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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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It is so sad that I'm thinking so much about the draft in 6 months ... when we are entering Week 5. But I can't get excited about much else and all I can think about is what happens if we get pick #1 in a loaded QB class. So bear with me, but hopefully this excites you as much as me.

 

Pie-in-the-sky results from 2019 season and 2020 draft:

- Trade Trent to NE for Patriots 2nd and 3rd after we start 0-5

- Finish the season 2-14 and end up with the #1 pick just ahead of Miami (2-14), CIncinnati (3-13) and Denver (4-12)

- Draft unfolds as follows, assuming rough draft-order given current standings and moving Skins from current #3 pick to #1 for sake of this exercise

 

Draft:

- Trade #1 pick to Miami for #2 and #7 (from Pittsburgh), 3rd

- Trade #2 pick to Oakland for #13, #24 (Chicago), 2nd and 2020 1st

 

Draft starts:

1. Miami - Tua

2. Las Vegas - Herbert

3. Cincy - Fromm

4. Broncos - Jeudy

5. Jets - Young

6. Arizona - Thomas

 

 

#7: Tristan Wirfs, LT Iowa

#13: A.J. Epenesa, EDGE Iowa

#24: Henry Ruggs, WR Alabama

2nd (OAK): Jared Pinkney, TE Vanderbilt

2nd (NE): Top CB Available

3rd: Top G/C

3rd (MIA): Top RT

3rd (NE): Top CB Available

 

This would essentially allow for a full re-set in one off-season and build talent at key positions for the long-term. Plus go into 2020 with 2 1sts

 

Wirfs = Trent replacement

Epenesa - Kerrigan replacement

Ruggs + McLaurin

 

get a RT to replace Moses long-term

Get a C to compete with Roullier/Piershbacher

Get 2 young CBs to compete with Moreau, Dunbar, Moreland to remake the CB

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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28 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

God I hope we don't pick Tua.  I can't stand the thought of dooming both him and Haskins in back to back drafts.  It would be a crime against football.

 

The premise of that article is amusing to me.  I live in South Florida and read the local papers and the Dolphins reporters keep claiming the owner, Ross, is obsessed with Tua.  And a big part of their tanking is about landing Tua.

 

So the article talked about the Dolphins doing whatever it takes in a trade to the Redskins if the Redskins have the top pick.  Granted its all just theory right now.  But I'd love to see that go down. 

 

It won't be fun to see a season that's awful to the degree where they land the #1 pick.  But I think they will be better for it.  Yes, its not the NBA.  Still if they can get multiple #1's, #2's whatever from a desperate Dolphins or whomever (especially in this draft)-- it could be one of the best things thats ever happened to this team.  It would put Dan on the fast track to the rebuild that he's only been willing to do half way. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I am tuning into Utah State.  If Love lives up to some of this hype, we might get a bounty in a trade if we get either the #1 or #2 pick.  I've seen enough of Tua to get a handle on him.  I know nothing about Love aside from the ones that are smitten by him say he stylistically reminds them of Mahomes.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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 Love doesn't immediately jump at me but maybe am missing it plus its only one game for me watching him.  He does move around the pocket well. 

 

Looking like Taylor and Swift might end up both top 15 picks at RB.  Maybe also Etienne.  Too bad we don't need a RB, looks like there is some special talent on that front.

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

God I hope we don't pick Tua.  I can't stand the thought of dooming both him and Haskins in back to back drafts.  It would be a crime against football.

 

This is depressing, Tua is a pretty good QB prospect but it does make you wonder. Is there any rookie QB that can survive and find maintained success under this organization? 

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1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

This is depressing, Tua is a pretty good QB prospect but it does make you wonder. Is there any rookie QB that can survive and find maintained success under this organization? 

 

Tua is an outstanding prospect.  I love him.  Haskins was an outstanding prospect that I love too.  A well run organization would absolutely develop these kids into good NFL QBs.  But there are two NFL truisms that apply to us: Franchise QBs are made and not found, and bad franchises don't make franchise QBs.  I have serious doubts that we are the kind of organization that can successfully develop and keep a franchise QB.  Haskins is a test for our organization.

