grego Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Guys, our players on defense suck. alot of truth to that. outside of a couple of players (one or two solely on potential), there isnt much there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 If Jim Haslett was constantly super-ceded by Shanahan on (1) in-game playcalls... and (2) throwing out defensive gameplans on the Friday of game week.... why would any self-respecting professional coach accept a contract extension last year? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000064266/article/jim-haslett-receives-redskins-contract-extension Meh...Shanahan probably had to step in because Haslett was incompetent. I'll give him credit, Haslett must talk a helluva game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 alot of truth to that. outside of a couple of players (one or two solely on potential), there isnt much there. I think it was Evan Silva, respected NFL personnel guy, that recently tweeted in his review of Redskins Defensive personnel, "there is just nothing there" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngestson Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I was surprised by just how unsurprised I was. Who on earth keeps their job in today's NFL with that record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It ain't all that bad, I hear one if the best players in the draft is a stud DE, and since Houston will most likely pick a QB at #1, that would leave the stud for the skins to pick at..... Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think it was Evan Silva, respected NFL personnel guy, that recently tweeted in his review of Redskins Defensive personnel, "there is just nothing there" Just not sure if that's so. Hall had a very good year. Orakpo and Kerrigan are both top tier or one notch below. Amerson has some talent. Cofield's pretty good. Perry is average. I think the worst part of our defense is it didn't play to our strengths or hide our weaknesses. For example, if you have a poor secondary it's probably not a good idea not to do everything you can to generate pressure. Give a NFL QB five seconds against a good secondary and they'll make it look foolish, we gave QBs 6 seconds all too often against a bad secondary by rushing four and playing soft zones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The more deficiencies you have, the more they’re exposed on longer drives, like an inconsistent pass rush and missed tackles and poor zone pass coverage. Yes, if you say coaching was one of those then put that on the list, too. Maybe that’s why they allowed 58 pass plays for at least 20 yards (eighth most in the NFL). More room to defend; more big plays have a chance to occur. What do we know? Not like we didn't say it in year 1 of the 4 year debacle... Even if dude was a government employee and a union member, he would have been fired by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Yes, the defense ranked 18th in total yards per game, but the Redskins were 27th in yards per play (5.71). They were better over the final eight games, jumping to 19th(5.41). I don’t know if the Redskins’ defense improved as much as it faced less high-powered offenses. In the last half of the season, Washington played one top-10 offense compared to six in the first eight games i dont know how accurate of a picture that paints of our D. we played 12 or our 16 games vs the top 13 teams in the league in actual scoring. according to football outsiders (which may or may not be 100% accurate), our D played the second toughest schedule in the league vs opposing offenses. so, do you like yards or points as a measuring stick? we had the misfortune of being the first to face chip kellys O. then had to go to GB. we played well enough vs detroit and many other games this year. but the offense didnt score points. 6 or less points in one half of every single loss this year. our offense scored more than 7 points in both halves ONCE all year (vs CHI). thats ****ing horrendous. that, combined with a special teams that genuinely had no other unit to share the blame, and you have a whole team disaster. IMO, our D wasnt good, but they also had the misfortune of playing against some of the best scoring offenses in the league, along with a whole lot of crap working against them. Just not sure if that's so. Hall had a very good year. Orakpo and Kerrigan are both top tier or one notch below. Amerson has some talent. Cofield's pretty good. Perry is average. is cofield good? or is he a good DE playing NT? i think kerrigan was playing hurt since early in the season and orakpo looked like the player we expected the second half of the year. hall was very good early in the season in particular. amerson is still potential. but i like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 There is Daniel McCullers, DT, Tennessee Height: 6-8. Weight: 360. Projected 40 Time: 5.45. Projected Round (2014): 2-4 (This is Waltfootball btw) Worth a shot in the 3rd? If he pans out, best 3rd round pick we could make. He is actually more 6'6 345 (still massive) but with as many holes as we have I don't know how we take such a boom or bust guy. Maybe the 4th or 5th though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name="grego" post="9718133" timestamp= is cofield good? or is he a good DE playing NT? i think kerrigan was playing hurt since early in the season and orakpo looked like the player we expected the second half of the year. hall was very good early in the season in particular. amerson is still potential. but i like him. Not sure if we are disagreeing. I think the skins have talent, but that it isn't maximized or sometimes even properly utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Guys, our players on defense suck. Tired of reading about Haslett. He might not be the greatest but we had a starting roster that wouldn't even make the roster on many other teams The most vanilla defenses in the league are the best. The 49ers and Seahawks just line up in their base defenses and punch you in the mouth. You know why? Because they have players who are good at football Outside of 2, we do not. And neither of those two are pro bowlers. Whoops looks like Orakpo won a pro bowl nod by default. So, 1 is The difference between