Redskins Have A lot Of Linebackers. Who Do We Keep?

[XxSpearheadxX]

I bet we see how things shake out the first 3 weeks and if there are no injuries and the team feels good about murphy we trade one - probably smith. Someonr will need a 3-4 olb

[skinny21]

My guess is that we keep 5 OLBs.  Barring injuries, I think Trail makes the team and then goes to PS when Murphy returns.

 

 

[bedlamVR]

It's not just calling the play (Compton) it is having the awareness and confidence to make adjustments based on what he sees on the field . 

 

This is why Riley and Robinson(?) ( former longhorn guy who signed with giants ... ) flunked so badly without fletcher ... fletcher was way beyond his best in that last comeback year and physically we had better players ... but when your lbs cannot translate the call into what needs to be done on the field and making sure everyone is in the right positions then everyone looks bad ... 

 

it is akin to asking why is Kirk out Qb and not RGiii ... if all it is shouting out the play that the OC just radioed in ... 

 

it it is why I think Swerenger is going to be an asset because he can co-ordinate the secondary on the field ... people question his talent on the field given he has bounced around the league but I think what he needed was time to grow his confidence and become a leader on the field .... with those kinds of players they make players around them better and it is odd that it is normally the guys with the physical talents lack the cerebral aspect - think Ryan Clark and Sean Taylor ... ( I have no doubt Taylor would have got it but Clark helped get the most out of Taylor in the years they played together)  

[Audible_Red40]

On ‎2017‎-‎08‎-‎01 at 2:27 PM, returnofthefunbunch said:

Watch out for Chris Carter as well.  I really wouldn't be surprised to see Preston Smith cut after Murphy gets back from suspension. Ryan Anderson plays that role, and I think he will be much better.  (Assuming everyone stays healthy)  I hope he comes along and becomes more productive and consistent.  I'm just not sure it's going to happen.  I am curious to see Zach Brown in a game situation as well. 

Chris Carter is nothing more then special teams depth at this point.  He has played for 5 teams in 6 years for a reason and has 37 career tackles and zero sacks.

 

He is not taking a roster spot from Preston or Trent.

[returnofthefunbunch]

1 hour ago, Audible_Red40 said:

Chris Carter is nothing more then special teams depth at this point.  He has played for 5 teams in 6 years for a reason and has 37 career tackles and zero sacks.

 

He is not taking a roster spot from Preston or Trent.

I didn't mean to insinuate that Carter would be taking a olb spot from Smith.  However, if he is a special teams standout, he will be taking a lb spot.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, returnofthefunbunch said:

I didn't mean to insinuate that Carter would be taking a olb spot from Smith.  However, if he is a special teams standout, he will be taking a lb spot.

There's no way he makes the roster.

[CTskin]

6 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

It's not just calling the play (Compton) it is having the awareness and confidence to make adjustments based on what he sees on the field . 

 

This is why Riley and Robinson(?) ( former longhorn guy who signed with giants ... ) flunked so badly without fletcher ... fletcher was way beyond his best in that last comeback year and physically we had better players ... but when your lbs cannot translate the call into what needs to be done on the field and making sure everyone is in the right positions then everyone looks bad ... 

 

it is akin to asking why is Kirk out Qb and not RGiii ... if all it is shouting out the play that the OC just radioed in ... 

 

I understand your point. Here's the thing, London was a wealth of knowledge and experience. There are very few MLBs who he should be compared to and Compton certainly shouldn't be one of them; he'll never change a defense like that. We saw the result of Compton's amazing playcalling ability last year... terrible. Don't forget, even when London was falling apart, he was still playing at an above average level.

 

Not to get into story time, but I always watched games with the same buddies and early on in the season the self-depreciating jokes started "there we go again, looking completely lost, everyone yelling at everyone..." Pre-snap, we were an absolute mess. I remember sitting back and realizing that I'd never before seen such obvious dysfunction before, so many players were on different pages. I know Berry was an idiot, but Compton certainly did nothing special to help. 

[skinny21]

42 minutes ago, CTskin said:

I understand your point. Here's the thing, London was a wealth of knowledge and experience. There are very few MLBs who he should be compared to and Compton certainly shouldn't be one of them; he'll never change a defense like that. We saw the result of Compton's amazing playcalling ability last year... terrible. Don't forget, even when London was falling apart, he was still playing at an above average level.