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Looking like Taylor and Swift might end up both top 15 picks at RB.  Maybe also Etienne.  Too bad we don't need a RB, looks like there is some special talent on that front.

 

I wouldn't be so sure we don't need a RB.  The futures of Guice and Love are far from certain given their injury histories.  Without them, we have arguably the worst RB group in the NFL.  Definitely one of the worst run games.  The team is so devoid of talent, if we have a shot at an elite RB prospect, we should take it.

 

We're going to pick too high to target Taylor or Etienne or Swift in the first round though.  Have to trade down or trade a player to get into their range.  I'm also not convinced that they go in the first round yet either.  My gut is that Taylor and Swift will be in the teens to twenties and Etienne goes in the second.

 

I think either Swift or Taylor as the first punch in a one two punch with Love/Guice could be devastating--with the right coach and system.  I don't think Jay is that coach though.  He's just not good with the run game and I definitely don't think he can get the most out of a workhorse like Jonathan Taylor.  That would be a wasted pick if Jay survives the year.  I also think that Taylor needs to bring Biadasz along with him where ever he goes.  That guy deserves a big share of Taylor's awards.

 

Good depth in this year's RB class.  Najee Harris and AJ Dillon are freaking studs.  The second runner that Alabama has is a beast too, but not sure if he's draft eligible.  Feaster at SC is good.  Benjamin at ASU is too.  Hubbard and Dobbins are worth looking at.  I wasn't really blown away by Kylin Hill in the Auburn game I watched, but I know he was hot coming into that game.There are probably at least 8 backs in this class who will make good NFL players.  We need to come away with one of them IMO.  I really like Dillon and Harris for us in particular.

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One more thing about Swift: I'm almost convinced that he's too explosive.  His cuts are so incredibly violent that I can't imagine he's not doing cumulative soft tissue damage with them.  He's kind of small too.  I'm trying to figure out how to judge biomechanics in order to project whether a guy has a more sustainable body and style of play for the next level because of how unbelievably bad our injury situation has been the past several years.

 

My theory with Swift is that the thing that makes him such a breathtaking runner today is also going to shorten his career in the long term.  His weight is often hanging very far over his knees when he makes those freak of nature cuts.

 

At the same time, if Swift is still sitting there in the early second round and we've got a pick in that range, you've got to pick him right?

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7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Tua is an outstanding prospect.  I love him.  Haskins was an outstanding prospect that I love too.  A well run organization would absolutely develop these kids into good NFL QBs.  But there are two NFL truisms that apply to us: Franchise QBs are made and not found, and bad franchises don't make franchise QBs.  I have serious doubts that we are the kind of organization that can successfully develop and keep a franchise QB.  Haskins is a test for our organization.

I'm with you 100% here, it's one of the reasons why I've already kind of given up on the idea that Haskins will be a franchise QB. It has nothing to do with him, this team is just that dysfunctional that it wouldn't even have been able to develop a QB like Mahomes let alone Haskins. KC and Reid molded Mahomes, he had the foundation but without the organizational support he had, it's likely we never see the dominant player he is today.

 

Do you think if we have the chance to draft Tua we have to pass on him even though he's an outstanding prospect?

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Do you think if we have the chance to draft Tua we have to pass on him even though he's an outstanding prospect? 

 

Tua is going to be the first overall pick.  If we get that choice, I definitely think we should use him to trade down.  I am 100% convinced that's our best move.

 

I love Tua but quarterback is a yes or no proposition in the draft.  The grade doesn't matter that much.  So let's say I grade Tua a 7.5 as a prospect and I grade Haskins a 7.0.  In that case they are both "yes."  I get far more value out of trading down and stockpiling multiple firsts/seconds than taking the marginal upgrade at QB and throwing away Haskins when he's a yes too.

 

A good organization would actually have the development of Haskins underway and would grade every QB in the first two days a "no" as a result.

