I don't like President Obama's new immigration Reform

[PeterMP]

I agree with Kilmer.  I'm actually not sure where I stand on illegal immigration in general, but I think this likely represents an over step of executive power (thought we'll see what he actually does).

[Kilmer17]

Hooray. Obama is just like bad republicans.

Yay for us

[twa]

  

If you look real hard, you'll notice the words "The House" in Hersh's post.

 

 

 

if ya look at all he is deflecting....oh look now gerrymandering 

[TimmySmith]

SInce the president seems certain of this 4 million number, I assume it will be capped at that amount.  I wonder what will happen to the other 7-15 million (assumed) illegals.

[skinsmarydu]

I'll be the first leftie to admit that it only took 1 illegal immigrant to drastically alter my future.

And not in a good way. I won't even mention the other 2.

I'm not a fan of this proposal.

If just 1 of the 3 had even voiced his "want to become legal", I might think it would work. Even the current one, here at least 10 years, who left his son with his parents in Mexico, can't speak as much English as I can Spanish. (If about 9 years in a Mexican restaurant taught me that much, I would think general American society would teach an outsider more. If only they wanted to learn it, to be able to communicate.)

They don't. They isolate themselves, even amongst us. Businesses that cater to their particular needs, wants, etc. I'm not saying any of this upward mobility is wrong, or that I dislike it, given that its licensing is legally obtained through proper authorities.

But I know plenty whose allegiance is to wherever they came here from. They have no desire to become a citizen. (I learned a lot about how that works...allegiance. Mine would always be here, no matter how much I admire the Canadian way of life, LOL).

[Larry]

if ya look at all he is deflecting....oh look now gerrymandering

So, your claim is that you took the following post, . . .  

 

So Republicans don't trust themselves to make sure they secure the border? The House couldn't even pass funding for border security without attaching a bunch of other things to it.

. . . and made the following response, . . .  

 

they control the govt now?

And, when someone points out what you did, . . .

 

If you look real hard, you'll notice the words "The House" in Hersh's post.

. . . respond with . . .

 

if ya look at all he is deflecting....oh look now gerrymandering

(something he brought up, 10 posts after yours.)

Because he's deflecting?

 

[twa]

larry, go to the start and find out why he is talking about Reps passing a immigration bill ....and why he was told trust is the issue

 

they already passed one and were screwed...Dem's move ****

[Larry]

larry, go to the start and find out why he is talking about Reps passing a immigration bill ....and why he was told trust is the issue

 

they already passed one and were screwed...Dem's move ****

 

 

1)  I'm well aware of why he brought it up.  You were spouting untrue claims that the R's just want to secure the border.  And he correctly pointed out that  they control the House, and, when asked to fund border security, were unable to do so unless they attached sweeteners to the bill. 

 

2)  you responded by trying to pretend that he said they control the entire government. 

 

3)  And no, they didn't "already pass one".  That was his point.  And it is correct.  They passed one with other attachments to it. 

[twa]

Larry they passed a bill under Reagan, one the Dem's have not honored.....nor this President

 

why pass another when you already have one they subvert?

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/67e409ef05374f258391c2519fce6daa/fact-check-obamas-claims-illegal-immigration

[Going Commando]

The administration waited until after the Mid Terms to do this so as not to hurt congressional Democrats in those races by further energizing an electorate that is already overwhelmingly white and majority conservative. Lot of good that did in hindsight. Whatever, he did his part for the party.

Anyway, the Republicans have no real stick here. They were already stalling and blocking nominations incessantly and Obama's term is almost over anyway. They're not going to shut down the government again unless they're utter fools and want to forfeit all credibility in the notion their party can be trusted to govern, ahead of an election cycle that liberals will actually show up to vote in.

Their only move is to play catch up on the issue and try and pass immigration reform of their own once the new sessions starts, which is the bottom line of what Democrats want anyway. It'll be too late to reap big political advantage from it though. This kind of landmark action/dramatic political maneuver by the administration will further cement a generation of Hispanic voters as Democrats.

That's what pisses congressional Republicans off. They wanted in on the demographic but they were too scared of alienating parts of their white base to act, so they did nothing until they could try and get a majority in government that would let them pass legislation completely on their terms--terms that would have put Democrats in an untenable political position (can't vote against immigration reform, but can't accept a wholly conservative agenda for reform).

