The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Tsailand]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

certainly 3 years for $60M would have been better than whatever we did.

 

Three years of Kirk for $54M~$57M.  Yep, that's better than two years of Kirk for $44M and then trading for Alex and having to pay Alex.

 

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

But, we'd be 13 games away from being in the same exact situation.

 

No, because a competent GM would have signed him to a new long-term deal this spring.  He would still only make $18M~$19M for 2018.

 

13 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

and it would have likely taken in the $27-30M range to extend him past the 2018 season.  

 

In other words, the same deal he just got from the vikings, but starting a year later. That's what competent teams do with their franchise QBs, they pay them what the market demands.

[Tsailand]

Here are the two main arguments from Bruce defenders in the last few pages:

 

1. It's OK that Bruce overruled "GM" Scott McCloughan on dealing with Kirk in September 2015, even though everyone (including Bruce) said publicly that Scott had final say on personnel.

 

2.  It's OK that we didn't lock Kirk up cheap in Fall 2015/Spring 2016, because eventually that contract would have expired.  Same reason showering is a waste of time, eventually you get dirty again.

 

Let me know if I missed any.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You got the wrong guy that you are questioning on that front.  It was Bruce who said in an interview and to others he barely knows Scot.  Then contradicts himself in another setting where it would look good to say he knows Scott well, the day he was hired and their is hype attached to it.    It's another example of Bruce's clumsiness and tendency to fudge the truth -- not Russell's.

 

I've heard one of those interviews where Bruce talks about knowing Scot's family but not so much Scot himself.

 

I missed that, when did he say he didn't now Scot?

[HardcoreZorn]

4 hours ago, Morneblade said:

As for my explanation, I believe I mentioned it a couple times that it was something that I "though", as we don't have much, if any actual facts to go on. So we are left with trying to figure it out. Sorry if that bothers you. At least I was honest about it. You asked a question, and I actually tired to answer it, to the best of my ability, given the limited information. This is about all you can ask. Unless you actually have something concrete to add....................

 

 

4 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

As to your last statement, everyone has an opinion. Opinion based on facts go further.

?

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I missed that, when did he say he didn't now Scot?

 

He said it at least once if I recall actually multiple times.  He's said he knew Scot's family but barely knew Scot at all.   I recall that crystal clear.  I'll see if any of that was even in writing.  I know what Russell is referring to it on that front.  So yeah I didn't really think of it until you brought it up in relation to Russell talking out of both sides of his mouth -- but its actually Bruce on that front.  I didn't really zone in on Bruce pumping up once that he knew Scot well.   He definitely contradicted himself on that front.  Not that it matters -- that's just Bruce being a politician. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He said it at least once if I recall actually multiple times.  He's said he knew Scot's family but barely knew Scot at all.   I recall that crystal clear.  I'll see if any of that was even in writing.  I know what Russell is referring to it on that front.  So yeah I didn't really think of it until you brought it up in relation to Russell talking out of both sides of his mouth -- but its actually Bruce on that front.  I didn't really zone in on Bruce pumping up once that he knew Scot well.   He definitely contradicted himself on that front.  Not that it matters -- that's just Bruce being a politician. 

 

it was a taped or live interview? Ah, ok, I wouldn't have heard that lol...but yeah, if you can recall approximately when it took place I'll search for it. Because in my eyes, that's a MASSIVE **** up on his part to say something like that. I mean huge.

[Morneblade]

14 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

?

 

And once again, you have to move the goalposts to try to keep up. The first thing you quoted, is a explanation on what I though happened. Not an opinion. Not only that, I was very clear that I was going with a lot of conjecture, due the lack of actual facts. We do have some actual facts that show that Allen wasn't negotiating, but nothing as to what actually happened. So there is that.

 

The second is basing opinions on facts. I don't like Allen because he does a lot of things that are not very respectable, like dragging GMSM's name through the mud, passing off a deal in Richmond, VA and then changing the specifics to help the Redskin/hurt Richmond, and stuff going back to Tampa and Oakland, where he had the rep of doing the same thing. I notice you don't have anything to say, other than you don't care if he's a crap human being or not. And that is fine. You don't have to care. However, as I said earlier, I do. And those actual facts are why.

 

So, you're being disingenuous at best here. And I'm starting to come to expect that out of you. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

The first think you quoted, is a explanation on what I though happened. Not an opinion. Not only that, I was very clear that I was going with a lot of conjecture, due the lack of actual facts.

4

 

It was what you thought happened, but it wasn't an opinion, but it was conjecture.

 

 

[Morneblade]

Just now, Califan007 said:

 

It was what you thought happened, but it wasn't an opinion, but it was conjecture.

