Conn Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Serious question: when has letting any RB hit FA in the modern era come back to bite any team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheATrain Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Perhaps...but only if we're foolish enough to let Morris walk. Durable as any player we've had in a couple decades? Check Outstanding work ethic and attitude? Check Less than 100 yards shy of 4,000 yards in first three seasons? Check 28 TD's in three seasons? Check. The list could go on. Matt Jones has yet to log a single NFL carry in a real game against a first string defense. I will give you the athletic ability Jones showed in preseason. He looked good. I also know he's had nearly a handful of knee surgeries. I also know that backs that are built like him and play so forcefully tend to have short careers. Not a guarantee, just a precautionary tale. For all the flash of these highly touted players such as Foster/Charles/McCoy, there's only one name in the NFL that has more yards since entering the league than Morris. I'll take the guy I know is going to be on the field 16 games a year every year even if you feed him the rock 25 times a game thank you. I really like Jones, but people are hopping on his train waaaay too quickly. Another case of many fans undervaluing one of the best players on the team. Yep, and durability especially among RBs is one of the most important traits to have. It's the difference between a guy like DeMarco Murray having only one great year like 2014, and guys like Adrian Peterson actually repeating those stellar seasons. Chip Kelly realizes this about Murray which is why he has chosen to lessen his workload a ton this season. Another thing to note is that crazy great year of 2012 Alfred was 2nd only to AP in rushing yards, who had a ridiculous 2,097. Morris is better than many give him credit for, just imagine if he had a season behind that Dallas o-line, he would have a year as good or better than Murray did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Morris is good but not special. He had a huge rookie year but last two years have just been...okay. 1000 yards rushing over 16 games really isn't much, thats like 60 YPG average. I'd like to keep him but RBs just aren't worth investing any real significant money into at all. And Matt Jones looks special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Serious question: when has letting any RB hit FA in the modern era come back to bite any team? Or traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Morris is better than many give him credit for, just imagine if he had a season behind that Dallas o-line, he would have a year as good or better than Murray did I don't think that's guaranteed. Murray has tools that Morris just doesn't have. Morris has incredible vision and an ability to not get taken down behind the LOS, but I think the importance of that is downplayed when you have gaping holes to run through, and you don't have the speed to finish long runs like Murray did. So while Murray probably left some plays on the field that Morris would make, Morris wouldn't have the raw speed or playmaking ability to do some of the things Murray did. I'm not going to argue that straight up Murray definitively is the more talented RB, because they have very different skill-sets. And I do agree that Murray has the injury concerns that Morris doesn't (until he does--the NFL is a violent sport and RB's seem to get the worst of it). Basically, my point is that Morris was seemingly born to run in a zone scheme behind a poor offensive line. His vision and tackle-breaking ability behind the LOS benefit him, ironically, behind a bad OL more than they would behind a good one. His biggest strengths would almost be rendered unnecessary running behind the Cowboy's OL. When your OL actually opens up holes, it becomes more important to get that physical monster that can punish defenses and take runs all the way, which isn't Morris. He's consistently done well with 10+ and even 20+ yard runs, but he doesn't take runs to the house the way you want a guy to be able to behind a dominant OL. You're basically setting a guy up in the second level with an OL like that, so his skill-set needs to be built around that more than what Morris has needed to do here. But its funny you mention this, because the Cowboys are doing exactly what I'm talking about--they realize their running game success is more due to the OL than the RB, so they let him walk and let a division rival overpay for him, while they throw a few cheap possibilities at the position and bet on their OL making it work with all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Morris is good but not special. He had a huge rookie year but last two years have just been...okay. 1000 yards rushing over 16 games really isn't much, thats like 60 YPG average. I'd like to keep him but RBs just aren't worth investing any real significant money into at all. And Matt Jones looks special. This is the other point. Its hard to see when you're a fan of his team, but Morris since his rookie year has basically been a compiler. Nothing overly special, hell we're playing from behind most of the time so he's not even killing the clock against defenses that know what's coming or anything. But since he stays healthy he ends up high on those "most yards since x year" lists. Which isn't any type of measure of elite ability. At a lot of positions, being above average for 16 guaranteed games a year is worth a lot. At RB, its really not, because you can have three cheap talents at the position rotate to take the punishment and fill in when someone gets hurt. When a RB's biggest strength is arguably his ability to stay healthy, I'm not overly impressed. I'll take an elite RB talent who can take over a game for 12 games a season, and back him up with cheap startable guys, over a 16-game compiler, if you give me my choice. This isn't hating on or under-appreciating Morris, I just think