LaCanfora: Fred Davis 6 Game Suspension

[BruinSkin]

A mistake is dropping your laptop or forgetting to pack your prescription sunglasses when on a trip to Saudi Arabia (which by coincidence is where I am right now) .....choosing to use banned substances and failing to stop when your career and income are at stake is not a mistake. It's terrible judgment, a sign of a gross lack of personal discipline and/or evidence of a substance abuse problem he needs to address.

I hope he can turn his life around as well, but it will not be as a Redskin and it's probably not going to be as an NFL player.

 

We don't know any of the details surrounding his positive test. Whether he accidentally or intentionally ingested a ban substance really isn't my point. The holier than thou attitude on this board gets tired quick. Many of us have had lapses in judgments or had friends or relatives who have. We're all human beings in the end, and I think it's much harder to pick someone up than it is to kick them when they're down. Fred's a good guy.

Well, why wouldn't he be? He obviously doesn't have a problem with his players using PED's and when he was the HC at USC there wasn't anything he wouldn't do in order to win. He left that program right before the hammer came down for all the **** he was responsible for and it appears to me that he has taken that state of mind back into the NFL.

 

I'm going to put this nicely, but your details are pretty inaccurate as to be completely false. The Ting brothers tested positive for PEDs at USC and were kicked off the team.

 

As for his departure from the university, I invite you to come talk to us at FightOn247. Ask people whether Carroll left on his own volition or whether he was forced out by Mike Garrett. We've got a lot of insiders and program boosters that may have answers that would surprise you.

 

He wasn't responsible for any of the sanctions. Reggie Bush's family took money from an ex-con-turned-agent named Lloyd Lake. He wasn't a booster and turned out wasn't even a fan of USC. Lloyd wanted Reggie to turn pro, so he could cash in on his investment and make his commission as his agent in the NFL.

 

But again, I'm only a USC alum who has been following the program for years. What do I know?

[goskins10]

We don't know any of the details surrounding his positive test. Whether he accidentally or intentionally ingested a ban substance really isn't my point. The holier than thou attitude on this board gets tired quick. Many of us have had lapses in judgments or had friends or relatives who have. We're all human beings in the end, and I think it's much harder to pick someone up than it is to kick them when they're down. Fred's a good guy.

 

 

 

I will preface this with I don;t know exactly what he has done, so if it turns out it was another Laconfora ruse, then he is owed a huge apology. However, I doubt it. I saw it reported by a few other agencies that Davis was going to be suspended.

 

I am all for giving people the benefit of the doubt. If this were a first time thing, I would be with you. But c'mon, he has a history of making poor choices. When he was suspended those 4 gams he had tested positive for pot no less than 10 times. Most of those were during the lockout so they didn't count.

 

Since coming back he by all reports been lazy and unwilling to do the work it takes to be part of the team. This is not just shanny, many players on the team said he was not working hard. He even admitted himself he fell asleep during meetings!! Not just one but several meetings. Not sure about you, but if I fell asleep during meetings at my work place I would be fired. 

 

Once you are suspended, you lose the "oops, I made a mistake" argument. You should be checking every little thing that goes into your body. He knows the consequences of even the slightest misstep and yet he still has done something a foul of the rules of his contract. 

 

Maybe Fred is a nice guy in person. I admittedly do not know him. But I wil say he agreed to abide a certain set of rules and he has not only preen that commitment once, but multiple times. Sorry, I will save my forgiveness to someone. 

[PerryMason]

Lurking, but I dont understand whats totally wrong with this,

 

I dont smoke, but why punish people that enjoy something that doesnt harm anybody else?

 

Because A) It's illegal and the NFL wants it players to be good role models by abiding by the law and B )who says it can't harm someone else?  DUI isn't just for alcohol.  Plenty of people have hurt people driving high as well.  Think things through a little deeper next time.

[PerryMason]

actually smoking is not the law, neither is having it in your system.  the law is for possession

 

Obviously, different states and cities have some newer laws that have changed things, but in a lot of jurisdictions it is against the law to smoke weed as well as possessing it because smoking it and having it in your system IS posessing it under possession by consumption laws.  Depending on the circumstance you may also be convicted on the logic that if you used it, it had to have been at one point in your possession or control (yes, often times even being in the same room as it counts).  Additionally, if you are in public or driving while it is in your system you can still receive public intoxication and DUIs.  Those two are not just for alcohol, but for nearly any intoxicating substance.

[skinsmarydu]

http://norml.org/advisory-board/item/mark-stepnoski

It's been a really long time, but I think it was an "Outside the Lines" he did, where he talked about how he knew when testing would happen, never used on a night before a game, etc. And somewhere in that interview, I remember his laughing that "Yeah, I've won 2 Super Bowls...it's ruining my life!"

But some people don't have his control, apparently.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

http://norml.org/advisory-board/item/mark-stepnoski

It's been a really long time, but I think it was an "Outside the Lines" he did, where he talked about how he knew when testing would happen, never used on a night before a game, etc. And somewhere in that interview, I remember his laughing that "Yeah, I've won 2 Super Bowls...it's ruining my life!"

But some people don't have his control, apparently.