 

Not to get into story time, but I always watched games with the same buddies and early on in the season the self-depreciating jokes started "there we go again, looking completely lost, everyone yelling at everyone..." Pre-snap, we were an absolute mess. I remember sitting back and realizing that I'd never before seen such obvious dysfunction before, so many players were on different pages. I know Berry was an idiot, but Compton certainly did nothing special to help. 

Hard to disagree with this... but if Barry was as bad as it seemed, I could envision 1) Compton trying to make the best of a bad situation 2) some players resisting the play calls.  

 

You know how sometimes the harder you try try to achieve something, the worse the results?  That sounds wrong... what I mean is - remember how players talked about not trying to be heroes and just sticking to the play call?  Maybe that had an affect on Compton - either as a player, or as a leader.  Here's hoping anyway, lol.  

[CTskin]

8 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Hard to disagree with this... but if Barry was as bad as it seemed, I could envision 1) Compton trying to make the best of a bad situation 2) some players resisting the play calls.  

 

You know how sometimes the harder you try try to achieve something, the worse the results?  That sounds wrong... what I mean is - remember how players talked about not trying to be heroes and just sticking to the play call?  Maybe that had an affect on Compton - either as a player, or as a leader.  Here's hoping anyway, lol.  

That is all possible. Hearing the rumors about Bree and Duke being unhappy could very well have made a bad situation worse. In a perfect world, our coaching situation will now be under control, any unhappiness in the secondary has fizzled out, and Brown or Foster will step up and call the plays so we won't have to hope that Compton learns how to play at the professional level. 

 

Compton was a good story last year, we all crushed on him, but seeing zero improvement over the course of the season gives me little hope that we'll see anything different this year. For as "cerebral" as he was, he was always a deer in headlights for a second after the snap and consistently didn't fill running lanes and got to plays after they were made (after a solid gain). I joke that "we only had 10 on the field," but he just brings so little to the table in the talent department.

 

I hate "hating on" any Redskins, but when it comes to him, Grant, and Luvao, I just can't help myself. It really reminds me of high school/pop warner when kids would play because they were the coach's pet or son.

[RandyHolt]

My theory of both Compton and Brown starting is taking shape.

 

Quote

On Thursday, Will Compton and Zach Brown took the field together with the first group, and that duo was on the field for the final 2-minute drill of the session. It's starting to look like Mason Foster will be the third interior linebacker, and while he will still play plenty, it seems Compton and Brown will be the starters.

 

 

[Rex Tomb]

Love it? Hate it? I can't tell.

[RandyHolt]

My enthusiasm of getting a stud MLB is now tempered since I had thought he was our new Mike.  I am assuming Compton is still Mike, I generally hate using guys out of their natural positions (main reason why I hate the 3-4) and it is countered by getting the best 11 out there.

 

While i do want an upgrade for Compton, I am likely the only one that thinks Compton CAN'T be as bad as he looked last year. He just can't.  Seriously in my history of watching games I have never seen a player slower to react after the snap, that leads to poor angles, missed tackles etc. Compton wasn't that slow under Haslett - and admittedly he was just meh.  It's like he wasn't used to being so late to react, you know.? He'd never get drafted if this was the tape on him.  How can he be so bad yet a new DC still has him as a starter.   Compton failed my eye test so badly, it points to something else in play.

 

Basically, that Joe Barry was worse - specifically in how he used Compton.  Clearly Manusky and Jay still like Compton - Scot liked Compton.... Allen <cringing> - the experts, which should carry more weight here than it seems to.  

[Koolblue13]

On 8/3/2017 at 9:19 AM, CTskin said:

I understand your point. Here's the thing, London was a wealth of knowledge and experience. There are very few MLBs who he should be compared to and Compton certainly shouldn't be one of them; he'll never change a defense like that. We saw the result of Compton's amazing playcalling ability last year... terrible. Don't forget, even when London was falling apart, he was still playing at an above average level.

 

Not to get into story time, but I always watched games with the same buddies and early on in the season the self-depreciating jokes started "there we go again, looking completely lost, everyone yelling at everyone..." Pre-snap, we were an absolute mess. I remember sitting back and realizing that I'd never before seen such obvious dysfunction before, so many players were on different pages. I know Berry was an idiot, but Compton certainly did nothing special to help. 