 

You and I share the same fear--that no QB prospect will become a franchise player here no matter how good a prospect he is, because of how fundamentally unstable and bad this organization is.  I absolutely agree with you that Mahomes wouldn't have panned out here.  He was a project and took proper development and I have no doubt he wouldn't have become anywhere near as good with us as he is in Kansas City.  I bet we would have ruined him.  Think of how much poorer the league would have been if we'd gotten him instead of KC.  That's part of why I don't want to see Tua end up here.  He is such a good prospect and he has a great chance at becoming an NFL star and I would absolutely hate to see him get ruined immediately upon the heels of ruining another terrific prospect in Haskins.  That'd be three blue chip QB prospects flushed down the toilet in less than a decade.  That's a travesty.

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I'm watching a replay of a classic game between Oregon and Cal in 2004 on a Pac-12 Network and it is cracking me up to see Aaron Rodgers play Jeff Tedford quarterback.  My God I feel like I'm watching leatherheads era football, the game has changed so much.  His drops and hitches are cartoonishly robotic and the way he keeps the ball ****ed at his earhole... I barely see any of the creativity and style that made him famous in the NFL.  Coaches used to be so freaking rigid.  The game has become infinitely looser over the past 15 years, but the change has been gradual.

 

Lorenzo Alexander, JJ Arrington, and Marshawn Lynch were all on this team too.  Kellen Clemens was the QB on the Oregon side.

 

The uniforms are bizarrely shiny.

 

And the game was so much more violent and dirty.  Safeties just launching with their helmets like the Rocketeer at the helmets of falling receivers and tight ends going for catches in the middle of the field.

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9 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

Good depth in this year's RB class.  Najee Harris and AJ Dillon are freaking studs.  The second runner that Alabama has is a beast too, but not sure if he's draft eligible.  Feaster at SC is good.  Benjamin at ASU is too.  Hubbard and Dobbins are worth looking at.  I wasn't really blown away by Kylin Hill in the Auburn game I watched, but I know he was hot coming into that game.There are probably at least 8 backs in this class who will make good NFL players.  We need to come away with one of them IMO.  I really like Dillon and Harris for us in particular.

 

I haven’t watched much FSU, but Cam Akers was among the best Hs RBs I’ve ever seen, I’d be interested in seeing where he’s projected, if he does declare.

 

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9 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

One more thing about Swift: I'm almost convinced that he's too explosive.  His cuts are so incredibly violent that I can't imagine he's not doing cumulative soft tissue damage with them.  He's kind of small too. 

 

Swift has been trained, for years, to be a professional rb. It’s been his fathers objective for years, and his pops knows how to train athletes, he’s obsessive about it. He may not hold up, but I’d take the risk knowing he’s trained, as he has, for a decade.

 

*What a photograph - poppa Swift:

 

04EDB12C-6359-4299-A4B8-6CF1B989926C.jpeg

Edited by volsmet
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14 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I wouldn't be so sure we don't need a RB.  The futures of Guice and Love are far from certain given their injury histories.  Without them, we have arguably the worst RB group in the NFL.  Definitely one of the worst run games.  The team is so devoid of talent, if we have a shot at an elite RB prospect, we should take it.

 

We're going to pick too high to target Taylor or Etienne or Swift in the first round though.  Have to trade down or trade a player to get into their range.  I'm also not convinced that they go in the first round yet either.  My gut is that Taylor and Swift will be in the teens to twenties and Etienne goes in the second.

 

I think either Swift or Taylor as the first punch in a one two punch with Love/Guice could be devastating--with the right coach and system.  I don't think Jay is that coach though.  He's just not good with the run game and I definitely don't think he can get the most out of a workhorse like Jonathan Taylor.  That would be a wasted pick if Jay survives the year.  I also think that Taylor needs to bring Biadasz along with him where ever he goes.  That guy deserves a big share of Taylor's awards.

 

Good depth in this year's RB class.  Najee Harris and AJ Dillon are freaking studs.  The second runner that Alabama has is a beast too, but not sure if he's draft eligible.  Feaster at SC is good.  Benjamin at ASU is too.  Hubbard and Dobbins are worth looking at.  I wasn't really blown away by Kylin Hill in the Auburn game I watched, but I know he was hot coming into that game.There are probably at least 8 backs in this class who will make good NFL players.  We need to come away with one of them IMO.  I really like Dillon and Harris for us in particular.

