Per Pft - Report: Bills Open To Trading Jairus Byrd

[Renegade7]

 

That drop in pass rush production last year was a combination of losing rak AND getting rid of our two safeties from 2011. This year was inflated by the raiders game so far, which accounts for nearly half our sacks. We'll have to reassess after a few more games.

With drafting Jenkins, I don't know if rak is really in our longterm plans. Late round pick, true, but was previously a projected 1st rounder before injury. Because of that, why not get something for nothing? Trading rak for byrd gives us an early start to negotiating a longterm contract instead of competing with other teams in fa.

I just don't see this d falling apart without rak. They're already terrible, why keep with the status quo?

 

I don't know about the safety thing, man. After 2011 we got rid of Atogwe because he was garbage, too. Laron only played 8 games, as well, so the whole revolving door at safety is nothing new considering the last couple years.

I like this Jenkins guy as well, but he hasn't shown me anything yet to suggest he can step in and help alleviate the loss of production from trading Orakpo. That's really what it boils down to even with Jackson starting: loss of production in the pressure and sack department. I, too, agree we need more time to see what comes of this defense and Orakpo, its too early to give up on this.

But here's another thing about the Byrd trade; there's no way I'm trading them one of our best defensive players midseason without this guy signing an extension around the same time he's taking the physical. The last thing we need is this guy playing us with this whole "I don't want to get reinjured" crap so he can get paid by somebody else; leaving us without him or Orakpo. We don't have the money to extend him now, that's risk we're taking trading for him now instead of just waiting to see if he really wants to be here.

He wants to be the highest paid safety in the NFL. We couldn't give that to him right now even if we wanted to...

[Koolblue13]

A player of this caliber allows our corners to play more bump and aggressive cover schemes and not 15 yards off tge receiver to protect our back field. Byrd changes everything for us.

no, we are not trading Orakpo either. 1 he is great for us and a key to our defense and 2, the Bills already have plenty of high paid LBs, so it shouldn't have been brought up, let alone still be discussed.

[Laron Burgundy]

A player of this caliber allows our corners to play more bump and aggressive cover schemes and not 15 yards off tge receiver to protect our back field. Byrd changes everything for us.

no, we are not trading Orakpo either. 1 he is great for us and a key to our defense and 2, the Bills already have plenty of high paid LBs, so it shouldn't have been brought up, let alone still be discussed.

First, bills run more 43 than 34. Second, the only high paid lb/de they have is mario. He's a huge contract himself, but lawson/hughes both have pretty small contracts. The reason they signed hughes was to have someone across from Mario, but he's a pass rush specialist only. There is room for orakpo on that d, easily.

[Laron Burgundy]

  

I don't know about the safety thing, man. After 2011 we got rid of Atogwe because he was garbage, too. Laron only played 8 games, as well, so the whole revolving door at safety is nothing new considering the last couple years.

I like this Jenkins guy as well, but he hasn't shown me anything yet to suggest he can step in and help alleviate the loss of production from trading Orakpo. That's really what it boils down to even with Jackson starting: loss of production in the pressure and sack department. I, too, agree we need more time to see what comes of this defense and Orakpo, its too early to give up on this.

But here's another thing about the Byrd trade; there's no way I'm trading them one of our best defensive players midseason without this guy signing an extension around the same time he's taking the physical. The last thing we need is this guy playing us with this whole "I don't want to get reinjured" crap so he can get paid by somebody else; leaving us without him or Orakpo. We don't have the money to extend him now, that's risk we're taking trading for him now instead of just waiting to see if he really wants to be here.

He wants to be the highest paid safety in the NFL. We couldn't give that to him right now even if we wanted to...

Atogwe was better than what we've seen since. I don't know why you wouldn't want to shake things up, it would be one thing if our defense looked ok out there, but you're talking about the worst d in the nfl.

I look at it like this:

2011 orakpo and ok safeties: mediocre d

2012 no orakpo and bad safeties: bad d

2013 orakpo and bad safeties: bad d

Why not try no orakpo and good safeties and see where that gets us? Whether you like the higher pressure stats or not, you have to admit that our pass d isn't better than it was last year! We're on pace for 13 fewer ints. We give up almost 2 yards more per pass! Now I know it's likely that it won't stay as bad, but we'd have to average 6.8 ypa the rest of the way to come close to last year's number. Comparatively, matt flynn put up 7.1 ypa on us.

And to get cap space is why you trade orakpo. Frees up space to sign byrd to a deal, so we could very well ink him longterm in that trade.

You keep saying it doesn't make sense, but what really doesn't make sense is sticking with our current personnel. It clearly isn't working.

[Koolblue13]

First, bills run more 43 than 34. Second, the only high paid lb/de they have is mario. He's a huge contract himself, but lawson/hughes both have pretty small contracts. The reason they signed hughes was to have someone across from Mario, but he's a pass rush specialist only. There is room for orakpo on that d, easily.

what does the alignment of the front 7 have to do with the play of the secondary?

So they already signed a pass rush specialist at Orakpos postion and you need me to explain why they don't need another pass rush specialist at that position?

Is that right?

[Renegade7]

 

Atogwe was better than what we've seen since. I don't know why you wouldn't want to shake things up, it would be one thing if our defense looked ok out there, but you're talking about the worst d in the nfl.

