This is just wrong.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

The point that PB failed to grasp was that there's no reason there should be private toll lanes on a public highway. If they'd simply invested the money to add to extra public lanes, it would have done way more to ease traffic congestion than the toll lanes have.

Just an outside observer.......but are they really "private"?  Considering they are available to the public, anyone, then it cant really be private.  

[Springfield]

Its a public/private partnership. Virginia "owns" the roads. They contracted with Transurban to build it (for $1.6 billion) and i'm sure Transurban is making money off of the deal. Virginia profits because they didn't need to find that 1.6 billion in the budget (it already has a $4 billion budget deficit) and it gets the road built sooner rather than later.

But Transurban owns a controlling share.

[Taylor703]

Whether they make money off of HOV vehicles or not shouldn't matter. The fact remains that the state sold pre-existing lanes that were paid for using tax dollars. Not to mention Virginia spent $400 million on these EZ pass lanes which you and I know where they got that money from. Anyway you slice it Virginia ****ed their residents hardcore with the transurban deal.

[PleaseBlitz]

Here is my problem.

Roads are and should be a public work. They are a part of the country's infrastructure. These toll roads are private interprises operated for profit to the owners of the roads.

I have a problem with this.

I'll pay to use them. Out of convenience. Not because I care to line the pockets of some out of country conglomerate that doesn't have any local interests in mind. Because I want to get where I need to go faster, and I can afford to.

 

Honest question:  Why should anyone care about anything other than your last paragraph?

 

I will buy Chic Fil A chicken sandwiches.  I don't like the company's politics or the fact that they are closed on Sunday.  But those sandwiches are delicious and so I buy them, because I am hungry and I can afford them.  And so I buy them.  AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.

But Transurban owns a controlling share.

 

First, where are you getting this information?  Second, what good does a "controlling share" do them?  

[Redskins Diehard]

I'll pay to use them. Out of convenience. Not because I care to line the pockets of some out of country conglomerate that doesn't have any local interests in mind. Because I want to get where I need to go faster, and I can afford to.

I love that whole "line the pockets" expression. But the reason why you would pay is likely the reason anyone should pay. The difference is instead of all of us paying for bonds...the people that use that road pay a company. I don't know the specifics but that nasty foreign company is required to provide a specific level of service in the form of a guaranteed minimum speed

[Springfield]

I mean, it's like what is going on across every industry. We don't make things in America, the Chinese do. We don't have our military build jets, we hire Lockheed Martin to. We don't send our troops to secure a nation, we hire Blackwater to. We don't send space ships to the space station, we hitch a ride with the Russians.

This is just Amercas way of doing things now. It's the new business model. Have someone else do the work and then charge double what you paid.

[tshile]

No, my observations are anecdotal (sitting in traffic while a handful of cars at time are zipping by in the toll lanes.

I believe that's the point. Sounds like they're working. If you want to be in those lanes either carpool or spend the money.

I'm want to get one for prime time games but I correctly figured we wouldn't have many this year.

[Redskins Diehard]

Whether they make money off of HOV vehicles or not shouldn't matter. The fact remains that the state sold pre-existing lanes that were paid for using tax dollars. Not to mention Virginia spent $400 million on these EZ pass lanes which you and I know where they got that money from. Anyway you slice it Virginia ****ed their residents hardcore with the transurban deal.

So I'll take that as you acknowledging that before this gates people with 3 or more people could drive in those lanes free of charge. And after the deal people with 3 or more people could drive in those very same lanes free of charge. But you're still bitter?

[PleaseBlitz]

Pretty sure a bunch of Americans built these roads.  

 

Well, and probably Mexicans that really WANT to be Americans.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Man I'm glad I don't live up there........as much as I want to.  

[Redskins Diehard]

I mean, it's like what is going on across every industry. We don't make things in America, the Chinese do. We don't have our military build jets, we hire Lockheed Martin to. We don't send our troops to secure a nation, we hire Blackwater to. We don't send space ships to the space station, we hitch a ride with the Russians.

This is just Amercas way of doing things now. It's the new business model. Have someone else do the work and then charge double what you paid.

what do the Chinese build in America? And pretty sure the military never built their own jets

[Springfield]

Honest question: Why should anyone care about anything other than your last paragraph?

I will buy Chic Fil A chicken sandwiches. I don't like the company's politics or the fact that they are closed on Sunday. But those sandwiches are delicious and so I buy them, because I am hungry and I can afford them. And so I buy them. AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.

First, where are you getting this information? Second, what good does a "controlling share" do them?

1) Roads are a public service. That's all that matters.

2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_State_Route_267

Pertinent info:

the Dulles Greenway is owned by TRIPP II, a limited partnership,[4] but is maintained by Macquarie Atlas Roads, an Australian company which owns the majority stake in the partnership.

I don't know about you, but if I owned a majority stake in a partnership I'd take that to mean that I could do whatever the **** I wanted. Kinda like Dan Snyder or Ted Leonsis.

[Gamebreaker]

If people are arguing that these privately funded lanes are actually helping traffic, they are wrong. And here are a couple of real world examples why:

 

1)When there is an accident on the beltway, which happens often, it is still backed up because only a minority of the travelers own an ezpass and maybe half of them are willing to pay the mark-up price which was adjusted less than 2 minutes after the accident occurred. 

 

2) Where 95 and 395 both merge into the beltway has been a consistent cluster****, which has caused even more confusion and accidents due to the division of the express lanes being only one mile after the merge. There is always dangerous traffic immediately after the merge as drivers are busy either trying to get out of the express lanes before the cut off, or get into them. On two separate occasions I've seen accidents occur because of this, which has caused traffic jams which have extended as far back as the Woodrow Wilson Bridge into Maryland. I have usually been in bumper to bumper traffic due to this BS. 

