Voice_of_Reason Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I really wish this was in the other thread so the same arguments aren't in 2 places. Hoping for a Mod Merge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 I really wish this was in the other thread so the same arguments aren't in 2 places. Hoping for a Mod Merge. The two threads really have almost nothing to do with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Well Hell now Rufus. How am I gona' go through his major role in both the penalty and flittering away what cap we did have when you put up such a great thread and usurp me? Downsizing a 4 week thread idea to maybe 3 not withstanding (glares); awesomely good post man. It will sadly fall on deaf ears from those too blind to see or just too stubborn in their defense of this organisation to admit (as has happened already)but a VERY pertinent OP/ thread nonetheless. Good job. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Well Hell now Rufus. How am I gona' go through his major role in both the penalty and flittering away what cap we did have when you put up such a great thread and usurp me? Downsizing a 4 week thread idea to maybe 3 not withstanding (glares); awesomely good post man. It will sadly fall on deaf ears from those too blind to see or just too stubborn in their defense of this organisation to admit; but awesomely good and VERY pertinent OP/ thread nonetheless. Hail. Sorry, man. I thought your series was going to be more on his history of failure in acquisitions and this would be good companion thread to it. Sorry if I stepped on your toes. Â Thanks for the kind words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Sorry, man. I thought your series was going to be more on his history of failure in acquisitions and this would be good companion thread to it. Sorry if I stepped on your toes. Thanks for the kind words. Meh, no need. I was just messing with ya'You've saved me a ton of extra work, are FAR more versed in the neuances of the cap than I; and this thread IS a great companion and stands alone come to that as a great one in itself. Good luck getting through to those that need it said the most. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diesel Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I'm not reading all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I really wish this was in the other thread so the same arguments aren't in 2 places. Hoping for a Mod Merge. Nah man. This is a 'stand alone' thread in its own right and serves as a great antidote to some common held misconceptions on the subject. Great timing too in the week we play that shower from New Jersey. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Meh, no need. I was just messing with ya' You've saved me a ton of extra work, are FAR more versed in the neuances of the cap than I; and this thread IS a great companion and stands alone come to that as a great one in itself. Good luck getting through to those that need it said the most. Hail. Yeah, I wasn't really worried you were going to go ballistic or anything. But I know you put some time into your threads and didn't want to step on them too much or cause you to not post them. I'm not reading all that. Thank you. Appreciate your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins3000 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 To me the most damning aspect of the cap penalty was the fact that the Skins got league approval for all roster moves in the uncapped year. How you going to approve a roster move then wait a whole year and one hour before free agency to punish said team with a $36 million penalty? All because the "spirit " of a non-existent cap was violated. Vinny and Dan took a huge **** with the Haynseworth contract. Mike and Bruce had no choice but to front load the contract in the uncapped year. They were going to lose money and cap space anyway; why not take advantage of the uncapped year to get ahead?  The problem that everyone does not seem to know is that the team was warned well before they pulled the move. According to the Drive with Cooley and Czabe, all teams were warned about not using the cap year for dumping salaries. Also, owners were mad at Snyder for driving up franchise tag for DT with that contract signed by Haynesworth according to what I heard from the Drive on Espn980. As they eluded, even if the team did not have this so called cap penalty, the team was going to be in cap hell because of the Haynesworth tragedy. So the problem was going to exist one way or another as this problem has existed with many other teams in cap hell that seem to either have a reasonable backup plan be it draft players and add more draft picks as possible because these players are way cheaper than a veteran. This is what bothers me is that now Shanahan is spinning this as a problem when he walked through the door day one and did not acknowledge this cap hell as a problem, why because he thought he could fix the problem. Shanahan knew this was going to be a problem and should had a plan in place besides trying to mock the owners because they in turn smacked the crap out of our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 The problem that everyone does not seem to know is that the team was warned well before they pulled the move.  All the answers you seek are in the cap penalty thread. Many who were just as upset as some of us when this happened have now somewhat changed their tune because the team is 3-8. Read the first few pages.  I don't think that Shanahan deserves no blame for the team's record in 2013. Surely, there are things that could have been done better, but the fact is the man has a proven track record. Yes, his record here has not been that great, but I believe that is mainly because he has had a number of things to contend with that were largely beyond his control. I would rather take my chances with Shanahan for another year because of the adversity, than hire a new coach and start over with a new philosophy and set us back even further.   