2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[method man]

I think by the time all is said and done, Corral will be top 5 and we shouldn’t trade up for him.

 

I’d rather trade the pick + more for Carr

[Ball Security]

16 minutes ago, method man said:

I think by the time all is said and done, Corral will be top 5 and we shouldn’t trade up for him.

 

I’d rather trade the pick + more for Carr

I believe that, with Gruden gone, LV is less likely to move Carr.

[The Consigliere]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:27 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

....That was, they liked 2 QBs in this draft (the thought was Fields was one of them) but didn't love them to the extent where they'd have traded the moon for that QB.  But the interest was real.  If Fields dropped to the mid teens according to some they would have pounced.  It's not that they loved what they had in house at QB but they didn't think they were at a place with the roster where they could mortgage major draft capital.   Rivera talked about this multiple times this off season saying he wanted a more loaded roster before making an aggressive move like that in the draft. 

 

As for Mac Jones, I don't recall if it was Keim or someone else who said they'd have likely taken him at 19 but they didn't love him to the extent they were willing to trade up.  There wasn't a ton of smoke around Mac Jones one way or another so on that point I am not confident on. 

 

Mike Silver who is supposedly the closest to Ron Rivera and broke the Rivera hire before it became public wrote a long article about the process.  And he actually wrote it specfically for the team's web site.  But even if that didn't happen, Rivera multiple times in interviews this summer was pretty forthcoming on what they were thinking in the draft and yep QB was on their mind but they want said QB to fall closer to their pick.  

 

https://www.washingtonfootball.com/news/washington-football-ron-rivera-explains-signing-ryan-fitzpatrick

 

Then, heading into the draft, Rivera thought hard about trading up to acquire a quarterback. Ultimately, he balked at the price, instead staying put and selecting Kentucky linebacker Jamin Davis with the 19th overall pick.

Faith in Fitzpatrick's abilities was one reason Rivera, general manager Martin Mayhew and executive vice president of football/player personnel Marty Hurney ultimately felt comfortable staying away from the bright, shiny objects. There was also a foundational philosophy at play.

Intent on building the team from front to back -- a process validated by the strong line play that fueled Washington's second-half surge, surprising NFC East title (albeit with a 7-9 record) and stirring playoff performance against the eventual Super Bowl champion Buccaneers in his first season -- Rivera resisted the quick fix.

 

 

It's wild to see a piece like this, so rich in detail, and see how it's clearly a "Forest for the trees" scenario where they've got so many things down, but they've ignored the #1 rule above all else. 

 

You don't have a QB? Everything else you've done is totally irrelevant. You can build the meanest DL in the league, the meanest OL in the league, but if you're rolling out a 400 year old QB whose played on 8 or 9 teams, or a guy whose 31st in the league at PFF, and never drawn interest from anyone, I guess for a reason, everything you built is totally and utterly irrelevant. They just didn't get it. They didn't want to trade up, and give up a core building block, but they didn't realize that if they didn't have a QB, and they didn't, they'd built nothing, in reality. Nothing at all.

 

It was all utterly pointless. They got Davis, BFD, they could have gotten an impressive LB a full round later that was rated higher than Davis by many in JOK. They didn't want to give up core pieces and picks to build up, and tear out some foundation, but there's no foundation at all if there's no QB.

 

I can get that you want a few things in place, because in truth, you do need a few, other ways you end up with a David Carr situation with a shell shocked bust.

 

You need an OL (we have one). 

 

You need quality QB coach and quality OC. 

 

You need stability. 

 

Beyond that, everything else is window dressing, yes its true, WR's and RB's are necessary, a TE too etc, but none of it is gonna kill you so long as you've got stability and talent at coaching, and an OL. If you've got that, you've got what you need for your new QB, if you don't, you still have to take the QB, but understand that you probably want to let a stop gap get battered until you have a better OL, or better coach so the player doesn't get Carr'd or Tannehilled. 

 

It's so wild. I know some may take it as pomposity, but how do coaches still not understand this in 2021? Part of it may be he's a defense guy, but I'd still expect defense guys to get it, but otoh, he took an Edge and an LB over a franchise QB in two strong franchise QB drafts. That speaks to a level of cluelessness mixed in with the details he often does so well, a bit of the dinosaur in place. Maybe just spoiled at never having to think about QB because he had Newton. Well now he sure as hell needs to, because even w/all those top draft picks invested in the front four, the defense doesn't matter (and isn't performing anyway) and that good to great OL is blocking for nobody and so we aren't scoring. 

