Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

[Bozo the kKklown]

6 hours ago, FunkedUp said:

 

The political violence he suffered is bad no matter its orientation. And your smear to try and minimize that violence is harmful.

He has spent the last few years antagonizing left wing activists. And I know who he is and who he has written for, the man isn’t a journalist.

[tshile]

@No Excuses

 

that is an awful read. the antifa and militant liberal wing of this country are bordering on domestic terrorists at this point. They’re inline with the various right wing militia groups. 

 

Awful people. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

Wake me up when Antifa kills someone like right-wing terror groups have done. 

 

Left wing groups pouring milkshake or beating up a troll journalist is not the same as actually murdering people like right wing groups have done since the early 1900s.

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

Violence from the right is now an accepted part of American society while any violent act from the left is seen as unAmerican. There is a reason why that’s happening. (It’s making you fascist and uoenno it)

 

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/06/11/accusations-mirror-how-radical-right-blames-rising-political-violence-left

 

Quote

For a large swath of extremists on the far right, violence is the ultimate goal; it’s not a desire they try to hide. On social media and white nationalist platforms, they openly pine for the opportunity to attack and kill leftists and fantasize about a potential civil war. It’s why so many white nationalists recently looked more fondly upon the Proud Boys, a group they once derided for, among other inadequacies, embracing “Western culture” rather than white identity. They’ve chosen to overlook their lack of radical credentials for one reason: the Proud Boys’ battles against leftists at the dozen or so “free speech” rallies last summer and fall produced a steady supply of propaganda for them to exploit.

 

The hope is that these images will work to radicalize mainstream conservatives – or, at the very least, convince them that a growing leftist threat is afoot. Right-wing extremists are trying to foster the already deep distrust that’s left Americans politically and socially fractured to accelerate a potentially violent conflict between left and right. The “violent left” narrative is dangerous not only because it heightens already raised suspicions, but also because it can be used to delegitimize genuine political activism and justify right-wing acts of violence and even terrorism

 

 

 

 

Quote

The specter of the “violent left” has been one of the main animating forces in the radical right in recent years. But it’s just that – a specter. It’s not a rising campaign of terror, but a phantasm. To believe in the myth of the unhinged, violent left is to ignore the reality that the far right is responsible for the vast majority of political violence.

Between 2014 and 2018, men radicalized in racist online spaces killed 81 people and injured 104 others. In 2018, “every single extremist killing” – 50 total – “had a link to right-wing extremism,” according to a report by the Anti-Defamation League, and 78% of those were white supremacists. Racists killed 13 people in October alone. A man in Kentucky gunned down two black people in a grocery store and, only days later, white nationalist Robert Bowers was charged with killing 11 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue. That same week, Cesar Sayoc was arrested for allegedly sending 13 explosive devices to prominent Democrats frequently demonized by the right-wing press.

This year has shown that the white power movement is a transnational threat. In March, an Australian man killed 50 Muslim worshippers at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. His acts and those of other violent white nationalists before him inspired 19-year-old John Earnest, who faces federal hate crime charges following a shooting at California synagogue that left one worshipper dead and injured several others.

There is a segment of the far left that, at times, eschews non-violence. They have shown up to political rallies armed with weapons prepared to do battle in the streets. Anti-fascist protesters committed significant property damage during inauguration day protests. Later that year, Rep. Steve Scalise was shot on a baseball field by a man who expressed support for left-wing policies on social media. But left-wing violence has been declining for decades. On the whole, the incidents the right can point to as evidence of rising leftist violence are minor (including throwing eggs, water bottles and, most recently, milkshakes) – and often highly exaggerated by those citing them – in comparison to the terroristic acts and mass murders committed by men like Roof.

 

Antifa is also not what the far right makes it out to be. The loose network of anti-fascist organizers employ several (sometimes violent) tactics, but they are hardly the powerful, shadowy, billionaire-backed group the far right often describes. What is in reality a very small movement has become the boogeyman of the far right, and one they often incorrectly use as a stand-in for the left as a whole.

 

Most people who engage in protests and activism related to leftist causes are simply exercising their right to free speech. At protests, where crowds during the Trump era have overwhelmingly been made up of those somewhere on the left of the political spectrum, the right claims responsibility for the most egregious acts of violence.

