2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[dballer]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

We need the bottom to come out on this thing.  We need a new coaching staff and FO structure and top five picks in each round plus Trent's ass booted out the door.

 

And unfortunately we have to rebuild the defense again.  This season is for figuring out which pieces are keepers and which are expendable and have trade value.

 

- Payne and Settle are definite keepers.

- Allen is a keeper.

- Sweat is hopefully a keeper too.

- Dunbar is a keeper

 

That's what I've got.

 

These are the good role players I wouldn't be in a hurry to replace, but that we could certainly upgrade if we get the chance:

- Nicholson and Collins

- Ioannidis

 

- Kerrigan should be traded

 

- Everyone else on the defense is completely replaceable.

 

I would add that Holcombe has a chance to play his way into role players I wouldn't be in a hurry to replace if he progresses throughout the year.

 

Moreland also.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I  So maybe we can get by with lesser talent at receiver and corner than at any of our other positions.  But you never know how these performances sustain themselves long term, and we could certainly use more than one guy at corner and receiver.

 

We definitely need a corner and to me that's another reason to love Young. A great pass rush helps the secondary in a big way.  I like Kerrigan more than most.  But he's not a game wrecker type of pass rusher.  He makes some plays and makes a difference but he isn't a dude you fear that much.    Young to me is in a different class potentially.    He is the type of dude that makes the secondary better.  A game wrecker.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Popping in here for the first time since the draft. I may have missed this in past pages ... but now that it is becoming increasingly likely that we have a high pick ... has there been any discussion of what the potential value of #1 to #3 pick is in this draft?

 

As tempting as it might be, I don't see the Redskins going the route of the Cardinals. And I pray, pray, pray that there is a new Front Office (or at least FO Leader) in place by the time big decisions have to be made at this level.

 

With Tua, Fromm and Herbert in this draft, I think the value of picks 1-3 is pretty high, with the #1 pick obviuosly holding the most value.

 

If the Skins had #1, what would the expected 'haul' be ...

If we held #2?

If we held #3?

 

The best option would clearly be to end up with #1 (hopefully by going 1-15 or 2-14 and not 0-16) ... trade that pick to Miami (for, presumably, #2 or #3 ... and also get the Steelers 1st which could be Top 12 and maybe a 2nd.

 

Then you could get either the top OT or Jeudy at #2/3 and use the other 1st on a WR/OT and ... big IF ... If you get get a 2nd out of it and also get a 2nd by trading Trent sometime in the next few weeks (WTF Bruce) ... you would have the picks to also address defense and TE with fairly impactful picks.

 

Personally I think we end up going 3-13 and end up with the #2 to #4 pick.

 

A travesty would be to get pick #4 and have the Dolphins, Bengals and Broncos get picks 1-3 (would assume Denver would go QB even though they spent a 2 on Lock). While this would allow the Skins to draft the #1 OT or #1 WR ... it would take away the value of trading the pick. While I always tend to lean toward trading back to accumulate picks, it would be sad if we, in our bottoming-out year, just missed the value of one of the Top 3 picks and the opportunity to rob another team of draft assets while we build around Haskins.

 

Could you imagine if we went 1-15 and had the #1 pick? Trade it to the Dolphins for #2, #12 (Steelers) and a 2nd? Man.

[Skinsinparadise]

some talk here on PFF, here are the defensive grades thus far

 

 

[HoggLife]

Seriously i read what James Madison wrote and that is exactly what i hope for. I dont want meaningless wins being 5-11 or 6-10 and have the 8th pick. We need a stud and more draft picks. Having the 1st pick could really change this whole team by doing what James said. Id love to get the Dolphins 12th pick and 2nd rounder. Draft Juedy and 2 O Lineman. Then the rest of the draft and free agency to add some more pieces and this team really could ve a worst to 1st type of team. Oh ya we also need to fire Gruden asap. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

5 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

Seriously i read what James Madison wrote and that is exactly what i hope for. I dont want meaningless wins being 5-11 or 6-10 and have the 8th pick. We need a stud and more draft picks. Having the 1st pick could really change this whole team by doing what James said. Id love to get the Dolphins 12th pick and 2nd rounder. Draft Juedy and 2 O Lineman. Then the rest of the draft and free agency to add some more pieces and this team really could ve a worst to 1st type of team. Oh ya we also need to fire Gruden asap. 

0-4 is certainly a good start. But I do fear that with our weaker back-half of the season schedule, that we could stumble our way into a 5-11 finish, esp. if Gruden is canned and someone like O'Connell and Ray Horton take over play-calling duties and turn things around a bit and light a fire. There's a lot of talent on this team, and it's clearly being undercoached and underperforming.