 

 

 

Oh, Cali, I see you want to play this game too. Fine I'll bite. Maybe I'll define a couple things as well, since you're having issues.

 

For opinion, I'm specifically referring to the 3rd definition here, since we're talking about someone.

"an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something." As in, my opinion of Bruce Allen.

 

We also know a little about what went on. Based on that, I laid out a scenario based on the facts we have, how things might have happened. I think I was also REALLY CLEAR about that.

 

I get it Cali, you don't like your boy getting beat up here. But if all you're going to do is split hairs on definitions, leave the discussion for those that actually are going to have a little meat on the bone. Usually, you're better than that.

[HardcoreZorn]

Things getting juicy in here!

 

I like some things Bruce has done. I don't understand the level of hatred. I don't think it was ALL Bruce, and Kirk and his side played their part. I also happen to disagree with some things Bruce has done, namely not trading him after the 2016 season. There is more to a football team than one singular player/position, 52 other guys on the team to be exact. I happen to weight some of those decisions as well when formulating my opinion of him who woulda thunk. I care far more about the football side of things and don't care to formulate opinions of people I've never met. A lot of unanswered questions on the Scott side as well, another issue at the forefront so not willing to allocate 100% of the blame to Bruce/Dan there. Promote Schaeffer/Smith as I don't want to lose them, even it means the end of my beloved Bruce. The end.

 

If any of that makes me disingenuous, I'm disingenuous!

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

it was a taped or live interview? Ah, ok, I wouldn't have heard that lol...but yeah, if you can recall approximately when it took place I'll search for it. Because in my eyes, that's a MASSIVE **** up on his part to say something like that. I mean huge.

 

In the back of mind at least once it was a 980 interview -- there was someone related to Scot maybe his dad or brother that he knew if I recall from his Raiders day.  He spoke about knowing the McCloughan family well but not Scot so much.  I am actually confident it was said.  It's something I've for a long time that just registered as part of the history between Bruce and the McCloughans -- didn't think it was a big deal though.

 

The only thing I am foggy about it is I could have sworn in another interview Bruce referred to maybe having tension with the people he was previously close to in the McCloughan family because of what went down with Scot -- maybe that was in a Finlay interview?  

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Thinking hard about it, yeah Bruce referred to not knowing Scot well but knowing his family well was in a radio interview, and its not a foggy memory on my end, I recall him saying it.  Trying to piece where.  I'll look later if I can piece it together

 

Here's Bruce referring to going back with Scot's brother and father -- in this one he doesn't mention that he didn't know Scot well, he doesn't say one way or another on that front -- he hits about his brother and dad here. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/exclusive-redskins-bruce-allen-talks-scot-mccloughan-firing-draft-board

[Califan007 The Constipated]

10 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Oh, Cali, I see you want to play this game too. Fine I'll bite. Maybe I'll define a couple things as well, since you're having issues.

 

For opinion, I'm specifically referring to the 3rd definition here, since we're talking about someone.

"an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something." As in, my opinion of Bruce Allen.

 

3

 

Damn, and people think I play the semantics game lol....and for the record, thoughts and conjecture ARE opinions.

 

Still, if we pretend, just for ****s and giggles, that you're being genuine here, then what you said still doesn't make any sense in the context of what @HardcoreZorn posted. You said "opinions based on facts go further" yet seem to believe your opinion--no matter which version of the definition you want to cling to--goes further than his does because it's based more on facts. Or that his doesn't go far enough because it's not based on enough facts. Yet you had previously said "it was something that I "though", as we don't have much, if any actual facts to go on. So we are left with trying to figure it out. Sorry if that bothers you."...which indicates that you felt he was bothered by opinions that weren't based enough on facts. But you said opinions based on facts go further. But you also chastized the guy for being bothered by conjecture due to a lack of facts. But you also said that opinion based on oh hell, skip it, I grew bored just responding lol.

[Skinsinparadise]

on another front, its sort of shocking that Bruce's relationship with the press hasn't been hot or anyone questions the dude's integrity.

 

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/12/good_bye_to_vinny_part_ii.html
Prince of Darkness

 

Tampa columnist Gary Shelton just flayed Bruce Allen on Friday, among other things, calling him the Prince of Darkness. That was kind of a downer. I keep hearing how terrible Allen's relationship was with the Tampa press. 

 

https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/theater/article/13039160/bruce-allen-redskins-gm-season-ticket-salesman-the-new-executive

Gary Shelton, a columnist for the St. Petersburg Times...saying the GM pulled a con job on Snyder.

“Didn’t [Snyder] suspect a resume with five pounds of White-Out?” Shelton wrote, adding that Allen “treated the truth as if he was afraid of going over the cap.”

