WP: Charles Barkley rants about Russell Wilson being called ‘not black enough’

[Sticksboi05]

the point that went over your head is that American culture loves violence. Not just black people. Black people are the only group that apparently has a pathology over it.

and I will ask again, what research have you done on this?

 

Well let's put it this way, Barkley is not the only public figure who has echoed this sentiment, RGIII's "blackness" was questioned within the last two years, you've already had multiple people in this thread tell you it's happened to them and you think that's a coincidence?

[JoeWolf990]

If you were reading the thread, you'd see that I've said that it's true across all races.

apologies

 

Mirror. I never said all black people were gang member, nor any race. I am stating somthing that happens in urban environments.

then why mention THEM as the group that represent black people? You did that, not me.

I dont think a gangster like Dick Cheany represents all white people. I dont think Pablo Escobar represents all Latinos.

 

Well let's put it this way, Barkley is not the only public figure who has echoed this sentiment, RGIII's "blackness" was questioned within the last two years, you've already had multiple people in this thread tell you it's happened to them and you think that's a coincidence?

I will say it again. What research have those public figures done?

I just pointed to an article that showed some people who did studies on it, and that was dismissed to prop up Barkley's comments.

[Kosher Ham]

You are asking us to research something that is blatantly obvious.

That is where we have a disconnect.

 

I mention it because it is true involving the black community.

As a young guy in DC during the point it was the murder capital...only 25% of them (murders) led to convictions. People didn't care, the "snitches get stitches" mantra came around that time.

 

We can go all the way back to Curtis Mayfield, you want to ask Stevie Wonder, KRS One, Chuck D, perhaps someone like Michael Jackson, or Sammy Davis Jr. ?

 

Your propensity for dense remarks is astonishing.

 

Step back breathe in and think about what we are all saying here. I have a feeling that your sensitivity meter might be off.

[Sticksboi05]

That study focuses specifically on academic achievement.  This discussion encompasses all kinds of "expected characteristics".

[Vilandil Tasardur]

So, you're comparing white hicks that don't want to wear suits to this story?  I'll admit, I've knocked a lot of beer back today since I'm on a mini-vacation, so I might have missed something.

 

 

I get it. Like I said, it happens across all races in some fashion or another. For whites, it can go both ways. I Have some friends that are so "white", all about hunting, voting for conservatives, hating liberals and minorities, being rich... If you aren't that then you aren't one of them.

 

Not quite. I meant it more along the lines of "I've seen similar behavior in white people".

 

To me, however, is that there is a big difference. White people who don't belong to that group generally look down on them. Most white people look down on white trash or hicks, sometimes even unfairly so. The glorification of the culture generally comes only from within.

 

The story here, however, is discussing a glorification that extends outside and even attracts others to it. No one is concerned that hillbillies are going to corrupt the youth of Potomac. But there seems to be lots of concern about "thugs" getting to our black youth.

[Gamebreaker]

That study focuses specifically on academic achievement.  This discussion encompasses all kinds of "expected characteristics".

 

Anyone can do a study, doesn't mean the results of the study are actually correct. For example, only 58% of DC Public school students graduate on time, and for all schools within DC it's only 64%. That is among the lowest in the country. 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-graduation-rate-ticks-up-but-wide-achievement-gaps-remain/2013/12/20/2acc752a-69c5-11e3-a0b9-249bbb34602c_story.html

 

I guess I'm an idiot for believing statistics too. 

 

But you are correct, academic achievement doesn't directly relate to this discussion. Yet it must be noted, one of the key characteristics of a cornball brother is his audacity to try and act like the white man and get a degree. "Real" black people ain't got time fo dat! 

[SkinsFTW]

Well let's put it this way, Barkley is not the only public figure who has echoed this sentiment, RGIII's "blackness" was questioned within the last two years, you've already had multiple people in this thread tell you it's happened to them and you think that's a coincidence?

 

And when is the last time there was a Brady, Manning, or Rodgers, etc. story about how "that dude just isn't white enough"?

[Kosher Ham]

Exactly...what are the qualifications ?

 

Live your life beyond stereotypes is what I was always taught.

Create your own expectations.

You can be whatever you want to be.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

And when is the last time there was a Brady, Manning, or Rodgers, etc. story about how "that dude just isn't white enough"?

No, but there has been a lot Brady is homosexual noise, not among media but he gets a lot of criticism for being who he is. Such as the pic of him going down the water slide with his hands up, the long hair/ponytail, awkward dancing videos etc, even being clowned for making less than his wife.

