NFL Experts' Bleak Assesment of Skins Roster

[grego]

 

 

Who do you build around?  How about Orakpo and Hall?  Riley is an average NFL starter?  Average starters are starters that don't need to be replaced.  

 

 

 

orakpo seems to be roundly criticized as either a one trick pony or underacheiver. hall just turned 30. you want to build around that?

 

im surprised theres not more agreement with this article. it seems pretty obvious that our team is either old or, mainly, just not very good at alot of positions.

 

and outside of a young guy like amerson, our future doesnt look so promising either.(i am hopeful griff can get it together and be good.)

 

i do think, btw, that our whole team - defense, offense and ST- could be better with better coaching. but i also think the players just arent very good.  

 

i think we are killing the messengers cuz we dont like the message. 

We just need to switch back to the 4-3. It's so simple. 

 

 

1 out of three problems fixed. so, its not that simple. 

[MrJL]

orakpo seems to be roundly criticized as either a one trick pony or underacheiver. hall just turned 30. you want to build around that?

 

im surprised theres not more agreement with this article. it seems pretty obvious that our team is either old or, mainly, just not very good at alot of positions.

 

and outside of a young guy like amerson, our future doesnt look so promising either.(i am hopeful griff can get it together and be good.)

 

i do think, btw, that our whole team - defense, offense and ST- could be better with better coaching. but i also think the players just arent very good.  

 

i think we are killing the messengers cuz we dont like the message. 

 

 

1 out of three problems fixed. so, its not that simple. 

 

 

DBs can last quite a bit longer than they used to these days.  The idea that our team is old is ludicrous.

 

http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/redskins-starters-average-4th-oldest-nfl

 

one or two guys skew the result

[martytheman]

well around the forum there's this tendency to take the bad and ignore the good. The only excuse for a Skins loss had better be "what do you expect when you send scrubs out to pretend they're NFL players." Like last year, people act like every loss before the run at the end was as bad as the Carolina loss.

Forget that we had a shot against the Rams until we were flagged for unsportsmanlike when it was just our guy retaliating. That against the Giants it was one botched play that did us in. We win against Chicago this year, everyone points out they lost Cutler. We lose to the Bengals last year not having Garcon and losing Williams is no excuse. San Diego beats themselves by not scoring from the one because of bad play calls. We drop ten passes against Pittsburgh last year, they're the better team

Truth. Grass is always greener syndrome.

[PlayAction]

DBs may last longer but at age 30 the risk of a drop-off increases.  Hall is playing at a higher than normal level for his tenure with the team.  I'd like to keep him but he doesn't warrant another major contract.  He can complement other players but he's not a foundation stone for the secondary.

 

Those missing draft picks certainly have a potential impact on the team.  I agree with the poster above that the quality of the player selected is more important than the first round pick.  The Rams seem to continue losing despite an extra 2nd, and 1st to date.  Keep in mind that the Skins might have spent three first round picks + a second on a QB who will never be better than average.  That thought is worse than the bleak assessment in the Post article

[grego]

DBs can last quite a bit longer than they used to these days.  The idea that our team is old is ludicrous.

 

http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/redskins-starters-average-4th-oldest-nfl

 

one or two guys skew the result

 

 

you would build a team around a 31year old db? because thats what i was responding to. 

 

 my main problem is that we just arent very good. besides fletch, we have some players that may not be 'old', per se, but they arent young and in addition to that, they arent very good. bowen, cofield, wison, hall, merriwether, doughty, not to mention fletch, oviously- just on D. our whole O line outside of trent is both old and not good.  yes, they can play for a few more years, but they arent going to get better with age- they've peaked. 

 

if we were the #1 D in the league, age wouldnt be a question. but we aren't, we're bad.

[MrJL]

he'll be 30, not 31 next year.  That's good enough for a couple more years.  We have Amerson, and two possibilities in Chase Minnifield and Richard Crawford in addition to Hall.  Maybe Biggers comes back.

