NFL Experts' Bleak Assesment of Skins Roster

[PlayAction]

There are several threads discussing dumping the coaching staff and we've had some discussion of the dearth of talent on the defense and parts of the offense.  It's alarming though when the pros agree with our bleak assessment of the roster. 

 

Defense

 

One NFL executive says we are pretty close to starting from scratch to improve the defense.  Outside of Kerrigan and maybe Cofield there's no one to build around.  Riddick says that neither Kerrigan nor Orakpo is an elite pass rusher in the 3-4.  Perry Riley is just an average starter in the NFL.

 

Offense

 

The OL needs work.  According to Casserly we need to upgrade RT but Riddick thinks the entire OL, with the sole exception of Trent Williams, needs to be changed.  Riddick believes that the line has to be overhauled because RG3 will need extra protection while he attempts to become a pocket passer.  Worse, he thinks the odds of RG3 ever becoming a good pocket passer are just 50-50.

 

Per NFL execs we have the following building blocks for a good offense - Williams, Morris, Garcon and Reed.  Whether Garcon is really a number 2 quality WR or a #1 the professional assessment is that he needs a really good big WR that can run for the offense to succeed.  None of the other WRs on the roster fit the bill (including Hankerson).

 

 

It's not that the professionals are saying much that the fans having already complained about.  But, when our views are confirmed by the experts it's really disheartening.  Obviously, both the emperor's ransom of draft picks to acquire RG3 and the 36 million dollar cap penalty have hurt.  Still!  Interestingly, Casserly doesn't believe there's a problem with the coaching.  It's the lack of talent on the roster and according to Riddick the dearth of talent can't be fixed in one year (one more year without a first round pick doesn't help either).

 

I tried to paste the link to the Wash Post article but couldn't get it to stick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Pretty bleak, but pretty accurate. Don't really agree with the RG3 assessment. DY is a stud for what he does, too. But you can't really consider a FB a building block.

[theTruthTeller]

link

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

So what it's 2077 before we can compete now?

[Tyron Biggums]

 Still!  Interestingly, Casserly doesn't believe there's a problem with the coaching.  It's the lack of talent on the roster and according to Riddick the dearth of talent can't be fixed in one year (one more year without a first round pick doesn't help either).

 

I tried to paste the link to the Wash Post article but couldn't get it to stick.

Basically it comes down to bad moves by Shanny as GM/EVP, and the lingering effects of Vinney's inept moves as well. At least we got that going for us.

 

HTTR

[darrelgreenie]

Good OP some fans do need expert opinion despite seeing it every Sunday.

But I disagree with 2 things (1) questioning whether Griffin makes the transition to pocket passer at 50-50

(2) coaching has to be a factor because despite the talent issues it is the same team we had last year and at the VERY minimum upgrading the special teams would clearly improve the team.

[Bishop Hammer]

"If there was no eternal conscioness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there lay a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable, insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"

Soren Kierkegaard

[theTruthTeller]

Good OP some fans do need expert opinion despite seeing it every Sunday.

But I disagree with 2 things (1) questioning whether Griffin makes the transition to pocket passer at 50-50

(2) coaching has to be a factor because despite the talent issues it is the same team we had last year and at the VERY minimum upgrading the special teams would clearly improve the team.

I think part of the 50-50 analysis on whether Griffin makes the transition to a pocket passer was because of a very bad OL hindering his progress.

[MrJL]

Riddick is a former scout for the Skins and Eagles.  Skins and Eagles haven't been great recently

 

Casserly is at the network because he can't get an NFL job

 

key there is former.  Another guy has anonymity.  We have no idea of his skills either

 

Who do you build around?  How about Orakpo and Hall?  Riley is an average NFL starter?  Average starters are starters that don't need to be replaced.  

 

I'd say we need six or seven guys to help this team next year.  Two or three O-L.  An ILB, a DB or two.  With a second and third we can get two guys.  Maybe we can get an extra pick for KC.  Honestly I might trade our second with next years first for a late first this year.  Either way we end up with 2 firsts in four years and we don't have the gap of two year between first round talent.  

[Burgold]

I largely disagree.  I think we have above average talent throughout this roster even on defense.  If we didn't we couldn't have pulled off that 7 game winning streak.  We returned that defense plus added Orakpo and Merriweather.  At worst we should be a middling defense.  Instead, we are abysmal.  That's coaching.  That's teams beating us on the chess board and in preparation.  That's an inability to adjust in game or worse an inability to adjust to a team's adjustments.