he's actually overrated by many and we're seeing it in this thread. Every single Sunday nobody RB's have big games and average RB's are good enough to get it done on more complete offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheATrain Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 I don't think that's guaranteed. Murray has tools that Morris just doesn't have. Morris has incredible vision and an ability to not get taken down behind the LOS, but I think the importance of that is downplayed when you have gaping holes to run through, and you don't have the speed to finish long runs like Murray did. So while Murray probably left some plays on the field that Morris would make, Morris wouldn't have the raw speed or playmaking ability to do some of the things Murray did. I'm not going to argue that straight up Murray definitively is the more talented RB, because they have very different skill-sets. And I do agree that Murray has the injury concerns that Morris doesn't (until he does--the NFL is a violent sport and RB's seem to get the worst of it). Basically, my point is that Morris was basically born to run in a zone scheme behind a poor offensive line. His vision and tackle-breaking ability behind the LOS benefit him, ironically, more behind a bad OL more than they would behind a good one. His biggest strengths would almost be rendered unnecessary running behind the Cowboy's OL. But its funny you mention this, because the Cowboys are doing exactly what I'm talking about--they realize their running game success if more due to the OL than the RB, so they let him walk and let a division rival overpay for him, while they throw a few cheap possibilities at the position and bet on their OL making it work with all of them. Interesting point about playing behind a bad o-line benefiting Morris.. And i'm not worried about Morris's durability ever being a question until age becomes the big factor. Morris is unique in that, god forbid this ever happening, I fully believe he could suffer a major injury and still come back the same or even better, similar to AP in 2012. It's not something that would end his career or put it in a downward spiral unless it was something really bizarre. Obviously he doesn't have the game breaking talent of an Adrian Peterson, but how many guys like that are there in this league when you really think about it? Seems like so many players in this league nowadays, especially running backs, that have constant nagging injuries which can keep them out of games or limit their abilities, leaving question marks and unwanted situations that teams have to prepare for. Never a problem with Morris. His work ethic and attitude towards the game is commendable, you never have to worry about any off-field drama with him (unlike AP in that way) and you know he won't do any dumb **** like smoke weed and get suspended for 4 games. Not a bragging douche, never makes stupid comments to the media.That and his overall truck-like durability is why I can't get with the crowd wanting to simply let him walk in the offseason. He's like the complete opposite of RG3 Unless this team commits to a full rebuild, and if Matt Jones is as good as some say, I'd sooner rather trade Jones, the wildcard, to a team looking for a young up and comer and get picks for him. Either that or let him spend a while as Morris's backup before thrusting him into lead duties so soon. Morris is still young and has the potential to be elite again in a sense, Gruden just needs to figure out how to get that 2012-like production out of him again Morris has valuable qualities that can't all be measured in on-field production, but when you get those intangibles AND on-field production like 2012 out of the guy, that's a valuable ****ing centerpiece to a team. This is his contract year and we are gonna run the ball a ton this season and it will be Morris's big chance to prove that the 2012 season wasn't a one time fluke. To the people that want him gone for Jones so quickly, would you feel the same way if he put up 2012 production again? I find that more likely to happen than Jones coming in and somehow taking the league by storm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Interesting point about playing behind a bad o-line benefiting Morris.. And i'm not worried about Morris's durability ever being a question until age becomes the big factor. Morris is unique in that, god forbid this ever happening, I fully believe he could suffer a major injury and still come back the same or even better, similar to AP in 2012. It's not something that would end his career or put it in a downward spiral unless it was something really bizarre. Obviously he doesn't have the game breaking talent of an Adrian Peterson, but how many guys like that are there in this league when you really think about it? Seems like so many players in this league nowadays, especially running backs, that have constant nagging injuries which can keep them out of games or limit their abilities, leaving question marks and unwanted situations that teams have to prepare for. Never a problem with Morris. His work ethic and attitude towards the game is commendable, you never have to worry about any off-field drama with him (unlike AP in that way) and you know he won't do any dumb **** like smoke weed and get suspended for 4 games. Not a bragging douche, never makes stupid comments to the media.That and his overall truck-like durability is why I can't get with the crowd wanting to simply let him walk in the offseason. He's like the complete opposite of RG3 Unless this team commits to a full rebuild, and if Matt Jones is as good as some say, I'd sooner rather trade Jones, the wildcard, to a team looking for a young up and comer and get picks for him. Either that or let him spend a while as Morris's backup before thrusting him into lead duties so soon. Morris is still young and has the potential to be elite again in a sense, Gruden just needs to figure out how to get that 2012-like production out of him again Morris