Per Pft - Report: Bills Open To Trading Jairus Byrd

[Gymratfwp]

typical extremeskins... thinking we can give up a late round pick for one of the best players at his position

remember when people were thinking we could get harvin for a fourth round pick?

Brought it up in an earlier post...but...the bills aren't resigning him over the offseason, he's currently injured, he wants to be one of the highest paid SAF in the league (deservedly so), the gaining team inherits possibly contentious contract talks....if you are the Bills...you take a 4th round draft pick instead of nothing.

[Laron Burgundy]

  

Outside of your point on Fletcher, we have 10 of 11 starters from last year still on the 2013 squad. Don't negate the fact the beginning of last year this defense was on pace for an historically bad record as well, until the secondary tightened up after the bye week / middle of the season. I'd say with the addition of Amerson and a healthy Merriweather, we actually have more talent then last year; but just aren't showing it yet.

We don't know how much money Orakpo wants yet, this guy already says he wants to be paid the highest of his position. Your scenario with Bryd in the 2012 secondary would've made only so much of a difference because we still could not consistently get to the QB, it still would've been our eventually undoing. Just because Rob can start, doesn't mean he should, and it's because he can't consistenly help bring pressure the way Orakpo can. There was no manipulating stats I needed to show that, his sack production in his best year (4.5) is barely even half of what Orakpo has done in his worst (8.5).

I mean, seriously, no knock on Rob, but he's been here since 2008 and only has 5.5 sacks to his name. Orakpo has been here since 2009 and has 32.5 sacks. That production doesn't even compare, the dropoff is obvious. I would say if you don't believe that matters, give it another couple weeks for the secondary to calm down to see what a difference consistent QB pressure makes with a decent secondary.

Still manipulating stats! Jackson had half as many pass rushes as orakpo had on his worst year.

Point isn't that the d would be better with jackson, but that it wouldn't be noticeably worse. Worse in pressure, but the d gave up about the same yards per play with jackson as with orakpo. The addition of byrd should be a noticeable difference however.

[drowland]

He's better than anyone in the secondary on our team last year, this year, and next year... I raise the board's offering of a 4th rounder... to a 3rd rounder with a two-year extension on his contract.  We NEED him...

 

Byrd wants to be one of the highest paid safeties in the league.  He won't accept a 2-yr extenison just to play for the Redskins.  Any team that trades for him will have to lock him up with a long term deal or he'll test the open market in the offseason. 

[Gymratfwp]

Byrd wants to be one of the highest paid safeties in the league.  He won't accept a 2-yr extenison just to play for the Redskins.  Any team that trades for him will have to lock him up with a long term deal or he'll test the open market in the offseason. 

 

Definitely, even if we did trade for him - which I don't believe we will - we would have to get him signed to a long term deal which would enable us to get his cap hit low enough so that we wouldn't risk being over the cap this year....probably 4-5 year deal with a large amount guaranteed and up front.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

typical extremeskins... thinking we can give up a late round pick for one of the best players at his position

 

remember when people were thinking we could get harvin for a fourth round pick?

Seattle overpaid for him but I see your point. Having said that, Byrd is going to walk in the offseason so any pick they can get would be better than nothing.

 

Trade Freddy and a late rounder. Trade is contingent upon Byrd passing a physical and signing an extension. That will reduce his cap number to maybe something we can fit in without Davis. Either way, his contract doesn't make him the highest paid safety but makes him pretty well paid and in a better situation all around than Buffalo and contains a lot of incentives and games played requirements etc to protect us in case of lingering injuries. If this were to happen I think you have to then explore trading Rak or letting him walk in the offseason because I don't see how you can afford both.  

 

I doubt any of that would happen or he'd agree to such a contract but Mike and Bruce are doing their due diligence I'm sure.

 

If you make this trade you make it believing that your defense is better long term with arguably the best safety in the game and with the loss of Orakpo. You'd have a younger secondary with good depth and the backend well protected and would have to look to generate pass rush from Jackson, Jenkins and Kerrigan as your main OLBs. Plus maybe you can plug a MLB or OL/WR on the team in a trade with Rak or for the pick he generates if you don't let him walk.

[Hazel-Ra]

Only if he's cheap. In the next couple of years we are going to need cap room to keep our home grown standouts like Trent Williams and Ryan Kerrigan... guys who may not get a lot of ESPN camera time but are here and producing week in and week out.

