Chalk Talk: No X & O Talk, but I'm Chalk Full of Positivity!

[darrelgreenie]

Wait what? When did we get a 1st round pick back?

[ThomasRoane]

The only thing we know about Dan's relationship with Griffin was leaked by a HC who is in total CYA mode.

We have no idea whether or not Dan's relationship with Griffin is too close or not. And I'm not going to believe a media leaked report, I know better then that.

 

Dan's mistake was trusting Shanahan too much.

 

Robert didn't deny it yesterday in the press conference.  And you can't deny that there's a big disconnect between Robert and the rest of the team.  No one likes the 'teacher's pet.'  Dan didn't just wreck the relationship with the coach.  More importantly, he hurt Robert in the eyes of the rest of the team.  Pierre has been at odds with Robert all year.  Darrell Green called Robert out.  Moss called Robert out.  The O-line pretty much said screw you at the 49ers game.  AND!  Robert's daddy was allowed to be in the locker room after the game to complain that the O-line wouldn't help his son off the ground!  This ain't little league.  It's the N-F-L!!! 

[Ghost of]

I'm with you if Dan moves out of Redskin's Park and stays out of the way.  And he must cease his childish, fantasy football geek fawning over players. 

You are aware that Dan moved his office out of there right? THat may have even been when Shanahan was hired but it's certainly been the case. You are also aware that having contact with your players is not the same thing as fawning over them. I don't think it was inappropriate to be there when Griffin was done with his surgery.  That's a human thing to do and it's something Snyder has done repeatedly, by loaning the plane to players going for funerals, births, etc.

[PlayAction]

Nope, we have our first rounder next year. And if it's any consolation... we're so bad that our #2 is almost like a low #1... and our #3 is almost like a low #2... etc.

 

We don't have a first round pick in the upcoming draft but that's the end of the RG3 penalty.  The Rams will receive higher value picks than they could have expected.  If they are smart they should consider trading away one of their two first round picks for future picks and perhaps trading down, if possible, from the Skins pick.

[Ghost of]

I thought our first rounder next year was part of the deal as well. 

Nope, just 2 1sts and, I think, a 2nd (last year.) And obviously the pick SPENT to take Griffin.  I think a lot of people are confused about this and have kept hearing "four picks" when it was 3 or looking at how St.L. traded down to get extra picks and then somehow including those.  That's not accurate or fair.  Once this draft is over, the price we paid is done with and we have all of our picks.

[ThomasRoane]

You are aware that Dan moved his office out of there right? THat may have even been when Shanahan was hired but it's certainly been the case. You are also aware that having contact with your players is not the same thing as fawning over them. I don't think it was inappropriate to be there when Griffin was done with his surgery.  That's a human thing to do and it's something Snyder has done repeatedly, by loaning the plane to players going for funerals, births, etc.

 

I was going off what B mitch said.  He claims Dan is still there.  Robert didn't deny having Thanksgiving with the owner (London Fletcher can never claim that honor), having use of Dan Snyder's private security, his fiance being chauffeured in Dan's limo, plane trips for Robert's parents, special locker room access for Robert's dad,... just to name a few.  Those are all special privileges that are not given to any other players and that breeds resentment.  So Robert was already disliked for that and when he threw his O-line, coaches, and receivers under the bus after the Philly game that just magnified everything.

 

Bottom line is no good can, or has, come of it so stop it already!!!

[PlayAction]

Nope, just 2 1sts and, I think, a 2nd (last year.) And obviously the pick SPENT to take Griffin.  I think a lot of people are confused about this and have kept hearing "four picks" when it was 3 or looking at how St.L. traded down to get extra picks and then somehow including those.  That's not accurate or fair.  Once this draft is over, the price we paid is done with and we have all of our picks.

 

The upcoming draft is next calendar year and we don't have a first round pick.  Year 1 - trade first and second to acquire 2nd overall pick used for RG3.  Year 2 - the draft last April - we sent our first round pick to St Lous.  Year 3 - upcoming draft - we will send our first round pick to St Louis and that's the end of it.