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Damn, and people think I play the semantics game lol....and for the record, thoughts and conjecture ARE opinions.

 

Still, if we pretend, just for ****s and giggles, that you're being genuine here, then what you said still doesn't make any sense in the context of what @HardcoreZorn posted. You said "opinions based on facts go further" yet seem to believe your opinion--no matter which version of the definition you want to cling to--goes further than his does because it's based more on facts. Or that his doesn't go far enough because it's not based on enough facts. Yet you had previously said "it was something that I "though", as we don't have much, if any actual facts to go on. So we are left with trying to figure it out. Sorry if that bothers you."...which indicates that you felt he was bothered by opinions that weren't based enough on facts. But you said opinions based on facts go further. But you also chastized the guy for being bothered by conjecture due to a lack of facts. But you also said that opinion based on oh hell, skip it, I grew bored just responding lol.

 

I'm so glad you did. I'm quite bored of responding to you too. Although you're probably just tired of moving the goalposts so much. Take a breather.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In the back of mind at least once it was a 980 interview -- there was someone related to Scot maybe his dad or brother that he knew if I recall from his Raiders day.  He spoke about knowing the McCloughan family well but not Scot so much.  I am actually confident it was said.  It's something I've for a long time that just registered as part of the history between Bruce and the McCloughans -- didn't think it was a big deal though.

 

 

To me it's huge because he recommended Scot for GM to the 49ers. For him to now say that he barely knew the guy....I mean, damn. He's recommending someone he doesn't even really know to the most powerful spot in most NFL organizations other than owner or team president? This goes beyond what happened with the Skins.

[joeken24]

23 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

To me it's huge because he recommended Scot for GM to the 49ers. For him to now say that he barely knew the guy....I mean, damn. He's recommending someone he doesn't even really know to the most powerful spot in most NFL organizations other than owner or team president? This goes beyond what happened with the Skins.

Did you know your boss before you got your job? Family and friends hiring each other is actually not good business. Its called nepotism.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

21 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

Did you know your boss before you got your job? Family and friends hiring each other is actually not good business. Its called nepotism.

 

My boss didn't recommend me to himself. And my boss didn't hire me to the 3rd most important position in a $100 million organization without interviewing me because he knew my dad.

 

EDIT: not to mention recommending a guy he says he doesn't really know who goes on to be an alcoholic on the job.

[Skinsinparadise]

52 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

To me it's huge because he recommended Scot for GM to the 49ers. For him to now say that he barely knew the guy....I mean, damn. He's recommending someone he doesn't even really know to the most powerful spot in most NFL organizations other than owner or team president? This goes beyond what happened with the Skins.

 

He said that in that interview he knows Scot's family well.    He knew Scot by reputation but not so much personally.   Bruce was close to Scot's brother-father.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He said that in that interview he knows Scot's family well.    He knew Scot by reputation but not so much personally.   Bruce was close to Scot's brother-father.

 

I'm gonna assume that every NFL executive at the time knew Scot by reputation, including the execs with the 49ers. I'm also gonna assume that Allen's recommendation didn't consist of "While I don't know Scot mcCloughan, I hear he's really good at talent evaluation" lol...Hell, I could have recommended Scot if that's the case.

[Morneblade]

3 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Things getting juicy in here!

 

I like some things Bruce has done. I don't understand the level of hatred. I don't think it was ALL Bruce, and Kirk and his side played their part. I also happen to disagree with some things Bruce has done, namely not trading him after the 2016 season. There is more to a football team than one singular player/position, 52 other guys on the team to be exact. I happen to weight some of those decisions as well when formulating my opinion of him who woulda thunk. I care far more about the football side of things and don't care to formulate opinions of people I've never met. A lot of unanswered questions on the Scott side as well, another issue at the forefront so not willing to allocate 100% of the blame to Bruce/Dan there. Promote Schaeffer/Smith as I don't want to lose them, even it means the end of my beloved Bruce. The end.

 

If any of that makes me disingenuous, I'm disingenuous!

 

Man, just own it. You're a Bruce Allen fan. Seriously, just own it. It's ok. Is it popular? No, but that's ok too. Takes all kinds. I mean, you got the Alex fanboys that have followed him over 3 teams here.I mean who the hell follows a QB that isn't like, Tom Brady through 3 teams?! Right?! But they own it, and it's actually cool. They are learning about the team, and the history and actually contribute to discussions. And when they don't try to hide that they are Alex fanboys, it's all good.

 

Trying to act like they are just "new members" and trying to be sneaky about it? Nah, that ain't cool.

 

I know you're a big fan of Bruce, and you really didn't like Kirk. Dude, it's ok. Seriously. We all have opinions that don't go over well. Was he the best QB we've had in decades? Sure!