[Destino]

Only if he's cheap. In the next couple of years we are going to need cap room to keep our home grown standouts like Trent Williams and Ryan Kerrigan... guys who may not get a lot of ESPN camera time but are here and producing week in and week out.

Young highly decorated players do not come cheap. You are right however that cap space is needed for Rak and Kerrigan, because they won't be cheap either. Byrd might be better than both of them but he's at a less important position. Williams is going to cost a fortune, he's likely a top 5 left tackle. Then after that RG3 is going to demand his weight in gold for his new contract.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Young highly decorated players do not come cheap. You are right however that cap space is needed for Rak and Kerrigan, because they won't be cheap either. Byrd might be better than both of them but he's at a less important position. Williams is going to cost a fortune, he's likely a top 5 left tackle. Then after that RG3 is going to demand his weight in gold for his new contract.

 

True but it can be done. the trick is that RG3 will have to develop to the point where he can consistently cover up flaws exceptionally well. The 00 era Colts had Manning, Freeny, Wayne, Harrison, Saturday, Mathis, Brackett, Sanders etc. They had a lot of really good and highly paid players. 

 

The rest of the team wasn't on the same level but they had just enough around Manning that he could obviously make up for what they didn't have. That and good drafting to keep young talent on the roster for when you inevitably have to let a star walk. 

 

There a lot of other examples too. We can be there too when the time comes to pay all of these guys. You never know how it will turn out either and a lot can change in that time. A couple years ago we might have thought Rak would be asking for $50mil but he doesn't seem like a $50mil player now. 

 

Also, if RG3 gets to that point we may not need to overpay for Trent. I love him but the top stud LTs in the game don't typically protect the top QBs in the game it seems. Who is Brees, Rodgers or Brady's LT? Manning in Indy? I am not saying they are bad players but you get my point. 

[Renegade7]

 

Still manipulating stats! Jackson had half as many pass rushes as orakpo had on his worst year.

Point isn't that the d would be better with jackson, but that it wouldn't be noticeably worse. Worse in pressure, but the d gave up about the same yards per play with jackson as with orakpo. The addition of byrd should be a noticeable difference however.

 

You are defying modern day football logic by saying pressure on the QB is not as important as the skillset in the secondary. Giants won two Super Bowls and basically shut down arguably the greatest offense in history in 2007 with a marginal secondary but devastating pass rush.

What I'm saying is it doesn't matter who we have back there if we can't get to the QB, we've all seen that before, happens every Sunday to somebody in this league.

You can stay stuck on Orakpo for Bryd if you want, but I'm not running a Hocus Pocus factory over here with the stats, bro. I don't agree with it, it doesn't make sense, and you haven't changed my position on that at all.

[Gymratfwp]

...I'm not running a Hocus Pocus factory...

 

Hocus Pocus Factory...a subsidiary of the Factory of Sadness.

[Hazel-Ra]

Young highly decorated players do not come cheap. You are right however that cap space is needed for Rak and Kerrigan, because they won't be cheap either. Byrd might be better than both of them but he's at a less important position. Williams is going to cost a fortune, he's likely a top 5 left tackle. Then after that RG3 is going to demand his weight in gold for his new contract.

 

My biggest hope in all this is that by the time Griffin's deal comes up that he's so consistently good, that a deal is quickly and quietly reached with no foot dragging by the front office.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Davis or Orakpo for Byrd? Sure, sign me up. But I don't see any reason to think Buffalo would do that.

 

As for picks, just no. Don't trade from the future to benefit the now if you're not a Super Bowl contender (and sorry, we're not).

[Drex]

Don't like the fact that he's currently injured.

 

Besides, since he's not under contract for next season, if the Redskins really want Byrd, they'll just wait to sign him as a free agent in 2014, when cap room will once again be available to the team.

[Gymratfwp]

My biggest hope in all this is that by the time Griffin's deal comes up that he's so consistently good, that a deal is quickly and quietly reached with no foot dragging by the front office.

 

If there is one thing that I have confidence in..it is Danny's willingness to pay for top quaity players. Grif will get paid when his rookie contract is up. No foot dragging. No belly aching. Grif will get the $$$$ that he deserves. No doubt.

[SJValleySkinz]

Davis or Orakpo for Byrd? Sure, sign me up. But I don't see any reason to think Buffalo would do that.

 

As for picks, just no. Don't trade from the future to benefit the now if you're not a Super Bowl contender (and sorry, we're not).