Same conversation just different criteria

[JoeWolf990]

That study focuses specifically on academic achievement.  This discussion encompasses all kinds of "expected characteristics".

the study focused on academic achievement and African American vernacular vs. "talking white."

You are asking us to research something that is blatantly obvious.

That is where we have a disconnect.

 

I mention it because it is true involving the black community.

As a young guy in DC during the point it was the murder capital...only 25% of them (murders) led to convictions. People didn't care, the "snitches get stitches" mantra came around that time.

 

We can go all the way back to Curtis Mayfield, you want to ask Stevie Wonder, KRS One, Chuck D, perhaps someone like Michael Jackson, or Sammy Davis Jr. ?

 

Your propensity for dense remarks is astonishing.

 

Step back breathe in and think about what we are all saying here. I have a feeling that your sensitivity meter might be off.

what in the hell is blatantly obvious?

Im not trying to be a prick here but you dont know what you are talking about.

I dont know what mentioning the drug wars in the 80s even has to do with this conversation.

[zoony]

.WE instead allow idiots like Charles Barkley to head the conversation even though he has no formal credentials to speak on the matter.Its like letting Chris Berman speak on the nuances of brain surgery.

I think Charles Barkley, a black man who came up through the south and has been in the national spotlight since he was 18 is qualified to speak about problems in the black community

Because you don't like his opinions doesn't make him "as qualified as chris berman on brain surgery"

Also also, really wish you would stop throwing around the term "well read". It means absolutely nothing. Ted Kaczynski was well read.

[Destino]

the study focused on academic achievement and African American vernacular vs. "talking white."

Did you read the article you posted? Perhaps it differs from the studies themselves that I haven't read yet. The beginning was about "talking white" and the work argued that this did exist. The second part showed where it was challenged recently, but the study focused on academic achievement and did not disprove the "talking white" aspect. What it found was that in schools that were mostly black, black kids were not accused of acting white over academic achievement. It also included this;

Across schools, the general pattern was this: “Acting white” accusations weren’t attached to academic performance and rather were a function of specific behaviors. If you hung out with white kids and adopted white fashions, you were accused of “acting white.”

So as long as a black person doesn't hang out with whites or adopt "white fashions" (whatever that means), they don't have to worry about being accused of not being black enough. No mention if adopting white sounding speech.

[JoeWolf990]

I think Charles Barkley, a black man who came up through the south and has been in the national spotlight since he was 18 is qualified to speak about problems in the black community

he isnt qualified to speak on these issue. Charles Barkley hasnt been in the "black community" since he made the NBA. He hasnt done any social research on the matter.

He has no qualifications whatsoever to talk about race. He can talk about HIS experience, but he cant make sweeping statements the way he did. He absolutely does not.

Because you don't like his opinions doesn't make him "as qualified as chris berman on brain surgery"

if Barkley said their were no problems at all in the black community and everything was perfect and fine, he would still be an idiot because he hasnt done the social scholarship to figure these things out.

Also also, really wish you would stop throwing around the term "well read". It means absolutely nothing. Ted Kaczynski was well read.

In the field of Mathematics, Ted Kaczynski was an expert in that field. If we had a conversation on math theorems, he would be someone to go to. Thats what a well-read, expert in the field is.

Charles Barkley is not a well-read, expert on race. Chris Berman is not a well-read expert on brain surgery. Those are the facts.

It infuriates me that race conversations are dominated by "public figures" who give 3 minute soundbites that people subsequently follow instead of those that have sat back and done research and can give you what the data shows them. Thats been the conversation on race in this country. No one wants the actual fact, but instead want to hear what a person who thinks that only black people are holding back black people from success because he hasnt sat down and actually read up on Critical Race Theory.

[zoony]

You have fair points Joe but you could get two "well read" people who would disagree vehemently on the subject. Like I said its a bad term

[JoeWolf990]

You have fair points Joe but you could get two "well read" people who would disagree vehemently on the subject. Like I said its a bad term

and guess what, THATS FINE!

If you have people that are experts and are debating, THATS FINE! Thats what using academia is about. They have debates on these matters and do research and find out which side is right, if either side is right.

The problem in this country is we dont like intellectuals when it comes to social issues. We all feel we are an expert and can speak on it, when in truth none of us can. Not me, not you, and sure as hell not Charles Barkley. Yet a village idiot like Barkley is always quoted and continues to make asinine statements like that.

And people follow his lead.

