Renegade7

Starting QB 2019???

Who should be the starting QB in 2019???  

402 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should be the starting QB in 2019???

    • Alex Smith
      29
    • Colt McCoy
      66
    • Trade for a Veteran
      8
    • Sign a Veteran
      29
    • First Round Pick (2019 draft class)
      65
    • Non-First Round Pick (2019 draft class)
      37
    • Too Early to Answer
      63
    • I don't know yet
      22
    • We're screwed (at least at QB for 2019)
      83


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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

The last Redskins' QB to win the Super Bowl, we drafted in the 6th Round.

 

If Brady keeps piling those Lombardi's up, 6th rounders might catch up to 1st rounders.

 

Also, only 1 first round Qb drafted since the Redskins selected Jason Campbell in 2005 has won the SB.

 

Flacco, his one great playoff season with that stacked Ravens D.

 

 

Edited by SkinsFTW
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25 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

If Brady keeps piling those Lombardi's up, 6th rounders might catch up to 1st rounders.

 

Also, only 1 first round Qb drafted since the Redskins selected Jason Campbell in 2005 has won the SB.

 

Flacco, his one great playoff season with that stacked Ravens D.

 

 

 

What??? That is not even remotely true. 

 

2006: Big Ben

2007: Peyton Manning

2008: Eli Manning

2009: Big Ben

2011: Aaron Rogers

2012: Eli Manning

2013:Flacco

2016:Peyton Manning

2018: Wentz got them to the super bowl but didn't play in the super bowl. 

 

If you don't count Wentz, that is still 8 years that the super bowl was won by a 1st round QB. The only other winning QB's were Brees, Russel Wilson, Tom Brady, and if you want to include him, Nick Foles. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

What??? That is not even remotely true. 

 

2006: Big Ben

2007: Peyton Manning

2008: Eli Manning

2009: Big Ben

2011: Aaron Rogers

2012: Eli Manning

2013:Flacco

2016:Peyton Manning

2018: Wentz got them to the super bowl but didn't play in the super bowl. 

 

If you don't count Wentz, that is still 8 years that the super bowl was won by a 1st round QB. The only other winning QB's were Brees, Russel Wilson, Tom Brady, and if you want to include him, Nick Foles. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

 

Peyton, Big Ben and Eli weren't "drafted since the Redskins selected Jason Campbell in 2005", though...they were all drafted before 2005. I think that's the issue. He might not have even been considering Rodgers because if you say "since 2005" it might mean he's not counting QBs drafted in 2005.

Edited by Califan007

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3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Peyton, Big Ben and Eli weren't "drafted since the Redskins selected Jason Campbell in 2005", though...they were all drafted before 2005. I think that's the issue. He might not have even been considering Rodgers because if you say "since 2005" it might mean he's not counting QBs drafted in 2005.

 

Then the statement is meaningless/misleading because the QB's drafted in the 1st after 2005 have been beat out by other 1st rounders in addition to 2 other HOF QB's in Brees and Brady, and a perennially pro-bowl worthy player in Russell Wilson. It's cherry picking stats to get across a point that just isn't true.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Then the statement is meaningless/misleading because the QB's drafted in the 1st after 2005 have been beat out by other 1st rounders in addition to 2 other HOF QB's in Brees and Brady, and a perennially pro-bowl worthy player in Russell Wilson. It's cherry picking stats to get across a point that just isn't true.

 

I always thought "won a Super Bowl" was meaningless, as it should be "made it to the Super Bowl" imo.

 

Also. a HUGE percentage of 1st round QBs drafted in between 2006 and 2014 were mediocre or flat-out busts. Something like 19 1st round QBs our of 26 drafted.

 

EDIT: here's the list...1st round QBs drafted in between 2006-2014 that were either mediocre or busts...It's actually 18 our of 24 (75% fail rate):

 

Vince Young

Matt Lienart

Jamarcus Russell

Brady Quinn

Mark Sanchez

Josh Freeman

Sam Bradford

Tim Tebow

Jake Locker

Blaine Gabbert

Christian Ponder

Robert Griffin

Ryan Tannehill

Brandon Weedon

EJ Manuel

Blake Bortles

Johnny Manziel

Teddy Bridgewater

 

 

Edited by Califan007

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13 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

I always thought "won a Super Bowl" was meaningless, as it should be "made it to the Super Bowl" imo.

 

Also. a HUGE percentage of 1st round QBs drafted in between 2006 and 2014 were mediocre or flat-out busts. Something like 19 1st round QBs our of 26 drafted.