 

The Ravens are the best team in the league when it comes to veteran aquisition and if you look at some of their trades there's a bit of a pattern. They never get into a bidding war so they don't overpay, the players aren't stars but they ar plug-in starters that address specific needs. If all these conditions are met this could be a good trade.

[Rufus T Firefly]

The Ravens are the best team in the league when it comes to veteran aquisition and if you look at some of their trades there's a bit of a pattern. They never get into a bidding war so they don't overpay, the players aren't stars but they ar plug-in starters that address specific needs. If all these conditions are met this could be a good trade.

That's nice for them, but I'm not sure what it has to do with my post.

[Laron Burgundy]

   

You are defying modern day football logic by saying pressure on the QB is not as important as the skillset in the secondary. Giants won two Super Bowls and basically shut down arguably the greatest offense in history in 2007 with a marginal secondary but devastating pass rush.

What I'm saying is it doesn't matter who we have back there if we can't get to the QB, we've all seen that before, happens every Sunday to somebody in this league.

You can stay stuck on Orakpo for Bryd if you want, but I'm not running a Hocus Pocus factory over here with the stats, bro. I don't agree with it, it doesn't make sense, and you haven't changed my position on that at all.

Oh, I agree that pressure and pass defense is often a correlated stat, but where we are currently is, what, 3rd in sacks per game but 32nd in pass defense by a mile? I'm not at all saying pressure isn't as important as the secondary, I'm saying the loss from Orakpo to Jackson isn't as large as the gain from Rambo/Reed to Byrd. The extra coverage time with an improved coverage unit will allow a less talented pass rush to get to the qb. Anyone who knows anything about football realizes that coverage and pressure are closely related. Right now we have unbelievably bad coverage to the point that our pass rush is almost pointless.

Quick question, do you like the Tampa Bay defense more than ours? Their pass rushers are trash, but only an idiot would say our defense is better. Speaking of those super bowl pass rushing giants, how are they doing now that their coverage sucks? That's what I thought, unless you want to argue that Umenyiora was irreplaceable.

[chow184]

I think the redskins defense could use all the help they can get in the secondary. That said, I wouldn't trade away any current defensive players for Bird. I'd be open to trading Fred Davis or a WR, and possible draft picks 3rd round or later.

 

Bird is a fantastic safety when healthy, but right now he's damaged goods.

That, and Orakpo is on pace for a 12 sack season. I feel like he's only going to get better the longer he plays this year and stays healthy. I'd also say the premium for a quality pass rusher is higher than that of a Safety.

[Renegade7]

 

Oh, I agree that pressure and pass defense is often a correlated stat, but where we are currently is, what, 3rd in sacks per game but 32nd in pass defense by a mile? I'm not at all saying pressure isn't as important as the secondary, I'm saying the loss from Orakpo to Jackson isn't as large as the gain from Rambo/Reed to Byrd. The extra coverage time with an improved coverage unit will allow a less talented pass rush to get to the qb. Anyone who knows anything about football realizes that coverage and pressure are closely related. Right now we have unbelievably bad coverage to the point that our pass rush is almost pointless.

Quick question, do you like the Tampa Bay defense more than ours? Their pass rushers are trash, but only an idiot would say our defense is better. Speaking of those super bowl pass rushing giants, how are they doing now that their coverage sucks? That's what I thought, unless you want to argue that Umenyiora was irreplaceable.

 

I don't get what your saying about tampa bays pass rushers being trash when they only have 2 less sacks then we do. The Giants coverage has been sucked because they're talent was concentrated in the front seven, particularly the front four. Has been for years, they were 29th against the pass the last time they won the super bowl for crying out loud. They are just completely devoid of talent right now, how they did it, I have no idea.

And for the record, we aren't 32nd by a mile, we're 28th and climbing, enough of the hyperbole already. I personally feel whatever time you gain holding coverage with Byrd back there, you'll go over the 3 seconds because of lack of pressure not having Orakpo. Against good QBs, that's a disaster waiting to happen. I don't mind having Byrd, but not at the expense of Orakpo. I don't understand the logic of this arguement anymore because we could easily just wait until the offseason and have both of them without trading anything.

And I'm also going to ask you nicely to stop insinuating that I'm stupid or something. It's immature and starting to agitate me...

[Laron Burgundy]

  

I don't get what your saying about tampa bays pass rushers being trash when they only have 2 less sacks then we do. The Giants coverage has been sucked because they're talent was concentrated in the front seven, particularly the front four. Has been for years, they were 29th against the pass the last time they won the super bowl for crying out loud. They are just completely devoid of talent right now, how they did it, I have no idea.

