2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[volsmet]

13 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 I think ILB was addressed with Rueben Foster, they threw 2 picks at guard and are moving Fisher to the position so they addressed that with a mass approach so that is why I removed them from the top three needs at this point (which probably won't reflect reality come next year).

 

Ah, indeed, I was thinking of years in terms of pre draft 2019 v 2020. We still need help at ilb, but the addition of Foster is probably the most significant one we’ve made since May 2018. Guard .. I’m hopeful about, I just want us to make the middle of the pocket as clear as possible for our young QB - I look forward to seeing what the new moves look like next to Trent. 

[Anselmheifer]

44 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 I think ILB was addressed with Rueben Foster, they threw 2 picks at guard and are moving Fisher to the position so they addressed that with a mass approach so that is why I removed them from the top three needs at this point (which probably won't reflect reality come next year).

 

I think the FO is generally pretty transparent about how they view our needs. They weren't sniffing around OT's at all this offseason. They gave off the impression that they wanted upgrades at QB, LG, WR, and edge, and upgraded all of those positions. They also were hot and heavy after CJ Mosley, even after signing Foster. Then they drafted Cole Holcomb. I don't imagine they view the ILB position as settled, and they are smart for taking that position. SDH has never demonstrated an ability to stay healthy. Foster is injury and suspension prone. Mason Foster runs like the Stay Puft Marshmallow man, or a really muscular toddler. 

 

I think that next year we will be looking for a WR1, CB1, and also OT, because Trent and Moses will again show that they can't stay healthy. I also think we will consider FS and ILB and interior line. 

 

In point of fact, this team has a lot less holes than it did a year ago. We are however going to need to replace our aging/injured/expensive players in Norman, Trent, Moses, and even Kerrigan, at some point. Thank God for Kerrigan's durability and reliability. 

 

 

[volsmet]

We’re a phone booth team right now.

 

[Anselmheifer]

25 minutes ago, volsmet said:

We’re a phone booth team right now.

 

 

I agree 100%. If Love comes back to 2017 form, he will give us a lot of explosion. To some degree, I think a team has to play and draft to it's strengths, but to a larger degree, a successful team has to realize in what decade it is playing. Teams have to be able to pass the ball now and defend the pass. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

12 hours ago, volsmet said:

If we end up in the top 5 and don’t have our answer at guard by the draft, I’d want to trade down with a team that has a young guard we like & get a pick. With Haskins my priority is protecting him. I’d be aggressive getting NFL talent now that we have our QB on a rookie contract. If Haskins is protected, every other player on our team improves - the WRs have more time to get open, the D gets more rest - & hopefully faces more predictable offenses as we put points up - & the running game obviously gets better with the threat of a passing game. Protecting the young cheap QB is priority 1 right now, imo. Watson & Luck are both very athletic & each have almost been killed early in their careers, I’d be eager to learn from the mistakes those teams made.

 

The top end talent in the draft, Tua, Delpit, Jeudy, Chase, Herbert, Fromm... they’ll have teams eager to trade up. I’d love to have Chase, Delpit or Jeudy, but if I can get a guard we love, move down & get Diggs, and add another pick.. I’d probably take it. 

 

If we miss on the top guys & have no guard, I’m thinking about Wirfs if he continues to develop. Plug Wirfs in & I’d feel pretty good.

 

 

I disagree about the use of a top 5 pick. We definitely need to protect Haskins, but if we pick in the top 5, we need to grab a dynamic talent. Whether that is Jeudy or Chase Young or Delpit, or whoever else is BPA. You only get so many opportunities at a Jeudy or a Chase young. We will have a million opportunities to grab a very good OG. I do think however that if there is a QB available when we pick, that we might get an offer that is hard to refuse. I also worry that could play out like the Kerrigan/Watt trade. 

I totally agree with you that a CB1 is a big need. We have a ton of solid talent at CB, but no real top tier guy. I also agree about Wirfs potentially being a great pick for us. 

[DWinzit]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I disagree about the use of a top 5 pick. We definitely need to protect Haskins, but if we pick in the top 5, we need to grab a dynamic talent. Whether that is Jeudy or Chase Young or Delpit, or whoever else is BPA. You only get so many opportunities at a Jeudy or a Chase young. We will have a million opportunities to grab a very good OG. I do think however that if there is a QB available when we pick, that we might get an offer that is hard to refuse. I also worry that could play out like the Kerrigan/Watt trade. 

I totally agree with you that a CB1 is a big need. We have a ton of solid talent at CB, but no real top tier guy. I also agree about Wirfs potentially being a great pick for us. 