I look at it like this:

2011 orakpo and ok safeties: mediocre d

2012 no orakpo and bad safeties: bad d

2013 orakpo and bad safeties: bad d

Why not try no orakpo and good safeties and see where that gets us? Whether you like the higher pressure stats or not, you have to admit that our pass d isn't better than it was last year! We're on pace for 13 fewer ints. We give up almost 2 yards more per pass! Now I know it's likely that it won't stay as bad, but we'd have to average 6.8 ypa the rest of the way to come close to last year's number. Comparatively, matt flynn put up 7.1 ypa on us.

And to get cap space is why you trade orakpo. Frees up space to sign byrd to a deal, so we could very well ink him longterm in that trade.

You keep saying it doesn't make sense, but what really doesn't make sense is sticking with our current personnel. It clearly isn't working.

 

I've given you multiple different reason why we shouldn't do this right now. We got rid of Atogwe after one season because he was missing games, only started 8 games, and overpaid for his impotent level of play and production. I'm tired of saying this defense was in the same position last year and turned it around, we've only played 4 f'n games, man.

And you need to check you stats on clearing up cap space, because I checked a couple different places and showed the most we'll save from getting rid of Orakpo now is about $1.5 million. Byrd is franchised, so he's about a $7 million cap hit. We don't have the space for it right now, let it go.

[WinSkinsWin83]

Bills would take most of Byrd's contract this year.

[Laron Burgundy]

what does the alignment of the front 7 have to do with the play of the secondary?

So they already signed a pass rush specialist at Orakpos postion and you need me to explain why they don't need another pass rush specialist at that position?

Is that right?

The alignment of the front 7 has to do with your "many highly paid lb" comment. Not only do you not know what alignment the bills run (newsflash, bills have one of the cheapest linebacking corps in the league) you also don't understand the concept of "many." It implies more than one. Even assuming you count Mario as a linebacker, they don't have "many" highly paid linebackers.

Apparently you need me to explain what a pass rush specialist is. Orakpo is an every down starter, he doesn't just play in 3rd and longs. A pass rush specialist is a player who doesn't see the field except in likely passing situations. Understand the concept now? It's not difficult to understand why the bills would want an every down starter across from Mario...

[WinSkinsWin83]

Bills don't need Orakpo either. Lawson gives you a pass rush and he's good in coverage. I don't believe they would want him. Would probably want Fred and 4th. I would be reluctant to give them the 4th though. This draft is deep if these QBs come out. We could see 8 QBs in the 1st round. And probably 8 more in the 2nd and 3rd round. We need a lot on Defense and 4th could net us a Denzel Perryman, Andrew Jackson, Christian Jones ILB.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

He's finally active again today against the Bengals. 

 

Hail. 

[Laron Burgundy]

  

I've given you multiple different reason why we shouldn't do this right now. We got rid of Atogwe after one season because he was missing games, only started 8 games, and overpaid for his impotent level of play and production. I'm tired of saying this defense was in the same position last year and turned it around, we've only played 4 f'n games, man.

And you need to check you stats on clearing up cap space, because I checked a couple different places and showed the most we'll save from getting rid of Orakpo now is about $1.5 million. Byrd is franchised, so he's about a $7 million cap hit. We don't have the space for it right now, let it go.

 

This defense turned it around to, what, 28th place?  Are you seriously saying that's what you're looking forward to?  You act like our defense is worth keeping together.  You've given plenty of reasons, but most have been silly.  Orakpo has more career sacks than Jackson (self explanatory why that is silly, but he also has more career sacks than JJ Watt, clearly he's so much better)!  He has twice as many sacks in his worst season (conveniently ignoring that he did it in twice as many pass rushes)!  Pass rush trumps everything (despite our defense being much worse even though we're getting to the qb)!  And now there's one more silly reason.

 

You're right that I was wrong on the cap math, though we'd actually save 2.8 mil on Orakpo (we save his base salary by cutting him, not sure if the games played would count against our cap, in which case we'd save 2.1 mil).  Extend Trent Williams, cut/renegotiate London Fletcher, extend/cut Josh Morgan, etc and boom you find the extra 2.5-3.2 mil of wiggle room easily.  It's not like it's unheard of to squeeze out that room and a lot of our unproductive players can be easily cut.

 

Maybe you're right that this defense will improve as the year goes on, I know I hope it does, but it's been nothing short of pathetic so far.  It would be one thing if it looked better than last year's d, but when you regain an "elite" player and the defense looks just as bad or worse than it did with his backup, I'm not so sure if he really makes that much of a difference.  Meanwhile I'm betting an elite safety would make a noticeable difference on our defense.

[36HAMMER]

it's worth a talk, and then if an agreement can be reached then get him here for either Dr. Andrews or some specialist and get him thoroughly checked out. And if he checks out bring him in. only problem is that safety is a definite need but the oline is getting worse by the game and we have bigger, stronger dt's coming up in the Bears and others and Licht, and Mont can't handle them . Those two have been a revolving door the last couple of games and only getting worse. Check with the Browns and see if Mack is available (probably not ) or the Titans and ask about Swenke. A capable guard to replace Licht is another question. We have definite needs and nothing on the roster with which to fix or fulfill them at either the safety or oline positions. This is what happens when you have a bad cap problem and a front office that keeps trying to make an oline with late round draft picks or undrafted pick ups.  once in a while you can pick up a player for a position from the late rounds and fa's but not almost the whole line. wouldn't hurt my feeling to use the first couple of picks to get our oline  fixed.