said, position/need don't really move me and I would be fine with drafting a WR at 11 if there were a Smith/Chase caliber prospect in the group who was truly worthy of going this high.  There isn't.  Jameson Williams probably comes the closest to being that level of special, but he is so flawed that I can't embrace him whole-heartedly even if he wasn't seriously injured.  He's just not as good as the top defensive players and OLs in this year's class.

 

I don't think being high on Linderbaum is a contradiction at all.  IMO he's got a better chance of spending 10 years on his draft team and being a franchise cornerstone for them than any of the WRs.  TBH, if I had to bet something really valuable on one guy from this class becoming an All-Pro and cornerstone for his franchise that spends 10+ excellent years there, I'd pick him.  He is special in a way that none of this year's WRs are.  So are Davis, Lloyd, and Hamilton.  I can not accept a reach for a WR with those guys on the board based on an argument that WR is either a big need for the team or that it is a crucially valuable position with lineman/QB type value.  For one thing, I don't think either of those arguments are true, nor do I think it's justifiable to reach for players even if both arguments were true.