Remember we were hearing about how the defense was so good and prepared that they were calling the offenses plays out and Compton was a master in the middle? It was awesome, until we were about 3 minutes into the Steelers game and we realized how unprepared we were for the season.

[DC Lumber Co.]

On 8/1/2017 at 11:42 PM, Koolblue13 said:

 

Remember Murphy doesn't count for the first 4 weeks, because he'll be suspended.

Barring injury at OLB, this is one of the main reasons I would love to hear the coaching staff use his time off to bulk him back up and have him take one of the DL roster spots. I just don't see how the numbers game works out any other way barring poor play or injury.

[Koolblue13]

59 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

Barring injury at OLB, this is one of the main reasons I would love to hear the coaching staff use his time off to bulk him back up and have him take one of the DL roster spots. I just don't see how the numbers game works out any other way barring poor play or injury.

They're saying Murphy is easily the second best pass rusher in camp, behind Galette. 

 

He's always been solid against the run. Probably our best OLB against the run.

 

Why on earth would you move him out of position? He could be our best OLB by next season, if not sooner.

[DC Lumber Co.]

On 8/2/2017 at 2:11 PM, CTskin said:

Haven't heard a lick of positive news about our $9M/yr DL acquisitions, McGee and McClain... Still early, but many of us were down on the pickups from the start. If both aren't clear-cut starters then it's more poorly spent cap space and we can add them to the "told ya so Bruce" list.

 

Told ya so Scot*. Scot wasn't fired til the draft and he set the FA priority list with Swearinger being #1. I'm sure Tomsula had a say as well on the DL acquisitions. As much as fans want to, you can't blame everything on Bruce n Danny.

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

They're saying Murphy is easily the second best pass rusher in camp, behind Galette. 

 

He's always been solid against the run. Probably our best OLB against the run.

 

Why on earth would you move him out of position? He could be our best OLB by next season, if not sooner.

 

Open to that being the case. Was just going off the coaching staff having already attempted the position switch. If he is our second best OLB, I guess the other option is bulking Smith or trade/cut week 4? It's a cluster F, no matter how you slice it. Other teams are going to pick up a lot of our cuts this year.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Told ya so Scot*. Scot wasn't fired til the draft and he set the FA priority list with Swearinger being #1. I'm sure Tomsula had a say as well on the DL acquisitions. As much as fans want to, you can't blame everything on Bruce n Danny.

 

Open to that being the case. Was just going off the coaching staff having already attempted the position switch. If he is our second best OLB, I guess the other option is bulking Smith or trade/cut week 4? It's a cluster F, no matter how you slice it. Other teams are going to pick up a lot of our cuts this year.

How is it a CF if teams are picking up our cuts? That's kind of the goal. 

 

Kerrigan, Galette, Murphy, Smith, Anderson.

Brown, Compton, Foster.

 

Spaight isn't good and he's already injured. If somehow we lose 2/3s of our ILBs, move Cravens back down. Everette should be starting there anyway.

 

The position switch last year also happened when we thought Smith was going to pick up after his rookie season. Now he's the one being moved around to find something he can do.

[DC Lumber Co.]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

How is it a CF if teams are picking up our cuts? That's kind of the goal. 

 

Kerrigan, Galette, Murphy, Smith, Anderson.

Brown, Compton, Foster.

 

Spaight isn't good and he's already injured. If somehow we lose 2/3s of our ILBs, move Cravens back down. Everette should be starting there anyway.

 

The position switch last year also happened when we thought Smith was going to pick up after his rookie season. Now he's the one being moved around to find something he can do.

 

Cutting talent isnt the cluster. Deciding who to keep is. 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Cutting talent isnt the cluster. Deciding who to keep is. 

I'd say it's the goal.

[SkinsGuy]

On 8/2/2017 at 2:11 PM, CTskin said:

Haven't heard a lick of positive news about our $9M/yr DL acquisitions, McGee and McClain... Still early, but many of us were down on the pickups from the start. If both aren't clear-cut starters then it's more poorly spent cap space and we can add them to the "told ya so Bruce" list.

 

 

After just one week of camp, you are ready to declare victory in your thoughts and call these guys failures?  

 

Relax. We still have the rest of camp and the preseason to go.

