The Sewer That Is The GOP: With All The White Supremacists, Conspiracy Nutters, And Other Malicious Whacko Subgroups, How Does It Get Fixed?

[LadySkinsFan]

56 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Re: The DSG bill in Florida

 

My wife would be supportive of the "don't say gay" bill.  We were actually talking about it last night in front of our teenage kids.  Her point was 12-14 is too early for kids to think about sexual identity and kids could get "confused" about their "God-given heterosexuality" -- quotes used to characterize how she honestly thinks.  I didn't want to open the can of worms regarding depression and suicide rates for gay kids.  

 

Her example was a family friend whose daughter is big, taller, athletic and for some reason is thinking guys won't date her.  Maybe she is bullied in school, maybe she starts to wonder or question if she is gay because she is athletic.  Or two guys who hang out all the time as friends, like my son and his best friend.  They are making YouTube videos all the time, etc. hanging out going to movies.  People start to talk about them like they are gay.   By people talking about them it influences their mind boom! they are suddenly gay. 

 

We discussed the example of Andi Mack (Disney show with a gay character) and how Christians will cancel DisneyPlus over a drag queen in Pinoccio movie or as my son likes to say "the token gay kid on any Netflix series".   My wife is completly uncomfortable with homosexual talk (even sex talk in general).

 

I always end up losing on this conversation / sometimes conflict because I believe and try to express to my kids:

1) No matter how much money you pay me, I will never be attracted to a man.  I couldn't be gay for $10M.   If I flip it around, gay people must feel that they can't be straight for $10M. 

 

2)  We are a Christian family.  How would we  feel if the world treated Christians that way?  "OMG -- there's something wrong with Christians, I don't want to see them on TV -- those Christians everywhere ruining society."   

 

3) I fall on the God made people that way.  Cultures over centuries have been prejudiced against homosexual and the Bible reflects that prejudice.  That's not orthodoxy but it is "loving my neighbor".  

 

 

 

 

 

I knew I was attracted to girls very early. In HS, it was hard because I had crushes on several girls and supressed those feelings to the point that I was promiscuous with boys that lasted to my early 20s. My mother called Lesbians dirty women and I had to overcome that description, it caused a lot of pain. I was so happy when I finally came out a couple of years after I had my daughter. I haven't looked back. 

 

I'm an Atheist too and don't really care what religions have to say about homosexuality or really most things. And as an Atheist, I have a very moral code that may resemble some religious tenets, I don't need religion to guide my life.

[NoCalMike]

1 hour ago, Fergasun said:

Re: The DSG bill in Florida

 

My wife would be supportive of the "don't say gay" bill.  We were actually talking about it last night in front of our teenage kids.  Her point was 12-14 is too early for kids to think about sexual identity and kids could get "confused" about their "God-given heterosexuality" -- quotes used to characterize how she honestly thinks.  I didn't want to open the can of worms regarding depression and suicide rates for gay kids.  

 

 

The confusion likely happens when Adults tell the kids that the feelings they are experiencing are wrong.  That is where the shame & doubt set in.  The adults are the problem, not the children.

[steve09ru]

1 hour ago, Fergasun said:

Re: The DSG bill in Florida

 

My wife would be supportive of the "don't say gay" bill.  We were actually talking about it last night in front of our teenage kids.  Her point was 12-14 is too early for kids to think about sexual identity and kids could get "confused" about their "God-given heterosexuality" -- quotes used to characterize how she honestly thinks.  I didn't want to open the can of worms regarding depression and suicide rates for gay kids.  

 

The thing with the bill though, which I agree with, is it shouldn't be discussed In primary schools  (ie. 5-10 year olds).  If families want to have that discussion then that’s fine (shouldn’t be the education system at this stage) but kids at this stage are still developing and understanding that they no longer can be a dinosaur or unicorn.

 

Also, the bill isn’t stopping teachings of the history that has happened such as the Orlando night club shooting and how certain events occur or a segment of people are targeted.

Edited February 26, 2022 by steve09ru

[NoCalMike]

12 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

The thing with the bill though, which I agree with, is it shouldn't be discussed In primary schools  (ie. 5-10 year olds).  If families want to have that discussion then that’s fine (shouldn’t be the education system at this stage) but kids at this stage are still developing and understanding that they no longer can be a dinosaur or unicorn.

 

I haven't read the finer details of the bill so help me out here what are the parameters of "being discussed?"  I totally get it if say in the middle of math class the teacher shouldn't stop multiplication tables to have a discussion about the trans bathroom issue, however what if the teacher happens to be gay and just in passing says something any other teacher would regarding a trip they and their spouse took over the weekend? Then what if a student raises their hand to question what the teacher just said about their spouse. Does that fall under sexuality being discussed?  