 

3) On a normal rush hour traffic day, so few travelers actually use the express lanes that the root purpose in allowing their construction has not been achieved. 

[Redskins Diehard]

Pretty sure a bunch of Americans built these roads.

Well, and probably Mexicans that really WANT to be Americans.

No way. Didn't you see all the outback steakhouse appear? And those big cans of Fosters laying around?

[Taylor703]

Honest question: Why should anyone care about anything other than your last paragraph?

I will buy Chic Fil A chicken sandwiches. I don't like the company's politics or the fact that they are closed on Sunday. But those sandwiches are delicious and so I buy them, because I am hungry and I can afford them. And so I buy them. AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.

First, where are you getting this information? Second, what good does a "controlling share" do them?

They own 95% of the 495 lanes and 78% of the 95 lanes. Transurban pretty much owns those roads. The state of Virginia sold the controlling shares to them.

[TheGoodBits]

I believe that's the point. Sounds like they're working. If you want to be in those lanes either carpool or spend the money.

Of course it's the point, doesn't make it right though. Not when the alternative would be making a meaningful impact on traffic congestion for the entire road.

[Redskins Diehard]

I don't know about you, but if I owned a majority stake in a partnership I'd take that to mean that I could do whatever the **** I wanted. Kinda like Dan Snyder or Ted Leonsis.

it's not like dan snyder or ted leonsis at all.

[PleaseBlitz]

1) Roads are a public service. That's all that matters.

2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_State_Route_267

Pertinent info:

I don't know about you, but if I owned a majority stake in a partnership I'd take that to mean that I could do whatever the **** I wanted. Kinda like Dan Snyder or Ted Leonsis.

 

 

#1, Roads are not a service, they are a thing.

 

#2, are we talking about the Greenway or the HOT Lanes?  Ok, so TRIPP II company owns a private stake in the Greenway, you said the 495 HOT Lanes were majority owned by Transurban.  One thing is a different thing than the other thing.

 

#3, I work in contracts law, a majority stake in a partnership DOES NOT mean that you can do whatever the **** you want unless you set up the partnership that way (like Snyder).  And EVEN IF THEY COULD, what are they going to do?  Raise the tolls SO THAT NOBODY USE THE LANES?  

They own 95% of the 495 lanes and 78% of the 95 lanes. Transurban pretty much owns those roads. The state of Virginia sold the controlling shares to them.

 

Link?

[tshile]

They own 95% of the 495 lanes and 78% of the 95 lanes. Transurban pretty much owns those roads. The state of Virginia sold the controlling shares to them.

Are you suggesting the sale did not include language about what they must, or cannot, do?

[Springfield]

it's not like dan snyder or ted leonsis at all.

Really? Because no matter what Snyder does people will still be going to Redskins games.

[tshile]

Of course it's the point, doesn't make it right though. Not when the alternative would be making a meaningful impact on traffic congestion for the entire road.

Paying for it or carpooling would make a meaningful impact on what you deal with.

And guess what, if you carpool that's free and it helps everyone else.

[PleaseBlitz]

If people are arguing that these privately funded lanes are actually helping traffic, they are wrong. And here are a couple of real world examples why:

 

1)When there is an accident on the beltway, which happens often, it is still backed up because only a minority of the travelers own an ezpass and maybe half of them are willing to pay the mark-up price which was adjusted less than 2 minutes after the accident occurred. 

 

2) Where 95 and 395 both merge into the beltway has been a consistent cluster****, which has caused even more confusion and accidents due to the division of the express lanes being only one mile after the merge. There is always dangerous traffic immediately after the merge as drivers are busy either trying to get out of the express lanes before the cut off, or get into them. On two separate occasions I've seen accidents occur because of this, which has caused traffic jams which have extended as far back as the Woodrow Wilson Bridge into Maryland. I have usually been in bumper to bumper traffic due to this BS. 

 

3) On a normal rush hour traffic day, so few travelers actually use the express lanes that the root purpose in allowing their construction has not been achieved. 

 

1) If half the people were willing to pay the marked up price, that is like the ideal outcome.

 

2)  I live about 3 miles from the Mixing Bowl, i think you are significantly overstating the danger.  

 

3)  Do you have any factual data to back up this assertion, or is this just your gut feeling?

[Redskins Diehard]

Really? Because no matter what Snyder does people will still be going to Redskins games.

that's not true. In fact removal of seats is evidence of the exact opposite.

[Taylor703]

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/38/3899.asp

This seems to explain things a bit.

[Springfield]

#1, Roads are not a service, they are a thing.

#2, are we talking about the Greenway or the HOT Lanes? Ok, so TRIPP II company owns a private stake in the Greenway, you said the 495 HOT Lanes were majority owned by Transurban. One thing is a different thing than the other thing.

#3, I work in contracts law, a majority stake in a partnership DOES NOT mean that you can do whatever the **** you want unless you set up the partnership that way (like Snyder). And EVEN IF THEY COULD, what are they going to do? Raise the tolls SO THAT NOBODY USE THE LANES?

1- So roads are a thing. Perhaps we should make all roads toll based and then we could better control the flow of traffic. If you don't want to pay a toll, don't drive. That's the general argument.

2- I never mentioned the 95 HOT lanes other than the picture I posted in the OP. I didn't know who owned what until I googled just now.

3- So this company, you're telling me, bought a controlling share of this road to simply do as the state pleased? They have no influence on anything?