Some now are like, yeah we had the cap penalty...and that sucks...but since we are 3-8 we will now diminish it's impact for our mission to change hearts and minds about the head coach.  and without trying to sound like an ass...this probably will come out this way anyhow. I still have yet to see anyone explain despite the 10 paragraph explanations of Shanahan's track record with drafts and free agent signings why they bothered if the salary cap penalty was not going to have a huge impact on our team. Just to send a symbolic message?  They did it to cripple our team. I DEFY anyone to name me somebody who is not Bellichick who could overcome a penalty of that magnitude and have their team in contention not one but BOTH seasons it was in effect.  I dare you to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 So is this what we're going to do until next september, start a new thread everyday about another reason why Shanahan should go? As much cap space as Shanny is about to have this offseason, we're going to see what they're really all about. And if it does work, it will be right on time with us getting our first round draft picks again after the 2014 season. Tired of blowing it up and still losing, I want to see what he does in year 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Somehow, I gotta believe V**** Cerrato put a bug in John Mara's ear to serve a cap penalty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Don't support the premise. Don't support the poster. Don't support the epic ****ing and whining about the Shanahan's. Let's see this thing through and if you can't hang then take 2 Pamprin and head off to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmuss1 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 What a crock of BS, there is no way you can explain away $36 Million in cap space, and again, like I stated in posts before, you are looking at the wrong spots. It's not the so called "stars" we are missing, although it would nice to have a couple more, it is the roster spots say 30 thru 53. There is NO talent any where in these valuable spots. Get a clue on how to build a football team. I'm guessing you have never played, so whether any of you like it or not, if you haven't played you will never understand. You just get pissed when the team is 3-8, and it HAS to be reason X, Y and Z. I get it, you have nothing to compare it to. Look what D Hall said in the paper the other day, he absolutely supports Shanny coming back. He is the type of player that would speak up if things were bad. The cap hurt this team......period.....stop writing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 The cap hurt this team......period.....stop writing about it.  I think nothing would make the NFL owners happier than the cap penalty ultimately costing Shanahan his job. The ULTIMATE payback for him DARING to cross "old money." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Shy of talking REALLLLLLLLLLLL slow and maybe drawing pretty pictures in different coloured crayon. I don't know how the OP could of put this in any more simple terms than so many either can't grasp, or are too darn pigheaded too.  And a totally fair and unbiased OP that just looks at the facts of all this. He was actually pretty restrained in his OP for me. I'd of brought up Shanahan's previous attempt to play the league and cap in Denver that cost the Bronco's picks. Or Allen's problems going against the grain and attempting to twist the rules in Tampa. But all he's done is gone through the hard facts without any set agenda as to why any reasonable, objective person would accept our own part in all this.  People NEVER cease to amaze in either blind stupidity or a dogmatic refusal to put any (totally justified) blame on their own.  I swear some of y'all think you work for the Redskins and have their honor to uphold at ALL costs.  Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Rufus, fantastic OP.  I appreciate the disclaimer at the beginning, too. It's starting to feel like early November in an election year in here  One point I would argue (and I think it's fair) is that if we had the money and didn't have the penalty, the likelihood of bringing in a player like Morgan would be less than 5% to me. I think Vincent Jackson and Garcon were the two targets we had in mind as welcome gifts for RG3. Unfortunately we could only afford one. Likewise with moves like Biggers instead of Talib, etc.  But everything else is well thought out and well written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Shy of talking REALLLLLLLLLLLL slow and maybe drawing pretty pictures in different coloured crayon. I don't know how the OP could of put this in any more simple terms than so many either can't grasp, or are too darn pigheaded too.  And a totally fair and unbiased OP that just looks at the facts of all this. He was actually pretty restrained in his OP for me. I'd of brought up Shanahan's previous attempt to play the league and cap in Denver that cost the Bronco's picks. Or Allen's problems going against the grain and attempting to twist the rules in Tampa. But all he's done is gone through the hard facts without any set agenda as to why any reasonable, objective person would accept our own part in all this.  People NEVER cease to amaze in either blind stupidity or a dogmatic refusal to put any (totally justified) blame on their own.  I swear some of y'all think you work for the Redskins and have their honor to uphold at ALL costs.  Hail. In the end, consider it a post for those willing to read and consider facts. Was hoping we'd see some more relevant debate coming from the other side, maybe we will eventually. Rufus, fantastic OP.  I appreciate the disclaimer at the beginning, too. It's starting to feel like early November in an election year in here  One point I would argue (and I think it's fair) is that if we had the money and didn't have the penalty, the likelihood of bringing in a player like Morgan would be less than 5% to me. I think Vincent Jackson and Garcon were the two targets we had in mind as welcome gifts for RG3. Unfortunately we could only afford one. Likewise with moves like Biggers instead of Talib, etc.  