has valuable qualities that can't all be measured in on-field production, but when you get those intangibles AND on-field production like 2012 out of the guy, that's a valuable ****ing centerpiece to a team You and I are just never going to agree on this, we have very differing viewpoints on roster building and at the RB position in particular. Then there's also the annoying habit you have of somehow working RG3 into everything. Lets keep it about the RB's, it has nothing to do with the QB position. I just don't really see any value in our RB's personalities, intangibles, whatever. Maybe for some its more fun to cheer for a guy like Morris, but personally I like the idea of rooting for a smart, cutthroat organization that doesn't need its fans' pride and joy to be the fact that their unassuming starting RB has a ****ty Mazda named Bentley. RB is the most interchangeable piece in football and the fact that you'd rather re-sign Morris to a contract and trade the young cheap rookie just shows how far apart we are on this. No biggie, its still an interesting conversation. I don't see anything that would make a guy like Alfred Morris "a valuable ****ing centerpiece to a team". He's the opposite of a centerpiece, he's a cog in the machine, ideally. The rest of the stuff in your post, about his durability:talent ratio and all that, I addressed in my other post which you probably hadn't seen yet when you posted this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Why the **** would you trade Jones? If he's good and playing on a cheap contract, that would incredibly idiotic. How and what are we REbuilding? We've been bad for 24 years. Every player who was here last time we were good is retired a long time. You could say we're building a team. Like you're supposed to, but rebuilding? Nope. Morris is most likely gone next year. Jones is staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheATrain Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Lol what the hell? I'm not trying to bring up RG3 in everything, I thought he was a good example in that post, and I don't get why your getting so condescending when I wasn't even trying to argue with you, but just present my view on Morris's value to the team. You don't think Morris could ever be as good as Murray because he doesn't have the same skillset which is fine, even though I never said Morris is as good as Murray. All I said was that I think he could put up production similar to Murray if given the same situation and help around him. I think that a ton of running backs could thrive in that system and with that personnel around them. Similar to how low-key unheard of QBs like Nick Foles excel in a system like philly's. We disagree on that point, so fine, whatever lol jesus christ When talking about a centerpiece of a team, I'm going to bring up the infamous RG3 who was drafted to be exactly that, our franchise QB and fearless leader. My point, however. in my clearly wrong and useless opinion, is that Morris is the type of player we should be striving to build the franchise around. Or at least move toward building around, not letting walk for nothing so he can tear it up somewhere else. So maybe not him specifically but someone with a similar mindset and work ethic, who doesn't get caught up in media bullcrap and his image. Just focus on the ****in GAME, not proclaiming something as asinine as being the best qb in the league. Someone BORING like LUCK. If the organization wants to reverse the downward spiral into the abyss it starts with not grabbing the flashiest, biggest bragger who couldn't give a **** about what the coaches want or working on his fundamentals. So yes, shockingly I find a player like Morris to be a lot more valuable than plenty of others view him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Doesn't want to talk about RG3. Goes on rant about RG3. But it a thread titled for Jones, but to talk about Morris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Doesn't want to talk about RG3. Goes on rant about RG3. But it a thread titled for Jones, but to talk about Morris. I wonder who his favorite and least favorite Redskins might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 "He struggled the past couple seasons" He's got almost 4000 yards in 3 seasons. This is our problem as redskins fans, even if something is good, it's not good enough. We should be begging for "good". Alfred Morris is "great" in every sense. Coaches will tell you - having another good rb is a good thing. Alf has been very durable, and this 4th season is probably right on time to give him a little relief with another great runner. A bruiser at the goal line. Perhaps the new guy picks up alf's cutback ability. This is a team effort, we shouldn't put these players against each other. It's a good looking thing we have at rb right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kost203 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I think he's already our best RB Morris is another recipient of the zone stretch. He's a good back but I think MJ could be elite and this is why this year will be telling. new oline system more power, but I do hope we retain mooris and he produces. hes been a class act. we need more players like that in every sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 "He struggled the past couple seasons" He's got almost 4000 yards in 3 seasons. This is our problem as redskins fans, even if something is good, it's not good enough. We should be begging for "good". Alfred Morris is "great" in every sense. Coaches will tell you - having another good rb is a good thing. Alf has been very durable, and this 4th season is probably right on time to give him a little relief with another great runner. A bruiser at the goal line. Perhaps the new guy picks up alf's cutback ability. This is a team effort, we shouldn't put these players against each other. It's a good looking thing we have at rb right now. He's gone 1600-1300-1000, not exactly an upward trend. I realize