 

The OL presumably will improve as the season goes on. Terry and the young WRs will progress. The defense absolutely HAS to improve. Bruce Allen getting canned could lead to Trent coming back ... if we even want him. And Guice returning at some point could provide a spark in the run-game.

 

Personally I see 4-12. And that could get us #2 ... or it could get us #6. Either way, you get some serious talent at #6. But I think this team needs an overhaul of top-tier talent and holding a lottery ticket in a premier QB draft would really pay dividends. Sometimes being bad at the right time could be the spark to turning things around. And I actually applaud what Miami is doing. They see a chance to suck for 1-2 years and really reload talent to make a run when Tom retires and the AFC East opens up a bit more. I do like the last couple drafts that we've had and think there are some good talent evaluators in the front office, and think we have a lot of talent on defense ... so it's a bit of a pipe-dream to think we could get #1. But losing to NE and Miami would go a long-way to getting there I guess.

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

- Payne and Settle are definite keepers.

- Allen is a keeper.

- Sweat is hopefully a keeper too.

- Dunbar is a keeper

 

That's what I've got.

 

These are the good role players I wouldn't be in a hurry to replace, but that we could certainly upgrade if we get the chance:

- Nicholson and Collins

- Ioannidis

 

- Kerrigan should be traded

 

- Everyone else on the defense is completely replaceable.

 

 

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

They've got #11 from Stanford as a top six pick?

 

Eh... I think there might be some bad groupthink going on at draftnetwork.  That guy is not that good.  I get that he's big and can play the ball, but he is stiff hipped and trips over his own feet trying to transition from his backpedal.  No click and close twitch either.  He's a big, goofy-footed corner with balance issues.  He isn't even close to being as good as Diggs or Okudah IMO.

 

He didn’t seem to trouble the gifted WRs at USC.

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just for fun, I predicted each game for the ROS across the NFL. Obv. a total crapshoot, but here's what I got ...

 

Draft Order:

1. Miami (1-15)

2. Washington (1-15)

3. Denver (1-15)

4. Miami (from Pit. 3-13)

5. Cincinnati (3-13)

6. Jacksonville (4-12)

7. NY Jets (4-12)

8. Arizona (3-12-1)

9. Oakland (5-11)

10. Atlanta (6-10)

11. NY Giants (6-10)

12. Minnesota (7-9)

13. Carolina (8-8)

14. Indianapolis (9-7)

15. Miami (from Ind. 9-7)

16. Buffalo (9-7)

17. LA Charger (9-7)

18. Tampa Bay (9-7)

19. Seattle (9-7)

20. Tennessee (10-6)

21. Chicago (10-6)

22. New Orleans (10-6)

23. San Francisco (10-6)

24. Baltimore (11-5)

25. Cleveland (11-5)

26. Green Bay (11-5)

27. Philadelphia (11-5)

28. Dallas (11-5)

29. Detroit (11-4-1)

20. LA Rams (12-4)

31. Kansas City (15-1)

32. New England (16-0)

 

With parody, this is pretty hard to see playing out. I don't think Denver goes 1-15 ... and there's a lot of jumble between 8-8 and 10-6 ... but this gives some sense in where things could play out. I'd trade #2 to Cincy for #5, their 2nd and a 2020 1st for sure.

 

[volsmet]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just watched a couple of Young's games.  And that dude is on almost every play creating pressure or at the very least making the QB uncomfortable.  He's fast, explosive, can get low with really good bend and can dip around blockers, has a high motor, knows how to close and finish the sack.  He seems decent against the run if the play comes his way but also can get washed out of run plays.  They even dropped him a couple of times into coverage.  He's probably my top early man crush.   I didn't really study his hands yet but from what I can tell, he has a wicked swim move, strong hands.   He doesn't just run by guys in an arc (though he does love to do that) but also has slippery hands and can work through the inside, too.    Lot to love IMO. 

 

DeMatha Fomo is building. I’m all in on Young & I don’t particularly care for Edge guys in the new era of nfl football where Von Miller & Chubb go 3 weeks without a sack ... playing for the same team, but Chase is makes other 5 star talents look average. 

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

I'm sure we'll be drafting above the Giants!

 

 

 

Going to need Danny Dimes to get the Giants to 7 wins +. No Jeudy for you.

[volsmet]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

some talk here on PFF, here are the defensive grades thus far

 

 

 

That’s about what I thought it would look like heading into the year, though I hoped Cassanova may have provided more spark after a few flashes in the preseason. I wish we’d been able to nab Taco Charlton, he’s looked good for the phins. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, dballer said:

 

I would add that Holcombe has a chance to play his way into role players I wouldn't be in a hurry to replace if he progresses throughout the year.

 

Moreland also.

 

 

I want to like Holcomb but the early returns have been troubling.  Not only has he been bad, he's been soft too.  I'm not sure we have anything in him yet.  And he's not the youngest of highest upside prospect either.