 

Not likely to be fixed soon either, these QB's all look like projects, and w/much greater bust risk than the '17, '18, '20 and '21 guys. What a shame. All that DL talent is gonna be squandered. Needless to say I would've traded Young in a move up for Fields without a second thought, and Mac Jones, who I was more skeptical of, was worth trading anything up for as it turns out and certainly the vastly cheaper price it would've been to simply move up 2-3 picks. Now we're just screwed, as per usual, three decades and now into 4 (starting from '93. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by The Consigliere

[The Consigliere]

On 10/6/2021 at 6:19 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think the Stafford pursuit was very real.  I was referring just to the draft prospects.  It wouldn't have taken a crazy haul to get Fields or Jones or Mills/Mond/Trask but they clearly weren't very interested in any of them, or else they'd have pulled that trigger.  Our need couldn't have been more powerful than it was last offseason.  And they certainly could have picked Tua or Herbert, but I don't think they were interested in them.  That was a fairly different FO group that was still heavily reliant on Kyle Smith, the draft came up very early in the process of revamping the FO, and they probably just wanted to get through it making the safest choices possible.

 

I don't think Rivera is as much of a straight shooter as you think he is though.  Especially not about QBs or war room debates.  I definitely think he tells some stories and he's got some politician in him, but he has the remarkable gift of always seeming quietly sincere when he speaks.

 

They played it safe at QB and it might have worked out because Heinicke has played so well and saved our season (so far).  If he keeps his level of play up, then their instincts to just build the periphery and see what we have with our extant QBs  (plus Fitz) will have been dead on.

 

It's kind of funny that you round it out with "they played it safe at QB". To my mind there was nothing, NOTHING, less safe, than doing what they did at QB. It was utterly asinine. I can't say for certain we could move up for Fields, but Mac Jones was definitely getable, and as it turns out, a whole giant pile of teams were incredibly idiotic about Fields, and he fell 8 or 9 slots lower than he should have, and they sure as hell had a much better chance at him in April, then I had assumed they'd have in January-February when everyone everywhere fully expected Lawrence and FIelds to go top two. 

 

It's absolutely astonishing to me that we made no effort. It would've been interesting to see what we would've done if Alex Smith hadn't save the season and sabotaged the pick, and we'd ended up with a back end top 10 pick. Would we have been clinically insane and passed on Fields, and Jones for defensive help? I'd like to think the answer to that is no, but it wouldn't shock me if it was yes, and boy, that would've been 1000% my walking papers as a redskins fan. I'd be 1000% done. At least I have the face saving that they didn't have access to either QB at 16, even though they were morons for not trading up. But my God, if they were as stupid as Denver and Carolina? Good Lord (at least Denver had the working rumor that they were going hard for Rodgers). 

[philibusters]

I actually agree with how Rivera handled things this past offseason in regards to a QB. I agree that finding a franchise QB is crucial to consistent long term success.  That said you don't want to mortgage the future on somebody who turns out to be meh.   That is what happened in 2012.  It produced one fun season.    I am fine with Rivera being patient.  I would rather him feel confident when he makes a move than have him make a move when he is unsure if he is overpaying.

[The Consigliere]

On 10/9/2021 at 7:26 AM, Riggo'sRangers said:

What's killing me is that the frigging Cows draft much better than we do. Yeah, it sucks that they are probably better on BOTH sides of the ball now due to drafting wisely & well. I DESPISE admitting that, but it is sure how it looks, at this point. Our top 3 defense is nonexistent. The BS talk by members of the D about setting the sack record was just that, talk. The one who never talks **** like that, J Allen, has been far and away our best defensive player. They really got a bit full of themselves after our misleading division title last year. This is when you begin to find out what you have & they better get busy, quickly. Sorry for the rant. 

 

Parson's definitely at least seemed like a "mine". If anything about the Penn State story is true w/regards to him, he should be in jail, that kind of thing tends to be sticky with a player. Nobody anywhere doubted Parsons a top 3-5 talent in that draft, at worst 6-10, it was the mental make up that made him borderline undraftable. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

It's wild to see a piece like this, so rich in detail, and see how it's clearly a "Forest for the trees" scenario where they've got so many things down, but they've ignored the #1 rule above all else. 

 

 

Listening to Ron, Silver and others talk about it, this is how it added up to me.  I am adding some of my own conclusions to a small extent based on what was said.

 

A. The realize that they needed a QB last off season.  But hated the idea of giving up the farm yet to get one.

B.  They loved Stafford, swung hard for him and missed.

C.  They didn't love Darnold or other trade possibilities as for reclamation projects.  They toyed with Watson (pre-scandal) and considered Rodgers and Wilson but those FOs didn't have these guys seriously on the market.