 

Again, both sides 

[LadySkinsFan]

The Right uses the "leftist violence" propaganda to deflect their own violence as a fear mechanism. 

 

What needs to happen is to call out their violence and stand up to their fear -producing selves. 

 

That's hard to do, and I am one who went back into the closet due to fear of physical attacks where I live. I am a bit physically impaired, my gun is for self protection in my apartment. 

[FunkedUp]

10 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

He has spent the last few years antagonizing left wing activists. And I know who he is and who he has written for, the man isn’t a journalist.

 

Textbook victim blaming. You wouldn't be suggesting Andy's skirt was too short?

 

I mean Eipstein's victims were just prostitutes looking to enrich themselves. 

[FunkedUp]

6 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

Violence from the right is now an accepted part of American society while any violent act from the left is seen as unAmerican.

 

Violence from the right is not accepted. It is condemmed by the vast majority of Americans. Those who commit right oriented political violence are treated as pariah, the media condemms them, the criminal justice system effectively seeks to arrest them, and the courts hold them accountable. 

 

The concern with the political violence from the extreme-Left is that a large swath of society condones it. Social media and MSM prop it up - some even encouraging it - and our civic institutions are not holding the perputrators accountable. 

 

If I understand your logic, Antifas victims are actually bad actors who deserve the violence inficted upon them? A violence that is an escalating response to non-violent political action. If that is so, can't you see how Antifa and other similar groups are also antagonists?  Would society tacitly condone a larger violent response against Antifa? I certainly wouldn't, but your arguments give precedence to those who would. This is dangerous. 

 

6 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Left wing groups pouring milkshake or beating up a troll journalist is not the same as actually murdering people like right wing groups have done since the early 1900s.

 

Again milkshaking and mob assauliting a journalist is an escalation in violence. Violence that you and many other in key institutions are egging on. This will escalate, it already has.  As most probably know, an Antifa terrorist attempted to blow up a federal detention center, without concern for whether illegal immigrants, government employees or public at large would have been killed. The energy inside your echo chamber is getting super-charged and threatening to explode. You will not win the hearts and minds of the vast majority who live outside that echo chamber when that does happen. 

[Llevron]

Someone argue the facts/ stats Benning provided. I know an argument can be made and I would like to read it. 

 

I dont wanna see any made up bull**** about "The MSM condones antifa violence" or any of that dumb made up ****. Argue the facts provided pls. If you are ignoring that, all you have left is your misguided opinion that doesn't sound biased at all. 

 

[bearrock]

8 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Wake me up when Antifa kills someone like right-wing terror groups have done. 

 

Left wing groups pouring milkshake or beating up a troll journalist is not the same as actually murdering people like right wing groups have done since the early 1900s.

 

Yes, congratulations to them for clearing that low, really low bar.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Just a reminder that silently kneeling in protest is seen as “radical” and “anti-american” by the alt-right.

[PeterMP]

3 hours ago, FunkedUp said:

The concern with the political violence from the extreme-Left is that a large swath of society condones it. Social media and MSM prop it up - some even encouraging it - and our civic institutions are not holding the perputrators accountable. 

 

You were doing well, and I was agreeing with a lot of what you were saying.  But then you lost me here.

 

Let's skip the large swath of society condones it because I suspect there are no large scale polls on it.   I'll also skip the social media part because I suspect you can find people on both sides "propping" up violence on both sides.

 

So in terms of MSM, can you back that up?  Where has MSM treated left wing violence different than right wing violence?

 

Where have our civic institutions not held left wing perpetrators not accountable to an extent they have right wing (for similar crimes)?

 

You went from making pretty good points to my side is unfairly persecuted conspiracy theory like stuff pretty quickly.

 

(Violence should loudly and regularly be condemned.  Who did it to whom should not matter.  If somebody got beat up, especially, if they weren't being violent, it shouldn't matter what they were doing, what they did, or who they hang out with.

 

That should be obvious and not something that needs to be said.

 

But apparently it does.)

8 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Left wing groups pouring milkshake or beating up a troll journalist is not the same as actually murdering people like right wing groups have done since the early 1900s.

 

Nobody said it was the same.

 

But two wrongs (even if one is less than another) does not make a right.

[No Excuses]

Antifa in some ways is purely reactionary to the existence of right wing gangs. I can’t think of any incidents where antifa went around terrorizing regular citizens in areas that are predominantly right wing communities.