 

EDIT: here's the list...1st round QBs drafted in between 2006-2014 that were either mediocre or busts...It's actually 18 our of 24 (75% fail rate):

 

Vince Young

Matt Lienart

Jamarcus Russell

Brady Quinn

Mark Sanchez

Josh Freeman

Sam Bradford

Tim Tebow

Jake Locker

Blaine Gabbert

Christian Ponder

Robert Griffin

Ryan Tannehill

Brandon Weedon

EJ Manuel

Blake Bortles

Johnny Manziel

Teddy Bridgewater

 

 

That is a given. But, teams need QB's. The percentage of QB's chosen outside of the first is astoundingly worse. At some point, you need to draft a QB, and if you want to draft a good one, statistics say that you are infinitely better off getting your guy in the 1st.

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1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

That is a given. But, teams need QB's. The percentage of QB's chosen outside of the first is astoundingly worse. At some point, you need to draft a QB, and if you want to draft a good one, statistics say that you are infinitely better off getting your guy in the 1st.

 

True, but the argument is also made that 1t round draft capital is far too valuable to spend at all costs on a position with such a high miss percentage. So if you spend a 1st on a QB you better be damn sure and not just "We really need a QB so we need to grab one in the 1st round"...that's how the Weedons, Tebows, Quinns, and Manziels get drafted so high. I remember a lot of people here getting pissed off that we traded down from the #10 spot in 2011 when Blaine Gabbert had fallen to us, and we went with Kerrigan instead. I mean, we had Grossman and Beck as our QBs lol...

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5 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

True, but the argument is also made that 1t round draft capital is far too valuable to spend at all costs on a position with such a high miss percentage. So if you spend a 1st on a QB you better be damn sure and not just "We really need a QB so we need to grab one in the 1st round"...that's how the Weedons, Tebows, Quinns, and Manziels get drafted so high. I remember a lot of people here getting pissed off that we traded down from the #10 spot in 2011 when Blaine Gabbert had fallen to us, and we went with Kerrigan instead. I mean, we had Grossman and Beck as our QBs lol...

 

I 100% agree with you here. You can't draft a 1st round QB because you need a QB. On the flip side, if there is a guy that you think can be great, that's worth a lot of capital.  It was super smart to pass on Gabbert. It was not super smart to pass on JJ Watt in favor of trading down and grabbing...does anyone even remember who else we got out of that trade?

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7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I 100% agree with you here. You can't draft a 1st round QB because you need a QB. On the flip side, if there is a guy that you think can be great, that's worth a lot of capital.  It was super smart to pass on Gabbert. It was not super smart to pass on JJ Watt in favor of trading down and grabbing...does anyone even remember who else we got out of that trade?

 

Did we trade back again after gaining another 2nd round pick?...I think we traded that pick and gained like an extra 4th and 5th rounder or something...

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39 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Did we trade back again after gaining another 2nd round pick?...I think we traded that pick and gained like an extra 4th and 5th rounder or something...

That was the Jarvis Jenkins Hankerson Roy Helu Dejon Gomes draft I believe. Not sure exactly what it fetched us though.

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11 hours ago, Hitman#21 said:

@Skinsinparadise Did Hoffman mention Rosen in the Pod?

 

He did say they have interest still.  He believes they won't give up a first.  They don't want to give up multiple picks in this draft but are open to give up another pick in next year's draft.  Keim in a podcast implied they like but don't love Rosen and aren't pining for him but if they can get a good deal for him they'd go for it. 

 

I've said this on another thread, the Redskins have done a nice job of putting just about every scenario out there where it's really confusing as to QB.  The Giants, ditto.  Depending on whose talking they either like QB X or don't.  They really really want to take a QB at 15 or they really don't.  They would trade up for a QB or pass up on a QB who lands at 15 to accrue picks. 

 

Case in point.  I watched Friday's version of NFL Live where Diane Russini said she's heard the Redskins love Haskins.  Then you got Craig Hoffman who says they don't love any QB in the first round sans Murray.   Finlay says they like Lock.  Keim and Hoffman say they don't.  Keim said they'd consider taking a QB at 15 suggesting Jones or Haskins if they fall.  Hoffman says they won't.  Jay supposedly isn't a fan of Haskins.  But Doug supposedly does like Haskins.  Finlay thinks they'd consider trading up for Murray if they have an opportunity. Hoffman says no way.