[Sticksboi05]

No, but there has been a lot Brady is homosexual noise, not among media but he gets a lot of criticism for being who he is. Such as the pic of him going down the water slide with his hands up, the long hair/ponytail, awkward dancing videos etc, even being clowned for making less than his wife.

Same conversation just different criteria

 

Not the same conversation.  People against gays aren't saying they aren't white enough...

[TimmySmith]

he isnt qualified to speak on these issue. Charles Barkley hasnt been in the "black community" since he made the NBA. He hasnt done any social research on the matter.

 

???  Hasn't been in the black community?   This is the type of comment that appears to support his assertion.

 

As far as research goes, his comments appear to be his own personal experience and perhaps those around him with similar life paths. 

[JoeWolf990]

???  Hasn't been in the black community?   This is the type of comment that appears to support his assertion.

 

As far as research goes, his comments appear to be his own personal experience and perhaps those around him with similar life paths.

I didnt stutter, he hasnt been apart of the black community since became an NBA superstar in the mid to late 80s.

If you think Charles Barkley has to face the same issues as black men without his millions and fame do, then you are mistaken. He probably hasnt lived in a black neighborhood since he left Alabama.

That doesnt mean he isnt black, but that he isnt abreast of black issues in 2014. He probably hasnt been since he was 20-21. And thats fine. Charles Barkley is an all time great basketball player. I dont expect him to know the nuances of race in America. THe problem is that idiot believes he does and you have people who know even less and take his opinion as gospel.

And thats the problem. Our personal experiences are not the effing same, yet he thinks they are.

[Sticksboi05]

It infuriates me that race conversations are dominated by "public figures" who give 3 minute soundbites that people subsequently follow instead of those that have sat back and done research and can give you what the data shows them. Thats been the conversation on race in this country. No one wants the actual fact, but instead want to hear what a person who thinks that only black people are holding back black people from success because he hasnt sat down and actually read up on Critical Race Theory.

 

I'm sure Chuck doesn't actually believe that systematic racism doesn't exist.  I'd guess if you grew up in the south in the 70s and 80s you'd certainly know it exists.

And people follow his lead.

 

Gee you know why, because a lot of people have had that very thing happen to them.  Don't get me wrong, you do have valid points about following people completely unqualified but Chuck has way more validity on this than say Jenny McCarthy mouthing off about how vaccines cause autism.

[No Excuses]

I'm willing to wager that this is an issue for most minority kids throughout the country. I'm not black but I've felt this push from my own community that I'm not "representing my culture enough". There is even an acronym and full length term describing it; "American Born Confused Desi". 

 

What I see it as is mostly people who are very strongly aligned with their cultures and communities with conservative values not liking when others break off and assimilate with other cultures or races. From community to community, the specifics will be different. 

 

But to say this is a non existent problem is really not true. It's a problem and based on my own experience, and those of a LOT of my friends, it's quite frequent.

[rictus58]

I'm pretty sure Joe doesn't have the authority to discuss who is and isn't allowed to discuss race relations. I mean, I haven't seen a peer-reviewed paper that states he is.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Not the same conversation. People against gays aren't saying they aren't white enough...

Same conversation as people being put into specific boxes of what is expected of them, how they should look, act, dress, etc.

[TimmySmith]

And thats the problem. Our personal experiences are not the effing same, yet he thinks they are.

I believe he stated that a problem exists because success creates a rift in the black community that does not exist in the white community.   Since he is rather successful, and probably hangs with many successful blacks, I'd say he is qualified to voice an opinion that could be examined before it is attacked. 

[JoeWolf990]

I'm pretty sure Joe doesn't have the authority to discuss who is and isn't allowed to discuss race relations. I mean, I haven't seen a peer-reviewed paper that states he is.

awesome, you read one of my posts where I said I didnt and wanted more scholarly thoughts on these issues. Thanks.

[JoeWolf990]

I believe he stated that a problem exists because success creates a rift in the black community that does not exist in the white community.   Since he is rather successful, and probably hangs with many successful blacks, I'd say he is qualified to voice an opinion that could be examined before it is attacked.

and I will say it again, how does he know that? What research as he done?

I will say it again, on Open Court last year Charles Barkley said something along the lines of the higher you go in Corporate America, the more diversity you see. HE said this basing it solely on what he saw on the NBA on TNT crew and Turner Sports. Thats his worldview on these matters. That is why he needs to not be taken serious at all.

He is def qualified to voice his opinion. So is the old man who yells at the cloud. That does not mean his opinion should hold any value, especially over some that are experts in the field. The problem with social issues in this country is that we give weight to those who are the loudest.