us and Seattle is that Seattle tailors their scheme to their players, not the other way around. Kerrigan and Orakpo are as good as any pair of edge rushers in the NFL.. Kerrigan playing injured and not getting sacks late in the season doesn't change that. Besides, if we played a 1 gap system and had Baker and Jenkins shoot their gaps every play I find it hard to believe it wouldn't be better.. could it be any worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Those numbers are sobering, but the stats sure do match what the naked eye sees, namely that there is no field long enough for a Haslett defense to protect. Field position, schmield position, teams can go as far as they need to go, whenever they need to. That's why no lead is ever safe with this guy, assuming he doesn't already have you down 20 points in the first half. The one thing Haslett's camp never fails to produce though is excuses. Historically bad in year 1, "it's not his fault he's installing a new system", dreadful in year 2, "Shanahan has been meddling with his playcalls and game plans" (though this never sees the light of day until year 4 is over), pretty rotten for 2/3 or more of year 3, "they're overcoming a lot of injuries", and next to the last in the league in scoring in year 4, "there never really was much talent on that side of the ball anyway." In the past 4 years we've added Kerrigan, Cofield, Bowen, Jenkins, Riley, Merriweather and Amerson to that side of the ball to add to Orakpo, Fletch, and Hall (not to mention a number of misfires that were on Haslett such as Atogwe, Carraker etc...). You could certainly argue that that's much more attention than has been paid to anything on the offense this side of the QB position. This defensive personnel isn't so bad that it should be bottom 1/3 over the past 4 years. Williams and Blatche had a much older, less talented crew top 10-15 routinely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 lets look at the last 2 months of the season- 9 games- and see how many points our D allowed compared to how many points each team scores on average. allowed/average SD- 24/ 24.8 (win) MIN- 34/ 24.4 (bad day for the D, but.........offense scored 3 after halftime) PHI- 24/ 27.6 (win- for the D) SF- 27/ 25.4 (O scored 6 all game, after which shanny proudly proclaimed we had a "top 5 or 6 offense!") NY- 24/ 18.4 (again, offense scored 3 points after halftime) KC- 45/ 26.9 (seriously, 2 ST TD's, and possibly the worst performance in NFL history by a ST unit. and the O scored 0 points in the second half....seeing a recurring theme here?) ATL- 27/ 22.1 (offense scored 6 points in the second half) DAL- 24/ 27.4 (offense scored 6 points in the first half despite a nice effort by the D) NY- 20/ 18.4 (6 points the whole game. 0 after halftime) minny was bad. but, outside of that game, how bad was our D really over the last 9 games? especially considering how little help the D had from the O? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 grego, it's not always as simple as raw stats. Just for example, the PHI and SF games. Those teams drubbed us early, which was the fault of both the offense and defense, then completely took their foot off the gas and ran the clock in the 2nd Half. That might make our PPG or YPG totals on defense look ok, but the fact is that our defense couldn't stop either team when the game was actually up for grabs. I was at the SF game, and I can assure you I've never seen so many receivers running free in a secondary, on one TD pass to Davis, he was the least open of 3 receivers in the endzone. Yet you look at the raw numbers in that game, and it looks average. Well, it's not. When the season was still meaningful, and we were playing against good offenses, Haslett's D got lit up like a Christmas tree. Over the final 7 games, once the season was toast and we only faced 1 top 10 offense, we appeared to improve. That is the definition of fool's gold, and we're heading into year 5 of it with Jim Haslett's putrid defenses. PS: You're right the offense tanked terribly down the stretch, and our ST was historically bad... The difference, those units have had a coaching overhaul, whereas the culprit of 4 years of bottom feeder defenses is returning. Read Keim's article today to understand just how bad, even worse than the numbers, Haslett's defense was this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 grego, it's not always as simple as raw stats. Just for example, the PHI and SF games. Those teams drubbed us early, which was the fault of both the offense and defense, then completely took their foot off the gas and ran the clock in the 2nd Half. That might make our PPG or YPG totals on defense look ok, but the fact is that our defense couldn't stop either team when the game was actually up for grabs. I was at the SF game, and I can assure you I've never seen so many receivers running free in a secondary, on one TD pass to Davis, he was the least open of 3 receivers in the endzone. Yet you look at the raw numbers in that game, and it looks average. Well, it's not. When the season was still meaningful, and we were playing against good offenses, Haslett's D got lot up like a Christmas tree. Over the final 7 games, once the season was toast and we only faced 1 top 10 offense, we appeared to improve. That is the definition of fool's gold, and we're in year 5 of it with Jim Haslett's putrid defenses. i dont disagree. for the record, i'd love to have wade phillips here. (although whether or not an O takes its foot off the gas is debatable. SF scored 10 the first half (10-6 at the half- a competitive game) while our O failed to reach the end zone vs SF and for one half in the first philly game and for 3 full quarters in the second- edit- we were completely shut out the first half of the first philly game, and the first 3 quarters of the second philly game. no FGs, no TDs. nada) my point is that our D wasnt quite as bad as it appeared on paper. (while the O failed to carry its own weight in virtually every game) the whole team was bad- not just the D. there is a reason our D is ranked 22nd in DVOA and our O is ranked 23rd on football outsiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 i dont disagree. for the record, i'd love to have wade phillips here. my point is