 

Let's at least give them the first third of the regular season before we make any declarations about them. 

[DC Lumber Co.]

3 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

After just one week of camp, you are ready to declare victory in your thoughts and call these guys failures?  

 

Relax. We still have the rest of camp and the preseason to go.

 

Let's at least give them the first third of the regular season before we make any declarations about them. 

 

Agreed. I'm confident that an average to above-average starter will emerge from the two. As I mentioned earlier, everyone wants to bash the signings as if they were all Bruce's doing, but in reality GMSM set the free agency priority list. He was seemingly justified to have Swearinger as the #1 target, so I wouldn't write off both McGee and McClain so quickly.

 

While I understand a level of pessimism given the known fact that free agents fail to live up to expectations more often than they meet/exceed them...I like the odds of at least one of the two being solid for us. At the same time, we also should know all too well that you can't build sustainable success spending your cap space on big FA contracts. You target value in FA. Be it Pryor due to his position switch/having 1 good year, guys coming off injury/suspension, a cheap vet that was written off for age that can still be a solid player/depth (Will Blackmon), or the types that plug holes until you draft/develop the young talent that will fix the position the correct way (which I believe is the case here). I don't care what the Giants did to their defense in one off-season via FA, it's not the way you build a team. I NEVER want to go back to being Kings of the off-season just because of an outlier group of signings... the Giants are the exception not the rule. They also probably justified the strategy as going all-in to try and capitalize on the quickly closing window of opportunity before Eli's retirement.

 

PFF ratings and stats are great and all, they give us confidence in some of our signings like Swearinger and Pryor, sure. But they also can't predict future success. Swearinger would have gotten TRASHED just like McClain and McGee are, if he was signed a couple years ago. That's exactly why position coaches get paid to coach and why we have a pro player scout.

 

We should all understand by now that this team builds through the draft first and foremost with free agency second. You take chances on guys in free agency like McGee and McClain based on potential. Guys that have flashed in moments on their teams but haven't hit their potential yet, or ones that you see miscast in their current situation and flourishing in a different scheme (both are going from 4-3 DTs to 3-4 DEs) I also like that we have a D-line coach in Tomsula that is known very well for making players out of nobodies. He most certainly had a large input in both the McGee and McClain signings (and I weigh his opinion a lot higher than the anti-Bruce/Dan sect of the fanbase that bash every signing that isn't a proven high-level talent)

 

The failure rate of free agents is high as hell, even for the big contract guys. Because at the end of the day, if they were so good the team that let them walk would have found a way to keep them on the roster. I like our current approach to FA.

 

I think we will be just fine with a DE-by-committee approach opposite Jonathan Allen for our base defense we aren't even in that often, and I'm also not writing off Lanier or Ioannidis being pleasant surprises at the spot either.

[RandyHolt]

Maybe we aren't getting any reports on the McBros because they are just not sexy pickups. Lets face it, ends in a 3-4 just don't get much press. Our annual guessing game of who our nose may be, is something that always gets reported.   Allen is getting ink, because he is a 1st rounder and fans want to hear a report on him.  Philip Daniels a stout prototypical 34LDE never got any love in week 1 of camp if ever. All I remember him for was wrenching Peyton's head off, and posting here.

 

The big thing to me is that McGee reported at 341 which reeks of having beefed up for nose (assuming he wasn't that high last year). I think its safe to say that isn't happening, and is the big news here. It also reeks of more 3-4 failures, trying to move players out of their natural position and hoping for the best.  So we try to change them back after massive weight gain/loss and again hope for the best. 

[DC Lumber Co.]

44 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

1. Maybe we aren't getting any reports on the McBros because they are just not sexy pickups. Lets face it, ends in a 3-4 just don't get much press.

 

2. The big thing to me is that McGee reported at 341 which reeks of having beefed up for nose (assuming he wasn't that high last year). I think its safe to say that isn't happening, and is the big news here. It also reeks of more 3-4 failures, trying to move players out of their natural position and hoping for the best.  So we try to change them back after massive weight gain/loss and again hope for the best. 

 

1. Another very valid point. I mean even Allen is getting less press than your average 1st rounder to be honest. You could be spot on here.