 

All of the crap that goes on in Portland is because Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys have decided that hosting weekly rallies to intimidate locals in one of the most liberal cities in America is a good way to get attention and provoke a reaction from Antifa. Just last week, a Patriot Prayer organizer was caught on video on talking about terrorizing a Portland bar owned by a Jewish business owner where left wing activists typically gather.

 

Antifa, right or wrong, sees itself as a counter reaction to the militant right anytime it decides to organize and intimidate liberal communities (Charlottesville is another example). 

[Bozo the kKklown]

31 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Nobody said it was the same.

 

But two wrongs (even if one is less than another) does not make a right.

I am not saying two wrongs make a right. I’m saying left-wing violence gets more scrutiny than right-wing violence.

[FunkedUp]

54 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Someone argue the facts/ stats Benning provided. I know an argument can be made and I would like to read it. 

 

I dont wanna see any made up bull**** about "The MSM condones antifa violence" or any of that dumb made up ****. Argue the facts provided pls. If you are ignoring that, all you have left is your misguided opinion that doesn't sound biased at all. 

 

 

In all of the cases Benning provided the assailant was arrested - or killed when attempting to apprehend the perputrator - and justice has either been served or is in process. Has any individual been arrested in the case of Andy Ngo's assault or the other assaults committed in that same event?

42 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

So in terms of MSM, can you back that up?  Where has MSM treated left wing violence different than right wing violence?

 

Where have our civic institutions not held left wing perpetrators not accountable to an extent they have right wing (for similar crimes)?

 

1) Here is one example of a CNN expose seemingly very favourable of Antifa in which the host glorifies Antifa weapons. 

A follow-up tweet asking the public to support the group. 

 

2) Assault with a deadly (I am not sure that is accurate by legal definition) weapon by far left motivated violence results in probation. https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/08/08/eric-clanton-takes-3-year-probation-deal-in-berkeley-rally-bike-lock-assault-case.

 

Assault with deadly weapons by far right motivated violence results in prison terms. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/charlottesville-rally-attacker-deandre-harris-daniel-borden-white-supremacist-virginia-a8719426.html

 

 

[tshile]

57 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Someone argue the facts/ stats Benning provided. I know an argument can be made and I would like to read it. 

 

I dont wanna see any made up bull**** about "The MSM condones antifa violence" or any of that dumb made up ****. Argue the facts provided pls. If you are ignoring that, all you have left is your misguided opinion that doesn't sound biased at all. 

 

 

Argue how?

 

no one is saying right wing violence is ok. 

 

Hes the only one in downplaying violence

[tshile]

17 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I am not saying two wrongs make a right. I’m saying left-wing violence gets more scrutiny than right-wing violence.

I guess it depends on where you’re looking for scrutiny

 

where I go for political news and opinions (including this board) right wing violence is not only condemned but a major part of their coverage

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

Hes the only one in downplaying violence

I am not downplaying anything.

 

I am calling out BS.  One, Andy Ngo is a troll who has been out there attempting to spark something with these groups. I am not downplaying him being attacked. What I am saying is if you play with fire it will hurt you. Do not touch things that are hot and all those stuff that our parents warned us about doing. That's what Ngo has done and he is doing it simply to say "these left-wing groups are the real dangers." Which has lead to Ted Cruz to author a bill wanting those groups to be domestic terrorists, while the actual domestic terrorists on the right he has been quiet about. The KKK isn't classified as a domestic terrorist group, ffs. Sit down and think about that. 

 

Secondly, you made the factually incorrect statement saying left-wing groups like Antifa are "in-line" with the right-wing groups and militias that have sparked up and caused actual violence over the last 30 years. That's where I posted the data that you said "how can I counter." My post was in response to your nonsense.

[Bozo the kKklown]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

where I go for political news and opinions (including this board) right wing violence is not only condemned but a major part of their coverage

 

And now a troll media personality is receiving coverage close to that level in many mainstream outlets for getting punched and a milkshake dumped on him.

[tshile]

10 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I am not downplaying anything.

Yes you are. 

 

You have a history of posted excusing and tacitly condoning it. You are to antifa violence what what the gop is to racism - defending it by changing the subject every time it’s brought up. 

 

You’ve made multiple posts saying/suggesting you believe violence is what’s needed to bring about the political change you want. 