Next years draft looks pretty loaded especially with some quality QB's and WR's,  like were not in this years draft. There will be numerous teams wanting to move up. If we are a top 5 pick there should be opportunity to drop back some while still grabbing a dynamic player at a need position and gaining valuable other picks to make up for the lack of a 2nd. This was been to FO's MO. If we selected between 6-15 next year it appears the top OT's and CB's would still be there along with some of the WR's (which I am not a big fan of drafting early) 

[volsmet]

8 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I disagree about the use of a top 5 pick. We definitely need to protect Haskins, but if we pick in the top 5, we need to grab a dynamic talent. Whether that is Jeudy or Chase Young or Delpit, or whoever else is BPA. You only get so many opportunities at a Jeudy or a Chase young. We will have a million opportunities to grab a very good OG. I do think however that if there is a QB available when we pick, that we might get an offer that is hard to refuse. I also worry that could play out like the Kerrigan/Watt trade. 

I totally agree with you that a CB1 is a big need. We have a ton of solid talent at CB, but no real top tier guy. I also agree about Wirfs potentially being a great pick for us. 

 

I’m typically in agreement with your disagreement; take the stud. 

 

It depends on the grades of course, but a top guard, who has proven himself in the NFL, opens so much for Haskins. I’ve watched Haskins v PSU, with multiple humans who do this professionally, & their concerns have me more bullish on a guard than I typically am... and I was already bigger proponent of emphasizing that position than 99.9999% of the humans. 

 

If we can move to 11, get a guard, and grab a guy with an elite grade, and another pick... that’s tough for me to pass on with Haskins at QB & a draft class as loaded as next years. If we prove fine protecting QB in 2019, then I’m probably taking the most gutted talent available. I’ve seen Haskins criticized harshly for staying on his first read too long, but his biggest strength, imo, is how quickly his eyes progress, even if his feet/hips don’t always get there, his eyes do, and that’s a special quality with that arm. He has 14 starts, or so, he is unlikely to get comfortable in the NFL if he’s not kept clean as a youngster imo.

 

 

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

I’m typically in agreement with your disagreement; take the stud. 

 

It depends on the grades of course, but a top guard, who has proven himself in the NFL, opens so much for Haskins. I’ve watched Haskins v PSU, with multiple humans who do this professionally, & their concerns have me more bullish on a guard than I typically am... and I was already bigger proponent of emphasizing that position than 99.9999% of the humans. 

 

If we can move to 11, get a guard, and grab a guy with an elite grade, and another pick... that’s tough for me to pass on with Haskins at QB & a draft class as loaded as next years. If we prove fine protecting QB in 2019, then I’m probably taking the most gutted talent available. I’ve seen Haskins criticized harshly for staying on his first read too long, but his biggest strength, imo, is how quickly his eyes progress, even if his feet/hips don’t always get there, his eyes do, and that’s a special quality with that arm. He has 14 starts, or so, he is unlikely to get comfortable in the NFL if he’s not kept clean as a youngster imo.

 

 

I disagree with your agreement of that disagreement. We should ahh ..........do hummmm........something.

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

If we can move to 11, get a guard, and grab a guy with an elite grade, and another pick... that’s tough for me to pass on with Haskins at QB & a draft class as loaded as next years. If we prove fine protecting QB in 2019, then I’m probably taking the most gutted talent available. I’ve seen Haskins criticized harshly for staying on his first read too long, but his biggest strength, imo, is how quickly his eyes progress, even if his feet/hips don’t always get there, his eyes do, and that’s a special quality with that arm. He has 14 starts, or so, he is unlikely to get comfortable in the NFL if he’s not kept clean as a youngster imo.

 

 

I suspect that this conversation will be entirely academic because I think we are going to pick between 13 and 17 next year. Our defense looks too good and there is no way we lose every QB on the roster again.

 

I actually feel better about interior OL than tackle.  Brandon Scherff had a freak injury. He never misses time and it isn't an injury that should cause long term issues. Roullier has been healthy/durable. I am really keeping my fingers crossed for Wes Martin. He's powerful and has more lower body explosion than you might think with a 28 inch vertical, which isn't bad for a 310 pound OG. Allowed very few sacks. 

At tackle, we could have big problems. Moses might not miss a lot of time, but he is always hurting. Trent misses time every year and has at least one more surgery every year. Father time is going to catch up. Maaaaybe Geron Christian has a chance to be a starter, but I thought he was a reach and he looks more like a quality career backup. We are going to need two starters sooner than later. It would be so huge for us if Bill Callahan could turn Ereck Flowers into a starting caliber RT. We'd be filling another upcoming need at a steal of a price. 