 

I let Wilson and Merriweather and Bowen go.  Hope THomas and Rambo are ready.  Maybe sign a stopgap.  Doughty might stick for experience and teams, but Gumbs  might beat him out.  

 

Keep Rak, Kerrigan,  get Riley back, keep Jackson if he goes try to re-sign Tapp.  Hope Robinson and Kehl can come back as backups, hope Jenkins and Compton develop.  That just leaves one spot.

 

DL you have Cofield, Jenkins, Baker, Nield on the DL.  You need to sign some guys and even some stopgaps might do.  I might give Merling and Ron Brace another chance next training camp as rotation guys.  We also have Worthington and Hamilton stashed

[grego]

he'll be 30, not 31 next year.  That's good enough for a couple more years.  We have Amerson, and two possibilities in Chase Minnifield and Richard Crawford.  

 

 

come on, JL. hes 30 now! 

 

still, my question is do you "build around" a 30 or 31 year old DB? not 'can he be part of your team'. 

 

when i think 'build around', i think really good and not old. i think thats what the author of the article was talking about. 

 

no way would i build around hall and orakpo. i dont think the most die hard redskins fan believes that. 

[No Excuses]

I really don't think our offense is in that bad of a shape. We have a great RB rotation, a solid TE, Pro Bowl LT, good QB. We simply need to add one good WR and two good O-lineman.

 

I have no idea what to think of the defense. Jim Haslett is a buffoon and Shanahan a bigger one for still keeping him employed. Even with player upgrades, I have no idea if that will translate onto the field. 

[steve09ru]

Fwiw, I believe it was collinsworth who said it earlier this game, said he wouldn't make any changes and with griffin developing his pocket passing this season, he expects and predicts a skins division title next year.

The only thing I am In disagreance with is don't change anything. Haslett and burns should bot only be shown the door but escorted out in full force

[Mad Mike]

I largely disagree.  I think we have above average talent throughout this roster even on defense.  If we didn't we couldn't have pulled off that 7 game winning streak.  We returned that defense plus added Orakpo and Merriweather.  At worst we should be a middling defense.  Instead, we are abysmal.  That's coaching.  That's teams beating us on the chess board and in preparation.  That's an inability to adjust in game or worse an inability to adjust to a team's adjustments.

 

If we look on offense, we have several of the most important pieces.  LT, RB, WR, TE, LT, and yes, QB are all there.  The o-line does need serious upgrading, but that's enough talent to win and even with the poor play of the line and Griffin this year, it's still piling up the stats.

 

The special teams... okay, I don't know what to say about the special teams, but there's got to be more to it than talent because I've never in my life seen a special teams this bad and I don't think the unit is worse talentwise than every single special teams group in the history of the NFL!

 

I promise you with better coaching and schemes critics would speak differently about our talent level.  That's not to say we couldn't use more talent, but the cupboard isn't bare.  The problem is multi-layered.  Talent and coaching... and psycholgy too.

 

Bwahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whooooo boy, you had me rollin. I mean seriously... You so funny!

 

The talent on this team is so paper thin it's sad, and some of the best talent we have has been found by Mike Shanahan, often on the cheap or in later rounds where we have failed to find talent in the past.  He made a mistake with McNugget, but who know he would turn out to be such an uncoachable prick. We have been getting by on the cheap with both lines and our secondary is vaporware. In the NFL scheme of things, we have a few stars including the Shanahan gem Morris but most of the team would be backups on a real contender.

 

The bottom line is that you can't ignore the damage done by the 100 million dollar Haynesworth mistake and utter joke of a team that Shanahan inherited. They gambled when they tried to get some of that money back and we got screwed on the punishment. Not only did we loose the cap space but the rest of the league got what we lost. And you think we came out of that with above average talent?

 

As they say on ESPN.... Common Man! 

