The Trump Riot Aftermath (Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes found guilty of seditious conspiracy. Proud Boys join the club)

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'll continue to save my anger for the GOP as they are the folks defending this traitor.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Feels like we’re blaming Austria for the Holocaust.

[TradeTheBeal!]

13 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Feels like we’re blaming Austria for the Holocaust.

Its FDR’s fault.  Should’ve pre-emptively invaded Germany in 1937 to prevent it from occurring.

 

Typical toothless Dem.

[Cooked Crack]

 

[mistertim]

57 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

I agree with her. Sometimes it is easy to judge a book by its cover.

 

In this case the cover said it was a book about a Nazi MAGA piece of human excrement. And I'm going to judge that. So that guy can choke on an entire bag of dicks as far as I'm concerned.

[China]

Judge allows Doug Jensen’s FBI interview in trial set for Sept. 19

 

The Des Moines man seen at the front of the pack of rioters inside the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 will face trial Sept. 19. At the heart of the prosecutors’ argument is an interview Jensen did with the FBI two days after video showed him inside the Capitol.

 

Jensen’s defense attorney filed a motion to suppress the interview with the FBI because he says Jensen was illegally detained, wasn’t given his Miranda rights, was sleep deprived and did not give a voluntary interview.

 

Wednesday afternoon, Judge Timothy Kelly, ruled the interview was voluntary and Jensen did not need to have his Miranda Rights read to him because he was never in any custody. Judge Kelly said Jensen voluntarily walked to Des Moines Police, talked to the FBI voluntarily, and agents gave him a ride home. Therefore, Judge Kelly ruled the interview should not be suppressed, and can be used in court.

 

Jensen’s defense team also wanted information found on his cell phone to be suppressed, but Judge Kelly also ruled that information was voluntarily given to FBI agents by Jensen that day.

 

Text messages, according to court documents, show his friends and family saw him on TV.

 

“Seen ya on CBS in tha capital” one received text message states.

 

[LadySkinsFan]

Sometimes the stupid just rolls right out of them.

[Bang]

6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I think I agree with your general premise - the warning signs weren’t always taken seriously enough (I know many dems did take them quite seriously though), and part of that was a belief that the guardrails would constrain Trump et al to some degree - but I’m also not sure what tangible things they could have done?  25th is up to cabinet members, has nothing to do with dems (though as Buzz points out, the J6 committee could have pushed this harder, though there’s still some time I guess).  Now if you wanna talk about Manchin and Sinema and ditching the filibuster in order to strengthen/re-establish voters rights and expand the court, I’m on board.  If you’re thinking the FBI should have pushed their investigations into the organizers sooner, I tend to agree… but that’s not a dem thing.

 

So I guess I’m honestly asking (there’s a lot I don’t know about the topic) what else could be done?

 

One thing that I think has to change is a two-part issue - improving privacy laws and increasing sentences for (and investigations into) threats of violence toward individuals - whether it’s election workers, congresspersons, their staff, etc.

I recognize they are not a law enforcement body, but if I've said it once i've said it a thousand times.. evil takes root because good people fail to act until it's too late. They keep expecting the evil to play by established rules, and they don't.
I'm not advocating the Dems do illegal things, but they insisted on trying to play this game without getting any dirt on them.

Biden FINALLY called them out last week.

And in doing so he has FINALLY said what has needed to be realized / said  for literally 20 friggin' years now, this is NOT a group that will reason, that will not compromise in any way on any of their lunatic ideas, that WILL engage in violence to achieve their means, that WILL back murderers and traitors without question, that will change laws and policies to advance their power, and should be completely purged from any positions within our government.
This sort of backbone is what we've needed.
The Dems couldn't even expel the traitors in their midst. 
Look, they are convicting people of participating in sedition, no matter which minor crime some may have plead down to ("unlawfully using a federal faucet" or some ****.)
Today Louie Gohmert is handing a ****ing flagto a woman getting out o prison for storming the Capitol, over which this flag flew. If that isn't "siding with the ****ing enemy" or however it's written, I don't know what is.
THink anything will happen?
Maybe a nice biting retort on Twitter. That'll show 'em.
Josh ****ing Hawley is demonstrating his solidarity with them before the riot begins. Their response is to show a video of him running. 
Woo. Haha funny. He's still there.
Not only is Matt Gaetz under an investigation for underage solicitation, they literally have RECEIPTS that prove it, and they STILL allow him on the committee that has oversight on the agencies investigating him. Nevermind he once busted into a SCIF during a closed impeachment proceeding with an active cell phone camera, for which he paid no penalty.