The devoid of team talent is why I can't see taking a RB early, too many holes must be addressed in other areas. If there are still medical issues with Love and/or Guice then grab a late rounder or FA. I must say however intrigued by Etienne and thanks to this thread, Swift. I am more in favor of if they can accumulate 2 first rounders they try for Thomas or Wirfs and then add Biadasz. They would help the would RB's and QB.

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14 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Good depth in this year's RB class.  Najee Harris and AJ Dillon are freaking studs.  The second runner that Alabama has is a beast too, but not sure if he's draft eligible.  Feaster at SC is good.  Benjamin at ASU is too.  Hubbard and Dobbins are worth looking at.  I wasn't really blown away by Kylin Hill in the Auburn game I watched, but I know he was hot coming into that game.There are probably at least 8 backs in this class who will make good NFL players.  We need to come away with one of them IMO.  I really like Dillon and Harris for us in particular.

 

Good stuff.  Right now am casually watching college football games and haven't delved deep, yet.    With running backs at this stage, I just like the guys who hit me without having to think too hard.  Etienne is like that for me among the others I mentioned. 

 

As for running backs. Etienne just casually watching him, has that video game feel to me.   He does the quick cutting thing without too much dancing.  He's explosive, great speed -- home run guy.  He can get skinny-fit through small creases -- slippery.   He can cut through trash -- he's a different runner but in that regard he reminds me of Dalvin Cook -- who I had a massive man crush on years back. 

 

He's a bit small and can improve pass catching though.  But yeah if they got him in the 2nd, based on what I've seen I'd like it.  If I had to pick my favorite though it's Swift.  He looks like a superstar. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Tua is going to be the first overall pick.  If we get that choice, I definitely think we should use him to trade down.  I am 100% convinced that's our best move.

 

I love Tua but quarterback is a yes or no proposition in the draft.  The grade doesn't matter that much.  So let's say I grade Tua a 7.5 as a prospect and I grade Haskins a 7.0.  In that case they are both "yes."  I get far more value out of trading down and stockpiling multiple firsts/seconds than taking the marginal upgrade at QB and throwing away Haskins when he's a yes too.

 

 

I'd have to agree but with some cognitive dissonance.  My position on Haskins is much closer to @volsmet take then it is to yours.  But I love Haskins the person.  And rooting hard for Haskins to be the guy.   So am rooting hard for you to be right on him.

 

Tua I've seen multiple times play in person.  He's been my man crush at QB for years.   I have more faith in him being a franchise QB than Haskins.  My main fear with Tua is his durability.    Ideally, we'd obviously want Haskins be a franchise QB and build the rest of the roster around him. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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5 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Swift has been trained, for years, to be a professional rb. It’s been his fathers objective for years, and his pops knows how to train athletes, he’s obsessive about it. He may not hold up, but I’d take the risk knowing he’s trained, as he has, for a decade.

 

That actually doesn't give me relief.  This is counterintuitive, but one of the things I've learned about sports like basketball and football is that many kids probably start the games too young.  In some ways it's good to build the key muscle groups from a young age.  But ESPN wrote a story about the drastic increase orthopedic doctors have seen in kids as young as 11 coming in with bad backs and/or knees.

 

It's almost to the point where you'd rather see a kid come into these sports from different ones like baseball and soccer later on in their childhoods.  I believe this is because other sports don't put the sheering forces on joints and **** up your knees and feet like basketball and football.  It's better to let a child's body grow naturally before subjecting to them to the forces of the new sport as well as the trauma and acute injuries that are endemic to football.

 

That sheering force is what worries me about D'Andre Swift's cuts.  The only time I've seen cuts like that were with backs like Ameer Abdullah, Jahvid Best, Reggie Bush, and Noel Devine.  All of those guys had significant health issues by the time they reached the NFL.  I think a lot of it can be attributed to their biomechanical style of play.  I just don't see how it's possible to have your cuts be that freakishly sudden and explosive without putting a ton of stress on the bones and tissue of your feet and knees.

 

Swift is going to come into the draft process with a narrative that his durability should be taken for granted because of how light his career usage has been.  The tread on his tires argument.  I'm saying I wouldn't trust that.  A graceful, easy running style like Najee Harris's might be much more sustainable long term.  And I wouldn't be scared off high usage runners like Dillon and Taylor either because what they do looks very sustainable to me too.