 

Yeah, this is pretty much how it goes.  One of my buddies played 3 years for the Dolphins and every offseason he would come back home to hang out for a few weeks.  Doobies were always being passed around (bc thats how we DO!) and he would always get down.

 

I remember the first time being like "dude, aren't you nervous? didn't Ricky Williams get in trouble like once a week in Miami for tokin' on that devil's lettuce?" and he told me, "My coaches tell me when I'm going to get tested.  Certain guys get tested more than others, but Ricky knew he was getting tested weeks or days in advance.  He didn't care."

So IF in fact Fred Davis really got caught again- it was because he didn't care that much. (Which is kind of what it has seemed like all along, right?)

[Rocket442Olds]

Well, why wouldn't he be? He obviously doesn't have a problem with his players using PED's and when he was the HC at USC there wasn't anything he wouldn't do in order to win. He left that program right before the hammer came down for all the **** he was responsible for and it appears to me that he has taken that state of mind back into the NFL.

 

Just saw an interview with Sherman and he came off saying," I don't know why Crabtree pushed me, I was just trying to give him a solid. Telling him he was a good player." " I have no idea why he pushed me."

 

What a bull**** rap that is. Hey Sherman, maybe it has to do with your dirty play, your unending taunting. Something you actually made a point of running up to Michael Crabtree to do making the choking motion around your neck.

 

Sure, your just an innocent victim. No! Your a base, obtuse and willfully ignorant scumbag..and yes..you are a thug!!

Do you think Pot is performance-enhancing for players on the field?

 

If not, your entire rant is pointless, even if it has some legitimacy scattered through with such a faulty premise. 

 

Also, Pot isn't the big bad wolf its made out to be. We're not in the 1990s anymore. Where it is a big bad wolf is in sports where its tested and players sign deals to not use it currently. Carroll isn't suggesting players smoke it now anyways, he's suggesting the NFL take a look at removing it from its banned substances list. Again, making your rant pointless. 

 

Fred Davis is an idiot because he smoked something recreationally that ruined his career. Not because of what is in the pot, but because of the rules put in place by his employers.

[Tatankgough]

I'm going to put this nicely, but your details are pretty inaccurate as to be completely false. The Ting brothers tested positive for PEDs at USC and were kicked off the team.

 

As for his departure from the university, I invite you to come talk to us at FightOn247. Ask people whether Carroll left on his own volition or whether he was forced out by Mike Garrett. We've got a lot of insiders and program boosters that may have answers that would surprise you.

 

He wasn't responsible for any of the sanctions. Reggie Bush's family took money from an ex-con-turned-agent named Lloyd Lake. He wasn't a booster and turned out wasn't even a fan of USC. Lloyd wanted Reggie to turn pro, so he could cash in on his investment and make his commission as his agent in the NFL.

 

But again, I'm only a USC alum who has been following the program for years. What do I know?

 

http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow/sports-disgracedcollegecoaches/5/

 

I would suggest you pay special attention to the last line of the description at the bottom of the picture where it says that he had already accepted a job with Seattle BEFORE he was fired. So I am not inaccurate in how he skipped out.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/What-was-Pete-Carroll-s-part-in-the-USC-scandal-;_ylt=A0SO8wqQ_.dSbTkAjvBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzMDlwNmx2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1NNRTM5OF8x?urn=nfl,247361

 

This is also a very interesting article as well, yeah I am the one the is uninformed, right.

In the video he shows all the signs of lying, shifting his gaze away from the camera. I never could believe anyone that cannot look me straight in the eye with confidence.

 

So what you're saying is that Pete Carrol didn't know anything about what was going on in his locker room?? A former NFL coach with years of experience didn't know a single thing about what his players were doing or whether one of his star players was being approached by nefarious elements that would put his program at risk of sanctions along with harming his return to the NFL??

 

Pete is that you?? Aren't you supposed to be getting your team ready for what I hope will be their Little Big Horn??

 

Have to give it to you though....you sure coached Dick Sherman how to lie so convincingly to the media.

 

Just like you, a chip off the old turd.

 

I checked out your fighton247 and it is a pay to get on board so I'll save my money and keep my opinion of what really happened. I have done enough research to justify my opinions of that whole USC scam.

 

You have a right to believe what you wish to. If you choose to believe that Pete Carrol is completely innocent of the ****storm that came down on USC than I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

[Tatankgough]

Do you think Pot is performance-enhancing for players on the field?

 

If not, your entire rant is pointless, even if it has some legitimacy scattered through with such a faulty premise. 

 

Also, Pot isn't the big bad wolf its made out to be. We're not in the 1990s anymore. Where it is a big bad wolf is in sports where its tested and players sign deals to not use it currently. Carroll isn't suggesting players smoke it now anyways, he's suggesting the NFL take a look at removing it from its banned substances list. Again, making your rant pointless. 

 

Fred Davis is an idiot because he smoked something recreationally that ruined his career. Not because of what is in the pot, but because of the rules put in place by his employers.

 

You may think it is pointless to point out that this guy who is given credibility and sought out for his opinion is and has been one of the worst offenders of the leagues policies.

A team is a reflection of it's coach. Seattle is the league leader in penalties and is by all accounts a dirty and unsportsman like way of playing the game.

 

Let's not forget how Dick Sherman drew the anger of one Trent Williams, unless you think he was over reacting.