They did nothing.
They have done nothing. 
History teaches us ad-Infinium, Good expects evil to have their same morality, to be civil, especially when there is a pre-set rule of law to which both had adhered prior.
And evil knows it.

Seems like this is a very OLD story.

 

~Bang

Edited September 11, 2022 by Bang

[LD0506]

Bang, I hear ya and would pretty much agree with all that as far as it goes, but historically this has always been the path. The left/normal/decent/center/got better things to do always lets evil run rampant for far too long and is criticized for doing so. There was a storm in the press prior to the Civil War about just this, we sat on our collective asses for two years after WWII began trying to maneuver some advantage, etc etc. The vast mass of humanity doesn't want war, doesn't want to fight in a war, doesn't want to be inconvenienced by a war and will rationalize beyond the point of sanity to convince themselves there is some other way. The reality is that the right/fascist/orc factions always want war, it is their highest expression of self and raison d'être, they are at heart destroyers in the name of greed and insecurity. They have to drive the majority to it, drag them kicking and screaming to accept that another war is going to happen.

 

Of course, once you do that drag the results are fearful. People rise up in terrifying strength to fight, naysayers are squelched, the wavering are stiffened, the uncaring are enlisted and that sleeping giant gets wakened. Once that happens the debaters and negotiators and moral equivalents and mealy mouthed doubletalkers get replaced with passionate inspired partisans. 

 

We had to get dragged before they yanked McClellan. Billy Mitchell saw his career crater for fighting the entrenched experts. 

 

We don't even know the names of our heroes yet. Hang in there, this **** is actually just getting started. They've had their play, ours is coming.

[Darrell Green Fan]

11 hours ago, Bang said:

I recognize they are not a law enforcement body, but if I've said it once i've said it a thousand times.. evil takes root because good people fail to act until it's too late. They keep expecting the evil to play by established rules, and they don't.
I'm not advocating the Dems do illegal things, but they insisted on trying to play this game without getting any dirt on them.

Biden FINALLY called them out last week.

And in doing so he has FINALLY said what has needed to be realized / said  for literally 20 friggin' years now, this is NOT a group that will reason, that will not compromise in any way on any of their lunatic ideas, that WILL engage in violence to achieve their means, that WILL back murderers and traitors without question, that will change laws and policies to advance their power, and should be completely purged from any positions within our government.
This sort of backbone is what we've needed.
The Dems couldn't even expel the traitors in their midst. 
Look, they are convicting people of participating in sedition, no matter which minor crime some may have plead down to ("unlawfully using a federal faucet" or some ****.)
Today Louie Gohmert is handing a ****ing flagto a woman getting out o prison for storming the Capitol, over which this flag flew. If that isn't "siding with the ****ing enemy" or however it's written, I don't know what is.
THink anything will happen?
Maybe a nice biting retort on Twitter. That'll show 'em.
Josh ****ing Hawley is demonstrating his solidarity with them before the riot begins. Their response is to show a video of him running. 
Woo. Haha funny. He's still there.
Not only is Matt Gaetz under an investigation for underage solicitation, they literally have RECEIPTS that prove it, and they STILL allow him on the committee that has oversight on the agencies investigating him. Nevermind he once busted into a SCIF during a closed impeachment proceeding with an active cell phone camera, for which he paid no penalty.

They did nothing.
They have done nothing. 
History teaches us ad-Infinium, Good expects evil to have their same morality, to be civil, especially when there is a pre-set rule of law to which both had adhered prior.
And evil knows it.

Seems like this is a very OLD story.

 

~Bang

You sure make long posts and put in great effort to blame the wrong party.  While some of what you say is true IMO you are pointing your gun in the wrong direction.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

Keep in mind, the guy (who I think very highly of) typing up these raging screeds is/was a self-confessed GOP voter for the first 40 or so years of his life.

 

So, he’s kinda wrestling with himself in there.  Which helps to explain the tone.

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Keep in mind, the guy (who I think very highly of) typing up these raging screeds is/was a self-confessed GOP voter for the first 40 or so years of his life.

 

So, he’s kinda wrestling with himself in there.  Which helps to explain the tone.

 

Then he should be railing again his former party in a scorned lover sort of way.  I mean I get what he is saying and agree to some extent. But it's not hard to see who the party in the wrong is here.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Then he should be railing again his former party in a scorned lover sort of way.  I mean I get what he is saying and agree to some extent. But it's not hard to see who the party in the wrong is here.  