[BoBoCTiberius]

You know who had a really horribly evaluated roster last year? The Kansas City Chiefs.

 

It's pretty easy to say the roster is garbage when it's playing like it is. The real truth is that the roster has talent but lacks chemistry and experience (which in my opinion is magnified by the mediocre at best coaching they are getting. Mike and Kyle and Xs and Os guys, not really player developers). We have an great young core of players in my opinion and as long as we keep filling it in and letting it develop, we'll be golden. 

[Brokenstriker]

Gents - its not an either or question ... the roster is weak, the coaching is weak and the GM is weak.  I'm not being sarcastic ... just facing reality.  Defenses have been systematically exposing the weakness of our O-Line ... Chester and Polumbus have both been in far too many D Linemen's highlights ... Montgomery gets pushed back ... 'Steiner has holes ... even Williams did the Ole dance recently.  Our receivers have trouble getting seperation with few exceptions, and (I'm assuming) more drops than average.  Our top TE receiver is on the sideline getting treatment too much, and the other is for whatever reason a waste lately.  Our TE Blocker isn't a bulldozer.  Our QB has lost his sync (why?  only he knows) and makes too many bad throws/decisions (I'm sure he'll get better over time).  Our O line/QB/receivers can't handle the blitz.  Our O-line can't consistently open holes between the tackles.  Our defense gets picked apart.  Hasn't shutdown a passing game in coverage or pass rush.  Hasn't shut down a running game (I think primarily because they can't risk deemphasizing trying to cover receivers).  Fletcher is slipping faster and faster down the backside of the hill.  Orakpo had a great game yesterday but is missing for much of the rest of the season, Kerrigan's game has been countered and he gets escorted wide and deep on his pass rush by vets and rookies alike now.  We don't have a NT in an D that has to have a dominating NT.  LB in general are slow except maybe for Riley.  Our D gets torched on a high percentage of blitzes.  Our DBs have what 1 or 2 interceptions that weren't due to bad throws.  Too many braindead penalties on both sides of the line.  Our punter is more likely to shank it than any other I can think in the NFL.  Our kicker can't/doesn't kick-off deep.  Our special teams would have to improve to simply suck.  Our coaches are either not ready for the game (how long before the Offense scored in the first half?) or unable to counter the oppositions adjustments.  We have the best RB in football and he's spending more and more time on the sideline.  The clock management sucks, the challenge decisions suck, there are guys on the roster who will never play either because they don't belong in the NFL (e.g., Grossman) or the coaches don't want them but keep them anyway (e.g., Davis).

 

Anyone who was surprised by the talent assessment from the "pros" hasn't been paying attention.

You know who had a really horribly evaluated roster last year? The Kansas City Chiefs.

 

It's pretty easy to say the roster is garbage when it's playing like it is. The real truth is that the roster has talent but lacks chemistry and experience (which in my opinion is magnified by the mediocre at best coaching they are getting. Mike and Kyle and Xs and Os guys, not really player developers). We have an great young core of players in my opinion and as long as we keep filling it in and letting it develop, we'll be golden. 

new coaching staff

[Brokenstriker]

DBs can last quite a bit longer than they used to these days.  The idea that our team is old is ludicrous.

 

http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/redskins-starters-average-4th-oldest-nfl

 

one or two guys skew the result

it is older than most ... and the injuries add up, slow them down etc. but really wanted to comment on building around a DB ... we had Champ Bailey a DB who was young and arguably the best in the league for years ... and our defense was not effective.  It'd be a mistake to build around a DB.  Not that much of a factor ... great to have them but it doesn't equate to a good defense.  Maybe if you have 3 or more great DBs you could build around them but I think even they would be picked apart without a strong front 7

[darrelgreenie]

You know who had a really horribly evaluated roster last year? The Kansas City Chiefs...

Checks your facts on this point KC sent 6 players to the pro-bowl last year

[garyclarkforhall]

You know who had a really horribly evaluated roster last year? The Kansas City Chiefs.