 

Multiple substance abuse of PED's

 

You're right though about Marijuana not being a performance enhancing drug.

 

So I ask you why should Davis be run out of the league for smoking pot when the infractions for PED's are dealt with by slapping the wrist basically.

 

Didn't Dick Sherman somehow through some technicality not miss one game...oh..right..it was the playoff game against us last year.

 

Browner was suspended but not the Dick. What a surprise.

 

Look man..the reality is you're right marijuana is illegal and Davis is dumb for smoking it and breaking league rules over and over again.

 

But why the double standard??

 

The POINT of my rant is that people like Pete Carrol and Bill Belichek are held up as some high standard of success.

 

Both of them are corrupt and both get a nod and wink from the NFL and why?? Because they are money makers.

 

Bellichek got busted cold using illegal spying video on his opponents and instead of exposing it and prosecuting it the NFL destroyed the evidence. That's obstruction of justice if nothing else.

 

Someone else said that Pete Carrol was forced out of the USC program and none of the stink that came down stuck to him. What a coincidence that in his new role in the NFL the same problems exist and still he gets a pass. Hell he is exalted as some divine example of excellence. What a great job he is doing. What a crock of ****!!

 

Not to go to far off subject here, but please tell me how the NFL is a NON-PROFIT according the IRS???

 

I would say they don't have a right to pass judgement on anyone really. They are crooks. They pick the tax payers pockets so they can get tax free status and have cities build their stadiums for them.  Please!!!

[Mad Mike]

Apparently Fred was seen at a party in Great Falls, VA in the summer of 2012. One of the party goers claim that Fred was carrying a blunt and was so high, that no one could understand him.

 

 

 

I've smoked a LOT of weed in my time and I've never been that high. 

[skinsmarydu]

I've smoked a LOT of weed in my time and I've never been that high. 

Word! Must've been Willie's?

[Rocket442Olds]

You may think it is pointless to point out that this guy who is given credibility and sought out for his opinion is and has been one of the worst offenders of the leagues policies.

A team is a reflection of it's coach. Seattle is the league leader in penalties and is by all accounts a dirty and unsportsman like way of playing the game.

 

Let's not forget how Dick Sherman drew the anger of one Trent Williams, unless you think he was over reacting.

 

Multiple substance abuse of PED's

 

You're right though about Marijuana not being a performance enhancing drug.

 

So I ask you why should Davis be run out of the league for smoking pot when the infractions for PED's are dealt with by slapping the wrist basically.

 

Didn't Dick Sherman somehow through some technicality not miss one game...oh..right..it was the playoff game against us last year.

 

Browner was suspended but not the Dick. What a surprise.

 

Look man..the reality is you're right marijuana is illegal and Davis is dumb for smoking it and breaking league rules over and over again.

 

But why the double standard??

 

The POINT of my rant is that people like Pete Carrol and Bill Belichek are held up as some high standard of success.

 

Both of them are corrupt and both get a nod and wink from the NFL and why?? Because they are money makers.

You're purposely playing ignorant to the facts now. 

 

Look this up for me, and respond please. How many times was Sherman suspended (or attempted to be suspended). Okay, you should know the answer. Now, look at Fred Davis, how many times has he been caught and suspended. Same thing with Browner, 3 times already for him. 

 

Escalation is based on how often the player is dumb enough to get caught with it. Sherman may have squeaked through on a technicality on his SINGLE incident, but Fred Davis was caught numerous times. So then, how is this a "double standard"?

 

I don't know what happened between Sherman and Trent Williams, and really its of no point in this thread but just to appease you I think it was pretty stupid of Trent to be throwing open-hand strikes at another guys head while he still had his helmet on. He is much bigger than Sherman as it is. Sherman was also mic'ed up that game and I don't see anything he did to get punched in the face other than after Trent telling him he said "Do it then" (or something similar). That said I'm a big fan of Trent, but a stupid move by him, and one that he paid for. I'm a fan, but not a homer who will pretend anything my team does is perfect, but anything another teams players do is pissing on someones gravestone.

[Tatankgough]

You're purposely playing ignorant to the facts now. 

 

Look this up for me, and respond please. How many times was Sherman suspended (or attempted to be suspended). Okay, you should know the answer. Now, look at Fred Davis, how many times has he been caught and suspended. Same thing with Browner, 3 times already for him. 

 

Escalation is based on how often the player is dumb enough to get caught with it. Sherman may have squeaked through on a technicality on his SINGLE incident, but Fred Davis was caught numerous times. So then, how is this a "double standard"?

 

I don't know what happened between Sherman and Trent Williams, and really its of no point in this thread but just to appease you I think it was pretty stupid of Trent to be throwing open-hand strikes at another guys head while he still had his helmet on. He is much bigger than Sherman as it is. Sherman was also mic'ed up that game and I don't see anything he did to get punched in the face other than after Trent telling him he said "Do it then" (or something similar). That said I'm a big fan of Trent, but a stupid move by him, and one that he paid for. I'm a fan, but not a homer who will pretend anything my team does is perfect, but anything another teams players do is pissing on someones gravestone.

 

Only 3 times for Browner?? Ooops my bad, I guess 3 times isn't worth mentioning. But Sherman skated... could be because he is so important to the teams success? Look man, you think that Browner is taking but Sherman ain't?? They are family..as they say..in the same backfield..but Sherman ain't taking??