 

As someone who generally agrees with the things @Bang says, pointing out the faults of the Left is a valuable resource here.  Do you need him to also point out that the GOP is worse?  I don't think he would argue that they aren't.  But we have plenty of people here to dump on the GOP.  Remembering to hold the Left accountable for the stuff they suck at is important also.  And here on ES, we have  no shortage of posters willing to point out the faults of the GOP.  We don't need just one more person feeding an echo chamber.

[Bang]

10 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

You sure make long posts and put in great effort to blame the wrong party.  While some of what you say is true IMO you are pointing your gun in the wrong direction.  

You're not paying attention to those posts.

Like I said, are you satisfied with how they have handled the greatest threat to our nation since the Civil War?
Do you think they have done all that they could have done?

 

~Bang

[Bang]

9 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Then he should be railing again his former party in a scorned lover sort of way.  I mean I get what he is saying and agree to some extent. But it's not hard to see who the party in the wrong is here.  

I know you're not new here, it's just sort of surprising that you haven't seen me screaming about the GOP for pretty much most of the 20 or so years I've been posting here. In fact, of all of us, i think I have been one of the loudest firebrands on this site against them. I'd say in my last thousand posts, 950 of them are screaming about the danger of the GOP.

To my former GOP status,, i am not wrestling with anything. I gave up on them entirely about 15 yrs ago, and as of now, I'll never vote for another one until this entire iteration of the GOP is put on trial and removed from every public aspect of American life, except to see them in orange jumpsuits picking up trash on the side of the road.
They are fascists. (FTR, I vote for ideas. Not a team, not a single set of rules as to how policy is to be implemented. The world changes too fast for rigid thinking like that. Earn my vote with ideas and policies that work to advance our nation, and I'll cast it. )
Now, if they can come back to embrace ideologies like you see out of Republican Larry Hogan (actual conservatism, not this religious zealotry and fascism that they are now.) , then i may reconsider, but right now, there's no way in hell. The most I'd ever give any of them is spit right in their eyes.

However, the Democrats and their weak kneed response to all of it has given it all the life it needs. Their failure to rein in any of it, to be continually bullied by a minority that canges rules to suit them has been embarrassing and dangerous to watch. They had opportunities to protect us from this and failed.
Not recognizing that is to be blind as a bat.
And that sort of blindness is what allows the fascists to rise.

 

~Bang

Edited September 11, 2022 by Bang

[LadySkinsFan]

I was very disappointed that Nixon was pardoned. He should have been indicted and stood trial, there was enough ire against him that if the deal was the pardon for resigning, they should have said no deal, impeached and removed him. They had the votes in both chambers. What they did to Bill Clinton was a payback for the deal for Nixon. It was stupid because he lied about sex. Like those Republican ****ers were so innocent about their sexcapades. Especially Newt Gingrich, what a ****er. 

 

This opened the door for the fascists. The Christian Nationalists and white supremists. Trump let them out from under their rocks.

[Bang]

On 9/10/2022 at 5:08 PM, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Feels like we’re blaming Austria for the Holocaust.

Not really.

(I mean aside from the point that all that we watched happening in Germany was happening in another country, and we really weren't in any position to go do anything.)
This is happening here. And it isn't some new thing. Trump and MAGA are the culmination of what they have been doing for about 25 yrs, ever since Newt Gingrich decided that facts weren't facts, and if there was a fact, he could invent another one and sell it to enough rubes for it to become part of the discourse.

 

but i'll ask again.

Have the Dems done everything they could have done to stop any of this?
Why not use the 25th? CLEARLY he has been unfit for office and it became increasingly more alarming as his term went along. Not policy issues, not disagreements over lawmaking..  his illegal activity, his using the office to bilk Americans out of hundreds of millions of dollars.. personally enriching himself and laughing out loud while he did it. His entire family did so. And then of course his cozy relationships with enemy nations, his straight up attempt to destroy NATO..  it goes on and on and on and on.

Serious question. Why not? What is it even in the Constitution for if not to remove a blatantly corrupt and potentially treasonous president who performed illegal acts on the daily?
I say "potentially treasonous" because during his term all of our intel agencies raised the alarms about his coziness with the Russians, and during the term it was not as obvious as it is now,, even though it was.
The difference now is we know for an absolute fact that he stole highly secured documents and we know that he did indeed try to start a violent coup to remain in power.

 

Why only 2 articles of impeachment when there were more violations than you could shake a stick at?
I'm not hinting at any conspiracy.. they did this because this is how they always do. They expect that the machinations of decent society will rein them in, and they laugh at that.
 