And for the record, we aren't 32nd by a mile, we're 28th and climbing, enough of the hyperbole already. I personally feel whatever time you gain holding coverage with Byrd back there, you'll go over the 3 seconds because of lack of pressure not having Orakpo. Against good QBs, that's a disaster waiting to happen. I don't mind having Byrd, but not at the expense of Orakpo. I don't understand the logic of this arguement anymore because we could easily just wait until the offseason and have both of them without trading anything.

And I'm also going to ask you nicely to stop insinuating that I'm stupid or something. It's immature and starting to agitate me...

And that's the problem with stats. Yes, Tampa Bay is 2 sacks behind us, but look at their defensive line. Their linebackers have as many sacks as their defensive line, and we're talking about a 43. It's clear that the talent on that defense resides in the back 7. Meanwhile Carolina and Detroit have fewer sacks, but clearly much of their talent is on their defensive lines. Giants, meanwhile, have a lot of talent in the front 4 but have horrible linebackers and defensive backs and the result is 5 sacks in 5 games. Coverage and pressure are both important, and right now our coverage is failing to the point of making our pass rush pointless.

The point of getting Byrd now is to rescue this season. Your reaction is as if I'm saying replace Orakpo with Vernon Gholston. Rob Jackson might not be as good, that's true, but he isn't awful either. Our fs, meanwhile, IS awful. If we didn't have Kerrigan, then yes, Orakpo would be irreplaceable, but most defenses don't have two stud edge rushers.

We're 32nd in ypa, which is a more meaningful stat than ypg. 31st in opposing qb rating, but that's generous considering we just faced what was Oakland's soon-to-be 3rd string qb who got cut. 28th and rising is very optimistic. Next 4 weeks we have Romo sits to pee, Cutler, Peyton and Rivers. Otherwise known as 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 11th in qb rating. Our pass defense won't look better in the 2nd quarter of the season than they did in the 1st.

Of course, this all hinges on if Byrd will play, he hasn't been put on IR and his sitting out may be more contract related than actual injury. Plantar Fasciitis takes awhile to heal, but Mario Williams played with it his rookie season.

[Gurgeh]

Fred Davies for Byrd makes some sense, if Byrd can be healthy. We managed last season with one TE who could catch, now we have three and even Paul is showing signs of life in the position. Whether the Bills want Fred is another matter, as is how we'd be able to pay Byrd what he wants.

 

Byrd wouldn't rescue this season for us - for even a chance of that we'll need the 2012 version of RGIII - but he would be a huge upgrade to the secondary.

[Audible_Red40]

If any fans of a team know, it would be us, about the he said she said stuff, happens all the time, especially when it comes to trading for or signing a player, then BOOM, the deal is done.

 

But as per the Bills Blog, they are refuting the report, which probably means, he is on the block, and they could not receive what they were looking for in return for a soon to be UFA with injury concerns.  The fish just didn't bite when dangling him out there.

 

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2013/10/09/brandon-refutes-open-trade-talks-on-byrd/

 

 

Brandon refutes open trade talks on Byrd

Posted by Chris Brown on October 9, 2013 – 9:26 am

 

Bills S Jairus Byrd is expected to be in the lineup on Sunday against the Bengals. A recent report however, described the organization being open to talks about trading the Pro Bowl safety. Bills President and CEO Russ Brandon refuted that report.

 

ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported earlier this week that the Bills are open to trading Jairus Byrd after being unwilling to do so earlier this season. The NFL trade deadline is Oct. 29th.

 

When asked about the report in his weekly appearance on Bills flagship station WGR Sportsradio 550 Wednesday morning, Bills President and CEO Russ Brandon refuted the report and said the organization’s position has not changed.

 

“I don’t know where these reports come from,” said Brandon. “It’s no different than what we talked about before. Our focus is getting JB back on the field and hopefully that will be this week. We are not actively seeking a deal. It’s not a topic of conversation in our building.”

 

When asked if moving Byrd would be ruled out if propositioned by another team Brandon answered generally.

 

“It’s the same thing I’ve always said, when someone calls us we’ll pick up the phone and answer it relative to any subject relative to our peers in the league,” said Brandon. ”So I wouldn’t rule out picking up the phone.”

 

[Gymratfwp]

If any fans of a team know, it would be us, about the he said she said stuff, happens all the time, especially when it comes to trading for or signing a player, then BOOM, the deal is done.