 

Moreland is worth a wait and see.  He wouldn't stop me from drafting anybody, but I'm not completely turning over the cornerback group in one offseason.

 

Norman needs to go, and I'm losing patience with the Moreau project.

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

Could you imagine if we went 1-15 and had the #1 pick? Trade it to the Dolphins for #2, #12 (Steelers) and a 2nd? Man.

 

There are few things, including my family, that I think of more. Add a Trent trade & we could find ourselves with 3 first rounders. 

 

Shenault or Higgins, Wirfs, & Diggs. Let’s go. 

[Going Commando]

16 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

 

 

He didn’t seem to trouble the gifted WRs at USC.

 

 

He got picked on in the Oregon State game too.  I'm not even seeing a day two guy in him TBH.  Don't see good route or play recognition.  Don't see an ability to pattern match.  Don't see any click and close speed whatsoever, and truthfully his zone coverages are not good.  Don't see physicality either when a big corner like him should be a force in run defense.  Okudah is skinnier than him but so much more willing and active against the run.  Don't see the kind of fluid athleticism  and competitiveness of a good man corner either.

 

maybe his junior film is way better than what he's shown this year.  But it's actually kind of laughable to project him as a first round pick based on what I've seen from him this season.

[volsmet]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He got picked on in the Oregon State game too.  I'm not even seeing a day two guy in him TBH.  Don't see good route or play recognition.  Don't see an ability to pattern match.  Don't see any click and close speed whatsoever, and truthfully his zone coverages are not good. 

 

Sounds like a young Martrell Spaight. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

some talk here on PFF, here are the defensive grades thus far

 

Thank you for posting that.  I didn't realize they gave coverage grades to the DTs.  That seems kind of like a waste of their time.  But there is some real insight into our defensive performance in those grades.

 

- The grades of Io, Kerrigan, Norman, and Bostic are just backbreaking given their snap counts.  Io needs to freaking justify that extension real soon.  Norman is cooked.  Kerrigan needs to be traded for whatever we can get, he no longer fits into a window of competitiveness that we might have.

- Moreland and Holcomb are playing way too many snaps and they are drowning.  This is not good...

- SDH should clearly be starting and playing more snaps.

- Ryan Anderson having our best pass rushing grade among the people who've played more than a handful of snaps is a major indictment of the performance of the group.  It explains the awful performance of the D as a whole (and particularly on third down) more than any other metric.  It really strengthens the argument for Chase Young too.

- Collins is going to have to play a lot better to justify his money.  That grade needs to end up at least in the upper 70's for the season.

[Skinsinparadise]

Here's offense

 

 

[Going Commando]

15 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Sounds like a young Martrell Spaight.  

 

I think I know what they were thinking when they got married to Adebo: Richard Sherman.  That uniform and that build.  His posture even kind of looks like Sherman's.  But that's where the comparisons end for me.

 

Sherman himself was a day three guy though.  I'm willing to leave open the possibility that I'm wrong about this guy's ceiling and that there is something there in the junior film which suggests much greater potential in the right system.  But I'm not yet willing to accept that I'm wrong about him being a way worse prospect than Diggs and Okudah.  There are actually quite a few corners I like a lot better than Adebo.

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Here's offense

 

 

 

If McLaurin could become a legit #1, we add Shenault, Lamb, Higgins, or one of the Bama guys ... keep Scherff, develop Flowers into a good lg, and find our LT... and add Guice with Love to this offense.... oh yes, I can see the light. 

 

Based on a Trent trade & a trade down from #1, I’m huffing the hopium this morning:

 

Offense 2020:

 

Mclaurin  Sims     Wirfs Flowers Chase Scherff Moses Bryant   Higgins

                    

                                                          Haskins Guice

 

 

I don’t know where Bryant is projected, the TE out of UW, but I am intrigued by his raw machismo.

 

A luxury first rounder that I’m falling hard for is Simmons, he’s made for today’s nfl, he consumes space in a hurry and disengages from blocks well from what I’ve seen in 2019. Foster & Simmons in the middle, behind Payne/Allen/Settle could be what finally makes a qb uncomfortable v our beloved Redskins. Simmons can rush as an edge, cover, looks good in zone & man, he’s explosive. 

 

We need to move Trent badly, we can’t miss on a first for 20 games of Trent on a roster that’s not ready to compete. Frustrating.

 

What a draft class this is, absolutely ridiculous.

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Here's offense

 

Look at the quarterbacks.  Are we sure that Gruden can coach the position?  I thought he could, but what if it was McVay and LaFleur?

 

Ryan Anderson actually has value on offense...

 

Losing Guice was clearly a killer blow.  He would probably be our best offensive player this year if he hadn't gone down.