I applaud Biden's speech in which he finally called them what they are. I stand and cheer for it. I honestly think he's doing a great job and he is steadily laying hammers on them.
Folks who think I'm 'blaming" the dems aren't listening. It's not about blame. It's utter frustration at watching them basically do it while laughing right in their faces, being powerless against it because the few who could oppose them thought wagging the finger and saying "tsk tsk" would be enough. They thoroughly misjudged this threat.

~Bang

Edited September 12, 2022 by Bang

[Captain Wiggles]

The 25th Ammendment?  

 

The Democrats had no control over that. Only the Vice President, cabinet members, and President himself can invoke it if the President is unable to do the duties of the office.

 

Just curious what exactly the Democrats are sposta do? From what I've seen they've exhausted a lot of the options at this point. If the DOJ has something, which we all suspect they do, they'll hopefully drop the hammer when they're able.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Captain Wiggles

[Bang]

11 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

The 25th Ammendment?  

 

The Democrats had no control over that. Only the Vice President, cabinet members, and President himself can invoke it if the President is unable to do the duties of the office.

 

Just curious what exactly the Democrats are sposta do? From what I've seen they've exhausted a lot of the options at this point. If the DOJ has something, which we all suspect they do, they'll hopefully drop the hammer when they're able.

Well..  OK.

That is a good reason why not. 
Impeaching him was necessary.. but they could have done more than two articles. 

As it is now, the Jan 6 hearings are running dangerously close to elections that can potentially get it all shut down. I recognize the necessity to have it locked down before arresting because of the sensitive nature.

But damn, it sure seems like the proof could have been found and used. It's not like the GOP has been anything but completely transparent in how they do all of it.

 

~Bang

[TheGreatBuzz]

Or the could do what I suggested above about the 25th.  And they should have been calling for it loudly while Trump was in office so that every reporter asked every cabinet official every day why they haven’t invoked it yet.

 

Edit:  Also, if you want to know what the Dems should have done, there are about 10 threads you can go read.  Suggestions are made almost daily.

Edited September 12, 2022 by The Almighty Buzz
Add

[Captain Wiggles]

8 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

Or the could do what I suggested above about the 25th. 

 

Once again the 25th Ammendment? The Democrats had zero say in the matter. Only the VP, cabinet, n President can invoke it. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

12 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Once again the 25th Ammendment? The Democrats had zero say in the matter. Only the VP, cabinet, n President can invoke it. 

 

Did you bother to go back and read what I posted about the 25th?  I'm guessing not.

[Captain Wiggles]

9 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

Did you bother to go back and read what I posted about the 25th?  I'm guessing not.

 

I looked back over the last 2 pages n didn't see anything. Sorry. 🤷‍♂️

 

Ah I see. The calling of the cabinet members to testify to the j6 committee? They have. Elaine Chao Cocaine Mitches wife I know is one. From what I've read the invoking of the 25th Ammendment has been a topic of discussion in those meetings. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Captain Wiggles

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

Ah I see. The calling of the cabinet members to testify to the j6 committee? They have. Elaine Choa Cocaine Mitches wife I know is one. From what I've read the invoking of the 25th Ammendment has been at opic if discussion in those meetings. 

 

I'm talking about specifically questioning about why/why not the 25th was in play and do it openly in front of anyone.  And plan it so they testify one after another.  BAM.....BAM.....BAM!  Days of coverage of those closest to him testifying about how he was unfit.

 

That's just one more example of how the Dems (and America) could be fighting more.

[Captain Wiggles]

12 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

 

I'm talking about specifically questioning about why/why not the 25th was in play and do it openly in front of anyone.  And plan it so they testify one after another.  BAM.....BAM.....BAM!  Days of coverage of those closest to him testifying about how he was unfit.

 

That's just one more example of how the Dems (and America) could be fighting more.

 

Yeah that'll never happen. You think Mitch McConnells going to allow his wife to be questioned by Congress on live TV? I don't. I doubt any other cabinet members would accept either. It's been difficult enough to get the few members to testify behind closed doors. 

 

Hell I could see challenging Trump to testify live. Once again don't see it even happening. He'd be crazy enough tho to accept if the decision was left up to just him.

 

Even if ya got every member of the Trump administration to testify it won't change a damn thing. Their testimony would be refuted on Twitter and 40% of the country will believe the tweet and not the sworn testimony. We've already seen that. Trump tried to choke one of his secret service agents. Nobody really cared after a few days. 🤣 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Captain Wiggles