D.  They liked Fields a lot but not to the extent they'd trade the store for him.  If he dropped close to their pick they would have made a move because it wouldn't have cost them their 2022 first rounder which they were determined to keep.

E.  They liked Mac Jones but didn't love him.  They would have taken him at 19 but they weren't going to trade up for him

 

They figured if Fitz was decent and their defense killer they can win some games and set up the roster for the kill in 2022.  If Fitz exceeded expectations they could ride him again worse case if a good QB opportunity doesn't arise but in all likelihood they expected to be aggressive in 2022.

 

Now, they are in an interesting spot.  I got no doubt they see the QB spot as code red and will go swinging for it.  they got enough cap room to perhaps fill the gaps in FA at other spots while using draft picks to either chase one in the draft or use it as capital to trade for one.

 

Unlike some others here, i do think they "get it" so to speak as for this is the off season to address it.  I actually have some faith they might actually be good at getting the right guy.  the reason being if all that information is right, they had the right targets, the problem was they didn't pull the trigger.  Now they arguably have to pull the trigger so I expect a real interesting off season. 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Now, they are in an interesting spot.  I got no doubt they see the QB spot as code red and will go swinging for it.  they got enough cap room to perhaps fill the gaps in FA at other spots while using draft picks to either chase one in the draft or use it as capital to trade for one.

 

Unlike some others here, i do think they "get it" so to speak as for this is the off season to address it.  I actually have some faith they might actually be good at getting the right guy.  the reason being if all that information is right, they had the right targets, the problem was they didn't pull the trigger.  Now they arguably have to pull the trigger so I expect a real interesting off season. 

Rivera’s comment recently about last season essentially raising expectations too much is pretty telling. My take is that he knew we were not ready for a rookie QB last offseason. So in turn they hung off going up in the draft. We never tried for Stafford really. Fitz was a well priced placeholder, in theory.

 

Problem is that we have regressed this season. Badly. Plus, having been all in on Rivera so far, I’m slightly dismayed at the path this season has taken. He’s not leading us like he should be. Feels like trouble is ahead, he looks ground down to me.

 

As for free agency, we are continuing to make ourselves less desirable by the year. Money  would talk once over, now several teams can always outbid us.

 

We are in a tough spot. I could see us going all in for a QB this draft out of desperation on several levels. At that stage it is a complete guess as to the level of success that would bring. Hard to see it going well.
 

Maybe the next 3 months will change my perspective. I would like to think it would, looks highly unlikely right now in my opinion.

[The Consigliere]

On 10/11/2021 at 8:11 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

Watching more of London's cutups, he's got a problem with concentration drops.  I've counted five in just three games.  He makes ridiculously impressive circus catches through contact, but he lets too many easy ones fly through his hands.  Part of that is the absolutely insane amount of targets he sees, but it's the turd in the punchbowl with him as a prospect.  He draws a ton of penalties though, and he'll get even more calls in the NFL because of how college refs give up and let puny DBs drape all over dominant receivers.

 

As odd as it is to say, w/only rare exceptions, drops aren't a sticky stat. I'd ignore it unless you see it across years and years of film like Will Fuller. 

[philibusters]

I think people are overreacting to the first 6 games.    If the defense was as advertised in the offseason, we are probably 4-2 right even with Heinicke at QB.  It hasn't been the offense that is the issue.  You put Matthew Stafford on this team and we have a decent shot at 4-2 now, but again, you give us the same QB play and better secondary play and we are 4-2.  Its a 17 game season.  I think Rivera is a decent coach.  Things don't look good now but I think this team finishes around 7-10.  At some point we'll start playing better and put together a 2 or 3 game win streak.

 

 

[method man]

6 hours ago, Ball Security said:

I believe that, with Gruden gone, LV is less likely to move Carr.

 

Definitely more likely. Gruden and Carr were super close. Depending on who they bring aboard as their coach, they may want someone different from Carr

[philibusters]

7 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Definitely more likely. Gruden and Carr were super close. Depending on who they bring aboard as their coach, they may want someone different from Carr

 

As you say, I think so much will depend on the new coach they bring and whether they like Carr.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, philibusters said:

I think people are overreacting to the first 6 games.    If the defense was as advertised in the offseason, we are probably 4-2 right even with Heinicke at QB.  It hasn't been the offense that is the issue.  You put Matthew Stafford on this team and we have a decent shot at 4-2 now, but again, you give us the same QB play and better secondary play and we are 4-2.  Its a 17 game season.  I think Rivera is a decent coach.  Things don't look good now but I think this team finishes around 7-10.  At some point we'll start playing better and put together a 2 or 3 game win streak.