 

It's pretty easy to say the roster is garbage when it's playing like it is. The real truth is that the roster has talent but lacks chemistry and experience (which in my opinion is magnified by the mediocre at best coaching they are getting. Mike and Kyle and Xs and Os guys, not really player developers). We have an great young core of players in my opinion and as long as we keep filling it in and letting it develop, we'll be golden. 

Really about the Chiefs roster last year?  They had 6 Pro Bowlers... they replaced their QB and their coach with a system of dink and dunks that gave their already good defense a chance to compete...

[garyclarkforhall]

I hate Collinsworth, but I still think he's right... that this team wins the division next year...

 

Not only will we get the cap money back from Mara, but we'll have Fletcher, Davis, and Santana's money... and probably Josh Wilson's ...which is a pretty good chunk of change.

 

Upgrades at RT, S, and ILB at minimum... as well as a probably introduction of a new WR and hopefully a RG.  It would be nice to get a NT, but that may be tougher to find.

 

Between the cap money and an early 2nd and 3rd, this is very doable.

[justice98]

Seems like the things we basically all agree on.  

[veteranskinsfan]

You can't get too positive or too down about this team. 

We need some better players at certain positions for sure.

We also need chemistry like another poster said.

The mistakes this owner has made over the years compound

the development of the team for sure.   I am thinking about Deon

Sanders, Haynesworth, and many more poor salary dumps we had to make.

We have needed a sound General Manager with a vision that he could turn into a concrete plan

for so long-ever since we lost Bethard.  Bethard knew how to find starters and backups in other lower rounds.

Who is going to be making the key personnel decisions next year for us?  We do not know yet.

[Brokenstriker]

I hate Collinsworth, but I still think he's right... that this team wins the division next year...

 

Not only will we get the cap money back from Mara, but we'll have Fletcher, Davis, and Santana's money... and probably Josh Wilson's ...which is a pretty good chunk of change.

 

Upgrades at RT, S, and ILB at minimum... as well as a probably introduction of a new WR and hopefully a RG.  It would be nice to get a NT, but that may be tougher to find.

 

Between the cap money and an early 2nd and 3rd, this is very doable.

there's reasons you hate Collinsworth ... but remember he has to fill air time talking about the game even when one or both teams suck.  The only way this "team" wins the division next year is if the "franchise" successfully overhauls the "team" which they might have the resources to do ... it will just be a question of the smarts and ability to do it.  Must haves to come close ...

 

legitimate high quality starters who aren't here now at:

RT, RG, C/LG, #1WR (move Garcon to #2), #3WR, ILB, NT, #1CB (assuming Hall goes), FS, KR, PR, Punter, Kick-off Specialist or new Kicker, ST All-Pro Candidate

 

top shelf role players at:

possession/slot WR, deep threat WR, Pass Rush DT Specialist, Nickleback

 

and it would probably be wise to replace:

Merrifield (risk of Suspensions)

 

 

I think we can hold on to the #1 and #2 QBs, the RBs, the FB, Garcon, Reed, Paulsen, Williams, the DTs (including Cofield), the OLBs, Riley, Amerson

[PlayAction]

I really don't think our offense is in that bad of a shape. We have a great RB rotation, a solid TE, Pro Bowl LT, good QB. We simply need to add one good WR and two good O-lineman.

 

 

It doesn't seem in that bad a shape until you realize that there aren't any resources to devote to the offense because the defense is abysmal.  We need a really good WR so that the other WR bodies on the roster have to be covered by lesser DB or even LB talent.  I don't mean a "name" WR like Fitzgerald as that would be a replay of the Snyder fantasy football years.  I think the WR has to come from free agency since it takes too long to develop a rookie WR.   But, whom?

