Let’s just address the elephant in the room: Should sports go on?

[ExoDus84]

15 hours ago, tshile said:

I’ve been kinda meh on baseball. But tonight was the first time I sat down, turned tv on and it was already on mlb network, and I just sighed and thought “oh thank god there something to watch “

 

We need real sports.

 

I don't know if I can go back to watching competitive Cornhole and the World Series of Beer Pong on ESPN. I just don't think I can survive that.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

30 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

The MLB is playing this by ear. The players have no confidence in the league.

 

My larger point is that they shouldn't have even agreed to play, if they were going to opt out of games due to positive tests. Everyone knew there would be positive tests and had the opportunity to opt out of the season if they weren't comfortable with it. 

[wrilbo67]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I get that the number of positives is jarring, but I really don't understand the calls to cancel the season. There were conditions put into place to address this very likely situation. If MLB wasn't prepared to play through team outbreaks, they wouldn't have started the season and had the extra 30 players available. 

 

The problem is that the precautions they put in place weren't based on any sort of science- They were a PR stunt to make everyone think MLB was taking the disease seriously. They're already stretched on their precautions 3 days into the season. The Marlins are going to have to dress guys with 0 MLB experience as players and coaches. The Nats players are refusing to fly to Miami for their weekend series. The Braves and Phillies were both exposed to the Marlins during their incubation period, so they might have their own outbreaks soon.

 

This season could literally end with the Pawtuckett Red Sox and Norfolk Tides battling for the AL East title.

[Mr. Sinister]

End it

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I understand. I guess what I'm saying is that we all knew this 1 month ago. Anyone going into this believing there would be no outbreaks was being naive. Personally, I'm still fine watching SOMETHING so long as the people playing want to be there. 

[Elessar78]

5 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I understand. I guess what I'm saying is that we all knew this 1 month ago. Anyone going into this believing there would be no outbreaks was being naive. Personally, I'm still fine watching SOMETHING so long as the people playing want to be there. 

The guys making an odd million per year, yeah maybe. What about the trainers/staff making a normal worker's wages?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

6 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

The guys making an odd million per year, yeah maybe. What about the trainers/staff making a normal worker's wages?

 

What's the question? They can opt out too I'm sure. If the season is cancelled they won't be working either, so I don't see how choosing not to risk it is any different for them personally. 

[Springfield]

What’s the risk of playing ball vs going to the gym or going to the grocery store?

[CobraCommander]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

What's the question? They can opt out too I'm sure. If the season is cancelled they won't be working either, so I don't see how choosing not to risk it is any different for them personally. 

I doubt it works the same for trainers and other staff. They aren't backed by the players association. They would likely have to quit and then the teams would simply hire someone to fill the position.

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I doubt it works the same for trainers and other staff. They aren't backed by the players association. They would likely have to quit and then the teams would simply hire someone to fill the position.

 

 

 

You might be right and that's possible. But isn't that what many of us are dealing with if our companies are opened up but we aren't comfortable working? Also, would trainers be making money if MLB shut down for the season? 

[CobraCommander]

16 minutes ago, Springfield said:

What’s the risk of playing ball vs going to the gym or going to the grocery store?

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=26936&publicId=395

 

Grocery Shopping 3

Football 7

Gym 8

[CobraCommander]

11 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

You might be right and that's possible. But isn't that what many of us are dealing with if our companies are opened up but we aren't comfortable working? Also, would trainers be making money if MLB shut down for the season? 

 

Speaking on a personal level I was not given the opportunity to "opt out". My company let me go early on. I worked for a catering company. They reopened on a PPP loan and I was called back to work. Because we re-opened I had to take my kids back to daycare. My son was the first to get Covid-19 from a teacher. Then my daughter. Then me and my wife tested positive. I was then laid off again while still sick.

 

I never felt like I could "opt-out". I feel like if I told my company no, there would be no chance of me getting rehired in the future. 

 

Most likely trainers would be let go and have to file for unemployment. I've never been on it in my life and I don't feel great about it but the options for someone in my field are pretty terrible right now. I can't tell you how many jobs I've applied for and I haven't heard from one single employer. I've tried outside my field as well. Thanks for the advice Ivanka

 

If I were a trainer for a professional sports team I would not feel comfortable trying to opt-out.

[wrilbo67]

40 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I understand. I guess what I'm saying is that we all knew this 1 month ago. Anyone going into this believing there would be no outbreaks was being naive. Personally, I'm still fine watching SOMETHING so long as the people playing want to be there. 

 

Its starting to look like they don't want to be there.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

10 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

 

Speaking on a personal level I was not given the opportunity to "opt out". My company let me go early on. I worked for a catering company. They reopened on a PPP loan and I was called back to work. Because we re-opened I had to take my kids back to daycare. My son was the first to get Covid-19 from a teacher. Then my daughter. Then me and my wife tested positive. I was then laid off again while still sick.