[KDawg]

Wait what? When did we get a 1st round pick back?

we didnt. I say this year and mean 2014. I say next year and mean 2015.

[darrelgreenie]

Robert didn't deny it yesterday in the press conference.  And you can't deny that there's a big disconnect between Robert and the rest of the team.  No one likes the 'teacher's pet.'  Dan didn't just wreck the relationship with the coach.  More importantly, he hurt Robert in the eyes of the rest of the team.  Pierre has been at odds with Robert all year.  Darrell Green called Robert out.  Moss called Robert out.  The O-line pretty much said screw you at the 49ers game.  AND!  Robert's daddy was allowed to be in the locker room after the game to complain that the O-line wouldn't help his son off the ground!  This ain't little league.  It's the N-F-L!!! 

You can believe whatever you like. I don't beleive there is a disconnect between Griffin and the rest of the team. But, that has been one of the narratives being constructed.

You are assuming the report is true, meanwhile your boy Mike denied part of the report today.

You take something that happens and you are choosing to believe the media spin it.

I was watching inside the NFL when Green was a guest on Inside the NFL did you watch? Because Green did not 'call Griffin out'

Neither did Moss nor Garcon.

And if you watch alot of NFL QBs pick themselves up off the ground all the time.

And the TEAM let Griffin's dad in the locker room Griffin stated he was SURPRISED to see his father in the locker room.

And for the record other player's family memeber have been in the locker room before too.

 

You've bought into the narrative hook line and sinker.

 

When Mike get's fired it will be because Griffin is a coach killer!

Not because of the personnel decisions, and failures on special teams and defense.

[MrJL]

The glass half full is that we DO have talent. 

 

On offense we have all the important building blocks to be a very very good offense. Franchise QB and LT, very good (if not quite elite), WR, Pro Bowl Calibre RB, excellent young pass catching TE. We need to switch up the running system IMO to incorporate power concepts as well as some ZBS and get bigger and better up front. Get the right OC and a full offseason working with RGIII and we should be more than fine on that side of the ball.

 

On defense pickings are slimmer and a infusion of talent is needed starting with a true NT (assuming we stick with the 3-4). We have two good (if not elite) OLBs and some talent at corner in Hall and Amerson. Apart from that NT we need to replace Fletcher (the version from 3 years ago not what we have right now), add two starting safeties and a starting corner to allow Amerson more time to develop.

 

We then need a coordinator who can get the best out of whatever talent we put on the field.

 

Finding 5 starters on defense and at least 2 maybe 3 on offense is a tall order for one offseason with no first round pick. No impossible though given we have some cap space back.

 

The biggest need of all though is a true GM to pick the coach and find the players who fit what that coach wants to run. The HC should be allowed to hire is own OC and DC and then work with these guys to fill out the staff. Without that GM I fear we just keep going round the same cycle.

 

 

I don't think they'll need that many starters on D.

 

Go to the 4-3 and all our current DL can play DT.  I'd put Rak and Kerrigan's hands in the dirt, Dallas tried it with Ware and Spencer.  I'd keep Jackson at OLB, since I like his coverage skills.  Riley will be MLB that leaves one OLB.  In the secondary bring back Hall.  Hopefully Amerson and Thomas can take two spots.  That leaves one safety and some backups in the back seven.

 

On the O-line we'll need two or three guys.  Monty will play better with better players around him.  Kory and Polumbus can battle this years backups for the backup positions.  

 

Way I see it we need about six starters who aren't on the team this season and hopefully a couple will come out of the draft in the second and third round.

[Mr. Sinister]

Great OP. I think Snyder has had to lern several lessons as an owner. Hopefully this is the last one. Several people working together, towards one goal. No more dictatorships. No more full autonomy. You have a better chance at being great if you have organizational structure like that.

[JesseNeckred]

literally every thread is devolving into the same arguments!

 

I for one completely agree with the OP

[FuriousD]

We have enough talent to be at least a 0.500 team. It's poor coaching that got us to here.