In any case, if we are top 5, I wouldn't pass on Jerry Jeudy if he's available. The talent is too good there. Haskins, Jeudy, Guice and Love could be a really good skill position core. That being said, in my heart of hearts, I want defense. Is it too much to want to add to the defense every year until we are a generational unit? We are so close to being so good. It's hard not wanting to see the defensive unit completed, even if I know that balancing the defense that we have with a better offense would probably bring more wins. I still don't think that we are yet to the the point of receiving decreasing returns on defensive investment. Not until we are better in the secondary and at LB. 

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

This play is crazy good. You have to watch the replay to fully appreciate it though. In the replay, you can better appreciate his balance as he almost falls down coming out of his cut, keeps his feet, explosively accelerates by the corner and then has to wait for the ball but is still able to jump over the corner and high point the football. The acceleration coming out of his break reminds me of DK Metcalf's acceleration blowing by the corner after he beats the press for the long completion against Alabama. 

 

Edit:

On 5/14/2019 at 3:13 PM, Burgundy Yoda said:

Really hoping one of our Receivers steps up and becomes the coveted #1 target we need. The thought of taking a WR in R1 does not ease the mind. I'd much rather go OL in the first honestly. 

 

It's depressing that we are still talking about Doctson and even more so that Richardson is our next best option. Paul Richardson is a 5 year vet, and in his best year caught 44 balls. In his second best year, he caught 29 balls. Last year wasn't an outlier. It was Richardson's normal. Here is a hot take, Doctson is better than Richardson. Look at their stats and consider the QB's and offensive units they played with and tell me that isn't so. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/paulrichardson/2543491/careerstats

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DoctJo00.htm

 

Our WR unit sucks. Despite adding McLaurin and Harmon, we still need huge investment here, whether through the draft or FA. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I haven't dived deep yet where I've watched these receivers that closely, I've watched Lamb from Oklahoma and the Alabama receivers a lot last year.  But purely based on hype-highlights-reputation this is looking like potentially a historic draft for receivers.  Lot of exciting prospects. 

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I haven't dived deep yet where I've watched these receivers that closely, I've watched Lamb from Oklahoma and the Alabama receivers a lot last year.  But purely based on hype-highlights-reputation this is looking like potentially a historic draft for receivers.  Lot of exciting prospects. 

 

 

 

As good as 2019 was for TE's it looks like 2020 may be similar. There were 7 drafted in the first 4 rounds and projections are the same in 2020.

Since I figure we will be drafting a TE in the top 3 rounds next year here are the top 8:

Okwuegbunan - Missouri 6'5" 260

Breeland -  Oregon 6'5" 240

Parkinson -  Stanford 6'7"  240

Calcateura -  Oklahoma 6'4" 221

Hopklins - Purdue 6'5" 245

Pinkney - Vanderbilt 6'5"  255 

Wilcox - South Florida 6'3' 250

Imatorbhebhe - USC 6'3" 240

 

Okwueg was projected as a first rounder this year until he decided to return to school.

I have seen any of the top 4 in the first round but never more than two of them  in the first.

I am keeping an eye on Pinkney who has good hands, good route runner and good blocker while projected between 2-4

 

BTW SIP, I thought it funny how Buffalo moved up in the 3rd trading us their 2 4ths for your guy Knox. That trade def worked for us even though Knox would have been a nice addition.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

And there's another...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Man, Reagor would be such a great fit with Haskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

BTW SIP, I thought it funny how Buffalo moved up in the 3rd trading us their 2 4ths for your guy Knox. That trade def worked for us even though Knox would have been a nice addition.

 

 

Agree.  I liked a bunch of TEs from that class.  Among them I liked Sample and I was surprised he went that early.  Sternberger went about where I thought he would.  Too bad we don't have a 2nd next year.  Maybe they trade down some.  Receiver position looks mega stacked.  I haven't really dived in to TE but good to hear that the position has promise. 

 

But yeah can't complain about adding a couple of 4ths.  Love was IMO a great pick -- touted him in 2017 before he decided not to enter the draft.  Explosive as heck.  He barely crossed my mind this year because of the injury -- didn't think they'd consider adding him considering their decent depth at RB and them being supposedly in win now mode. 

[volsmet]

I made a lengthy Reagor post, I love that kid, the WR class is extraordinary — and the one behind it ain’t bad either.

