I want to sue the republican party for willful denial of scientific evidence about climate change.

[twa]

So we need more dams and pipelines/aqueducts.....and energy to move it.

 

Remind me who opposes dams and pipelines and such

[visionary]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

They are all liars.

[twa]

1 minute ago, LadySkinsFan said:

They are all liars.

 

Always a good assumption.

[Hersh]

26 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

This is how ****ing incompetent these guys are. He got his information from Stephan Moore which means he didn't even do his own actual research and CNN got Moore to admit how wrong he was. http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/31/news/economy/trump-coal-jobs/index.html

[LadySkinsFan]

Hey, it sounded good!  Except to those still coal workers who lost their coal jobs and didn't get re-hired.  

[PeterMP]

7 hours ago, twa said:

So we need more dams and pipelines/aqueducts.....and energy to move it.

 

Remind me who opposes dams and pipelines and such

 

Or we could take some of that money and try some prevention.

 

You know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Edited June 6, 2017 by PeterMP

[twa]

4 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

Or we could take some of that money and try some prevention.

 

You know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

Is the prevention effective and less expensive though?....sugar pills at a premium

 

 

Feeding China and Musk seems futile

[PeterMP]

20 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Is the prevention effective and less expensive though?....sugar pills at a premium

 

 

Feeding China and Musk seems futile

 

I suspect yes, especially as going the cure route leaves us militarily involved in the Middle East and the prevention route does not.  I'll sit down and do some calculations for you tomorrow if you can give me some numbers.

 

What's the monetary value of a US service person's life?

 

A life altering injury (losing a limb)?

 

And living with PTSD?

[twa]

Do you seriously believe we would significantly reduce our overseas interventions as a result of alt energy?

 

Where are you planning on getting the rare materials needed for alt energy?

We are just going to withdraw from trade and limiting excesses from other nations?

China gonna take care of our needs?

 

My path reduces the need for military interventions more than yours.

 

[PeterMP]

17 minutes ago, twa said:

Do you seriously believe we would significantly reduce our overseas interventions as a result of alt energy?

 

Where are you planning on getting the rare materials needed for alt energy?

We are just going to withdraw from trade and limiting excesses from other nations?

China gonna take care of our needs?

 

My path reduces the need for military interventions more than yours.

 

 

I named a specific region.  

 

Maybe I missed something.

 

 Have there been a lot of people coming back from military service in Canada, Mexico, S. America, Europe, Japan (all places that we trade heavily with), South Korea, the South China Sea (Japan, S. Korea, and S. China sea all related to the idea of rare Earth materials) missing limbs and suffering from PTSD?

 

Because I'm not hearing about it at least.

Edited June 7, 2017 by PeterMP

[twa]

how does your solution lessen that more than mine?

You do believe advances in alt energy will be made right?

 

The folk in S Korea and Japan ect don't seem to be worried about the same people you do.

of course they remember clearly what real high losses are.

[twa]

 

Quote

 

How natural gas is bought and sold in the world’s scattered regional markets for the fuel is changing rapidly. Ships such as the Rioja Knutsen are stitching those regions together and a single global market is emerging.

This is already how nearly every other hydrocarbon, from crude oil to obscure petrochemicals, is sold. As gas joins the club, the effects will ripple through energy prices, company profits, the environment and geopolitics.

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Remember the time Trump actually said he was going to "bring back beautiful, clean coal"?

[PeterMP]

8 hours ago, twa said:

how does your solution lessen that more than mine?

You do believe advances in alt energy will be made right?

 

The folk in S Korea and Japan ect don't seem to be worried about the same people you do.

of course they remember clearly what real high losses are.

 

Can we do multiple choice?

 

If a major component of keeping the peace in the Middle East withdraws (e.g. the US military) and things go to hell in a hand basket in the Middle East, I would rather live in a country that

 

A. uses a lot of oil and has an economy and a society in place that is dependent on cheap oil (like the US currently)

B. uses less oil and has an economy and a society in place that is already used to oil being expensive and can more readily reduce oil prices by cutting taxes on it if necessary (like Japan).

 

I'm going to vote for B.  What about you?

 

I do not see why advances in alt energy will continue to advance at any real rate unless we as a society continue to make a concise effort to push/pull them forward.  We have a President that has indicated that he would like to slash funding for alternative energy research and would like to decrease subsidies/tax breaks to alternative energy, while increasing (hidden) subsidies to oil (especially in the context of the US military).  As I've already stated in this thread, paying the costs for climate change some way other than a tax on CO2 emissions is another subsidy to the fossil fuel industry (which is what you were talking about in the context of pipelines and dams), which minimizes the competitiveness of alt energy with respect to fossil fuels and makes the adaption of fossil fuels less likely and less important.