 

I never felt like I could "opt-out". I feel like if I told my company no, there would be no chance of me getting rehired in the future. 

 

Most likely trainers would be let go and have to file for unemployment. I've never been on it in my life and I don't feel great about it but the options for someone in my field are pretty terrible right now. I can't tell you how many jobs I've applied for and I haven't heard from one single employer. I've tried outside my field as well. Thanks for the advice Ivanka

 

If I were a trainer for a professional sports team I would not feel comfortable trying to opt-out.

 

I'm very sorry to hear about all of that. And I think it's similar to my point...the rest of the world is dealing with either going to work or choosing to prioritize family. I don't think the decision to play or cancel the MLB season should be dependent on trainers possibly being in the same boat as the rest of us. 

7 minutes ago, wrilbo67 said:

 

Its starting to look like they don't want to be there.

 

And there's a mechanism in place for those who don't. 

[wrilbo67]

12 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

And there's a mechanism in place for those who don't. 

 

At some point, though, the competitive integrity of the league becomes an issue.  If teams refuse to play the Marlins (as the Nats are) because of their outbreak, does that become a forfeit in the Marlins favor? If instead, the Nats all opt out of the season, the team is likely fielding a AA/AAA team. Just as things stand, if a bunch of Nats players opt out, and the Braves, Phillies and Marlins are all in the midst of an outbreak, the Mets have a free pass to build a major lead in the division until their opponents come back.

 

That's the point we're all making- the disease and the opting out are not uniform actions.  A team that gets one infection is likely to have many more, and the people most likely to opt out at that points are the ones playing those infected teams. So once you have one player infected, you have that entire team potentially infected, and all of their regional opponents at risk and likely to opt out. And since everyone is competing for the same 16 playoff spots, the problem daisy chains across the league as certain teams now have inside positions to make the playoffs.

 

The opt-out mechanisms are great, but they quickly ripple out across the league. Its literally happening in front of us.  The latest news is that the Marlins and Phillies are shut down.  This is five days into the season.  This is a joke.

[88Comrade2000]

Well, the Marlins season is suspended.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/marlins/2020/07/28/miami-marlins-season-pause-after-covid-19-outbreak/5528651002/

[wrilbo67]

6 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Well, the Marlins season is suspended.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/marlins/2020/07/28/miami-marlins-season-pause-after-covid-19-outbreak/5528651002/

 

"The Yankees, also marooned in Philadelphia since Monday, will now travel south and play two games against the Orioles at Camden Yards, according to multiple reports. That leaves the Phillies without an opponent until Friday, and with four games against the Yankees to make up."

 

This is comically incompetent.  I could see a scenario where this ends with two teams losing so many players they combine forces to finish the season (kind of like how some NFL teams combined in the 40s to get through WWII).  Go Miampa Marl-Rays!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, wrilbo67 said:

 

At some point, though, the competitive integrity of the league becomes an issue.  If teams refuse to play the Marlins (as the Nats are) because of their outbreak, does that become a forfeit in the Marlins favor? If instead, the Nats all opt out of the season, the team is likely fielding a AA/AAA team. Just as things stand, if a bunch of Nats players opt out, and the Braves, Phillies and Marlins are all in the midst of an outbreak, the Mets have a free pass to build a major lead in the division until their opponents come back.

 

That's the point we're all making- the disease and the opting out are not uniform actions.  A team that gets one infection is likely to have many more, and the people most likely to opt out at that points are the ones playing those infected teams. So once you have one player infected, you have that entire team potentially infected, and all of their regional opponents at risk and likely to opt out. And since everyone is competing for the same 16 playoff spots, the problem daisy chains across the league as certain teams now have inside positions to make the playoffs.

 

The opt-out mechanisms are great, but they quickly ripple out across the league. Its literally happening in front of us.  The latest news is that the Marlins and Phillies are shut down.  This is five days into the season.  This is a joke.

 

It's imperfect - but it's more imperfection during an already imperfect season. It's sports...things like competitive advantages during this odd-ass season probably shouldn't be the priority. 

 

If the league decides to shut it all down or had decided never to start, that's fine. All I'm really saying is that reacting in shock when an expected outcome occurs doesn't do any good. 

1 minute ago, wrilbo67 said:

 

"The Yankees, also marooned in Philadelphia since Monday, will now travel south and play two games against the Orioles at Camden Yards, according to multiple reports. That leaves the Phillies without an opponent until Friday, and with four games against the Yankees to make up."

 

This is comically incompetent.  I could see a scenario where this ends with two teams losing so many players they combine forces to finish the season (kind of like how some NFL teams combined in the 40s to get through WWII).  Go Miampa Marl-Rays!

 

The Steagles!