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/01/who-is-richard-sherman-seahawk-cornerback-more-than-just-an-angry-rant/

 

The last line of text: A dispute over how the urine was collected ( not that it didn't test positive ) and : only after he threatened to sue the NFL was he let off.

 

Also read all the example of taunts and bad sportsmanship, he's a pig and shows all the symptoms of steroid use through his behavior. You would never see London Fletcher acting like a horses ass and he is one of the leagues best players for years. But then again London never used PED's either.

 

Who's ignorant??

 

Davis smokes pot. Browner and Sherman use PED's. No contest. Organic substance of Steroids, which is worse?

 

My only regret is that Trent hit him with an open hand. I would have loved watching Dick spitting his teeth out. In fact it would be my signature gif.

[Rocket442Olds]

Only 3 times for Browner?? Ooops my bad, I guess 3 times isn't worth mentioning. But Sherman skated... could be because he is so important to the teams success? Look man, you think that Browner is taking but Sherman ain't?? They are family..as they say..in the same backfield..but Sherman ain't taking??

 

Who's ignorant??

 

Davis smokes pot. Browner and Sherman use PED's. No contest. Organic substance of Steroids, which is worse?

 

My only regret is that Trent hit him with an open hand. I would have loved watching Dick spitting his teeth out. In fact it would be my signature gif.

Its useless to talk to you I suppose. Who's ignorant? You are, that is for damn sure.

 

If you're assuming Sherman is taking PEDs because a teammate is, then the entire Redskins team is taking them too.

 

Might want to take a read here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/28/redskins-move-into-tie-for-ped-suspension-lead/

 

Odd, must be Trent is on them, RG3 is on them, Cousins is on them, Kerrigan and Orakpo are DEFINITELY on them because Jackson was, and hes the same position. 

 

See now ****ing retarded that is?

 

Edit:. Forgot to mention, Shermans "PED" was ****ing Adderall. Another case of stupidity on the NFLs policies. Still stupid of him to take it, but again, not nearly as bad as the PEDs others are getting hit for (redskins included).

[Tatankgough]

I won't argue with a sick mind, it's useless. " it was only Adderall."

[Rocket442Olds]

I won't argue with a sick mind, it's useless. You must be a Seattle fan...."it was only Adderall."

FIgured you wouldn't want to respond to the claim you made that if a team mate is taking a PED, so are others when it pertains to our favorite team. You're a homer who can't seem to handle anything.

 

Adderall can be a "performance-enhancing" drug if used stupidly. I doubt Sherman had a prescription for it, but how is he any worse for doing that than Rob Jackson is for taking his PED (reportedly a unprescribed Pain Med)?

 

I'm using your logic here: Rob Jackson is a Redskins Linebacker. He got caught for PEDs. His "family" (as you put it) includes the other OLBs, so that means Orakpo, Kerrigan, Jenkins (the one that hasn't got caught yet - ironic) and others all do it as well.

 

Jarvis Jenkins got caught. He is a D-Lineman. So that means the rest of our D-Linemen are also dirty. 

 

I respond to your crazy assertions each time, and you just move onto something else instead of admitting you're acting like a homer who just hates anything Seattle for the hell of it.

 

Ironic you use the "you must be a seattle fan" when you, yourself continue to ignore that by your logic the entire redskins team is on PEDs.

[Tatankgough]

FIgured you wouldn't want to respond to the claim you made that if a team mate is taking a PED, so are others when it pertains to our favorite team. You're a homer who can't seem to handle anything.

 

Adderall can be a "performance-enhancing" drug if used stupidly. I doubt Sherman had a prescription for it, but how is he any worse for doing that than Rob Jackson is for taking his PED (reportedly a unprescribed Pain Med)?

 

I'm using your logic here: Rob Jackson is a Redskins Linebacker. He got caught for PEDs. His "family" (as you put it) includes the other OLBs, so that means Orakpo, Kerrigan, Jenkins (the one that hasn't got caught yet - ironic) and others all do it as well.

 

Jarvis Jenkins got caught. He is a D-Lineman. So that means the rest of our D-Linemen are also dirty. 

 

I respond to your crazy assertions each time, and you just move onto something else instead of admitting you're acting like a homer who just hates anything Seattle for the hell of it.

 

Ironic you use the "you must be a seattle fan" when you, yourself continue to ignore that by your logic the entire redskins team is on PEDs.

 

The Redskins have been a target for the league to punish for not changing their name. PC is more to do with it than the players being overtly guilty.

 

I am sure that some of our players are guilty of using PED's, but I would argue that they don't use to the extent that they are being suspended for.

 

In fact the Redskins seem to be targeted more than any other team.

 

Can you explain why Tanard Jackson has been in limbo for the last two years, when by any standard that is excessive. Could it be that he could have helped our record immensely?

 

Who knows. It seems highly suspect to me, but that's just me.

 

As for me being a homer, if you knew anything about my past posts than you would see that even though I am a loyal fan I am not living in a fantasy land of ignorance and do offer my critiques on the mistakes and bad planning therein.

 

I am happy to be an unapologetic fan, but I am no homer.