 

[Anselmheifer]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-jalen-reagor-jerry-jeudy-highlight-a-wr-class-that-should-break-the-2020-nfl-draft

 

The link above is must see. Reagor would look great on the Skins, but I think Jeudy is worth a trade up if we aren't high enough to draft him. He's Desean Jackson combined with Marvin Harrison. A generational talent. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

@Anselmheifer - I don’t think Scherff is as good as most here do, I don’t care much for Chase, & Wes has some talent, but he’s still just a 4th round rookie obviously. I have concerns about our tackles as well, I wanted to trade Trent, but he’s still an elite talent & Haskins is far more comfortable with edge pressure than anything up the middle — edge hits are also safer on a stationary QB than hits that result from a heavy footed QB trying to avoid pressure up the gut.

 

I’m more worried about Dwayne’s lack of experience than many seem to be, it’s just such a monumental ask ....to have him start 14 games for a team that only required an average depth of target at 8.8 & allowed almost no pressure .... to being in DC on a roster that’s down 1/8th of its cap due to Smiths injury. Now that we have young Haskins, I just want to see him given the best chance to succeed. Part of the reason I liked Lock is he’s an elite athlete — then Rosen moves incredibly well in the pocket & proved he can protect himself with a clueless bunch of bums. 

 

With QB life preached to me from the time I was 2, I am probably over protective of the position... I’ve heard too many mental horror stories of guys who couldn’t recover from big hits... the psychological aspect - trusting you’re safe - is difficult to handicap. 

 

*I think Jeudy is the guy we’re all in agreement on early. 

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, volsmet said:

@Anselmheifer - I don’t think Scherff is as good as most here do, I don’t care much for Chase, & Wes has some talent, but he’s still just a 4th round rookie obviously. I have concerns about our tackles as well, I wanted to trade Trent, but he’s still an elite talent & Haskins is far more comfortable with edge pressure than anything up the middle — edge hits are also safer on a stationary QB than hits that result from a heavy footed QB trying to avoid pressure up the gut.

 

I’m more worried about Dwayne’s lack of experience than many seem to be, it’s just such a monumental ask ....to have him start 14 games for a team that only required an average depth of target at 8.8 & allowed almost no pressure .... to being in DC on a roster that’s down 1/8th of its cap due to Smiths injury. Now that we have young Haskins, I just want to see him given the best chance to succeed. Part of the reason I liked Lock is he’s an elite athlete — then Rosen moves incredibly well in the pocket & proved he can protect himself with a clueless bunch of bums. 

 

With QB life preached to me from the time I was 2, I am probably over protective of the position... I’ve heard too many mental horror stories of guys who couldn’t recover from big hits... the psychological aspect - trusting you’re safe - is difficult to handicap. 

 

 

I think you are right about the inexperience. Haskins has less starts than any successful QB taken in recent history. I honestly don't know whether the best way to handle that is to start Case Keenum, or to start Haskins to get him that experience, but protect the hell out of him, run the ball, and bring the passing game along a little slowly, as the Steelers did with Big Ben. 

 

You might be right about Scherff, I don't pretend to be an expert in evaluating guard play. I will say however that in the beginning of the year, we seemed to run block and pass protect fairly well and that Scherff was a part of that. Maybe he's not worth a huge contract. I honestly don't know that that is the best way to spend money against the salary cap anyway. 

In any case, I absolutely wouldn't move off a high pick unless I thought I could get a nearly equal talent at a premium position like CB, and get my 2nd rounder back. Even then, this is one year that I'd be more likely to go up for Jeudy than go down for... whoever. 

[DWinzit]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  I liked a bunch of TEs from that class.  Among them I liked Sample and I was surprised he went that early.  Sternberger went about where I thought he would.  Too bad we don't have a 2nd next year.  Maybe they trade down some.  Receiver position looks mega stacked.  I haven't really dived in to TE but good to hear that the position has promise. 

 

But yeah can't complain about adding a couple of 4ths.  Love was IMO a great pick -- touted him in 2017 before he decided not to enter the draft.  Explosive as heck.  He barely crossed my mind this year because of the injury -- didn't think they'd consider adding him considering their decent depth at RB and them being supposedly in win now mode. 

Yes Sample went a round earlier than I expected but shows how the NFL is starting to emphasis the blocking ability while being a weapon at TE. There are so few that can do both effectively. 

 

Regarding the Love pick I have said before it was a surprise for me and think he would have been there with the later 4th rounder. I fully expected to see a G being selected. 4 G's went off the board between the Love and Martin pick. Now it looks like Martin may work out but I had some of those G's ranked much higher just like a lot other teams.