 

I’m not really familiar with the hard right/alt-right presence here over time because it wasn’t really going on when I started posting in political threads here (most people who might be that were either chased off or banned) but from what I’ve seen you’re the one who’s spent time and time against playing games about antifa all in efforts to support it even if just passively. 

11 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

One, Andy Ngo is a troll who has been out there attempting to spark something with these groups. I am not downplaying him being attacked.

 

One of these sentences contradicts the other. 

 

And I didn’t even have to splice them together. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

9 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Wake me up when Antifa kills someone like right-wing terror groups have done. 

 

Left wing groups pouring milkshake or beating up a troll journalist is not the same as actually murdering people like right wing groups have done since the early 1900s.

Yeah but it’s also not ok, either.

17 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I am not downplaying anything.

Yes you are.

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

18 minutes ago, tshile said:

You are to antifa violence what what the gop is to racism - defending it by changing the subject every time it’s brought up. 

You’ve made multiple posts saying you believe violence is what’s needed to bring about the political change you want. 

LMAO.

 

I defend Antifa because they aren't doing anything except countering the right-wing groups attempting to incite violence at rallies or even normal bars like the Proud Boys have done across the west coast. I defend Antifa because fascism is inherently violent no matter what Richard Spencer, Ted Cruz, etc try to say. It is a violent cause. You literally have to punch these people and embarrass them. I am sorry, wearing a pink p*ssy hat isn't going to stop those people. Like I said before, wake me up when Antifa is carrying out violent plots against people. The closest we have is the guy trying to destroy the immigrant concentration camp. It's terrible, but no one steps back and says "hey, we have an actual concentration camp" in America and our congress decided to give it more money with no accountability. It doesn't make what that guy did right, but I look at the bigger picture. Has an Antifa leader been given media interviews and profiles as Gavin McInnis has? Or Richard Spencer?

 

Comparing that to the GOP and racism is absurd and extremely lazy. 

 

And what I have said is America is an extremely violent country. Voting is how we create the political changes I want and being part of the political process. But I know how this country is and how violent it can be when you attempt to upset the status quo in order to help people and change society. The Civil War was that. Jim Crow in the south was that. Police brutality and redlining were that in the north. The response to the Civil Rights movement was that. The response to the anti-war movement was that. Shoot, police brutality and police killings are that right now. That isn't me saying I want violence, it's me knowing this country's history. You whittling down my very clear statement about wanting political change to me wanting violence is actually akin to the GOP explaining away racism. 

 

18 minutes ago, tshile said:

I’m not really familiar with the hard right/alt-right presence here over time because it wasn’t really going on when I started posting in political threads here (most people who might be that were either chased off or banned) but from what I’ve seen you’re the one who’s spent time and time against playing games about antifa all in efforts to support it even if just passively. 

I support stomping out Nazis and right-wing extremist groups. I do not support terrorism.  That's the game you play when you take little snippets of statements and try and craft a narrative.

[Bozo the kKklown]

7 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah but it’s also not ok, either.

And I have said before is that these two things are not the same yet people want to treat them as the same. And there is a reason for that.

 

If you haven't noticed, I have never defended the guy who shot Steve Scalise even tho Scalise is a borderline Nazi.

[PeterMP]

Violence of any kind attracts people that like violence.  It is a bad assumption to think that your group can be only violent in a certain manner.

 

Violent people are violent and will be drawn to groups that are violent.  And once drawn to that group will create new opportunities for violence.

 

Left, right, center it doesn't matter.  History is full of examples.

4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

And I have said before is that these two things are not the same yet people want to treat them as the same. And there is a reason for that.

 

If you haven't noticed, I have never defended the guy who shot Steve Scalise even tho Scalise is a borderline Nazi.

 

But nobody here has claimed they are the same.  Here today, you are excusing (or at least minimizing) one based on a rational that isn't valid.

[Bozo the kKklown]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

But nobody here has claimed they are the same.  Here today, you are excusing (or at least minimizing) one based on a rational that isn't valid.

You did read @tshile's post saying left-wing groups are "in-line" with right-wing groups and bordering on domestic terrorism? That was him saying they are the same. Me dismissing that was a response to that post.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

13 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

If you haven't noticed, I have never defended the guy who shot Steve Scalise

That’s awful sporting of you.