 

Let's see why might Japan and S. Korea not worry as much as Americans about the Middle East.  Could it be because per capitia and per GDP they consume less oil than us?

 

Or maybe it is because in my life time they haven't fought 2 wars in the Middle East, a proxy war related to the Middle East in Afghanistan, don't have troops there now and have a President that seems like he wants to increase the troop presence there and the responsibility of those troops (likely leading to more US deaths), aren't using drones to drop bombs there on a regular basis, had a bunch of people from there fly planes into buildings and kill a bunch of their citizens, had an embassy in a country in the region taken over and their citizens held hostage for an extended period of time (do I need to keep going?).

 

Of course, I suspect their oil consumption and is tied to the fact that they don't have the other issues.

 

Oh and I'm sure the people that have lost family, friends, and loved ones in WWII, the Korean conflict, Vietnam, the two Gulf Wars, and in Afghanistan would disagree that they don't have at least an equally good idea of real loss as the Japanese and the South Koreans.

 

PS

 

(This is a more general statement not only related to this thread.)

 

I got away from here even before the election and then stayed a way for a good bit after it.  I'm not so much interested in the horse race aspect of things vs. talking about problems and trying to think about solutions and with the election so much of the focus was on the horse race component of our system.  I also thought there was a general decline in the quality of dialogue beyond just the horse race component of it.

 

It is funny what actually brought me back I think was the NBA season drawing to an end and an interest to see conversations about basketball as it did so.  The other stuff I get elsewhere in my life.  And from there I was drawn into other threads.

 

However, in the last 24 hours I've seen an unbelievably mind numbing level of stupidity (I really tried to use the word ignorance, but ignorance can't describe it) that has lead me to decide to withdraw myself again.  The last 24 hours has lead me to long for the days of alexey and 81artmonk (I think that was his name, but I mean the anti-evolution person that used to post a lot when I first started here).  At least there, I could understand the underlying issues.  I don't even understand the mental state in some of these cases any more.

 

And obviously, there's always been some people here that are either complete morons or were not acting in good faith, but at least in my opinion, it has gone beyond that to affect core posters that I thought were smart and quality posters and even people where I disagree with them that in the past I thought there was some level of integrity and intelligence to the point that I thought if just left to me and them we could find some real area of agreement.

 

Some of the staff where I work are pro-Trump voters and even before I really came back here several of them were starting to regret their vote, and from that and other things, I had a sense that things were going to be okay (and for example as part of that I wrote in Jumbo's expertise thread, I wasn't really worried about what was happening to expertise).  This morning, I no longer feel that way.

 

Maybe it is me and I've changed.  I don't know.

 

But I think I will take another vacation.  Maybe I'll come back at the end of the summer.  Have a nice summer everybody.

 

Peter

Edited June 7, 2017 by PeterMP

[twa]

4 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

Can we do multiple choice?

 

If a major component of keeping the peace in the Middle East withdraws (e.g. the US military) and things go to hell in a hand basket in the Middle East, I would rather live in a country that

 

A. uses a lot of oil and has an economy and a society in place that is dependent on cheap oil (like the US currently)

B. uses less oil and has an economy and a society in place that is already used to oil being expensive and can more readily reduce oil prices by cutting taxes on it if necessary (like Japan).

 

I'm going to vote for B.  What about you?

 

 

A of course.....the price of oil can of course go up but that only makes alternatives more attractive VS option B which is already more expensive and still will need to rely on fossil fuels

 

I'll miss your contributions.....can't say I blame you

 

 

[visionary]

 

[twa]

 

[visionary]

 

[twa]

Only 13?

Things must be tough out there

[visionary]

Disgusting and unacceptable.

Betrayel of our allies and our planet.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by visionary

[visionary]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

I've been to Tangier Island, they've known for years about rising water levels. 

 

Trump is such a climate denier, has no basic scientific knowledge.

Edited June 17, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[China]

Scientists stunned by Antarctic rainfall and a melt area bigger than Texas

 

Scientists have documented a recent, massive melt event on the surface of highly vulnerable West Antarctica that, they fear, could be a harbinger of future events as the planet continues to warm.

 

In the Antarctic summer of 2016, the surface of the Ross Ice Shelf, the largest floating ice platform on Earth, developed a sheet of mel****er that lasted for as long as 15 days in some places. The total area affected by melt was 300,000 square miles, or larger than the state of Texas, the scientists report.

 

That’s bad news because surface melting could work hand in hand with an already documented trend of ocean-driven melting to compromise West Antarctica, which contains over 10 feet of potential sea level rise.

 

“It provides us with a possible glimpse of the future,” said David Bromwich, an Antarctic expert at Ohio State University and one of the study’s authors. The paper appeared in Nature Communications.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[FanboyOf91]