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, volsmet said:

@Anselmheifer - I don’t think Scherff is as good as most here do, I don’t care much for Chase, & Wes has some talent, but he’s still just a 4th round rookie obviously. I have concerns about our tackles as well, I wanted to trade Trent, but he’s still an elite talent & Haskins is far more comfortable with edge pressure than anything up the middle — edge hits are also safer on a stationary QB than hits that result from a heavy footed QB trying to avoid pressure up the gut.

 

I’m more worried about Dwayne’s lack of experience than many seem to be, it’s just such a monumental ask ....to have him start 14 games for a team that only required an average depth of target at 8.8 & allowed almost no pressure .... to being in DC on a roster that’s down 1/8th of its cap due to Smiths injury. Now that we have young Haskins, I just want to see him given the best chance to succeed. Part of the reason I liked Lock is he’s an elite athlete — then Rosen moves incredibly well in the pocket & proved he can protect himself with a clueless bunch of bums. 

 

With QB life preached to me from the time I was 2, I am probably over protective of the position... I’ve heard too many mental horror stories of guys who couldn’t recover from big hits... the psychological aspect - trusting you’re safe - is difficult to handicap. 

 

*I think Jeudy is the guy we’re all in agreement on early. 

It will be telling to see what occurs with the Scherff contract.

 

I am not a huge Chase fan either due to his limited athleticism. I surely hope Wes turns into a gem.  As important as you feel G's are, I have always believed a smart, athletic mean C is the second most important OL position next to OLT.  It feels like decades since we have one of those and wish they could find this. It's so often been a 6-7 rounder eh or a eh free agent plugged into the position and getting eh play in return. They are going to need to look hard at T early in the draft as well as another pick or better yet, a free agent. 

 

Wish they had brought in a TE capable of both blocking and receiving to both help the QB's in protection and not telegraphing run or pass based on who is on the field.

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes Sample went a round earlier than I expected but shows how the NFL is starting to emphasis the blocking ability while being a weapon at TE. There are so few that can do both effectively. 

 

Regarding the Love pick I have said before it was a surprise for me and think he would have been there with the later 4th rounder. I fully expected to see a G being selected. 4 G's went off the board between the Love and Martin pick. Now it looks like Martin may work out but I had some of those G's ranked much higher just like a lot other teams.

 

I had no idea who Martin was.    Cooley thinks he will be really good.   I guess will see.   He seems to hint that Piersbacher is a backup at best.  Bullock who does film review for the Athletic seems to think the same about Piersbacher.  I haven't watched either yet.

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

 

Wish they had brought in a TE capable of both blocking and receiving to both help the QB's in protection and not telegraphing run or pass based on who is on the field.

 

TE blocking is becoming more overlooked these days, you can do a million things with a Gronk, there are few things more frustrating to match up with than a TE you need to double who may stay in and crack your Edge rusher. 

 

[volsmet]

11 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I think you are right about the inexperience. Haskins has less starts than any successful QB taken in recent history. I honestly don't know whether the best way to handle that is to start Case Keenum, or to start Haskins to get him that experience, but protect the hell out of him, run the ball, and bring the passing game along a little slowly, as the Steelers did with Big Ben. 

 

You might be right about Scherff, I don't pretend to be an expert in evaluating guard play. I will say however that in the beginning of the year, we seemed to run block and pass protect fairly well and that Scherff was a part of that. Maybe he's not worth a huge contract. I honestly don't know that that is the best way to spend money against the salary cap anyway. 

In any case, I absolutely wouldn't move off a high pick unless I thought I could get a nearly equal talent at a premium position like CB, and get my 2nd rounder back. Even then, this is one year that I'd be more likely to go up for Jeudy than go down for... whoever. 

 

I will change my leanings throughout the year, but right now I don’t see any guard on the roster I trust & that overrides most of my other considerations knowing the difference in talent & speed Dwayne is about to see. It’s impossible to know who busts because of hits, we can’t know who would have been good — the QB position is the one position that can make everyone else better, so I’m probably going to be thinking about remedies at guard until I see something on the field - but overall I agree that passing on a potential generational guy - like Jeudy - is unwise, to put it mildly. Jeudy is one of the best prospects I’ve watched in a long time, I don’t want him on another team, but I want another dead QB less - I have Redskins QB ptsd.

 

 

[volsmet]

 

 

 

Freak athlete at S, potential target for Washington.

 

 

Stevens, stolen from my Vols.