 

But at a certain point in the draft Swift's freakish talent overrides the injury risk.  To me that point is at the end of the first or beginning of the second.

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13 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Tua is going to be the first overall pick.  If we get that choice, I definitely think we should use him to trade down.  I am 100% convinced that's our best move.

 

I love Tua but quarterback is a yes or no proposition in the draft.  The grade doesn't matter that much.  So let's say I grade Tua a 7.5 as a prospect and I grade Haskins a 7.0.  In that case they are both "yes."  I get far more value out of trading down and stockpiling multiple firsts/seconds than taking the marginal upgrade at QB and throwing away Haskins when he's a yes too.

 

A good organization would actually have the development of Haskins underway and would grade every QB in the first two days a "no" as a result.

 

You and I share the same fear--that no QB prospect will become a franchise player here no matter how good a prospect he is, because of how fundamentally unstable and bad this organization is.  I absolutely agree with you that Mahomes wouldn't have panned out here.  He was a project and took proper development and I have no doubt he wouldn't have become anywhere near as good with us as he is in Kansas City.  I bet we would have ruined him.  Think of how much poorer the league would have been if we'd gotten him instead of KC.  That's part of why I don't want to see Tua end up here.  He is such a good prospect and he has a great chance at becoming an NFL star and I would absolutely hate to see him get ruined immediately upon the heels of ruining another terrific prospect in Haskins.  That'd be three blue chip QB prospects flushed down the toilet in less than a decade.  That's a travesty.

 

I also think trading down is a very good move for the organization if they happen to land the 1st pick. I just can't shake the fact that I know Tua is going to be a great QB so seeing us pass him up to watch him be successful elsewhere will be difficult. It's a damn shame that Haskins is in the middle of a tug of war competition right now between Snyder and Gruden. We all wanted Gruden to develop him but that was probably never his plan, so now his development is inevitably stalled, and who knows who our next coaching staff would be. I really hope players start Eli'ing the Redskins in the draft, that will send a strong message to the NFL. I've often questioned why I even support the team when I know they're such a mess that things will never change with the FO that we have. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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21 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

I also think trading down is a very good move for the organization if they happen to land the 1st pick. I just can't shake the fact that I know Tua is going to be a great QB so seeing us pass him up to watch him be successful elsewhere will be difficult. It's a damn shame that Haskins is in the middle of a tug of war competition right now between Snyder and Gruden. We all wanted Gruden to develop him but that was probably never his plan, so now his development is inevitably stalled, and who knows who our next coaching staff would be. I really hope players start Eli'ing the Redskins in the draft, that will send a strong message to the NFL. I've often questioned why I even support the team when I know they're such a mess that things will never change with the FO that we have. 

Long time lurker here and just now starting to post here but one thing to think about is if we get say the #1 or #2 overall pick then whomever we trade to can determine where we pick in 2021. We all know this is more than likely a multi year build so even though we pass on a qb this year we could be set up in 2021 for a top qb and possibly Lawrence from Clemson.  Of course as we all know that's all depending on who the GM is and I have no faith in Bruce being gone or if so Danny boy hiring a competent GM

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15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

the irony is the last time at was at Hard Rock stadium (Dolphins stadium) was to see Tua play in the Orange Bowl.  Maybe it's prophetic that i am back next Sunday for the Tua Bowl. 😀

If we somehow manage to get the first pick I'm really torn. We would be in position to trade and pick up a bounty of picks, setting us up to rebuild our line with actual NFL talent and add to some key positions on defense.  Then we roll with Haskins in 2020 and see how he develops with a new staff. If he doesn't progress and ends up flopping we'll hopefully be in position to grab the new coaches qb in 2021.  

 

Flip side to this is Tua is the real deal. He is by far the best player in this years draft. I've been watching this kid since his high school recruitment and trust me he has all the tools to be great. If I could compare him to a current player its definitely Bress.  Very hard to pass on such a talented player.  Bottom line is we are at the point of no return now. For the sake of the future of this team we need no worse than the #3 pick.  I'm at the point where I just want to tank for the 1st overall pick. 

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