 

Due to your obvious confrontational approach to the debate I refuse to be sucked in to some childish back and forth.

 

You are entitled to your point of view and I am mine.

 

Let's leave it at that.

 

Peace out, have a good life.

[JesseNeckred]

*Jerry Seinfeld voice* what's the deal with the Schedule I substance?  Honestly think it's ridiculous to be in the same category as heroin and in a higher category than cocaine

[goskins10]

 

Edit:. Forgot to mention, Shermans "PED" was ****ing Adderall. Another case of stupidity on the NFLs policies. Still stupid of him to take it, but again, not nearly as bad as the PEDs others are getting hit for (redskins included).

 

 

So, Sherman doing Adderrall is not as bad as other substances? Not nearly as bad as what other Redskins are getting hit for? Adderrall  makes a physiological enhancing change to your body. It is an psychostimulant. In therapeutic doses, like other amphetamines it can enhance strength, stamina, acceleration, and endurance among other things. In large doses it can actually produce the opposite effect (I believe you mentioned it took large doses to have an enhancing effect. That is incorrect.) 

 

So, that's Adderall. A clear attempt to cheat. Davis smoked pot, agreed it's a stupid as hell thing to do and he deserves everything he gets punishment wise. But he was not cheating other players, others than the ones on his own team. Pot does not enhance athletic performance, unless eating Doritos becomes an Olympic event. 

 

Trent Williams, pot. Same as Fred, stupid but not cheating. 

 

Rob Jackson took pain killers, which is a banned substance, but not a PED. Again, it was stupid and he broke the rules and was punished appropriately. But he wasn't making himself better that he was otherwise capable without the drugs. 

 

Jarvis Jenkins - States PEDs. He said it was obscure but either way they know the rules. Deserves what he gets. Cheating. 

Jordan Black - PEDs - Cheating. 

Phillip Buchanon - PEDs - Cheating. 

 

Left Tanard JAckson out. He was caught as a Buc and never played a game for us. 

 

SInce 2010 (When Pete Carroll came to Seattle and the time period covered above) - Here are the Seattle players suspended:

Lendell White - PEDs Cheating

Leroy Hill - felony Drug Possession - Stupid but not cheating. 

John Moffit - PEDs - Cheating

Allen Barbre - PEDs - Cheating

Winston Guy - PEDs - Cheating

Brandon Browner - PEDs - Cheating

Bruce Irvin - PEDs - Cheating

Walter Thurmond - PEDs - Cheating

Browner again - PEDs - Cheating 

 

So we have had 6 guys suspended - 1 twice. Out of this, 3 were just stupid but not cheating. Deserved the punishment but they were not cheating to be better. 3 are cheaters. Nothing to be proud of by any means. 

 

But by comparison, Seattle has had 8 suspended in the same time with 1 idiot who was just stupid but 7 of those cheaters, 1 of them twice!! Not to mention Sherman who got off on a technicality (I mean good for him. He had a good lawyer. But he was let go due to faulty handling of the specimen, but that by no means he was innocent (see Ryan Braun!!!). So really 8 guys caught cheating in 4 yrs!! 

 

For the person who was defending Pete Carroll, you have got to be kidding. You can't tell me he knows nothing about 7 guys cheating on his team!!  Anyway, just to summarize - 

 

1. Just Adderall? It is a PED and is cheating! Pot is not! It is just as bad as any other steroid not to mention just as banned by the NFL. Wether it should be or not is another conversation. 

2. Redskins and Seattle are the two highest suspended teams in the NFL since 2010. 

3. It's clear cheating is an acceptable option at Seattle. We have a few cheaters but at least half are just stupid, not cheaters. 

4. Pete Carroll is either corrupt or oblivious. Either option is not exactly what you want. 

 

Sorry, just could not let the "was ****ing Adderall" statement and "it's not nearly as bad as other PEDs" statements go. It's just not true. 

[Rocket442Olds]

So, Sherman doing Adderrall is not as bad as other substances? Not nearly as bad as what other Redskins are getting hit for? Adderrall  makes a physiological enhancing change to your body. It is an psychostimulant. In therapeutic doses, like other amphetamines it can enhance strength, stamina, acceleration, and endurance among other things. In large doses it can actually produce the opposite effect (I believe you mentioned it took large doses to have an enhancing effect. That is incorrect.) 

 

So, that's Adderall. A clear attempt to cheat. Davis smoked pot, agreed it's a stupid as hell thing to do and he deserves everything he gets punishment wise. But he was not cheating other players, others than the ones on his own team. Pot does not enhance athletic performance, unless eating Doritos becomes an Olympic event. 

 

Trent Williams, pot. Same as Fred, stupid but not cheating. 

 

Rob Jackson took pain killers, which is a banned substance, but not a PED. Again, it was stupid and he broke the rules and was punished appropriately. But he wasn't making himself better that he was otherwise capable without the drugs. 

 

Jarvis Jenkins - States PEDs. He said it was obscure but either way they know the rules. Deserves what he gets. Cheating. 

Jordan Black - PEDs - Cheating. 

Phillip Buchanon - PEDs - Cheating. 

 

So we have had 6 guys suspended - 1 twice. Out of this, 3 were just stupid but not cheating. Deserved the punishment but they were not cheating to be better. 3 are cheaters. Nothing to be proud of by any means. 