there are other factors but most of his success has come with RG3 in the game with the threat of keeping the ball on the read option. Nobody was touching him until he was 4 yards downfield. Alf isn't the same threat in a traditional offense. He is good, but not great. I don't know what it is about Matt Jones, but you know it when you see it with him. I'm excited to have both this year, but if Alf is the starter and goes for 1,200 yards this year, he'll deserve a solid contract that would be a waste of money for the Redskins to pay, when you can plug and play with much cheaper options. (Holy run-on sentence!) He deserves the money and has earned it. Someone will pay him. The one huge positive that Alf has is durability. That does not go unnoticed. I'd love to keep him, but he's earned too big of a contract for the Redskins to justify spending on. I'd rather spend $5-6m on a stud O lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurd Cudins Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I remember when Robert Turbin was going to make Marshawn Lynch expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmiii Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 It's all about money, RBs just down carry the price tag they used to. That said, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and write off our bell cow before our new rookie stud ever touches the ball in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I remember when Robert Turbin was going to make Marshawn Lynch expendable. That was never a thing, it was Christine Michael who was supposed to inherit the throne in SEA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Lol what the hell? I'm not trying to bring up RG3 in everything, I thought he was a good example in that post, and I don't get why your getting so condescending when I wasn't even trying to argue with you, but just present my view on Morris's value to the team. You don't think Morris could ever be as good as Murray because he doesn't have the same skillset which is fine, even though I never said Morris is as good as Murray. All I said was that I think he could put up production similar to Murray if given the same situation and help around him. I think that a ton of running backs could thrive in that system and with that personnel around them. Similar to how low-key unheard of QBs like Nick Foles excel in a system like philly's. We disagree on that point, so fine, whatever lol jesus christ When talking about a centerpiece of a team, I'm going to bring up the infamous RG3 who was drafted to be exactly that, our franchise QB and fearless leader. My point, however. in my clearly wrong and useless opinion, is that Morris is the type of player we should be striving to build the franchise around. Or at least move toward building around, not letting walk for nothing so he can tear it up somewhere else. So maybe not him specifically but someone with a similar mindset and work ethic, who doesn't get caught up in media bullcrap and his image. Just focus on the ****in GAME, not proclaiming something as asinine as being the best qb in the league. Someone BORING like LUCK. If the organization wants to reverse the downward spiral into the abyss it starts with not grabbing the flashiest, biggest bragger who couldn't give a **** about what the coaches want or working on his fundamentals. So yes, shockingly I find a player like Morris to be a lot more valuable than plenty of others view him So you're sensitive and you have issues with reading comprehension, congratulations.* *That was condescending, for future reference. I don't think you really got most of what I was saying, or how I feel about what you were saying. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I have no idea why Alf's personality has anything to do with us resigning him.... While this conversation is very premature, we are talking about running backs Look at the top fantasy RBs for this season...basically a bunch of nobodies. It's a dime a dozen position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pray4surf Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 That was never a thing, it was Christine Michael who was supposed to inherit the throne in SEA. She sounds hideous. Two years on my bench in my Dynasty league. One week after I drop him he gets traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 And as ppl have pointed out with starts, he's not elite. That's not to say he hasn't done a lot for this team but just the reality of the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownRocks111 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Alfred doesn't seem to be a big money guy. He can probably be had for a buck fifty and a car wash for his Mazda. Just saying if money is an issue Alfred is the kind of guy to give home town discounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurd Cudins Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 That was never a thing, it was Christine Michael who was supposed to inherit the throne in SEA. It was definitely a thing, just short-lived. Christine Michael only validates and reinforces my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Matt Jones looks like the real deal to me. He is big, fast, agile, and it looks like he can block and catch. A prototype running back. There are of course some questions about Jones' durability and ball security though, only time will tell the answers to those. Alfred Morris is a very good running back. He has been durable and dependable, consistently productive, and a class act. You like to have guys like that around. Morris has weaknesses too. He isn't much of a threat in the passing game, and his production has slipped some. Still you would like to see him stick around, but again only time will tell. For now I'm quite pleased to have AlMo and Jones on the roster. I'm hoping we go run heavy this year and see both get tons of touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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