Now the GoP is just reacting. Imagine that. A reactionary party like the GoP has been for decades being forced to take reactionary stances on social changes in the country.

BTW I was particularly amused by Tom Coburn's prediction of anarchy and violence in the streets following this announcement. What a ****ing hack he is.

[skinsmarydu]

They're not going to shut down the government again unless they're utter fools and want to forfeit all credibility in the notion their party can be trusted to govern

I give you the GOP LEADER:

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/11/limbaugh-gop-you-were-elected-stop-obama

[TimmySmith]

Larry they passed a bill under Reagan, one the Dem's have not honored.....nor this President

 

why pass another when you already have one they subvert?

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/67e409ef05374f258391c2519fce6daa/fact-check-obamas-claims-illegal-immigration

Exactly. Obama goes up there and behaves as if there is not a thousand pieces of legislation already in place.  How about some actual enforcement?

[Going Commando]

I give you the GOP LEADER:

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/11/limbaugh-gop-you-were-elected-stop-obama

He's a fool and a hack with nothing at stake for shamelessly playing to a certain base. He's not losing anything by spouting crap like that, in fact it probably helps him with his audience.

Republican congressmen and candidates for office however, are in the business of trying to win elections. Limbaugh's agenda is absurd and doesn't help them win elections. Especially not in a Presidential cycle where there with no incumbent in the White House, and a congressional map where the GoP is going to have to work their butts off to try and hold gains. They won't be in a position to grab new seats/consolidate majorities. Check this out: http://danielsattelberger.blogspot.com/p/senate-2015-2016-safe-d-likely-d-leans.html

It's the inverse of what happened this election cycle, now the GoP is going to have to be on the defensive. And it comes in a cycle when Democrats actually turn out.

Mitch McConnell said there will be no government shut down. Mitch McConnell is nobodies fool. And he is not weak like Boehner. There is no way in hell he allows the government to shut down and put his majority in even more jeopardy.

[twa]

pretty sure this blew up any chance for real immigration reform,formally bypassing the law and removing the most sympathetic group from the equation means nada is gonna pass besides pushback and adjustments

[Slateman]

I think he was talking about George W.

Ironic, ain't it

[ABQCOWBOY]

pretty sure this blew up any chance for real immigration reform,formally bypassing the law and removing the most sympathetic group from the equation means nada is gonna pass besides pushback and adjustments

 

I'm not so sure TWA.  I think that there is a bi-partisan core out there that realizes what this means.   I would not be surprised to see the GOP and the Dems come together on something here.   If they do, the President is in a really tough spot if he does not sign it and move on.   There are a lot of variables on this thing. 

 

Right or Left, this is a very unpopular decision, on behalf of the President.

[skinsmarydu]

I would not be surprised to see the GOP and the Dems come together on something here.

Good for you.

Rational folks, however, would be completely blown outta their boots.

[Larry]

Larry they passed a bill under Reagan, one the Dem's have not honored.....nor this President

 

why pass another when you already have one they subvert?

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/67e409ef05374f258391c2519fce6daa/fact-check-obamas-claims-illegal-immigration

 

 

1)  I assume by "they passed a bill" you mean "Both Republicans and Democrats"? 

 

2)  And your spin cycle is showing.  Neither party has done what you claim "The Dems have not honored". 

 

(Which was Hersh's point, I will point out.  You've deflected your way in a full circle back to the truth that you didn't want to admit, yesterday.) 

pretty sure this blew up any chance for real immigration reform,formally bypassing the law and removing the most sympathetic group from the equation means nada is gonna pass besides pushback and adjustments

 

And here there was so much chance for bipartisanship, before. 

[Hersh]

pretty sure this blew up any chance for real immigration reform,formally bypassing the law and removing the most sympathetic group from the equation means nada is gonna pass besides pushback and adjustments

 

That's a joke. There was no real chance to begin with as long as the House refused to do ANYTHING. It's the same old song and dance we have heard from Republicans when they talk about Repealing and Replacing the ACA. They never have actually passed or seriously proposed any health care reform of their own.

[Kilmer17]

Even if there was no chance, that doesn't give the potus the right to usurp congress' authority.

There's no chance congress will pass a law outlawing all abortions, but this sure opens up the possibility that president Cruz can simply enact it himself someday

[Tulane Skins Fan]

There will be a time when there is a republican in the White House. And the people who currently think Obama is doing the right thing are going to realize the error in that thinking.