 

See the problem for me is we live in this environment where some parents are just trying to create a make believe bubble of a world around them and it shouldn't be up to the rest of the world to facilitate that bubble.  I don't think a gay teacher should have to hide and/or speak in code when referring to their spouse anymore than a heterosexual teacher does.  This isn't about "sexuality" it is about non hetero-sexuality because it still goes back to the same thing that certain people thing there is something wrong or evil or inherently bad about it that needs to be shielded from their children.  If you that is how you feel, send your kids to a private religious school that reflects those beliefs. 

 

Also, these discussions will be happening during school whether the teacher is involved or not. Most info you get on these topics as a kid, is from other kids, and most of it is anywhere from little white lies to horrendously awful.  There should be room in there somewhere for the teacher to speak up, not lecture or give lesson plans on the topic, but the bill makes it seem like merely bringing it up at all is some type of great miscarriage of justice.

Edited February 26, 2022 by NoCalMike

[steve09ru]

9 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I haven't read the finer details of the bill so help me out here what are the parameters of "being discussed?"  I totally get it if say in the middle of math class the teacher shouldn't stop multiplication tables to have a discussion about the trans bathroom issue, however what if the teach happens to be gay and just in passing say something any other teacher would regarding a trip they and their spouse took over the weekend?  Does that fall under sexuality being discussed?  

From what I’ve read it’s direct teachings to the students unrelated to the subject in the classroom and not steering away from that.  So talking about what has happened for example and why but not guiding kids at that age into a more detailed outcomes

 

So an example would be a 5th grader learning about the Orlando shooting and why but not giving the guidance or normalize (may not be the right word here) that you can be a woman if you’re a man or be attracted to another man.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by steve09ru

[steve09ru]

26 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

See the problem for me is we live in this environment where some parents are just trying to create a make believe bubble of a world around them and it shouldn't be up to the rest of the world to facilitate that bubble.  I don't think a gay teacher should have to hide and/or speak in code when referring to their spouse anymore than a heterosexual teacher does.  This isn't about "sexuality" it is about non hetero-sexuality because it still goes back to the same thing that certain people thing there is something wrong or evil or inherently bad about it that needs to be shielded from their children.  If you that is how you feel, send your kids to a private religious school that reflects those beliefs. 

It’s specific to classroom discussion (both student and teacher).  They can intervene in a classroom discussion setting and shut anything down.  If it’s outside of classroom than it seems to me that it’s open but appears that it’s specific to teachings and open discussion when in a classroom setting.

 

for the last part around religion; we’ve seen religion get pushed to the side from parents who didn’t want those beliefs discussed and taught.  This seems similar to that as well.

[Captain Wiggles]

5 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

for the last part around religion; we’ve seen religion get pushed to the side from parents who didn’t want those beliefs discussed and taught.  This seems similar to that as well.

 

Religion is most certainly discussed as well as taught in public schools tho. Comparative religions classes for example are offered as an elective in a lot of high schools. 

[steve09ru]

1 minute ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Religion is most certainly discussed as well as taught in public schools tho. Comparative religions classes for example are offered as an elective in a lot of high schools. 

Correct but not in base curriculum (and generally when you get post primary).  When it is discussed it’s based off of history and previous findings (multiple religious backgrounds, etc.).  This bill, to me, is moving things in line with religion where there will likely be post primary courses specific to it and more factual historical context vs opinion and self thinking.  Again, fine as kids develop but not something I think should be done in a primary education setting (5-10 year olds).

[Momma There Goes That Man]

15 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Religion is most certainly discussed as well as taught in public schools tho. Comparative religions classes for example are offered as an elective in a lot of high schools. 

i grew up in Botetourt county VA, pretty rural and from grades 2-5 we actually had Bible class every Thursday where we would walk to classroom trailer just past the fence where I assume ended school property, and for an hour, we were taught Christianity by a local pastor. This was just normal and accepted, everyone attended 

[Captain Wiggles]

Religion is taught in most preschools here in NC since the churches are one of the few affordable places that offer it. Everywhere I've lived has been similar. Many kids learn about Christianity from the start. 

 

The notion that religion, specifically Christianity, has been pushed aside in our educational system just isn't true. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, steve09ru said:

The thing with the bill though, which I agree with, is it shouldn't be discussed In primary schools  (ie. 5-10 year olds).  If families want to have that discussion then that’s fine (shouldn’t be the education system at this stage) but kids at this stage are still developing and understanding that they no longer can be a dinosaur or unicorn.