But was he perfect? No!

 

I wasn't a fan of drafting Megatron.

 

Seriously!

 

I mean I know we didn't, but way back, like EVERYONE wanted to draft him. I didn't though we needed a QB before taking a WR real high. I thought he would be wasted here, because we had like, Jason Campbell. Even started a thread to merge all the "we really need to draft Calvin Johnson" in it. And it was like the 1st thread I ever started. And oh boy......... Blondie accused me of trying to be a glory hound so my name would be on the front page. Woo! Good times. And everyone really didn't agree.

 

But hey, I stuck to my "opinion" on the subject............................ and was probably wrong. But hey, at least I honest about where I stood. I lived. I'm still here and Blondie..............................haven't seen her here in years. Kinda sucks too.

 

Anyway. Just fly that 'Ole Bruce Allen Flag. It's all good. You know you wanna.

 

Just Do It.

[HardcoreZorn]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Man, just own it. You're a Bruce Allen fan. Seriously, just own it. It's ok. Is it popular? No, but that's ok too. Takes all kinds. I mean, you got the Alex fanboys that have followed him over 3 teams here.I mean who the hell follows a QB that isn't like, Tom Brady through 3 teams?! Right?! But they own it, and it's actually cool. They are learning about the team, and the history and actually contribute to discussions. And when they don't try to hide that they are Alex fanboys, it's all good.

 

Trying to act like they are just "new members" and trying to be sneaky about it? Nah, that ain't cool.

 

I know you're a big fan of Bruce, and you really didn't like Kirk. Dude, it's ok. Seriously. We all have opinions that don't go over well. Was he the best QB we've had in decades? Sure!

But was he perfect? No!

 

I wasn't a fan of drafting Megatron.

 

Seriously!

 

I mean I know we didn't, but way back, like EVERYONE wanted to draft him. I didn't though we needed a QB before taking a WR real high. I thought he would be wasted here, because we had like, Jason Campbell. Even started a thread to merge all the "we really need to draft Calvin Johnson" in it. And it was like the 1st thread I ever started. And oh boy......... Blondie accused me of trying to be a glory hound so my name would be on the front page. Woo! Good times. And everyone really didn't agree.

 

But hey, I stuck to my "opinion" on the subject............................ and was probably wrong. But hey, at least I honest about where I stood. I lived. I'm still here and Blondie..............................haven't seen her here in years. Kinda sucks too.

 

Anyway. Just fly that 'Ole Bruce Allen Flag. It's all good. You know you wanna.

 

Just Do It.

I love Bruce Allen. God that feels good! 

[skins island connection]

11 hours ago, joeken24 said:

Did you know your boss before you got your job? Family and friends hiring each other is actually not good business. Its called nepotism.

 

 Not to butt in, but actually in the NFL, nepotism is actually pretty high, and has been happening for a loooong time, and not just the Redskins.

Yea, it drives me bat-**** crazy but it does happen.

[ixcuincle]

Listen I'll be honest and criticize Allen when it is warranted but can you really honestly say he has made any bad decisions the last 2 offseasons? What he has done is fill this team with talent. And you can whine all you want about how it's not him pulling the strings, it's other people, it's "Scot's plan"...let's take a look. 2 offseasons ago: draft Allen. draft Nicholson, draft Moreau, and this offseason, draft Payne and Guice. They are drafting talent that addresses the team needs. Need secondary help, draft Nicholson and Moreau. Need help stopping the run, draft Payne. He is doing a good job filling in team needs as well as re-signing talent that needs to be signed (i.e. Zach Brown). 

 

The reasons people are so bent on Allen are a) his treatment of Kirk Cousins...who now looks pretty pedestrian don't you think? and B. His treatment of RG3 during that whole saga. Give him credit. He was the GM, he said he couldn't do it, went up to the president's office, let Scot take the reins, and then when Scot was unceremoniously dismissed, allegedly started meddling again, and honestly, can you complain about ANYTHING he has done the last 2 offseasons? Spew all you want about how "winning the offseason" is stupid and we need to "win games on the field", but isn't that what's been done now? This success you see today, the strong D, the efficient offense, that is the work of Bruce Allen. You know, that guy who traded for Alex Smith and discarded Kendall Fuller (who also looks pedestrian too btw) 

 

If Allen is doing anything poorly on the team, again, it's fair to criticize. But he isn't. So there's really no need to complain about his work so far as GM. While it has been poor in the past, it has improved steadily over the last few years. You honestly can't complain about anything he's done since 2013.

[Riggo-toni]

12 hours ago, joeken24 said:

Family and friends hiring each other is actually not good business. Its called nepotism.

Round these parts in Dannyland, we call it standard operating procedure.