 

The receiver play has been a pleasant surprise.  It's not great, but it's not horrible.

 

Donald Penn and Ereck Flowers have been about as good as can be expected for a makeshift left side.  Roullier has been passable.  Moses is a complete bum.  Scherff is excellent.  And Wes Martin had a really bad day.

 

God Almighty our tight end play has been bad.

 

Adrian Peterson has low-key been killing us.  Look at that blocking grade.  I was wrong about him, he shouldn't have been brought back for this season.

[volsmet]

Norman has entrepreneurial spirit, *are we certain he’s not an agent for the WRs he’s gone up against, it would explain a lot. 

 

*

Montez Sweat appears to have a choke fetish, he lumbers off the line and grabs throat immediately.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Firing Bruce and Co. may get Trent to come back, but tbh this is the time to deal him. At 0-4 he brings virtually no value to this season, and if we can get any value for him we certainly should. The Patriots should be ringing our phone off the hook offering us a pair of 2nds or their 1st.

 

That would IMO make LT the absolutely biggest need this off-season. We could also use an upgrade at OC, but those can come fairly cheap in the draft (unless you want elite, you can get long-term starters in the 3rd-5th range). And we still have a couple TBD guys with Martin and Pierschbacher who need a year or two to develop.

 

WR is a need obviously. But I do think Scary Terry's emergence has maybe masked how big of a need. But certainly, a Jerry Jeudy in the Top 5 would be very tempting ... though we would need to have another 1st  rounder (via trade down) to get another LT, or have Trent back on an extension (buying a bit more time for his replacement).

 

Moses has looked like poo at RT. He's been decent in the past, but you could certainly upgrade him and move on from his big money via FA or the draft (maybe Christian slides to RT).

 

WR, LT, CB, Edge, TE --- that would be my priority. I still think ILB is solid going forward with Foster coming back and SDH progressing.

 

I'm crossing my fingers we found a diamond in the rough in Noah Spence. I loved him coming out of WKU and clearly he didn't deliver in TB, but he's looked good for us. That would be a bonus find long-term, but you can never have too many Edge rushers, so I woulnd't be opposed to adding another.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Pipe Dream Way Too Early hope: Go 2-14 ... everyone gets canned. Make Smith the GM (Or Riddick) and get an offensive guru to build an offense that will fit Haskins well. Miami beats us in Week 6 and stumbles into another W along the way to finish with the #2. Pittsburgh gets to 5-6 wins and the #12 pick.

 

Trade Trent for a 2+3 from someone like NE (later round picks obv.) ASAP

Get #1 pick. Trade to Miami for #2 and #12 so they can draft Tua. Trade #2 to Cincy for #6, their 2nd, 3rd and a 2020 1st so they can draft Herbert or Fromm.

 

You have two early 1st round picks to spend on elite WR and LT.

 

You go from 0 to two 2nd round picks and add two 3rds to finish with 2, 2, 3, 3, 3 on Day 2 and use those picks to address a plethora of needs at IOL, TE, CB, Edge, ILB ... use rest of draft to fill out other needs or trade for some 2020 picks.

 

Go into 2020 with a young, retooled offense to build around Haskins and two 1st rounders in 2020 to add talent at TBD positions.

 

Because i have zero faith in the ownership and management, I fully expect this to not come remotely close to happening. But as I said, Pipe Dream. It's all I have to look forward to now.

[Skinsinparadise]

Another reason why we need Chase Young 😀

 

 

 

[volsmet]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Another reason why we need Chase Young 😀

 

 

 

 

I don’t even spell my name correctly 87% of the time. Holy 🤨

[Going Commando]

21 minutes ago, volsmet said:

If McLaurin could become a legit #1, we add Shenault, Lamb, Higgins, or one of the Bama guys ...

 

I love the potential of this WR class both in the first round range as well as later on in the class.  This feels like a good year to double dip on the position.  I'm thinking the three guys you named plus at least two Bama receivers plus Wallace and Raegor as top 30-40 guys.  That is quite a lot talent and the day two and three guys from USC and Texas are also good prospects.

 

But a lot of the depth will come down to which underclassmen declare.  I can't remember if Waddle is draft eligible but either way I think he'll stay in school.  And I could see one of Smith or Ruggs staying too.  So looking ahead to 2021, you'd have perhaps two of the Bama guys plus Justyn Ross, Rondale Moore, Ja'Marr Chase, and Washington from Wake Forest in that first round class.  If we miss out on the very top end of this WR class, then next year is going to be a really really good top end class too.  Maybe even better truth be told.

 

I haven't watched his cut ups yet, but I was watching Shenault during a game and I was struggling to come up with who he reminded me of.  Boldin?  I don't want to keep comparing everyone to DeAndre Hopkins, but maybe a little of him?