 

My point is I don't really know what to make of any of it.  There is a counter argument to every argument.  Way different than last year before the draft where we heard a lot about them liking Payne and Guice among others.  The pre-chatter talk before this draft is confusing as heck as to QBs.    As for WRs that seems more consistent -- multiple reporters say they like Marquise Brown.   Hoffman thinks they also like N'Keal Harry. 

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My current guess is we like Lock. Watch the draft come to us. Maybe jump to say 9 with the Bills to get him. Rosen is the fall back.

 

Could be way off base, no chance anyone can call this right now. Pretty intriguing to be fair. 

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He did say they have interest still.  He believes they won't give up a first.  They don't want to give up multiple picks in this draft but are open to give up another pick in next year's draft.  Keim in a podcast implied they like but don't love Rosen and aren't pining for him but if they can get a good deal for him they'd go for it. 

 

I've said this on another thread, the Redskins have done a nice job of putting just about every scenario out there where it's really confusing as to QB.  The Giants, ditto.  Depending on whose talking they either like QB X or don't.  They really really want to take a QB at 15 or they really don't.  They would trade up for a QB or pass up on a QB who lands at 15 to accrue picks. 

 

Case in point.  I watched Friday's version of NFL Live where Diane Russini said she's heard the Redskins love Haskins.  Then you got Craig Hoffman who says they don't love any QB in the first round sans Murray.   Finlay says they like Lock.  Keim and Hoffman say they don't.  Keim said they'd consider taking a QB at 15 suggesting Jones or Haskins if they fall.  Hoffman says they won't.  Jay supposedly isn't a fan of Haskins.  But Doug supposedly does like Haskins.  Finlay thinks they'd consider trading up for Murray if they have an opportunity. Hoffman says no way.

 

My point is I don't really know what to make of any of it.  There is a counter argument to every argument.  Way different than last year before the draft where we heard a lot about them liking Payne and Guice among others.  The pre-chatter talk before this draft is confusing as heck as to QBs.    As for WRs that seems more consistent -- multiple reporters say they like Marquise Brown.   Hoffman thinks they also like N'Keal Harry. 

Thanks! Just saw this.. ignore the DM lol

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For negotiation purposes it would be pretty irresponsible if the Skins said they "loved" Rosen instead of "liked" him. Once another team knows that you're in love with the player the asking price is bound to be a little higher. Kind of like what the Rams did to us in the RGlll trade. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

For negotiation purposes it would be pretty irresponsible if the Skins said they "loved" Rosen instead of "liked" him. Once another team knows that you're in love with the player the asking price is bound to be a little higher. Kind of like what the Rams did to us in the RGlll trade. 

 

Agree but the beat guys aren't saying this is what the Redskins are saying privately to Arizona.   What Keim for example is saying is some dude or multiple ones who he trusts in the FO to usually tell him the truth is telling him they aren't in love with Rosen where they plan to move mountains to get him.  Could he be lying to Keim?  Maybe.   But Keim's rap is the Redskins haven't been pushing that hard but if there is an opportunity at the right price, they'd have interest.  He's not the only one saying something similar.

 

But yeah you never know, maybe they are dying to have Rosen and are totally infatuated by him.  If that's the case the FO is doing great at leaking misinformation to multiple reporters on it. 

 

My take though is if they love him then they should just offer the #1 and get it over with why play cute and set yourself to be outbid by someone  You don't typically hesitate trading a first rounder for a QB you love.   If a QB you love can be had who is young, IMO you do whatever it takes to make it happen.    My point is the like not love part I think matches their actions, too.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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5 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 At some point, you need to draft a QB, and if you want to draft a good one, statistics say that you are infinitely better off getting your guy in the 1st.

Statistics also say that a team like the Colts, Giants, Eagles, or Steelers are infinitely more likely to get that QB than the Redskins.

 

20 hours ago, Califan007 said:

He might not have even been considering Rodgers because if you say "since 2005" it might mean he's not counting QBs drafted in 2005.

 

Rodgers was already selected when the Redskins selected Jason Campbell.

 

Flacco 1 everybody else 0. Matt Ryan can blame the coaches but he still has no ring.

 

The other guy trying to count Wentz is pretty hilarious. The dude didn't even play a post season game.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree but the beat guys aren't saying this is what the Redskins are saying privately to Arizona.   What Keim for example is saying is some dude or multiple ones who he trusts in the FO to usually tell him the truth is telling him they aren't in love with Rosen where they plan to move mountains to get him.  Could he be lying to Keim?  Maybe.   But Keim's rap is the Redskins haven't been pushing that hard but if there is an opportunity at the right price, they'd have interest.  He's not the only one saying something similar.