[CobraCommander]

This nation seems hellbent on keeping this virus alive as long as possible. Sports aren’t a necessity. None of these players is an essential worker. As a society we have prolonged this virus to try and keep the economy going and in doing so we are allowing it to go further in the dumpster. I could be back at work by now like our brothers and sisters in New Zealand and other parts of the world who took this seriously. 
 

btw New Zealand is as far as I can tell the only nation that has returned to normal so much so that by June 14th they had fans packed in a stadium watching rugby.

[wrilbo67]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

It's imperfect - but it's more imperfection during an already imperfect season. It's sports...things like competitive advantages during this odd-ass season probably shouldn't be the priority. 

 

If the league decides to shut it all down or had decided never to start, that's fine. All I'm really saying is that reacting in shock when an expected outcome occurs doesn't do any good.

 

I'm definitely not in shock- that's kind of the point. I've been saying from the beginning- that all they need is one team with an outbreak and all kind of problems ensue: logistical, ethical and competitive. But they're literally accomplishing nothing at this point.  This isn't a high-quality product for the fans. The game barely resembles baseball. They're putting players' health at risk. And they pissed off a bunch of fans with a labor dispute to start it. The only reason they're pushing forward is to avoid cutting a big check to their sponsors and broadcasters.  I've been saying since the beginning that they shouldn't start the season, and now I'm saying that they should definitely kill it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

10 minutes ago, wrilbo67 said:

 

I'm definitely not in shock- that's kind of the point. I've been saying from the beginning- that all they need is one team with an outbreak and all kind of problems ensue: logistical, ethical and competitive. But they're literally accomplishing nothing at this point.  This isn't a high-quality product for the fans. The game barely resembles baseball. They're putting players' health at risk. And they pissed off a bunch of fans with a labor dispute to start it. The only reason they're pushing forward is to avoid cutting a big check to their sponsors and broadcasters.  I've been saying since the beginning that they shouldn't start the season, and now I'm saying that they should definitely kill it.

 

I just think this is a case of a team making bad decisions...check this out:

 

In statement about all the changes perhaps this is most vital from MLB release: In over 6,400 tests conducted since Fri, July 24, there have been no new positives of on-field personnel from any of the other 29 Clubs. In other words only #Marlins have been positive.

 

I don't think that screams "definitely kill it" because one team hit a strip club when they shouldn't have and the other 29 teams have been stable. 

[Elessar78]

1 hour ago, Florgon79 said:

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=26936&publicId=395

 

Grocery Shopping 3

Football 7

Gym 8

I researched the (outdoor) pool thing pretty extensively before we joined this summer and my sources said that as long as you were at least 6 feet from others that it's pretty safe. Biggest concern is the locker rooms. The chlorine in the water should kill the virus.

Adam Schefter had an interview with Andy Slavitt and they made a point that it's prohibitively complex for NFL teams to distance in a locker room. Too many players/coaches.

[wrilbo67]

Are you sure they got it in a strip club though? It's nice to imply they contracted the disease doing something largely considered irresponsible but they could've just as easily gotten it at the grocery store, the coffee shop or the barber shop.  Florida is hotbed of infections right now, so we can't pass much judgement on where it was contracted. 

 

And lets not forget that the Rays, Rangers, Astros, Dodgers, Angels, Diamondbacks, As, Giants and Braves all play in states where the disease is running rampant at the moment. Given the infection levels, we don't have many safeguards that those teams (or their visiting opponents) won't catch the disease just living their day-to-day lives in those cities. This is especially true given the complete lack of seriousness those states have shown around the disease.

 

The "one team has an outbreak," scenario was literally the nightmare scenario when this was announced and MLB didn't make it a week without it happening.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

That's fair - I have no clue how they got it. I do know that they broke protocols and got it though...

 

And no, one team has an outbreak while every other team has a 0.3% positive test rate was NOT the nightmare scenario. Multiple teams having multiple positives is clearly the nightmare scenario. It's already an imperfect season so who cares if there needs to be re-scheduling to compensate for a one-team outbreak?

[wrilbo67]

5 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

That's fair - I have no clue how they got it. I do know that they broke protocols and got it though...

 

And no, one team has an outbreak while every other team has a 0.3% positive test rate was NOT the nightmare scenario. Multiple teams having multiple positives is clearly the nightmare scenario. It's already an imperfect season so who cares if there needs to be re-scheduling to compensate for a one-team outbreak?

 

Well, the one team thing was my nightmare scenario because its already exposed a ton of problems. I guess we're halfway to your nightmare scenario. The biggest problem I see is that these teams are traveling in and out of places that aren't taking the disease seriously. It's not like we've all been responsible and are free to enjoy baseball without fans as the disease winds down (as was the case with the English Premier League).  We're mid-pandemic (if we're lucky/responsible) convincing ourselves that it's over.

 

Also, where did you read that they broke protocols, or that it was multiple players who did so? The only protocol I know that was broken was choosing to play when they knew were already positive on Sunday.