 

Also, the bill isn’t stopping teachings of the history that has happened such as the Orlando night club shooting and how certain events occur or a segment of people are targeted.

 

I’m not quite sure how “discussing” homosexuality with 9 year olds harms them in any way. I can see how making those discussions against the law could harm gay children, though.

[steve09ru]

25 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

Religion is taught in most preschools here in NC since the churches are one of the few affordable places that offer it. Everywhere I've lived has been similar. Many kids learn about Christianity from the start. 

 

The notion that religion, specifically Christianity, has been pushed aside in our educational system just isn't true. 

It has in public schools.  Of course churches will teach it as it’s more private and they lay out the curriculum - it’s something that parents are aware of heading in and have complete transparency with.

29 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

i grew up in Botetourt county VA, pretty rural and from grades 2-5 we actually had Bible class every Thursday where we would walk to classroom trailer just past the fence where I assume ended school property, and for an hour, we were taught Christianity by a local pastor. This was just normal and accepted, everyone attended 

There’s no denying that use to be the case but not the case anymore which was my point in that religion got pushed away from basic curriculum and isn’t  offered like that anymore where it’s a required class like we grew up with.

[steve09ru]

27 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

I’m not quite sure how “discussing” homosexuality with 9 year olds harms them in any way. I can see how making those discussions against the law could harm gay children, though.

It’s two-fold, what if you have a teacher telling them it’s wrong and bad for those who believe that it’s ok based off belief?  Beliefs shouldn’t be pushed on in a school setting (specifically primary but debatable across all) which is why they shouldn’t be a part of base curriculum and offered as an elective for those who wish to explore beliefs

Edited February 26, 2022 by steve09ru

[Captain Wiggles]

LGBTQ curriculum shouldn be included and taught in social studies / history classes. 🖖

[steve09ru]

3 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

LGBTQ curriculum shouldn be included and taught in social studies / history classes. 🖖

Agreed and specific history and events are taught and included.  It’s just the discussion piece on belief by teachers that’s the questionable piece.  And it’s not just LGBTQ that I think, it’s all beliefs.  Offer secondary classes for those that go more in depth and are more philosophical based

[tshile]

I’ll never understand why fairly and truthfully teaching that certain types of people exist, and a general overview of what they’re about, is a bad thing in some peoples eyes. 
 

we teach about every other element in at least some way. Slaves, witch trials, the confederacy, how different classes of immigrants went through difference phases (like Atlantic coast with European immigrants and west coast railroads with Asian immigrants), we teach about womens rights. Why is teaching that LGTBQ people exist, that that had a rough history and we’re sort of just now trying to bring them to first class citizen status, such a bad thing? Here’s a real life thing unfolding in front of your eyes, and the grand plan is to limit teaching children about it? Doesn’t seem smart. 

 

I used to concern myself with the mental maturity of children and the ability to handle

such charged social topics. 
 

Now I have a 6 year old. And a 3 year old. And they see and hear things that lead to asking questions that I used to concern myself so much with. 
 

but what I’ve found is that the conversation is easy. They don’t have built up and fostered hatred or anxiety or misleading about certain things. It turns out they sort of just accept the whole “well, people are different in different ways, which is actually pretty cool cause it’d be real boring if we’re all just the same, and we just try to be nice to everyone” thing quite easily and quickly. 
 

it turns out it’s adults that have a hard time with that concept. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by tshile

[Larry]

2 hours ago, steve09ru said:

The thing with the bill though, which I agree with, is it shouldn't be discussed In primary schools  (ie. 5-10 year olds).  If families want to have that discussion then that’s fine (shouldn’t be the education system at this stage) but kids at this stage are still developing and understanding that they no longer can be a dinosaur or unicorn.

 

No, children at that age should not be taught that when lesbians have sex, this body parts touches this other body part.  

 

Yes, they can be told that Anika has two mommies in her house.  And that no, that doesn't make her mommies evil.  

[tshile]

6 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

And it’s not just LGBTQ that I think, it’s all beliefs.  Offer secondary classes for those that go more in depth and are more philosophical based

I don’t like this idea. 
 

i understand the intent. I think. It’s to offer it but avoid controversy in public schools. And I get it - and given the mask thing now doesn’t really seem like a good time to jump on pushing it further… but, in my opinion, exposing people to a young age to the fact that all these different types of people exist, and you don’t have to be afraid of them they’re just people like you, pays huge dividends down the road for a future adult population trying to figure out how to live together and run the country. 
 

it’s kind of like when you get a puppy. You gotta bring it around other dogs and people. 