 

But yeah you never know, maybe they are dying to have Rosen and are totally infatuated by him.  If that's the case the FO is doing great at leaking misinformation to multiple reporters on it. 

 

My take though is if they love him then they should just offer the #1 and get it over with why play cute and set yourself to be outbid by someone  You don't typically hesitate trading a first rounder for a QB you love.   If a QB you love can be had who is young, IMO you do whatever it takes to make it happen.    My point is the like not love part I think matches their actions, too.  

I realize that it's not information being conversed with Arizona, but they also have to understand that what they say to our beat reporters is just a click away for Arizona to find out. It would be amazing if the only people that knew the Redskins loved Rosen is the FO. 

 

I don't know if I would just throw the #1 at Arizona like that, if it eventually gets to that point and those are the agreed upon terms then fine. I think by downplaying how much we like him this prevents other teams from being as urgent with their offers as well. I wouldn't mind trading #15 for #33 and Rosen. That would be a pretty fair deal I think. 

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I realize that it's not information being conversed with Arizona, but they also have to understand that what they say to our beat reporters is just a click away for Arizona to find out. It would be amazing if the only people that knew the Redskins loved Rosen is the FO. 

 

I don't know if I would just throw the #1 at Arizona like that, if it eventually gets to that point and those are the agreed upon terms then fine. I think by downplaying how much we like him this prevents other teams from being as urgent with their offers as well. I wouldn't mind trading #15 for #33 and Rosen. That would be a pretty fair deal I think. 

 

Maybe.  But some of the stuff that gets leaked actually turns out to be true.  As an example, them liking Payne and Guice before the previous draft.   Lots of leaks that they liked for example Paul Richardson before he was signed in FA.  

 

I'd be really surprised that they love Rosen (but do indeed like him) for 2 reasons:

 

A.  Rosen IMO wasn't a lights out player in college nor was he last year in the pros.  I have a tough time seeing any team being in love with the dude. Granted that point is my own personal bias.  And I like Rosen but he doesn't strike me as a swoon status fall in love with type of player.  He has attributes but to me some obvious concerns, too which I've laid out on this thread before.  So when Keim says they have some concerns -- it strikes me intuitive and makes sense.

 

B.  According to national reporters, Arizona beat guys, DC beat guys, no one has offered Arizona a first rounder for Rosen.  Even the Arizona beat guys have said they get the impression talking to their sources with the team that even the Arizona FO doesn't expect a first rounder.  So playing off of your same point, what would Arizona have to gain by leaking that to their beat guys?  If you are in love with a QB and there is genuine competition for said player why not offer your first rounder and get your target.  Young QBs you love are worth a lot of draft capital let alone just giving up a mid first rounder for a franchise QB you love. 

 

I could be wrong but I'd be surprised if Keim, Sheehan, Hoffman, etc have it wrong about the Redskins desire for Rosen.  They do think there is genuine interest but not because they love him but because they like him.  But who knows.  Will find out soon enough.  The draft can't get here soon enough.  😀

 

Said differently if you can get a 23 year old QB who you love for like 3 million a year.  Why the heck would you play games and haggle for a cheapish bargain as to the Qb position when that haggling can cost you said player. Getting a stud young franchise Qb you love with the 15th pick in the draft is a bargain and would set the franchise up for a decade plus.  That's a no brainer where it would be IMO dumb to play games on that front and lose him to another team let alone a team within your own division.  So if the Redskins feel that strongly about Rosen then IMO they are acting like morons if it's true that they haven't made a big offer for him yet.   

 

This isn't analogous IMO to RG3 where you got teams going how high is high enough with multiple first rounders in play.  In a way its the reverse.  It's can you get a young Qb at a discount and the haggling is how much of a discount?  

 

Edit:  the other wild card is what if Arizona elects to keep Rosen?  Some people think that Murray is no longer the slam dunk pick right now for Arizona.  Again the draft can't come soon enough. 😀 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
On 4/20/2019 at 8:03 PM, SkinsFTW said:

 

If Brady keeps piling those Lombardi's up, 6th rounders might catch up to 1st rounders.

 

Also, only 1 first round Qb drafted since the Redskins selected Jason Campbell in 2005 has won the SB.

 

Flacco, his one great playoff season with that stacked Ravens D.