that our D wasnt quite as bad as it appeared on paper. (while the O failed to carry its own weight in virtually every game) the whole team was bad- not just the D. Totally agree with you. See my edited addition above to see how I agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 DC's with poor histories turning it around with better personnel is not unheard of, so at least there is some hope even if the odds are against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Good article, good read. My hope is that Jay Gruden focuses a ton of attention on drafting/acquiring quality defensive players despite him being an offensive guy. That's what Gibbs was able to do his entire career....have a quality, pretty much top ten defense despite being an offensive guy. I hope to the good lord above that are new coach and front office realize how important it is to get a tough Redskins defense back in Washington. We've lost our identity and we need to get that part of our team's makeup back. We need to mirror the Seattle Seahawks, not the New Orleans Saints. The emphasis must be on the defensive side of the ball this year. It's the only way we'll be successful moving forward. My biggest fear is of the patchwork variety where we'll just "patch" a couple of holes. That strategy never works no matter which phase you're talking about. The media and fans seem to focus waaaaayyyy too much on Robert and the offense and not enough on how deplorable our defense has been since Gibbs left. That has to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieskin Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Stats can be easily manipulated to say what a person wants, simply we are good at the ends we need some help in the interior line and we are losing our best linebacker, we stink at safety and we are ok at the corners, Keim says money wont fix our problems, buying better players will make a big difference to our Defence, and we do need the Offence to stay on the field longer, when we have the ball the opposition cant score, i believe that this will be corrected before September this year, also Special teams stinks so bad i am surprised fans dont wear gas masks, again something that i am hoping gets fixed before september, using Santana Moss as the punt returner could be a possible answer, oh for the sweet days of ol #28 dancing and hurdling his way into the endzone at the end of a punt return, i am hoping a new coach and a new system will help solve the problems we have. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemocystem Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The Defense is bad, but it can be helped with a few key additions, I think...even with Haslett at the helm. Going forward, I will simply hope that this can be the base expectation. From there, I imagine that if you're able to add some quality depth, & some marginally better coaching at ST, then you can actually expect a large improvement on that side of the ball. After that...adding to the strengths of the O-line, & 1 more solid playmaker at WR you can really move this Offense in the right direction. Paired with a healthy RGIII, & some (hopefully) improved play-calling...& we might actually move the ball more for longer drives, end some more of those with some points, & keep the other offense off the field. It's a lot of ifs....but many of them fall along the same line of progression. I think a fair amount of improvement in these areas can make us competitive for the Division. Then another year of picks & FA's may be just what we need to put is in some real conversations. All things considered. ..I have 2 main concerns: 1) there just doesn't seem to be any available market where we can greatly improve the ILB position. This is an issue. 2) the same can be said for the LG, & RT spots. Unless...we overpay for a LT who would agree to move to RT, & then play well at that spot......well...I think our real answer at those positions in the next 2 years would be to hit a home run in the middle rounds of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanoker Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Anyway one wants to cut it 3-13 is a beat down. The D was a joke and a heartbreaker. The cruelest prank of all was 3rd and long. Expecting to get off the field, oftentimes, the opposing offense would crush all fan enthusiam by running through gaping holes, missed tackles, or a pass for a long gain or TD. The article was interesting, however, Imo it was like finding a few grains of wheat in a pile of manure. Hopefully, last year's D is in the rear view mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1198skinsfuture Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 i think if u look at it when our d goes into zone...alot of times when the field is longer...we get eaten alive esp inside the hash marks...but when we man up with a shorter field we played better...since haslett is staying ...I hope and PRAY that he stops trying to confuse opposing offenses with his "zone coverages" and notice that our guys r 10000x better in man than zone...and play as such... and i think the way he defends Romo sits to pee and the cowboys...is prob one of the biggest reasons they kept haslett around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 DC's with poor histories turning it around with better personnel is not unheard of, so at least there is some hope even if the odds are against it. It's 100 percent personnel at this level. See Nolan, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 It's 100 percent personnel at this level. See Nolan, Mike Nah, strategy has to count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Nah, strategy has to count for something. Number one you are building a straw man. Number two you have a homer outlook on out personnel. San Fran runs the most vanilla defense in the NFL. The Tampa Two under Dungy was even more basic than that. I would encourage you to read his book he spends some time on his defensive philosophy and why talent matters so much How is Monte Kiffin doing in Dallas btw? How many times did you hear 'rare blitz from Fangio' during the NFC championship last week? These are all clues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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