 

But by comparison, Seattle has had 8 suspended in the same time with 1 idiot who was just stupid but 7 of those cheaters, 1 of them twice!! Not to mention Sherman who got off on a technicality (I mean good for him. He had a good lawyer. But he was let go due to faulty handling of the specimen, but that by no means he was innocent (see Ryan Braun!!!). So really 8 guys caught cheating in 4 yrs!! 

 

For the person who was defending Pete Carroll, you have got to be kidding. You can't tell me he knows nothing about 7 guys cheating on his team!!  Anyway, just to summarize - 

 

1. Just Adderall? It is a PED and is cheating! Pot is not! It is just as bad as any other steroid not to mention just as banned by the NFL. Wether it should be or not is another conversation. 

2. Redskins and Seattle are the two highest suspended teams in the NFL since 2010. 

3. It's clear cheating is an acceptable option at Seattle. We have a few cheaters but at least half are just stupid, not cheaters. 

4. Pete Carroll is either corrupt or oblivious. Either option is not exactly what you want. 

 

Sorry, just could not let the "was ****ing Adderall" statement and "it's not nearly as bad as other PEDs" statements go. It's just not true. 

First off, I never mentioned it needing to be in large doses to have any affect at all. Not sure where you're pulling that one from.

 

Second, the NFL grants Adderall usage to some players confidentially. If it was as performance-enhancing as you say, wouldn't you think they'd not allow it at all? Same with the MLB. Its on their PED List, but 100+ players have been granted the right to take it. 

 

I'm not here to argue which is worse, pot or PEDs as I know PEDs are. In fact in my posts I specifically stated it wasn't a PED and it makes little to no sense for the NFL to not allow it at all. That said, I also was responding to Tatankgough who decided that if one player on a team takes something his teammates do as well.

Again though, you're ignoring some of the facts. If Adderall is a PED, so are quite a few painkillers. First off, if they're banned they give you a competitive advantage in a higher pain threshold and quicker "recovery" (in the short term sense). That doesn't even take into the account that some increase actual performance in other areas, like oxygen supply to blood/muscle. Studies on Acetaminophen even show it produces faster athletes. Again, performance-enhancing. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11600586

Now if simple Acetaminophen has a noticeable affect, what do you think stronger painkillers do? First off, the less you feel pain-wise, the more you can play vs a guy who has not taken a banned substance. That enhances performance. Second, just like Adderall, many painkillers can increase endurance, oxygen, etc...

 

So your "cheating" and "not-cheating, just stupid" bits are not exactly accurate. If you're taking something banned that others aren't, you're cheating. Plain and simple.

 

The lengths some folks here will go to defend some and throw others under the bus is frightening. 

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11600586

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/8801359/Top-cyclist-tells-how-painkillers-give-him-edge

[BruinSkin]

http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow/sports-disgracedcollegecoaches/5/

 

I would suggest you pay special attention to the last line of the description at the bottom of the picture where it says that he had already accepted a job with Seattle BEFORE he was fired. So I am not inaccurate in how he skipped out.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/What-was-Pete-Carroll-s-part-in-the-USC-scandal-;_ylt=A0SO8wqQ_.dSbTkAjvBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzMDlwNmx2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1NNRTM5OF8x?urn=nfl,247361

 

This is also a very interesting article as well, yeah I am the one the is uninformed, right.

In the video he shows all the signs of lying, shifting his gaze away from the camera. I never could believe anyone that cannot look me straight in the eye with confidence.

 

So what you're saying is that Pete Carrol didn't know anything about what was going on in his locker room?? A former NFL coach with years of experience didn't know a single thing about what his players were doing or whether one of his star players was being approached by nefarious elements that would put his program at risk of sanctions along with harming his return to the NFL??

 

Pete is that you?? Aren't you supposed to be getting your team ready for what I hope will be their Little Big Horn??

 

Have to give it to you though....you sure coached Dick Sherman how to lie so convincingly to the media.

 

Just like you, a chip off the old turd.

 

I checked out your fighton247 and it is a pay to get on board so I'll save my money and keep my opinion of what really happened. I have done enough research to justify my opinions of that whole USC scam.

 

You have a right to believe what you wish to. If you choose to believe that Pete Carrol is completely innocent of the ****storm that came down on USC than I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

 

First of all, he wasn't fired and he wasn't going to allow himself to be. Mike Garrett essentially told him that it was probably best if he left. Carroll saw the writing on the wall and decided to make a go at it in the NFL. And who can blame him? The punishment didn't fit the crime. Ohio State and Miami had much worse penalties levied against multiple players involving actual school boosters and got far less than USC.  If anyone should be upset that at Carroll, it should be me. My senior year was the first year of the bowl ban.

 

San Diego (where Reggie's family resides) is over 200 miles away from Los Angeles. It was also the height of the housing bubble. His mother was a nurse, and they earn a decent salary in our state. Having a house worth $250k, in California, wouldn't raise a red flag in a dual income household. Even in today's economy, that's a modest amount of money for a house.

 

FightOn247 is a free board with certain posts that are behind a paywall (usually insider recruiting information, those posts are tagged with VIP). You are free to sign up for an account and start a thread. Please do. 