Just like the filibuster change, once this genie is out of the bottle, it won't get put back.

Imagine what nefarious actions a hard right potus could initiate?

 

What is the genie you are referring to though?

 

Executive authority is actually in the constitution, you know that right?

[Kilmer17]

What is the genie you are referring to though?

Executive authority is actually in the constitution, you know that right?

Yep. This action goes well beyond that authority. Obama himself even said that.

[Hersh]

Larry they passed a bill under Reagan, one the Dem's have not honored.....nor this President

 

 

This is one of my favorite lies. After Reagan signed the Amnesty bill, Republicans controlled the Presidency for another 6 years afterward. IF it's Obama's fault for the border not having better security, why isn't it Reagan and Bush I's fault back in the day? Furthermore, what exactly did George W do? Not get an immigration bill passed and used executive authority to make changes in the law.

(Which was Hersh's point, I will point out.  You've deflected your way in a full circle back to the truth that you didn't want to admit, yesterday.) 

 

Thank you.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Even if there was no chance, that doesn't give the potus the right to usurp congress' authority.

There's no chance congress will pass a law outlawing all abortions, but this sure opens up the possibility that president Cruz can simply enact it himself someday

 

Kilmer, I have to argue with you when you start talking about Congress' authority though.

 

Let's get something straight, the senate passed a bi-partisan bill that went FURTHER than Obama's executive order in protecting illegal immigrants.  That bill that the senate passed was sent to the House where it ASSUREDLY WOULD PASS if Boehner would put it to a vote.  He just never put it to a vote because he didn't want to lose his own power when the tea party got upset with him.  

 

Congress wasn't acting.  Don't pretend that they were about to pass something.  The GOP can't agree what to do on this in lock step, as Boehner apparently thinks is necessary to bring a bill to the floor.  And in the mean time you have people being split from their families, deportations going up for non-criminals, and illegals staying here, getting away with it, not paying taxes and frankly living for free on the american government.

 

This order is a pretty fair way to address it.  

 

And finally, Congress can overrule his executive order at any time.  All they have to do is pass a bill through the house and senate.  Ok, its not like the president's executive order's usurp a law.  They don't.  They stand in the gaps of laws.  So, if Congress wants to change the law, don't sue the president, do your job and pass a new law.

Yep. This action goes well beyond that authority. Obama himself even said that.

 

No it doesn't and no he didn't.  Youre spitting GOP rhetoric now.

[Going Commando]

I'm not so sure TWA.  I think that there is a bi-partisan core out there that realizes what this means.   I would not be surprised to see the GOP and the Dems come together on something here.   If they do, the President is in a really tough spot if he does not sign it and move on.   There are a lot of variables on this thing. 

 

Right or Left, this is a very unpopular decision, on behalf of the President.

Is it unpopular on the left? I don't think so. This is going to help Congressional Democrats and Democratic candidates in 2016 and it does a lot more to solidify a new core constituency within the Democratic base. The President seized the initiative on immigration reform from Congressional Republicans. I'm pretty sure it's only unpopular on the right. And that's because any sort of immigration reform that's not entirely centered around deportations and increased border security pisses off a loud part of the GoP's white base, and Congressional Republicans are angry that they got politically outmaneuvered and lost initiative on an issue they thought they could use to take Hispanic votes/energy from the Democratic base.

Republicans will try and pass some sort of immigration reform before 2016 because they want to gain some of the Hispanic demographic, or at least chip away at the large advantage Democrats have with the demographic. Whether or not they can actually get anything done remains to be seen, the party is not as strong as they're trying to posture following the Mid Terms. Their conference is still fundamentally divided and they don't have the WH and they're going into the next election cycle with a lot more of their races in Toss Up territory than Democrats.

It definitely won't happen in the lame duck session however. But it was never going to anyway. The GoP is going to try and martial it's strength to get a conservative agenda for reform passed. But they are going to have to get the president and congressional Democrats to support it. And Obama has already seized initiative in the issue by staking out a whole bunch of the best and most common sense policies as his: stopping deportations for undocumented immigrants who were brought here as children and those who have children that are American citizens.

There is an out for the GoP. Pass a comprehensive reform. It'll include these specific policies. Doing so will help them in 2016 and they can spin the narrative that they're the ones who brokered compromise and got a major reform legislation done.