 

 

I think our offense being good and not problematic was mostly smoke and mirrors fueld by 30 point wins over two of the worst teams in the NFL. Against teams with decent defenses our offense has been mediocre at best, terrible at worst.

 

Our defense sucks. But our offense isn't very good either.

[TheGoodBits]

7 hours ago, Ball Security said:

I believe that, with Gruden gone, LV is less likely to move Carr.

My NFL conspiracy theory is that Mark Davis had buyers remorse on the Gruden contract (10yr 100m ayfkm?) and Snyder offered to leak Gruden’s emails to force him out. The price? Derek Carr for a reasonable return in the offseason. 

[method man]

17 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

My NFL conspiracy theory is that Mark Davis had buyers remorse on the Gruden contract (10yr 100m ayfkm?) and Snyder offered to leak Gruden’s emails to force him out. The price? Derek Carr for a reasonable return in the offseason. 

 

Haha that would be nice. Sadly, it's been reported that Mark Davis was pissed that the NFL leaked this and his comments seem to confirm it

[The Consigliere]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:39 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Lesson for me in the last draft.  The two dudes who were elusive as heck and YAC monsters who stood out on that front:  Rondale Moore and Kadrius Toney.  they both look really good thus far this season.  I haven't thought about yet who plays in that style in this coming draft.  But as for the short sample thus far, both players look like they are hard for NFL defenses to stop.

Early breakout age for Moore was telling. Dude was a monster as an 18 year old freshman.

[method man]

19 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Early breakout age for Moore was telling. Dude was a monster as an 18 year old freshman.

 

With Toney, it is easy to see. The guy has freaky quickness 

[The Consigliere]

On 10/12/2021 at 5:59 PM, Wyvern said:

SIP, Thanks for the notice about Kenny Pickett.  I liked much of what I saw of him

 

Always a little suspicious of jumps like that (then again Burrow did that).

12-6

13-9

13-9

21-1

or whatever it is, I'm definitely suspicious, hopeful, but suspicious. Much rather see guys that breakout early, than that only show elite skills when they're older than their opponents but who knows, maybe he's a stud. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Rivera’s comment recently about last season essentially raising expectations too much is pretty telling. My take is that he knew we were not ready for a rookie QB last offseason. So in turn they hung off going up in the draft. We never tried for Stafford really. Fitz was a well priced placeholder, in theory.

 

 

They supposedly offered a first and a third, one reporter said a first and third and a player.  Mike Silver who knows Ron the best suggested they even thought they'd land Stafford.  So I am not sure what is a serious offer?  I know I specifically said on the QB thread last off season I'd give a first and third for Stafford and almost everyone on that thread thought it was too rich.  So tough for me to now see that as a pittance offer. 

 

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 

Problem is that we have regressed this season. Badly. Plus, having been all in on Rivera so far, I’m slightly dismayed at the path this season has taken. He’s not leading us like he should be. Feels like trouble is ahead, he looks ground down to me.

 

 

Some forget but it felt like this last season too.  The recency effect of their late season run stepped on that initial feeling.  I want to see the story unfold this season first.  

 

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 

We are in a tough spot. I could see us going all in for a QB this draft out of desperation on several levels. At that stage it is a complete guess as to the level of success that would bring. Hard to see it going well.

 

Based on their targets last year, I got faith they can pull it off.  Will see.  i like Matt Corral and from a short sample I liked what I saw from Willis.  I got to watch Pickett.  I am intrigued to check out Armstrong.  I waffle some on Howell and Ridder. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mistertim]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I appreciate the guts and hard nosed play there, but I also don't really want to see much more of it. He can't do that **** in the NFL and stay healthy for long. He's not 6'5 and 240 lbs.

[Redskins Reparations]

9 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Parson's definitely at least seemed like a "mine". If anything about the Penn State story is true w/regards to him, he should be in jail, that kind of thing tends to be sticky with a player. Nobody anywhere doubted Parsons a top 3-5 talent in that draft, at worst 6-10, it was the mental make up that made him borderline undraftable. 

I am not following…what are some of the accusations made towards Parsons when he was at Penn State?

[Redskins Reparations]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:42 AM, clskinsfan said:

No love for Kenny Pickett in this thread? Dual threat, big arm and has a mediocre Pitt team at 5-1 right now. HE is currently the number 3 rated QB in college football. His draft stock is going to skyrocket if he keeps playing the way he is. 

He is definitely a riser and one to keep an eye on. Decent size too…

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

11 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

I am not following…what are some of the accusations made towards Parsons when he was at Penn State?

Shoved stuff up some teammates’ butts.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

49 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

I am not following…what are some of the accusations made towards Parsons when he was at Penn State?

 

Accusations are that he raped at least one of his teammates, and sexual assault on others.