But as per the Bills Blog, they are refuting the report, which probably means, he is on the block, and they could not receive what they were looking for in return for a soon to be UFA with injury concerns. The fish just didn't bite when dangling him out there.

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2013/10/09/brandon-refutes-open-trade-talks-on-byrd/

Translation: We wanted more than a 3rd rounder - which we would likely get as compensatory pick with him leaving anyways - but nobody wanted to pony up the draft picks. We said screw it, we'll roll with JB the rest of this season, and keep our fingers crossed for something to develop.

[Renegade7]

 

And that's the problem with stats. Yes, Tampa Bay is 2 sacks behind us, but look at their defensive line. Their linebackers have as many sacks as their defensive line, and we're talking about a 43. It's clear that the talent on that defense resides in the back 7. Meanwhile Carolina and Detroit have fewer sacks, but clearly much of their talent is on their defensive lines. Giants, meanwhile, have a lot of talent in the front 4 but have horrible linebackers and defensive backs and the result is 5 sacks in 5 games. Coverage and pressure are both important, and right now our coverage is failing to the point of making our pass rush pointless.

The point of getting Byrd now is to rescue this season. Your reaction is as if I'm saying replace Orakpo with Vernon Gholston. Rob Jackson might not be as good, that's true, but he isn't awful either. Our fs, meanwhile, IS awful. If we didn't have Kerrigan, then yes, Orakpo would be irreplaceable, but most defenses don't have two stud edge rushers.

We're 32nd in ypa, which is a more meaningful stat than ypg. 31st in opposing qb rating, but that's generous considering we just faced what was Oakland's soon-to-be 3rd string qb who got cut. 28th and rising is very optimistic. Next 4 weeks we have Romo sits to pee, Cutler, Peyton and Rivers. Otherwise known as 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 11th in qb rating. Our pass defense won't look better in the 2nd quarter of the season than they did in the 1st.

Of course, this all hinges on if Byrd will play, he hasn't been put on IR and his sitting out may be more contract related than actual injury. Plantar Fasciitis takes awhile to heal, but Mario Williams played with it his rookie season.

 

Our defense made him look worse then he actually was because of our improved coverage, especially communcation-wise. I'll give you that stat on ypa vs ypg, but the notion that the season is over unless we trade for a FS, I can't co-sign to that. Again, this is basically the same team as last year, and even starting horribly with some of the same secondary issues, they were able to figure it out as the season went along. Overall as a linebacker, Jackson is decent.

But you cannot ignore the drop in production pressure and sack numbers when he's in the vs Orakpo. And all the coverage in the world can't stop Romo sits to pee, Manning, Culter, or Rivers. You have to hit QBs like that, throw off their rhythm, and force them to make throws they shouldn't make. Even the best secondary players can only keep up their coverage for so long, that's why giving up orakpo for this guy isn't worth it.

You can keep that opinion on trading orakpo for him if you want, but its not in the best intrests of the franchise to trade for the guy when he's about to be a free agent this offseaons. That doesn't make sense, we aren't that desperate.

[Laron Burgundy]

  

Our defense made him look worse then he actually was because of our improved coverage, especially communcation-wise. I'll give you that stat on ypa vs ypg, but the notion that the season is over unless we trade for a FS, I can't co-sign to that. Again, this is basically the same team as last year, and even starting horribly with some of the same secondary issues, they were able to figure it out as the season went along. Overall as a linebacker, Jackson is decent.

But you cannot ignore the drop in production pressure and sack numbers when he's in the vs Orakpo. And all the coverage in the world can't stop Romo sits to pee, Manning, Culter, or Rivers. You have to hit QBs like that, throw off their rhythm, and force them to make throws they shouldn't make. Even the best secondary players can only keep up their coverage for so long, that's why giving up orakpo for this guy isn't worth it.

You can keep that opinion on trading orakpo for him if you want, but its not in the best intrests of the franchise to trade for the guy when he's about to be a free agent this offseaons. That doesn't make sense, we aren't that desperate.

That drop in pass rush production last year was a combination of losing rak AND getting rid of our two safeties from 2011. This year was inflated by the raiders game so far, which accounts for nearly half our sacks. We'll have to reassess after a few more games.

With drafting Jenkins, I don't know if rak is really in our longterm plans. Late round pick, true, but was previously a projected 1st rounder before injury. Because of that, why not get something for nothing? Trading rak for byrd gives us an early start to negotiating a longterm contract instead of competing with other teams in fa.

I just don't see this d falling apart without rak. They're already terrible, why keep with the status quo?