 

 

 

This may technically be true (depending on how you count Wentz), but it's also really misleading. Eight of the Super Bowls were won by QBs drafted in the first round (9 if you count Wentz as part of the Eagles season since he started the majority of the games). The three non-first rounders to win were Brees, Brady, and Wilson. And Brees was pick #32, which has been a first round pick since 2002. The counter statement would go like this:

 

Since the Redskins selected Jason Campbell in 2005, only two players drafted outside the top 32 picks have started a majority of the games at QB for a team that won the Super Bowl: Brady and Wilson.

 

If you want to take even a step further, the scouts clearly missed on Wilson because of his height )something most teams don't seem to care that much about anymore). Not really sure why they missed on Brady. I guess Drew Henson is to blame? But it suggests if you want a non-first round QB to pan out, you need to find something everyone else just misses on.

 

Edited by Jericho

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The Redskins have done fine with their non first round qb selections. They just haven't ever decided to stick with them, all the way back to Trent Green and even Stan Humphries before that.

 

First rounders on the other hand...

 

Rg3 (3 firsts)

Ramsey

Candle

2 firsts for Brad Johnson? 

Danny Boy wanted to do it again for Cutler.

I'm sure a first given up for Rosen would end up being just a much a flustercluck.

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21 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

The Redskins have done fine with their non first round qb selections. They just haven't ever decided to stick with them, all the way back to Trent Green and even Stan Humphries before that.

 

First rounders on the other hand...

 

Rg3 (3 firsts)

Ramsey

Candle

2 firsts for Brad Johnson? 

Danny Boy wanted to do it again for Cutler.

I'm sure a first given up for Rosen would end up being just a much a flustercluck.

 

You can't make decisions based on that. If you drink and drive and nothing bad happens, that doesn't make it a good idea. Spend all of your money gambling and hit the jackpot it's probably not a good idea to do it again. 

It costs draft capital to get a QB that can keep your championship playoff window open for a substantial period. The skins have mostly been irrelevant for the last 20 years because we have gone through a million QB's without ever finding that guy. We need to be committed to spending what it costs to get a QB. That doesn't mean drafting Blaine Gabbert because he is the best QB available at pick 10. That does mean that if we have to give up a package to move up, that we do it. Just like the Eagles and Chiefs and Texans. Identify the guy and get him. 

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56 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

The Redskins have done fine with their non first round qb selections. They just haven't ever decided to stick with them, all the way back to Trent Green and even Stan Humphries before that.

 

First rounders on the other hand...

 

Rg3 (3 firsts)

Ramsey

Candle

2 firsts for Brad Johnson? 

Danny Boy wanted to do it again for Cutler.

I'm sure a first given up for Rosen would end up being just a much a flustercluck.

 

Trent Green was drafted by San Diego

 

Colt Brennan, Jordan Palmer, Nate Sudfeld, Gibran Hamdan, Sage Rosenfels, Todd Husak, Gus Frerotte, Chris Hakel, and Cary Conklin. Those are the non-Kirk Cousins QBs drafted outside the first round by the Redskins since 1988. So in 30 years, the team drafted one bona fide starter (Cousins) and two decent back-ups (Frerotte and I'll give Rosenfels credit for sticking around so long. We'll see if Sudfeld amounts to anything). Frerotte actually had a pretty amazing career for what he was. But he's not someone you really want being you starter. For that matter, Humphries wasn't that great either. I mean guys like Frerotte or Humphries could start in a pinch, but they're just like Keenum. Someone you can ride with, but would rather replace. The entire Redskins history of drafting QBs is pretty abysmal. Unless you get into the pre-Super Bowl era picks, what's the high water mark here? Mark Rypien? He had the one really great season and QB'd a Super Bowl win. but outside of that year, his career was neither long nor particularly successful.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/20/2019 at 5:35 PM, Anselmheifer said:

 

What??? That is not even remotely true. 

 

2006: Big Ben

2007: Peyton Manning

2008: Eli Manning

2009: Big Ben

2011: Aaron Rogers

2012: Eli Manning

2013:Flacco

2016:Peyton Manning

2018: Wentz got them to the super bowl but didn't play in the super bowl. 

 

If you don't count Wentz, that is still 8 years that the super bowl was won by a 1st round QB. The only other winning QB's were Brees, Russel Wilson, Tom Brady, and if you want to include him, Nick Foles. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

I think he means drafted in the 1st after we drafted Campbell (Rogers went before him so wouldn't count).  But he is still wrong Wentz also has a ring.

Edited by nonniey

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