[steve09ru]

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/02/08/floridas-dont-say-gay-bills-explained/

2. What does it mean for a district to not “encourage classroom discussion” about gender identity?

This is by far the major sticking point in the legislation. The bill’s sponsors, Baxley and Rep. Joe Harding, R-Williston, say the measure is meant to stop schools from creating curricula geared toward educating young children about gender or sexual orientation before they are mature enough to handle it.

Classroom presentations, school clubs and other less formal discussions between students and teachers involving gender or sexuality would be allowed under the bill, they say.

“Conversations are going to happen,” Harding said at a House committee meeting in January where lawmakers voted to move the bill forward. Children and students ask a lot of questions.”

In an interview Monday, Baxley noted the bill singles out “primary grade levels” — instruction for young kids. Primary school ends in third grade.

13 minutes ago, tshile said:

I don’t like this idea. 
 

i understand the intent. I think. It’s to offer it but avoid controversy in public schools. And I get it - and given the mask thing now doesn’t really seem like a good time to jump on pushing it further… but, in my opinion, exposing people to a young age to the fact that all these different types of people exist, and you don’t have to be afraid of them they’re just people like you, pays huge dividends down the road for a future adult population trying to figure out how to live together and run the country. 
 

it’s kind of like when you get a puppy. You gotta bring it around other dogs and people. 

I get that and that part isnt the issue but it’s runs a slippery slope for this age group specifically.  My thing is against guidance, not education of it.  As I’ve said, the history, past events and real world are important.

 

“Johnny’s daddy is married to another daddy and that’s ok” is a lot different than “Johnny’s daddy is married to another daddy and if you want to marry billy you can do that too” or “Johnny’s mommy decided to be a man” is different than “Johnny’s mommy decided to be a man and if you want to change from a girl to boy, you can too”

and this part is likely a reason for covering the bases 

For example, the analysis cited policies in Hillsborough, Broward and Palm Beach counties that say it’s inappropriate to divulge a child’s sexual identity to a parent without the child’s consent. House staffers cited a case in Leon County in which parents sued the school districtfor allegedly freezing them out of a discussion about their child’s gender identity.

Edited February 26, 2022 by steve09ru

[tshile]

@steve09ru

i agree with you in that sense. 
 

do we have examples of guidance going on? To the extent a law against it is needed?

 

i don’t know. I’m generally against crafting laws to address problems that don’t actually exist though. 
 

(sorry if I missed early discussion of such examples)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

1 hour ago, steve09ru said:

It’s two-fold, what if you have a teacher telling them it’s wrong and bad for those who believe that it’s ok based off belief?  Beliefs shouldn’t be pushed on in a school setting (specifically primary but debatable across all) which is why they shouldn’t be a part of base curriculum and offered as an elective for those who wish to explore beliefs

discussions about homosexuality and allowing bigoted and homophobic views are two completely different things. We wouldn’t allow teachers to discuss how blacks are inferior to whites, it would be grounds for termination. Why would we allow teachers to discuss how gays are inferior?…I’m positive the supporters of this legislation were in no way worried about teachers speaking negatively about homosexuality to children who wouldn’t understand how offensive and wrong that viewpoint is.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[steve09ru]

8 hours ago, tshile said:

@steve09ru

i agree with you in that sense. 
 

do we have examples of guidance going on? To the extent a law against it is needed?

 

i don’t know. I’m generally against crafting laws to address problems that don’t actually exist though. 
 

(sorry if I missed early discussion of such examples)

There’s a number of law suits in various states about it but this is a blog by a pre-k to k teacher a d director who openly talks about it https://www.glsen.org/blog/teaching-early-childhood-education-non-binary-trans-person

 

specifically allowing kids at that age to choose their own pronouns and what feels right and teaching that your gender comes from your heart.  

 

 

[LD0506]

[LD0506]

This Could Be Huge: The FCC Is Investigating American Media And Other Companies For Russian Ownership Ties

 

 

https://www.politicususa.com/2022/02/25/this-could-be-huge-the-fcc-is-investigating-american-media-and-other-companies-for-russian-ownership-ties.html?fbclid=IwAR3kNe6d7f8expfuFJy53w2KGar_uK5UBBAQ5-9lmqKIeZjXLRsQpV2Tx2k

[Long n Left]

13 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

That makes one of us.

Fancy a bum? Asking for a friend.