 

And please, stop with the personal attacks. I've been on this board over 10 years. Let's keep it civil.

[chipwhich]

He was talking about the law, not NFL guidelines.

 

Well if you are caught driving intoxicated with Marijuana in any state what's the law say then?  Freddy D was caught driving....so to speak.

[goskins10]

First off, I never mentioned it needing to be in large doses to have any affect at all. Not sure where you're pulling that one from.

 

Second, the NFL grants Adderall usage to some players confidentially. If it was as performance-enhancing as you say, wouldn't you think they'd not allow it at all? Same with the MLB. Its on their PED List, but 100+ players have been granted the right to take it. 

 

I'm not here to argue which is worse, pot or PEDs as I know PEDs are. In fact in my posts I specifically stated it wasn't a PED and it makes little to no sense for the NFL to not allow it at all. That said, I also was responding to Tatankgough who decided that if one player on a team takes something his teammates do as well.

Again though, you're ignoring some of the facts. If Adderall is a PED, so are quite a few painkillers. First off, if they're banned they give you a competitive advantage in a higher pain threshold and quicker "recovery" (in the short term sense). That doesn't even take into the account that some increase actual performance in other areas, like oxygen supply to blood/muscle. Studies on Acetaminophen even show it produces faster athletes. Again, performance-enhancing. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11600586

Now if simple Acetaminophen has a noticeable affect, what do you think stronger painkillers do? First off, the less you feel pain-wise, the more you can play vs a guy who has not taken a banned substance. That enhances performance. Second, just like Adderall, many painkillers can increase endurance, oxygen, etc...

 

So your "cheating" and "not-cheating, just stupid" bits are not exactly accurate. If you're taking something banned that others aren't, you're cheating. Plain and simple.

 

The lengths some folks here will go to defend some and throw others under the bus is frightening. 

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11600586

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/8801359/Top-cyclist-tells-how-painkillers-give-him-edge

 

 

This is your statement from comment #191 - "Adderall can be a "performance-enhancing" drug if used stupidly." You did not say over use exactly, but what else could stupidly mean? Also, you say you are not here to say which is worse pot or PEDs, that's exactly what you stated!  You said Adderall is not as bad as other substances being used by players, including Redskins implying the Redskins had as many cheaters as Seattle!

 

I pointed out with data that Adderall is a performance enhancing in normal therapeutic doses. The fact that the NFL allows it's use under doctors prescription does not make it less cheating when you use it to enhance without a prescription. Smoking pot is stupid but not cheating. Adderrall is performance enhancing therefore cheating, regardless of if you regard it as less enhancing as something else. Thats a ludicrous argument. That's like saying one woman is more pregnant than the other. You either are using PEDs and cheating or you are not. 

 

As for the pain killer thing, fair enough, let's assume you are right. I can't find the actual reports so I can't refute the pain killers were not performance enhancing, but that changes the score from 8 to 3 to 9 to 4! Seattle had more than double the numbers of cheaters we had!! 

 

This is not a defense so much as refuting your exaggerations and straw man statements without facts to support them. I said that what all the players did was stupid and they all should be punished to the fullest. I also provided the numbers and acknowledged that we were one of the 2 worst offenders in terms of suspensions. 

 

But you were saying A) Adderall isn't that bad, and B)You inferred we were just as bad a Seattle. While we definitely had some idiots, Seattle, was much worse. That's a fact not supposition. And Adderall is a PED, pot is not! Again, fact not supposition. 

[Rocket442Olds]

This is your statement from comment #191 - "Adderall can be a "performance-enhancing" drug if used stupidly." You did not say over use exactly, but what else could stupidly mean? Also, you say you are not here to say which is worse pot or PEDs, that's exactly what you stated!  You said Adderall is not as bad as other substances being used by players, including Redskins implying the Redskins had as many cheaters as Seattle!

 

I pointed out with data that Adderall is a performance enhancing in normal therapeutic doses. The fact that the NFL allows it's use under doctors prescription does not make it less cheating when you use it to enhance without a prescription. Smoking pot is stupid but not cheating. Adderrall is performance enhancing therefore cheating, regardless of if you regard it as less enhancing as something else. Thats a ludicrous argument. That's like saying one woman is more pregnant than the other. You either are using PEDs and cheating or you are not. 

 

As for the pain killer thing, fair enough, let's assume you are right. I can't find the actual reports so I can't refute the pain killers were not performance enhancing, but that changes the score from 8 to 3 to 9 to 4! Seattle had more than double the numbers of cheaters we had!! 

 

This is not a defense so much as refuting your exaggerations and straw man statements without facts to support them. I said that what all the players did was stupid and they all should be punished to the fullest. I also provided the numbers and acknowledged that we were one of the 2 worst offenders in terms of suspensions. 

 

But you were saying A) Adderall isn't that bad, and B)You inferred we were just as bad a Seattle. While we definitely had some idiots, Seattle, was much worse. That's a fact not supposition. And Adderall is a PED, pot is not! Again, fact not supposition. 

Adderall when taken without a Prescription is my definition of "stupidly". Do we know he doesn't have one anyway? Some may but I'm not sure. I'm guessing if he was given a suspension that he appealed he didn't have a prescription or the freedom to use it so he did so like an idiot. Not really defending him but there are plenty of PEDs that are more effective at increasing performance, we both know that. We don't know what most players did take, unless they or one of the investigators speaks up.