But everything else is well thought out and well written. Disagree, especially on Jackson. Keep in mind we not only signed Morgan but also chased Eddie Royal. Shanahan could have chosen to pursue Jackson instead of those two. He also had the option of dumping Moss if he wanted to make cap space to chase another FA.   Really appreciate the kind words from both of you (and some others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Bloody hell Fat Albert isn't even with the team anymore but he's still screwing up The Redskins. Signing him was the most idiotic move Snyder ever made (and that's saying something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenDavis Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 What a crock of BS, there is no way you can explain away $36 Million in cap space, and again, like I stated in posts before, you are looking at the wrong spots. It's not the so called "stars" we are missing, although it would nice to have a couple more, it is the roster spots say 30 thru 53. There is NO talent any where in these valuable spots. Get a clue on how to build a football team. I'm guessing you have never played, so whether any of you like it or not, if you haven't played you will never understand. You just get pissed when the team is 3-8, and it HAS to be reason X, Y and Z. I get it, you have nothing to compare it to. Look what D Hall said in the paper the other day, he absolutely supports Shanny coming back. He is the type of player that would speak up if things were bad. The cap hurt this team......period.....stop writing about it. He just explained the cap penalty away. Â Did you not read? Â Can you read? Â Don't bring the "have you ever played" BS on this board. Â No one on this board has played professionally and not you either so you can quit acting like you're in the HOF. Â No one on this team is playing with heart. Â We have no one stepping up to be a leader now that RGIII is struggling. Â Shanahan certainly isn't a leader. Â The OP just squashed the excuse that Shanahan deserves another year because of the cap penalty. Â I can't believe there are fans that can't see this. Â This team is not gonna fair any better next year if Shanahan comes back. Â The roster is too depleted for anyone to turn this train wreck around in one year. Â Do you extend Shanahan next year then? Like it or not it's time for a new coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins3000 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Rufus, fantastic OP.  I appreciate the disclaimer at the beginning, too. It's starting to feel like early November in an election year in here  One point I would argue (and I think it's fair) is that if we had the money and didn't have the penalty, the likelihood of bringing in a player like Morgan would be less than 5% to me. I think Vincent Jackson and Garcon were the two targets we had in mind as welcome gifts for RG3. Unfortunately we could only afford one. Likewise with moves like Biggers instead of Talib, etc.  But everything else is well thought out and well written. Talib was traded and was not a free agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 ......  The OP just squashed the excuse that Shanahan deserves another year because of the cap penalty.  I can't believe there are fans that can't see this.....  Those none so blind as those who will not see.  Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang2012 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 So is this what we're going to do until next september, start a new thread everyday about another reason why Shanahan should go? As much cap space as Shanny is about to have this offseason, we're going to see what they're really all about. And if it does work, it will be right on time with us getting our first round draft picks again after the 2014 season. Tired of blowing it up and still losing, I want to see what he does in year 5. I completely agree with you Renegade7. I'm sick and tired of starting all over and in my opinion one more season with added resources and a full offseason for RG3 will prove once and for all if we are headed in the right direction. However I wouldn't be against some assistant coach changes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Disagree, especially on Jackson. Keep in mind we not only signed Morgan but also chased Eddie Royal. Shanahan could have chosen to pursue Jackson instead of those two. He also had the option of dumping Moss if he wanted to make cap space to chase another FA.   Really appreciate the kind words from both of you (and some others)  The overall premiss of my point is irrefutable. If you need to buy groceries for 50 people, but you have a budget for 40... your going shopping for beenie weenies.  If you are going shopping for groceries for 50 people and you have money for 50... everyone gets two helpings of chicken parm.  Sure he could've spent that money differently... he wanted YAC guys and got the two most cost effective YAC guys. We could easily say the inverse if VJax came in and didn't perform. "Well, Mike could've gone for two guys instead of putting all of his eggs in one basket."  I didn't mind the approach, but I wouldn't have gone after Morgan. I could see why he didn't go after Royal first since we already had a slot guy here in Tana who only this season fell of production wise. Talib was traded and was not a free agent  He was free this year. We talked to him. NE re-upped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I do not have a clue what 'beenie weenies' are.  I shall not google. I do not want to know.  The image I have in my head is TOO hilarious to be spoilt by reality.  This thread DELIVERS!  Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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