 

If we look on offense, we have several of the most important pieces.  LT, RB, WR, TE, LT, and yes, QB are all there.  The o-line does need serious upgrading, but that's enough talent to win and even with the poor play of the line and Griffin this year, it's still piling up the stats.

 

The special teams... okay, I don't know what to say about the special teams, but there's got to be more to it than talent because I've never in my life seen a special teams this bad and I don't think the unit is worse talentwise than every single special teams group in the history of the NFL!

 

I promise you with better coaching and schemes critics would speak differently about our talent level.  That's not to say we couldn't use more talent, but the cupboard isn't bare.  The problem is multi-layered.  Talent and coaching... and psycholgy too.

[MrJL]

the problem with adding Merriweather to the D is that for every big tackle or INT you can also add a i5 yd unsportsmanlike that just makes it harder for the D to hold.  Our DL constantly getting hurt doesn't help and London has slowed down.

 

I do agree that once teams adjust to what we do we are pretty helpless

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

And this is what he's built after FOUR years. 

 

Someone, please, straight faced, tell us again how this product in reality (I.E. Where it matters most. On the actual field of play); is ANY better than the Zorn shambles.

 

Disgraceful. And the cap penalty doesn't excuse this away.

 

Hail. 

[Burgold]

Here's another reason why I really think it comes down to coaching (risking laughter)

 

Preseason.

 

During preseason our number ones were outshining everyone else's number ones.  In fact, our number twos were looking good playing against their number ones.  Now, what that tells me is that in a vanilla scheme where it's mano y mano and talent matters most... we're okay.  The talent is there.  The moment someone began scheming against us though... we look like the keystone cops.

 

We were worldbeaters when it was basic football.  We looked great.  Some of that is effort, a lot of that is sheme, but a good portion of it is talent too.  We were winninig the one on one battles.

[Fred Jones]

The article brings up an interesting point to argue and one I have long ago pick sides.  The aquisition of talent is more valuable than coaching.  I don't disagree you always want a good coach, but for many of the coaches in the NFL, not a lot separates them besides the talent around them.

 

My point is not to add to the discussion about whether to keep or discard the coaching staff, but to say the acquisition of talent has been the biggest disappointment for many years.  So, to me, the number one thing we need to do this off season is to bring in a GM to run the personnel side of things.  Someone that can build an NFL roster.  That probably means cutting the coaches, but to me, building the roster has been his biggest disappointment, not coaching.

 

The second thing is not necessarily dump the roster, but begin the purge to replace the many many needs pointed out in this article and many other threads on the board.

[MrJL]

And this is what he's built after FOUR years. 

 

Someone, please, straight faced, tell us again how this product in reality (I.E. Where it matters most. On the actual field of play); is ANY better than the Zorn shambles.

 

Disgraceful. And the cap penalty doesn't excuse this away.

 

Hail. 

 

 

stop acting like it's some sort of straight progression.  It's not.  Yes it's be very nice if all the moves he made had worked out, but we probably would have the guys we do have if Donovan hadn't been a bust, Jammal Brown had recovered from his hip injury and Albert Hanyesworth had actually been willing to try to earn his money.

 

And honestly look back at the rosters of previous years on Wikipedia.  We are a team that finishes every year with a lot of people expected to contribute on the injured list at the end of each year.

[Rufus T Firefly]

The end of the article is the most interesting part to me. I don't buy the superstitious way a lot of people look at Free Agency, but Riddick is right that it is very hard to build a team or fill in the talent gaps we have that way. You better be nailing your picks.

 

I would give Shanahan maybe a C- for the way he's signed players since he's been here (which is probably a bit generous). Just no way is that good enough going forward.

[Fred Jones]

And this is what he's built after FOUR years. 

 

Someone, please, straight faced, tell us again how this product in reality (I.E. Where it matters most. On the actual field of play); is ANY better than the Zorn shambles.

 

I hate to sit here and admit this out loud, but the more this season has progressed the more I cannot argue with GHH's point.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I hate to sit here and admit this out loud, but the more this season has progressed the more I cannot argue with GHH's point.

 

Wait! Is he saying I never have good points?

 

Why Mr Jones. You lil' ******! 

 

Hail. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

I hate to sit here and admit this out loud, but the more this season has progressed the more I cannot argue with GHH's point.

None of us like to admit that. Bring it in for a hug, man.