 

It's possible to get OL bodies in free agency but "good" ones are harder to acquire.  Hopefully, we don't have to look through the injured free agents again (Jamaal Brown).  Still, I don't see Shanahan using the second round pick on the OL if he values experience in zone blocking over raw talent.  It may be time to see whether one of the backups (Gettis, Hurt, Compton) are ready for starter duty.  If LeRib shows up again 60lbs overweight then it's time to walk away from the 3rd round pick. 

 

I agree with you that Reed will be a quality TE as long as he can stay healthy.  Unfortunately, Logan Paulson seems to have taken a step backward in his blocking and catching the ocassional pass.  I don't know why Niles Paul is on the roster.  He doesn't seem to be equal to the average backup TE on many teams.

 

So, potentially an expensive free agent WR, two expensive free agent OL with some low round draft picks allocated to the Offense if Gettis/Hurt/Compton move up and take a starter OlL position. 

 

BTW - here's the original article.  For some reason links and the quote function weren't working on my other computer.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/washington-redskins-roster-may-face-significant-overhaul-in-offseason/2013/11/29/ce837988-58a5-11e3-bdbf-097ab2a3dc2b_story.html?tid=pm_sports_pop

[abdcskins]

We are a far way off, and that's the sad truth.  We haven't built through the draft for the past decade.  We either trade away draft picks or draft horribly.  Our defense is total trash.  Our entire future hinges on a QB that may or may not pan out.  It's looking grim. 

[TimmySmith]

In my opinion there is nothing more bloated in value than an NFL first round pick.

You must be joking.

 

Griffin, Kerrigan, Williams, Orakpo are the last 4 the Skins selected.  What do they have in common?  Same is true for every team.  You build on 1st rounders.

[PorkSkins]

One thing I have never understood is the omission of UNC personnel on this team.  Outside of Ethan Albright  (He and I had this conversation), there seems to be little or no connection with North Carolina and D.C.  UNC has produced a plethora of quality defensive starters and not one is or has been on this team. Only Amerson seems to be the closest thing to Chapel Hill.  It's hard to fathom that we are in worse shape with younger players than we were four years ago with a bunch of older veterans.  The next rebuild make take years.  I'm not sure we have the right staff to build us for the long haul. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

You must be joking.

 

Griffin, Kerrigan, Williams, Orakpo are the last 4 the Skins selected.  What do they have in common?  Same is true for every team.  You build on 1st rounders.

 

Ideally yes, however some teams seem to have severe bad luck in the 1st round.  Chicago and Green Bay come to mind.  Green Bay's 1st rounders always seem to get hurt.  Chicago has a bad track record with their 1sts.

 

The Colts, another usually always successful team has had a bad track record with 1sts.  Basically the only very good player is Andrew Luck.  Castonzo is solid, but everyone else is either off the team, out of the league, or struggling.

 

Steelers are getting only decent players for their 1sts, which is part of why they're struggling (another reason would be restructuring contracts like it was monopoly money).

[ncr2h]

Riddick is still the same guy who scouted Adam Archuleta, Antwan Randle-El, and Brandon Lloyd (the 2006 version), then got fired after we blew our entire cap on those players with no results and did the same thing in Philly with Asamough, DRC, etc and then got fired there, right?

 

Our offense is loaded.  Absolutely loaded.  A legitimate threat at #1 WR.  The best TE in skins history (injury issues are a potential concern with him).  The best RB in skins history.  A young (no pun intended) pro bowl caliber FB.  A great left side of the OL.  A center who is very good.  A RG who sucks this year, and a RT who sucked last year but is turning in a pretty good year this year.

 

That's a very respectable unit.

 

The defense, I agree, is bad.  Orakpo and Kerrigan are pretty damn good, and Hall is having an excellent year, but other than that we don't really have much.  This unit needs some investment, for sure.

 

Special teams is a joke, but it's likely due to the new coach along with injuries (top 2 returners are out for the year - Crawford and Thompson).

 

The offense just looks bad when Griffin doesn't throw in rhythm.  That's the main problem.