 

2. Not doubting you, I just didn't catch this news. Could you link me to the report of his weigh-in? And unless they are bulking McGee on purpose, I don't think anyone is playing out of position thus far, imho. You could say that about last year with an end forced to play nose (Ziggy) or the experiment of Murphy bulking up to play 5-tech, but afaik everyone is playing their natural position this year. Unless you think all of our OLBs are miscast as stand up rushers and should have their hand in the dirt? But very few college programs run a 3-4 for any in the pros to not be playing "out of position" anyway, hence why we've seen the increase in use of the "EDGE" moniker by draftniks, as 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB are differentiated only by the team that drafts them depending on the scheme they run, respectively.

[RandyHolt]

8 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

Not doubting you, I just didn't catch this news. Could you link me to the report of his weigh-in? ....

 

I have no link, in an early post stated that I didn't think he was 341 in Oakland.  I thought he played end, or that we brought him in to play end - and may be wrong. 341 is an awful big edge end, isn't it? If we signed a 341 pound vet today, I cannot be the only one to assume he is going to be tried at nose. That weight doesn't fit anywhere else in a 3-4, at least a prototypical. Of course, we are a hybrid but still 341 is BIG. Also, when guys gain a lot of weight, there often isn't much fanfare. Kedric was the previous Golem, and we know what happened to him.

 

I assume this is the weigh in number - I like to sort by weight http://www.redskins.com/team/roster.html

 

Possible out of best position guys. Not Gallette, not Anderson but we dont know how he will do in 66% of the time out of 3-4. We know now that Murphy failed a test after a breakout year so the jury is out on him. Brown is a Mike morphing to Will as I type. Kerrigan was the top 4-3 end in college.  I hate seeing him in pass coverage and seems weak against the run having lost weight.  Preston has not lived up to a 2nd rounder billing.  We are told all DL will  be used in all spots. Will those guys all do equally well in playing the different techs.... i tend to doubt it. A guy like Allen, maybe is the exception.

[DC Lumber Co.]

43 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I have no link, in an early post stated that I didn't think he was 341 in Oakland.  I thought he played end, or that we brought him in to play end - and may be wrong. 341 is an awful big edge end, isn't it? If we signed a 341 pound vet today, I cannot be the only one to assume he is going to be tried at nose. That weight doesn't fit anywhere else in a 3-4, at least a prototypical. Of course, we are a hybrid but still 341 is BIG. Also, when guys gain a lot of weight, there often isn't much fanfare. Kedric was the previous Golem, and we know what happened to him.

 

I assume this is the weigh in number - I like to sort by weight http://www.redskins.com/team/roster.html

 

Possible out of best position guys. Not Gallette, not Anderson but we dont know how he will do in 66% of the time out of 3-4. We know now that Murphy failed a test after a breakout year so the jury is out on him. Brown is a Mike morphing to Will as I type. Kerrigan was the top 4-3 end in college.  I hate seeing him in pass coverage and seems weak against the run having lost weight.  Preston has not lived up to a 2nd rounder billing.  We are told all DL will  be used in all spots. Will those guys all do equally well in playing the different techs.... i tend to doubt it. A guy like Allen, maybe is the exception.

 

That is really surprising about McGees weight, good find. Although large for a 5-tech, players that big playing end isn't completely unprecedented. It all really depends on how he carries the weight. If it was his playing weight in Oakland it didn't seem to hamper his quickness too terribly. It could also be a positive, giving him the versatility to play some Nose in addition to his primary DE position. Definitely worth keeping an eye on, thanks again for pointing it out.

 

In regards to the others, your first few points are valid but Brown has actually always been more of a Will his entire career. Rarely ever calling plays and seems to excel rather when he can flow freely and be the tackling machine.

 

I'm also not of the opinion that Kerrigan struggles against the run. It's way too early to have a definitive answer on Smith. He was great his rookie year and you don't give up on a 2nd round pick just for a sophomore slump. 

 

And I think we preach versatility along the line simply to mix up the looks we give opposing offensive lines occasionally, not to play them out of position more often than not. Our ends also must know how to play the 3-tech for when we go to 4 man fronts and they kick inside to DT. It's also important for cohesion if the entire line understands all techniques, not only for playing it themselves but for knowing the assignments and tendencies of the players lined up next to them.

 

We've had terrible talent, depth, and coaching on defense lately. With our safeties and corners the past few years we would have been terrible regardless of the scheme the front 7 played.