[War Paint]

Funny, I remember in the preseason several analysts were saying how deep our roster was.  I just don't buy the "lack of talent" excuse as the main reason we suck.  Yes, we need to upgrade our trenches, but some are acting like our entire team is practice squad, back up quality with the exception of four players.  Good coaching builds around the strengths of the players they have.  Our coaches seem to put square pegs into round holes.  Cofield should probably be a DE in a good 3-4 and not the NT.  I do think we need to upgrade from Orakpo because he doesn't excel in a 3-4.  We need a true NT.  We need to find a good ILB to replace London with. With the salary cap and such, every team has weaknesses somewhere on their roster.  If a team is loaded with talent, they will eventually lose a lot of players in FA.

 

I hope we upgrade a lot of this coaching staff.  Player wise, we need to upgrade the trenches.  If they want to convert Robert into a pocket passer (bad idea IMO) we need to get away from the small, athletic olinemen and get bigger players to pass protect.

[theTruthTeller]

I largely disagree.  I think we have above average talent throughout this roster even on defense.  If we didn't we couldn't have pulled off that 7 game winning streak.  We returned that defense plus added Orakpo and Merriweather.  At worst we should be a middling defense.  Instead, we are abysmal.  That's coaching.  That's teams beating us on the chess board and in preparation.  That's an inability to adjust in game or worse an inability to adjust to a team's adjustments. ...

If there is one thing my advanced years have taught me about the game of football, it's that weakness up the middle almost always results in tragedy.  If you draw a box from the OGs to the safeties, that is the weak spot in the team.  OG, C, OG, DE, NT, DE, ILB, ILB, S, S.  Maybe some of these players would be okay-to-good with better people around them - which hopefully is true because they can't all be replaced in a year.

 

I don't put a lot of stock in the argument that its the same defense, because its the same coaching as well.  And in any case, why are the results from seven games in 2012 more relevant than the 11 games of 2013?

[bradboyd80]

Pretty much seems spot on to me. Agree with most of you in that we need to upgrade the trenches. Without a pass rush, the secondary will get exposed; no matter who is back there. And we need to upgrade the entire OL except for Williams to protect RG3.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

stop acting like it's some sort of straight progression.  It's not.  Yes it's be very nice if all the moves he made had worked out, but we probably would have the guys we do have if Donovan hadn't been a bust, Jammal Brown had recovered from his hip injury and Albert Hanyesworth had actually been willing to try to earn his money.

 

And honestly look back at the rosters of previous years on Wikipedia.  We are a team that finishes every year with a lot of people expected to contribute on the injured list at the end of each year.

 

Seriously man, tell me how, in reality where it matters most, on the actual field of play, this is ANY better than the Zorn debacle?

 

The roster is younger and on paper you'd take it over what he inherited. But is it THAT much stronger really? 3-8. He fails to win 2 more games this year, and he's no worse than either of Zorn's 2 years. FOUR years in. And headed for 3 double digit loss seasons out of 4. Which would of been 4/4 bar a miracle late run-in last term.

 

Bad Coaching. Bad Discipline. Sub-standard players. Piss poor displays. Rudderless leadership. Locker room infighting. 

 

It's like Zorn deja vu all over again. 

 

Hail. 

[MrJL]

Seriously man, tell me how, in reality where it matters most, on the actual field of play, this is ANY better than the Zorn debacle?

 

The roster is younger and on paper you'd take it over what he inherited. But is it THAT much stronger really? 3-8. He fails to win 2 more games this year, and he's no worse than either of Zorn's 2 years. FOUR years in. And headed for 3 double digit loss seasons out of 4. Which would of been 4/4 bar a miracle late run-in last term.

 

Bad Coaching. Bad Discipline. Sub-standard players. Piss poor displays. Rudderless leadership. Locker room infighting. 

 

It's like Zorn deja vu all over again. 

 

Hail. 

 

 

I don't believe the claims of locker room infighting.  And that run counts.  You don't just get to say because it was really impressive it doesn't.  We have a playoff run and a QB.  

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I don't believe the claims of locker room infighting.  And that run counts.  You don't just get to say because it was really impressive it doesn't.  We have a playoff run and a QB.  

 

In the overall picture the run last year means diddly squat asd it's the anomaly to the norm. Every other year has been a complete, unadulterated double digit loss disaster. Which we've regressed back into this year culminating in last Monday nights utter disgrace which rivalled ANYTHING Zorn put out. 

 

For evidence of locker room in fighting just look at whichever play is attacking whichever other player this week through the media.

 

Things are BADLY wrong within this whole group and the real frightening thing is I don't think we've totally bottomed out yet. I can see it getting even worse than Monday the longer it rolls this year. 

 

Hail.