 

How many players are given anabolic steroids on prescription and allowed an exemption by the NFL vs Adderall? There is a big difference. You can look at the MLB, NHL, etc... for some numbers since the NFL is pretty secretive about it themselves. In terms of statistics the drug doesn't matter, but it sure as hell does based on on-field play. An Anabolic Steroid is going to help you more than Adderall. 

 

I also didn't once infer "we were just as bad as Seattle". I pointed out to a guy who has a bit too much anger directed towards one team and a few players that he had a double-standard, not that the NFL did.

 

 said that what all the players did was stupid and they all should be punished to the fullest. I also provided the numbers and acknowledged that we were one of the 2 worst offenders in terms of suspensions. 

 

As do I. I specifically said I don't think pots bad, but if someone is stupid enough to do it when its agreed upon by their employer and union that it is bad then should serve the penalty.

 

Adderall isn't as bad as the typical Steroid which is what was popular until now. Sherman says "Half" the players in the NFL are on Adderall. No clue how true that is, but 3 years ago that wasn't the case. Look at the positive tests that were released and when new drugs were added to the list. 

 

Smoking pot is stupid but not cheating. Adderrall is performance enhancing therefore cheating, regardless of if you regard it as less enhancing as something else. Thats a ludicrous argument. That's like saying one woman is more pregnant than the other. You either are using PEDs and cheating or you are not. 

Which is exactly why I brought up that you assumed that its worse for someone to use Adderall than a Painkiller. Effectively now comparing PEDs exactly as I am. Ironic.

 

 

 

Also, you say you are not here to say which is worse pot or PEDs, that's exactly what you stated!  You said Adderall is not as bad as other substances being used by players, including Redskins implying the Redskins had as many cheaters as Seattle!

Not sure what you're reading here, but I am in the same boat as you on this. Pot is not performance enhancing. Me comparing Adderall vs other PEDs is not comparing Pot vs PEDs, Right? I said Adderall isn't as bad as some (expanded above in this post for some clarification - and I didn't feel like getting into a useless pot debate), but not once to I imply that because of that we had as many suspensions as Seattle, just that Tatankgough shouldn't go off on such a tirade on a specific team when we're the next team below them. He responded saying that it is the NFL with targets on our back which is again ludicrous but I am not going to go into that in detail. Again, same as above, I mentioned "the entire redskins team" because Tatankgough mentioned that if Browner was doing PEDs, his "family/teammates" were definitely doing it as well. That is a flawed argument.

 

If I'm coming across like we are as bad with PEDs as Seattle that isn't my intent. My intent was to show that a specific argument had no feet to stand on. We agree on most of this, but you are upset I stated Adderall wasn't as bad as some PEDs, but then in the same post suggested that painkillers were not a big deal, despite being on the PED list.

[goskins10]

First and foremost, I am not upset. This is a discussion board. Unless i missed something that's what I thought we were doing, nothing more nothing less. 

 

Quote: 

Adderall when taken without a Prescription is my definition of "stupidly". Do we know he doesn't have one anyway? Some may but I'm not sure. I'm guessing if he was given a suspension that he appealed he didn't have a prescription or the freedom to use it so he did so like an idiot. Not really defending him but there are plenty of PEDs that are more effective at increasing performance, we both know that. We don't know what most players did take, unless they or one of the investigators speaks up.

 

That's a bit weak but Ok fair enough. But it you really should be more specific. WHen you just make the broad statement of "stupidly" you are leaving too much up for interpretation. ALso, he did not have a prescription when he was caught. He was let go because of faulty handling of the specimen ala Ryan Braun. 

 

IMO you statement read that you were at least implying that Adderall is no worse than pot, it's just a "minor" PED. Again, IMO taking a PED to improve your ability is much worse than doing some recreational drug to get high. Both are just as stupid and are clearly not allowed by contract and they get what they deserve. So I guess as far as Adderrall not being as a bad a PED we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

Quote: 

Which is exactly why I brought up that you assumed that its worse for someone to use Adderall than a Painkiller. Effectively now comparing PEDs exactly as I am. Ironic.

 

If you look above better you will see I agreed that some painkillers could be PEDs and changed the numbers to reflect such. So ou area wrong here. I do think most pain killers are just that, but in the end they could enhance to performance and I agreed to such above. My want to read that again. 

 

Quote:

Edit:. Forgot to mention, Shermans "PED" was ****ing Adderall. Another case of stupidity on the NFLs policies. Still stupid of him to take it, but again, not nearly as bad as the PEDs others are getting hit for (redskins included).

 

Adding the last "(redskins included)" implies we are the same or worse than seattle. And when you assume the pain killers are PEDs, since 2010 seattle has had 8 players caught cheating (9 if you include sherman which I think you should) and we had 4. seattle is by far the worst offender in the league as we are the second most penalized team. 

 

​In the end, we do agree for the most part. I just believe Adderall is just as bad as any PED where pot is a recreational drug. Again, it's just me but one is cheating the other is just stupid. Also, again the way it read to me, you saying we were as bad or worse than seattle. You say you didn't mean it that way, fair enough. I will eave it alone then.