 

And hopefully the new folks won't try to burn the house down in implementing their systems.

 

And as for the draft, we may be just one spot below the place we would be if we'd won the Superbowl. 

Ha ha, I like the sound of that and even more the pic of Father Jack as your avatar.  God, I loved that show!!!

[Fergasun]

I'll hit from the sugar pipe all day, but....

 

Hiring Shanahan was a mistake we all would've made.  Who knows, maybe trading for Griffin III turns out the same way too (it'll probably take 2 more NFL seasons until we know). 

 

Probably one of the worst seasons in recent memory for 'Skins fans, but you know what?  It'll all be over soon!

 

Winning in the NFL ain't easy, and it truly is "not for long".... who would've predicted this debacle in January?

[KDawg]

I'll hit from the sugar pipe all day, but....

 

Hiring Shanahan was a mistake we all would've made.  Who knows, maybe trading for Griffin III turns out the same way too (it'll probably take 2 more NFL seasons until we know). 

 

Probably one of the worst seasons in recent memory for 'Skins fans, but you know what?  It'll all be over soon!

 

Winning in the NFL ain't easy, and it truly is "not for long".... who would've predicted this debacle in January?

 

But the mistake wasn't necessarily hiring Shanahan. It was giving him full control.

 

Having said that, as the OP suggests, he only gave him full control because he was in damage control mode and the only way he was going to get Shanahan was if he got everything he wanted.

 

That was a mistake. A large one. Just because it's understandable (and it really is) doesn't make it less of a mistake.

[MartinC]

I don't think they'll need that many starters on D.

 

Go to the 4-3 and all our current DL can play DT.  I'd put Rak and Kerrigan's hands in the dirt, Dallas tried it with Ware and Spencer.  I'd keep Jackson at OLB, since I like his coverage skills.  Riley will be MLB that leaves one OLB.  In the secondary bring back Hall.  Hopefully Amerson and Thomas can take two spots.  That leaves one safety and some backups in the back seven.

 

You could certainly put a 4-3 defense on the field with maybe a couple of additions - maybe with a good DC you could see an improvement on this years performance (not a high bar). But to put a good defense on the field (and that has to be the objective), one that is top 10 in points allowed and creates short fields and opportunity for the offense, you need more than two new starters on D. Four GOOD new starters is the minimum IMO whatever scheme we run.

[Pedro]

This is nowhere near as bad as any of our more recent regime change scenarios.

 

People are forgetting just how badly run our organisation has been all through Dan's tenure (that includes Joe, he worked wonders with the players on the field but the GM side was poor at best).  As bad as it is we are not loaded down with old, declining players on 'cap magic' contracts we can't afford to cut.  Last time we changed HC we had zip talent wise and a crippled cap.  This time around we have a roster that good coaching/play won a division last year plus we have money to spend.  Add two OL and a WR on O, and a NT/ILB/FS on D and our roster is a very good one with good coaching.

 

We're down a 1st round pick, but our record will mean our 2nd is very good, same for our 3rd and 4th.  Added on is Shanny's stunt to get the push (possibly play Kirk the last 3 games) may result in the game film he needs to be shifted for a good pick.

 

The big question is do we go to the GM led model, even if it's an Allen/Brown tandem, but as far as regime change goes we're in a great position this time around.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

We know Shanny is too loyal to his coaches.  The mistake was not giving Bruce Allen the power to fire/hire new coaches.  Haslett should have been fired way earlier.  We have some talent on defense, we have some solid pieces to fill in the gaps, we just don't use them well together at all.

 

I'm curious when FootballOutsiders DVOA article comes out today, we might have the worst Special Teams in their recorded history (goes back to either 1991 or 1989).  Shanny should not have been in charge of hiring the special teams coach, or of not firing the defensive coordinator.

 

I think I would argue a little bit against taking away his personnel role for building the roster.  It's clear he needs someone to be like, "Mike...we need ****ing special teamers."  But then again with the cap penalty, we can't exactly go after proven vet special teamers.